Author Topic: The "luckiest" musicians ever  (Read 10176 times)

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Offline bundy

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2017, 02:30:29 PM »
By this, I mean musicians who were fortunate enough to end up in a band that hit it big.  Not saying these have to be bad musicians, but examples of musicians who were lucky to have the success that they did because of the other members in the band.



Given the above, I'm going to say John Paul Jones.

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #71 on: January 13, 2017, 02:35:21 PM »
Man I disagree about JPJ.  His ability to play different instruments allowed Led Zep to expand their music horizons.
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Online mikeyd23

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #72 on: January 13, 2017, 02:39:00 PM »
Man I disagree about JPJ.  His ability to play different instruments allowed Led Zep to expand their music horizons.

Yup, I'd say no one in Zepp falls into this "lucky" category.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #73 on: January 13, 2017, 03:23:59 PM »
Man I disagree about JPJ.  His ability to play different instruments allowed Led Zep to expand their music horizons.

Yup, I'd say no one in Zepp falls into this "lucky" category.

Yep, LZ is one of those bands where no one was lucky...The Who, LZ, Rush, Queen, etc.

Offline bundy

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #74 on: January 13, 2017, 03:54:30 PM »
So you guys all believe LZ would not have achieved the success they did if Jones was not the 4th member and that conversley Jones would have gone on to become a superstar even if he hadn't happened to be the 4th member of a band that included Page, Plant and Bonham? Any 4th member playing with that trio at that time would consider themselves "lucky" IMO.

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #75 on: January 13, 2017, 04:09:26 PM »
Do you know who wrote the riff to Black Dog.  He came up with the recorder into to Stairway, wrote the main riff for Dazed and confused?

Yeah he was. 
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #76 on: January 13, 2017, 04:55:35 PM »
A *LOT* of classic Led Zep riffs were written by JPJ.

My friend who is a Led Zep fanboy said it was mainly the complicated sounding ones. And Page's riffs were mostly the simpler ones like Whole Lotta Love.

Offline bundy

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #77 on: January 13, 2017, 11:30:03 PM »
I'm aware of the above and not denying JPJ's contributions to the band or in any way underestimating his talent or achievement as an musician/performer/writer. Indeed, some of their most original stuff is down to JPJ (No Quarter comes imediately to mind) and Page especially has been criticised as not particularly original. I'm simply saying that given the initial question posed by Kevshemev, JPJ was extremely lucky to be a member of  group that consisted of Page, Plant and Bonham (each with their larger than life personas and stage presence) and managed by Peter Grant. What made Zeppelin the global superstars they were was in large part down to personas, image and auroa/presence of the other 3 and Grant's PR brilliance. Ask the average rock fan to name the members of LZ and I guarantee that those who can only name 1 wouldn't name Jones and of those who name 3 of the 4, Jones will be the one who the vast majority omit.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/20-things-you-didnt-know-john-paul-jones-did-20160318

If he had been a regular contributing hired gun (Ala Mick Ronson and later Brian Eno with Bowie) rather than a fully fledged member of LZ, the band would still have been just as successful. The man's contributions before, during  and after his time with LZ are incredible. None of these are what are what he is remembered for. His achievements with Zep though are what are most widely known though as he was a member of the band, not just a regular hired gun. Zep would have been just as successful as a 3 piece (Plant, Page, Bonham) managed by Grant, with Jones contributing regularly from outside of the band as a hired hand IMHO. Jones was lucky to have been a member of the band and enjoyed an equal part of their success. Contrast this to Ronson and (later) Eno and Visconiti's collaborations with Bowie. Also John Evans who was basically just a hired hand during his time with Jethro Tull (a band in the pre Tull days called the John Evan band included Evans, Ian Anderson, Barriemore Barlow and Jeffrey Hammond-Hammond all future Tull members). I could go on with many more examples of session musicians/hired guns who have made regular significant contributions to their employer, but were only ever employees. JPJ was lucky in that he was a member of a band that included Page, Plant, Bonham and was managed by Grant and was not just an employee.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #78 on: January 14, 2017, 12:16:26 AM »
Well, if we're going down the road of JPJ as a lucky musician, than almost all bassists are lucky. Who cares about bass players anyway? John Myung is so lucky.


Offline bundy

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #79 on: January 14, 2017, 01:03:53 AM »
I'm not arguing that he was lucky as the bass player. I'm arguing he was lucky to be the 4th member of  group that comprised Page, Plant and Bonham. With Grant's astute management these could have released anything and been superstars, conversely those same albums (with the exception maybe of 2 and 4) could have been released by any other group of musicians and I doubt they would have resulted in that group becoming the global superstars that Zeppelin were.

I'm not dismissing Jones and bass players who are often at the very core of a group's success (Lemmy, Jack Bruce, Geddy Lee, Chris Squire, Les Claypool, Roger Waters, Paul McCartney etc., etc)

To use a sporting analogy, I don't care who was on the Bulls roster in the early 90s. They all ended up with championship rings, but were lucky to be in a team that included Michael Jordan. That doesn't make them any better or worse as basket ballers, it's just s statement of fact. Remove Jordan from that team and I wonder how successful they would have been. Likewise for guys in the current Barcelona squad ,who are lucky to be in a team that includes Messi, Suarez and Neymar. Transfer that same player to another club and they are very unlikely to experience the success they would experience at Barcelona. Those three though are superstars where ever they play.

I probably still haven't made my point very well, but perhaps there's some who see what I'm trying to argue as basically blasphemy and could never be convinced or even acknowledge that even if Jones wasn't lucky, he was at the very least, fortunate.

Offline Adami

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #80 on: January 14, 2017, 01:10:48 AM »
I'm not arguing that he was lucky as the bass player. I'm arguing he was lucky to be the 4th member of  group that comprised Page, Plant and Bonham. With Grant's astute management these could have released anything and been superstars, conversely those same albums (with the exception maybe of 2 and 4) could have been released by any other group of musicians and I doubt they would have resulted in that group becoming the global superstars that Zeppelin were.

I'm not dismissing Jones and bass players who are often at the very core of a group's success (Lemmy, Jack Bruce, Geddy Lee, Chris Squire, Les Claypool, Roger Waters, Paul McCartney etc., etc)

To use a sporting analogy, I don't care who was on the Bulls roster in the early 90s. They all ended up with championship rings, but were lucky to be in a team that included Michael Jordan. That doesn't make them any better or worse as basket ballers, it's just s statement of fact. Remove Jordan from that team and I wonder how successful they would have been. Likewise for guys in the current Barcelona squad ,who are lucky to be in a team that includes Messi, Suarez and Neymar. Transfer that same player to another club and they are very unlikely to experience the success they would experience at Barcelona. Those three though are superstars where ever they play.

I probably still haven't made my point very well, but perhaps there's some who see what I'm trying to argue as basically blasphemy and could never be convinced or even acknowledge that even if Jones wasn't lucky, he was at the very least, fortunate.

By that logic, wouldn't Bonham also be lucky to be in Zeppelin?
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #81 on: January 14, 2017, 01:18:44 AM »
In that case, all the members of Porcupine Tree are lucky because they had Steven Wilson?

Offline bundy

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #82 on: January 14, 2017, 02:38:46 AM »
I'm not arguing that he was lucky as the bass player. I'm arguing he was lucky to be the 4th member of  group that comprised Page, Plant and Bonham. With Grant's astute management these could have released anything and been superstars, conversely those same albums (with the exception maybe of 2 and 4) could have been released by any other group of musicians and I doubt they would have resulted in that group becoming the global superstars that Zeppelin were.

I'm not dismissing Jones and bass players who are often at the very core of a group's success (Lemmy, Jack Bruce, Geddy Lee, Chris Squire, Les Claypool, Roger Waters, Paul McCartney etc., etc)

To use a sporting analogy, I don't care who was on the Bulls roster in the early 90s. They all ended up with championship rings, but were lucky to be in a team that included Michael Jordan. That doesn't make them any better or worse as basket ballers, it's just s statement of fact. Remove Jordan from that team and I wonder how successful they would have been. Likewise for guys in the current Barcelona squad ,who are lucky to be in a team that includes Messi, Suarez and Neymar. Transfer that same player to another club and they are very unlikely to experience the success they would experience at Barcelona. Those three though are superstars where ever they play.

I probably still haven't made my point very well, but perhaps there's some who see what I'm trying to argue as basically blasphemy and could never be convinced or even acknowledge that even if Jones wasn't lucky, he was at the very least, fortunate.

By that logic, wouldn't Bonham also be lucky to be in Zeppelin?

No. In each of my posts, I've specifically mentioned, Bonham along with Page and Plant as critical in the massive success that the group achieved due to their larger than life personas and legendary antics. I suppose what I'm trying to argue (perhaps poorly, by the reactions I'm getting, is that Zeppelin's MASSIVE success was due more to the personas (on and off the stage) of Page, Plant and Bonham along with the managerial flair of Grant than it was to the quality of their music, (which JPJ was a critical contributor to).

In that case, all the members of Porcupine Tree are lucky because they had Steven Wilson?

Porcupine Tree have never come even close to achieving the global success that LZ did. In fact Japan in their heyday were probably every bit as successful as PT. My point, again returning to the original premise of the thread, is that JPJ was lucky to be the 4th member of a group that were THE superstar act of the 70s. They weren't just a successful or evenly highly successful act, they were THE rock gods of the 70s and as I've written several times now, that is down to Grant and the personas of the other 3 as much as to any music they recorded.

For the bass players I might have offended, a couple more that I left off the list in my previous post, Geezer Butler, Flea, John Wetton, Richard Sinclair, Cliff Burton (Metallica were never the same without him - but that's another thread  ;) ) Tommy Araya etc. etc. - I'm not bashing bass players or their contributions to their respective bands.

Keeping in mind the original intent of the thread, if LZ's phenomenal success was not down largely to (as I've stated many times now) the personas of P,P and B and the management of Grant, what then made them the biggest act of the 70s bar none? Having read many posts on these very forums stating that Zeppelin were basically unoriginal and/or over rated, I'm interested to read other arguments about what made LZ so successful and how JPJ was in no way "lucky" to have been part of that huge success and the juggernaut that was Led Zeppelin, and how he would have been a member of The biggest group of the 70s that did not include Grant and the other 3 simply because of his musical and creative abilities.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #83 on: January 14, 2017, 03:01:19 AM »
John Petrucci is lucky that he decided to learn guitar as a kid.



*sidenote. When guitarists are as good as Petrucci - you can't imagine them going thru the same shit as all other beginners. Learning the first open chords - struggling with barre chords,

aching hands, learning that first scale / solo... Having a cheapy guitar into a horrible amp...

Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #84 on: January 14, 2017, 05:58:10 AM »
*snip*

I see where you're coming from.  But I disagree respectfully.  If I ever saw JPJ in the street and said 'you were so lucky to be in a band with those three' I'd probably have to kill myself after he slapped me in his face with his wallet and huge dick.  I enjoy JPJ's contributions to Zeppelin more than anyone else.  Besides Bonham... maybe. 

I was thinking about this the other night actually, I think all four of those guys were lucky to find each other and create what they did, when they did.  It's just one of those things that happens every so often with bands - planets align and awesomeness happens.  Can you imagine a group of top session muso's today, or in any era, that could get together and take over the world like that? Toto is packed with those kinds of guys but they are nowhere near Zeppelin in popularity. 

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #85 on: January 14, 2017, 06:49:26 AM »
...the Blowfish
...the Blackhearts
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #86 on: January 14, 2017, 07:30:53 AM »
By this, I mean musicians who were fortunate enough to end up in a band that hit it big.  Not saying these have to be bad musicians, but examples of musicians who were lucky to have the success that they did because of the other members in the band.

Examples:

Michael Anthony - decent bass player and good background singer, but Van Halen would have been big thanks to EVH no matter what.
Ringo Starr - sure, Ringo is not as awful as some think he is, and he inspired a lot of drummers, but ending up with two of the best songwriters ever, and a third who was damn good as well, was pretty damn lucky)
Adam Clayton & Larry Mullen, JR - with all due respect to both, neither would have made a dent anywhere else if not for landing in a band with Bono and The Edge.  To their credit, I suspect both know this, which is why U2 has never really had any real drama; they know their places and how lucky they are.

Ringo wasn't really lucky. The Beatles had another drummer but the studio told them to try Ringo out because he was a great studio drummer. He got in because of skill and not luck.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #87 on: January 14, 2017, 07:43:36 AM »

Ringo wasn't really lucky. The Beatles had another drummer but the studio told them to try Ringo out because he was a great studio drummer. He got in because of skill and not luck.

All true, but he was still lucky to end up in the band he did.  Just look at the songwriting credits for every Beatles album and tell me otherwise.  :biggrin:

Offline bundy

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #88 on: January 14, 2017, 08:55:11 AM »
*snip*

If I ever saw JPJ in the street and said 'you were so lucky to be in a band with those three' I'd probably have to kill myself after he slapped me in his face with his wallet and huge dick.


And I would completely expect and understand that reaction (I would probably be a bit surprised about the second part though  :lol)  I'm almost certain however, that had Plant looked similar to Grant, Page born a striking resemblance to Leslie West and Bonham was an introvert who abstained from drugs and alcohol, that our friend Mr Jones' wallet would be significantly lighter than what it is. "Luckily" for him, that wasn't the case.   ;)

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #89 on: January 14, 2017, 10:27:45 AM »
Waylon Jennings and Tommy Allsup. Prior to the flight that killed Buddy Holly, JP Richardson, and Ritchie Valens, Jennings gave up his seat to Richardson, and Allsup flipped a coin for his seat with Valens and lost.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #90 on: January 14, 2017, 11:33:40 AM »
Similar to how they drew cards for Cliff's Burton's bunk. Cliff obviously "won" that bunk and the rest is history.

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #91 on: January 14, 2017, 06:05:41 PM »
Adding to the JPJ discussion, I actually feel he was the most talented musician in the entire band and gets nowhere near enough credit for what he did in that band. JP, RP, and JB are all supremely talented musicians but I would argue that they were the lucky ones because they were in a band with a guy like JPJ who could take their music to a whole other level. Of course I'm a bassist so I may be biased.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2017, 05:49:41 PM by TheCountOfNYC »
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Offline twosuitsluke

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #92 on: January 14, 2017, 06:09:26 PM »
Similar to how they drew cards for Cliff's Burton's bunk. Cliff obviously "won" that bunk and the rest is history.

I'm sure I read that that isn't actually true and it never happened (the drawing for bunks). I could be wrong though.

Offline rumborak

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #93 on: January 14, 2017, 08:20:59 PM »
Every member of The Rolling Stones, just pick one or all of them. In my mind the single most overrated band ever in the history of music...they, like the Beatles just happened to hit at the right time.

I would single out Charlie Watts especially there. I mean, that's pure WTF territory. The guy can barely drum.

Regarding the JLB comment, I actually agree. I'm by no means saying James is a bad singer, but he has been incredibly lucky to land a gig with a band that could afford to continue having a wailing operatic singer while the rest of the music industry entirely turned their backs towards that type of singing. Had he joined any other band, no matter how skilled he is, he would have quickly been forgotten.
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Offline SoundscapeMN

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #94 on: January 14, 2017, 08:47:05 PM »
Rick Laird to an extent fits as the rest of the Mahavishnu guys have had quite successful careers outside of M.O., but Laird?

Offline Adami

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #95 on: January 14, 2017, 08:48:55 PM »
The 2nd DJ guy in Slipknot.

No one knows who you are. No one knows what you do. Most people forget you exist.

I was tempted to say the main DJ guy, but he is a huge contributor to their sound, and the two trash can drumming guys help make their live shows what they are.
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #96 on: January 14, 2017, 09:03:31 PM »
Yes. It reminds me of listening to garbage cans being  tossed around by the NYC Sanitation workers.

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #97 on: January 14, 2017, 10:08:38 PM »
The 2nd DJ guy in Slipknot.

No one knows who you are. No one knows what you do. Most people forget you exist.

I was tempted to say the main DJ guy, but he is a huge contributor to their sound, and the two trash can drumming guys help make their live shows what they are.
I think I read that he controls the guitar effects onstage.
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Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #98 on: January 15, 2017, 03:36:25 AM »
The 2nd DJ guy in Slipknot.

No one knows who you are. No one knows what you do. Most people forget you exist.

I was tempted to say the main DJ guy, but he is a huge contributor to their sound, and the two trash can drumming guys help make their live shows what they are.
I think I read that he controls the guitar effects onstage.

so he's doing a guitar tech's job as well?  i hope they pay him for that.

Offline SystematicThought

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #99 on: January 15, 2017, 05:26:15 AM »
Sounds like it and he also works with Sid, the other DJ, to work with sampling and things like that.
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Offline Train of Naught

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #100 on: January 15, 2017, 05:35:03 AM »
Yeah, if I remember correctly, Sid is the turntable dude and actually used to be a pretty big DJ under the moniker "DJ Starscream", contributes a lot to the on-stage performance and sound. Though I don't know if it's the case with more recent albums, songs like Surfacing and Spit it Out include a lot of scratching.

Craig however (the guy with the huge nails sticking out of his mask), is the sampler and barely has to do anything during shows. Maybe he does the samples live but there is no use in doing so, he could as well plan everything out beforehand. I think the project started out as a group of friends from Iowa and they didn't really leave anyone out, despite the obviously crazy amount of people. I'd argue that Craig Jones is among the most lucky musicians out there, yeah. I would say the same for the two percussionists, who are mainly there for the show, but having seen them these two really do put up a mindblowing concert.
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Offline SystematicThought

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #101 on: January 15, 2017, 02:20:35 PM »
I think Clown, one of the percussionists, is vital to the band. He handles a lot of the art direction and tone of the albums. It's Clown and Jim Root that are going into studio soon to start the next album. I don't know how much he writes, but he handles a lot.

The other percussionist Chris, I'm not sure what he does, but he may be along for the ride
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Offline Adami

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #102 on: January 15, 2017, 02:30:25 PM »
I think Slipknot is a bit odd since they became famous for their live shows, and the two trash can guys are definitely a huge part of that, which is why I didn't include them.

If Slipknot got famous more so for their albums, then sure. But even live that 2nd DJ guy is pretty redundant.
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Offline Adami

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #103 on: January 15, 2017, 05:01:00 PM »
I'd say the Empu and Jukka of Nightwish. Easily could have been any guitarist or drummer and the band's success has little to do with them (as much as I personally love them both).
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Offline Fritzinger

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Re: The "luckiest" musicians ever
« Reply #104 on: January 15, 2017, 05:18:50 PM »
Art Garfunkel.
He is a very great singer, but without Paul Simons songs, I think he never would have enjoyed the success he had.

Chris Wolstenholme & Dominic Howard.
Same here, both are good musicians, but it's really Bellamy's singing, guitar & piano playing, as well as his songs that make Muse good. I hate to say it, but they could be replaced by any good drummer or bass player, because I wouldn't say their playing is very characteristic. If two complete other guys had formed the band with Matt, I think they would have gained the same success.
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