Author Topic: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?  (Read 3862 times)

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Offline 7th

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Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« on: January 14, 2017, 01:45:08 PM »
A very disturbing trend in partisan politics has been emerging where the goal is not to engage in discussion but to silence opposing views.  Now we are entering silence or violence situations:

http://www.breitbart.com/milo/2017/01/13/reports-leftists-pull-hammers-milo-uc-davis-event-smash-windows/

Milo is a gay man for crying out loud!  Since when do gay people get silenced in Davis CA?  Since when should anyone be silenced in the USA? 

Can anyone offer a justification for the stifling of free speech in the USA, especially on college campuses?  Colleges are where these discussions should be happening!  Why are young adults showing up to a Milo event with hammers?       
"Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2017, 02:10:23 PM »
Opposing views are also free speech, as are protests.  Also The co-speaker was the lovely Shkreli.  No injuries and no property damage.  Not sure why you seem to think this type of thing is new on either political side.  Not only is it not new, it is very tame to tons of other incidents.
Plus Brietbart  :\
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2017, 03:20:11 PM »
Colleges are really bad with this stuff now.  Young college students now don't want discussion; they want to live in their echo chamber and shout down anyone with opposing viewpoints.

Offline 7th

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2017, 03:34:29 PM »
Not sure why you seem to think this type of thing is new on either political side.

Free speech being opposed on college campuses is a relatively new phenomenon.  Gay speakers being "protested" in one of the gayest cities in America is also new.  This wasn't really protest, this was disruption which is what the left is openly practicing now and it is not protected as free speech.  Why are they doing this?  Doesn't the left resorting to disruption basically disqualify the conversation entirely and hand the ethical baton to the right?  Milo did nothing wrong, says nothing wrong, and he's a great example of why many progressive assumptions and assertions are horseshit.  Do you want to live in a nation where the left leaners are the bad guys openly doing bad things to disrupt free speech because they don't like what is being said?  Neither side of the endless argument should behave this way.

If Brietbart doesn't meet your standards for news, CNN are reporting on it too: http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/14/us/milo-yiannopoulos-uc-davis-speech-canceled/index.html       
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2017, 04:20:25 PM »
I didn't see anything in that article about preventing anyone's free speech.  And it was a protest. Nothing new or unique.  Turning it into some huge meaningful commentary about ethical batons of political parties is just hyperbole.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 04:28:27 PM by eric42434224 »
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Offline 7th

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2017, 04:40:09 PM »
I didn't see anything in that article about preventing anyone's free speech.

How about the guy in the video who said "we came here to kick these bastards out, mission accomplished!" or something to that effect.  They *shut down* the event through the threat of violence!!  Protests don't do that, they simply protest.  You get the difference right?

But, and this is in line with my original question, why do you feel compelled to defend or minimize the situation?  Instead of recognizing that what they did was fundamentally wrong, you've instead minimized the significance of a group bullying a college to shut down an event through the threat of violence.  I am not being snarky here, I really want to know what emotion or reasoning or combination thereof leads to the view that this behavior is normal and acceptable in the USA.  Why does the left feel it necessary to silence opposing views?  My answer?: I personally believe that it is because they know their values and beliefs are indefensible by reason.  Either I am wrong or we must simply conceded that the modern progressive movement has abandoned the values of liberty and equality for fascism (which is what these "protestors" were practicing). 
"Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin

Offline Adami

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2017, 04:48:06 PM »
I read a study some months ago looking at whether or not right wing people or left wing people (at least in America) are more prone to political intolerance (which would include your urge to silence opposing views, as well as not allow them to voice their opposing opinions).


Turns out both sides are equally prone to it. So that means it's just a human nature thing. Nothing special about the left or the right.

Why do we do it? Most likely the inability to tolerate distress to certain degrees.
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2017, 05:03:57 PM »
What about what?  They didnt want them speaking on their campus, protested, and got the event cancelled.  No injuries or violence.  Happened countless times before, and will happen again.  No one lost their right to free speech here.

Also, I am not minimizing or defending anything that happened....just pointing out the hyperbole.  Exaggerating this to some new phenomenon that is done by the "left" is what I am pointing out.  What I am minimizing is statements that use a report with sketchy details to conclude with the generalization that the "modern progressive movement has abandoned the values of liberty and equality for facism "

Seriously?
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Offline 7th

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2017, 05:09:04 PM »
I read a study some months ago looking at whether or not right wing people or left wing people (at least in America) are more prone to political intolerance (which would include your urge to silence opposing views, as well as not allow them to voice their opposing opinions).


Turns out both sides are equally prone to it. So that means it's just a human nature thing. Nothing special about the left or the right.

Why do we do it? Most likely the inability to tolerate distress to certain degrees.

Sure and I'd ask the same question if a bunch of KKK guys were shutting down Al Sharpton speeches.  You make a good point about the inability to tolerate distress.  I guess the party of "tolerance" has simply had enough. :-)

I personally don't have the desire to shut people up.  I love listening to other's views no matter how different from mine they might be.  When I see people do stuff like the Davis shutdown I actually feel sorry for them.  They are so misguided, so willfully ignorant, that I actually feel sorry for them.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2017, 05:12:08 PM »
I mean, I feel there's a decent discussion somewhere buried underneath your anti-left rants and agenda.

If you feel like dropping the constant insults and digs against leftists/progressives/liberals, whatever, we might be able to discuss what could be an interesting topic.

Edit: Also, comparing protesters you don't like to the KKK really doesn't help your points either. And this happened before the board got shut down, your points being overlooked by all of your hyperbole and anti-liberal agenda. Just discuss the points.

I'll check back in a bit to see if that happens, but I'll leave you guys with this thought.


Do you think the way we have it now, where one party always has much more power than the other, that this gives way for the less powerful people to feel the need to be more extreme in their resistance or views? If so, would assuring a coalition of both (or more) parties at all times help alleviate that, or is it better to make sure two people (Prez and Vice) are of the same party and the same agenda/values?
« Last Edit: January 14, 2017, 05:17:46 PM by Adami »
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Offline 7th

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2017, 05:30:06 PM »
What about what?  They didnt want them speaking on their campus, protested, and got the event cancelled.  No injuries or violence.  Happened countless times before, and will happen again.  No one lost their right to free speech here.

Also, I am not minimizing or defending anything that happened....just pointing out the hyperbole.  Exaggerating this to some new phenomenon that is done by the "left" is what I am pointing out.  What I am minimizing is statements that use a report with sketchy details to conclude with the generalization that the "modern progressive movement has abandoned the values of liberty and equality for facism "

Seriously?

Head meet sand.  No hyperbole here man, the "protestors" showed up in masks with weapons and started tearing shit apart to *disrupt* a speaking event.  When put on camera there was no "peaceful protest" talk, it was "we came here to shut them down" talk.  If you can't see that, well, fine, but I can see it.  Also, many reports of leftist organizations calling for *disruption* now instead of protesting.  I called it partisan because I've never seen right wing groups do this sort of thing.  The inauguration day will probably be full of this costly, wasteful, and pointless shit.  If you are cool with it, fine, I am not.  BTW, my statement about fascism was not a generalization at all.  It's pretty clear that modern progressivism has morphed into something weird that condones fascist behavior like silencing political speech.  Even Shkreli commented on it in the video - "progressivism is about *having* the conversation."

"Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin

Offline eric42434224

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2017, 06:26:28 PM »
I mean, I feel there's a decent discussion somewhere buried underneath your anti-left rants and agenda.

If you feel like dropping the constant insults and digs against leftists/progressives/liberals, whatever, we might be able to discuss what could be an interesting topic.

Edit: Also, comparing protesters you don't like to the KKK really doesn't help your points either. And this happened before the board got shut down, your points being overlooked by all of your hyperbole and anti-liberal agenda. Just discuss the points.

I'll check back in a bit to see if that happens, but I'll leave you guys with this thought.


Yeah this pretty much sums up my position with 7th as well.
Well said.
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Offline orcus116

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2017, 10:06:27 AM »
Colleges are really bad with this stuff now.  Young college students now don't want discussion; they want to live in their echo chamber and shout down anyone with opposing viewpoints.

I know it's not all colleges but it does seem that some reputable (not all) institutions of learning and development are abandoning their credibility by essentially bowing down to their, typically, mentally and emotionally under developed students. I'm guessing it has a lot to do with the students funding the universities by attending them so why rock that boat but if I was a parent I'd be really skeptical sending my child to a place that promotes and feeds the types of incredibly toxic behavior that is becoming somewhat of the norm in certain circles.

Here is a really long but very, very good interview of Jordan Peterson by Joe Rogan. For anyone that doesn't know who Peterson is he's a professor at the University of Toronto who is one of the more articulate liberal voices when it comes to combating the types of viewpoints of the "equality for all but only the way I personally define equality" mindset. He's been outspoken about not using gender pronouns and as a result there are several videos of individuals approaching him and attempting to bait him into arguments.

The video touches on the suppression of viewpoints people don't want to hear a few times and the discussion is very well put together.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04wyGK6k6HE

Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2017, 11:45:03 AM »
Thanks for sharing, Orcus. I found that video really interesting.
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Offline orcus116

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2017, 06:43:35 PM »
You're welcome. I typically don't watch things on Youtube that are that long but his points are just fascinating to listen to.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2017, 09:27:46 PM »
More of the same. I swear I'd never heard of this Milo guy till a couple months ago.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-milo-yiannopoulos-berkeley-20170201-story.html

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Offline Progmetty

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #16 on: February 01, 2017, 09:33:22 PM »
I know him from his feud with the African American ghost busters actress, at first I was automatically on his side since I hate the movie but then I found he was sending waves of his twitter followers with the lipstick frog to throw racial insults at her and realized he was a douche.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #17 on: February 01, 2017, 09:36:47 PM »
Who's the more douchey, the douche or the douches who follow him?


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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #18 on: February 01, 2017, 09:40:12 PM »
More of the same. I swear I'd never heard of this Milo guy till a couple months ago.

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-milo-yiannopoulos-berkeley-20170201-story.html

Yeah... don't start up the Berkeley people, you're talking about protesters who camped out in fucking trees for three years to prevent a football stadium upgrade. Don't even want to imagine how far off the rails they'll go for this one.


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Offline Genowyn

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2017, 10:55:37 AM »
So a few thoughts on this recent riot...

One, I've heard the actual violence and property is being perpetrated by an anarchist group called the Black Bloc who like to show up to any protests in the area and start shit.

Second, whether that's true or not, these sort of protests just seem so counterproductive. All protesting Milo does is feed into his narratives about the left being intolerant of his ideas, and sell more copies of his book to people who agree with him anyway. You know what would really be a kick in the dick to Milo? Ignoring him. Imagine how sad he would be if there were not only no protests, but hardly anyone showed up to his speech. I can't imagine there are that many of his fans at a place like Berkeley.

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Offline pogoowner

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2017, 11:38:33 AM »
I don't think it would be that difficult to organize a group of people to buy the vast majority of the tickets to his event and either not show up or stage a walkout (assuming it's a ticketed event).

Offline cramx3

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2017, 03:39:56 PM »
I don't think it would be that difficult to organize a group of people to buy the vast majority of the tickets to his event and either not show up or stage a walkout (assuming it's a ticketed event).

That's a much cooler and better idea for a protest.  Sort of put your money where your mouth is in a way.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #22 on: February 02, 2017, 03:47:40 PM »
Or, for the Berkeley protesters, their parents' money. Har.

And yes Anarchists and "professional" protesters will often show up at these events.
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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #23 on: February 02, 2017, 04:34:36 PM »
Or, for the Berkeley protesters, their parents' money. Har.

And yes Anarchists and "professional" protesters will often show up at these events.

Yes, the pros show up at every significant one in the Bay area. Even in the politically slow times they can be seen on certain street corners in Berkeley spouting some stupid message or another over microphones while the mass of students walk by.

As to the students on their parent's money, they're in a room studying, the vast majority don't give a shit about political stuff, they're too busy trying not to get swallowed by the mass that is Berkeley. I would gather somewhere around 35k students, maybe 500 were at the protest last night (the other thousand being pros and the mass of homeless and transients that live in the four block radius around that area).
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Offline pogoowner

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #24 on: February 02, 2017, 07:16:38 PM »
I don't think it would be that difficult to organize a group of people to buy the vast majority of the tickets to his event and either not show up or stage a walkout (assuming it's a ticketed event).

That's a much cooler and better idea for a protest.  Sort of put your money where your mouth is in a way.
Although given Milo's history of using his platform to out trans and undocumented students, ruining their lives, I'm not exactly bothered by the fact that he was unable to speak.

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #25 on: February 02, 2017, 08:55:27 PM »
Milo dox'ed his own supporters at the event in Boulder. The CU College Republicans sent out an email to all attendees - and didn't BCC: them. They were all visible to everyone involved. Someone then sent out a threatening email to the list (I have no idea if it was a false flag or an overzealous Philosophy student or what), and then Milo put the threatening email WITH EVERYONE'S ADDRESSES up on the projector during his presentation. Again, if it was a false flag email (definitely possible), or not Milo himself outed the email addresses of all the students at his event. The video on youtube has been watched thousands of times.

A kid at the College Republicans not knowing how BCC works, coupled with Milo giving negative fucks about his own supporters resulted in a massive dox. I'd be pissed if I was going.

I watched the first 20 minutes or so of his speech and not one time during that 20 minutes did he mention what he actually believes, instead was just talking about how stupid liberals are. How original.

I agree with everyone who said the best thing to do is just ignore him. Sadly, it looks like the rioters this week were an organized group who don't care how much harm they're actually doing.

Offline antigoon

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #26 on: February 02, 2017, 08:57:48 PM »
violence is bad

counterpoint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMHpgQxTC64

Offline pogoowner

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #27 on: February 02, 2017, 09:34:14 PM »
Quote
UC Berkeley officials are warning the hosts of a Wednesday night event featuring right-wing provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos that his campus speech may be used to target individual students in the country without documentation.

“We are deeply concerned for all students’ safety and ability to pursue their education here at Cal beyond Milo’s speech,” the university’s Office of Student Affairs said in a letter Tuesday to the Berkeley College Republicans, the students hosting the event. “Milo’s event may be used to target individuals, either in the audience or by using their personal information in a way that causes them to become human targets to serve a political agenda.”

The UC Berkeley letter warns the Republican hosts of the event that Yiannopoulos could target individual students — holding up their photos or revealing personal information about them — during the speech that will be live-streamed, “putting students at risk.”

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/UC-warns-campus-group-Yiannopoulos-event-could-10901517.php

Offline Stadler

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #28 on: February 03, 2017, 10:02:52 AM »
Milo dox'ed his own supporters at the event in Boulder. The CU College Republicans sent out an email to all attendees - and didn't BCC: them. They were all visible to everyone involved. Someone then sent out a threatening email to the list (I have no idea if it was a false flag or an overzealous Philosophy student or what), and then Milo put the threatening email WITH EVERYONE'S ADDRESSES up on the projector during his presentation. Again, if it was a false flag email (definitely possible), or not Milo himself outed the email addresses of all the students at his event. The video on youtube has been watched thousands of times.

A kid at the College Republicans not knowing how BCC works, coupled with Milo giving negative fucks about his own supporters resulted in a massive dox. I'd be pissed if I was going.

I watched the first 20 minutes or so of his speech and not one time during that 20 minutes did he mention what he actually believes, instead was just talking about how stupid liberals are. How original.

I agree with everyone who said the best thing to do is just ignore him. Sadly, it looks like the rioters this week were an organized group who don't care how much harm they're actually doing.

What does it mean to "dox" someone/something?  Can you "dox" something?

Offline antigoon

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #29 on: February 03, 2017, 10:04:52 AM »
Milo dox'ed his own supporters at the event in Boulder. The CU College Republicans sent out an email to all attendees - and didn't BCC: them. They were all visible to everyone involved. Someone then sent out a threatening email to the list (I have no idea if it was a false flag or an overzealous Philosophy student or what), and then Milo put the threatening email WITH EVERYONE'S ADDRESSES up on the projector during his presentation. Again, if it was a false flag email (definitely possible), or not Milo himself outed the email addresses of all the students at his event. The video on youtube has been watched thousands of times.

A kid at the College Republicans not knowing how BCC works, coupled with Milo giving negative fucks about his own supporters resulted in a massive dox. I'd be pissed if I was going.

I watched the first 20 minutes or so of his speech and not one time during that 20 minutes did he mention what he actually believes, instead was just talking about how stupid liberals are. How original.

I agree with everyone who said the best thing to do is just ignore him. Sadly, it looks like the rioters this week were an organized group who don't care how much harm they're actually doing.

What does it mean to "dox" someone/something?  Can you "dox" something?

It's when you publicize private or otherwise publicly unknown information about someone. It's a harassment technique.

More here: http://computer.howstuffworks.com/what-is-doxxing.htm

Offline Stadler

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #30 on: February 03, 2017, 10:05:57 AM »
So what my generation would call "outing" is now "doxing"?   Got it.  (And no, I'm not being snarky; I'm trying to understand.)

Offline Adami

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #31 on: February 03, 2017, 10:06:57 AM »
So what my generation would call "outing" is now "doxing"?   Got it.  (And no, I'm not being snarky; I'm trying to understand.)

Yea, I didn't know that either. I thought it was like "letz take dis down 2 to the dox and sort it out"
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Offline antigoon

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2017, 10:08:23 AM »
So what my generation would call "outing" is now "doxing"?   Got it.  (And no, I'm not being snarky; I'm trying to understand.)

Yeah, I guess so. Except nowadays with everything being digital the scope of what can be found and published is much wider.

Offline Implode

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2017, 10:19:21 AM »
Doxing is usually a bit more serious than just revealing a name too. For example, Richard Spencer was doxed a few weeks ago in the form of people publicly spreading around his name, address, phone number, etc. Sometimes it gets to be as bad as someone finding information like credit card numbers and releasing that too.

Offline XeRocks81

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Re: Why The Urge to Silence Opposing Views?
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2017, 12:13:46 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/01/milo-yiannopoulos-uc-berkeley-event-cancelled

One of the directors of The Matrix, Lana Wachowski,  was at the Berkeley protest.
Quote
Lana Wachowski, another protester, defended using extreme tactics to deny Yiannopolous a platform. “The moral imperative is to win,” she said. “There’s something to be said for fighting according to a code, but if you lose, people are going to die. People are going to get deported.

“It’s absolutely acceptable to use violence. They are 100% certain to use it against us.”