The "luckiest" musicians ever

[Kotowboy]

Bass players you couldn't replace in their bands...

Les Claypool

Geddy Lee

Lemmy

Mike Dirnt to some degree. He also does very recognisable harmonies.

[erwinrafael]

Many others. John Myung. Chris Squire. Pat Badger. Billy Sheehan. Ben Shepherd. John Deacon. John Paul Jones.

[Kotowboy]

How could I forget John Paul Jones - probably the most talented member of Led Zep.

[bosk1]

A lot of bassist names being bandied around. Poor rhythm section players, so unappreciated. 

I will come to the defense of Michael Anthony. If his work with Chickenfoot tells us anything, he's not just a simple root note player. It's just that that style of playing is what worked with Van Halen's music with Eddie's busy guitars taking up so much sonic space. Listen to Running with the Devil (which ironically started off with the bass) and imagine if another bass playing style would work.

Is Michael Anthony replaceable? Maybe. But would Van Halen have worked with a more "up front" bassist that is not willing to take the backseat, especially with all those other egos in the band? My reading is that it won't as Michael Anthony seems to be the source of stability in that band. Which is no wonder why they really went nowhere after firing him.

Yeah, that's a good point.  But I still think he is a valid choice.  Eddie's talent and hunger, along with Dave's image and showmanship, would have broken the band huge no matter what, I think. 

Here's another I will throw out there that is a bit unique:  Vivian Campbell in Def Leppard.  A couple of caveats:  First off, I know it is kind of easy to shoehorn into this argument basically ANY hired gun brought in to replace a departing member in an already-successful band.  That isn't what I am talking about.  Second, I know Viv was already successful and had a reputation on his own, which also makes him a bit different and seem to not fit the discussion.  But here's the thing that I think makes him fit the discussion:  his stock was falling at the time, IMO, since he hadn't really done much after leaving Dio, and the things he did were pretty obscure and not well received.  And after he joined Def Lep, although he immediately fit really well into the band, he did almost nothing to contribute to the band's sound or direction, from what I understand.  And despite them meandering and floundering in their sound, they have stayed relevant and successful.  They continue to get on huge tours and to sell out arenas.  But not on the strength of anything they have released since Hysteria.  Yeah, there are other bands that fit that description as well.  But my point in mentioning Viv/Lep in this thread is that I think he fits the model because he has the benefit of having a long time riding success that he had nothing to do with.

[erwinrafael]

Yeah, that's a good point.  But I still think he is a valid choice.  Eddie's talent and hunger, along with Dave's image and showmanship, would have broken the band huge no matter what, I think. 

Would they last more than one album though, with EVH, AVH, DLR and a bassist with a bigger ego going at it? 

Because of this discussion, I am listening to the Van Halen debut now focusing on Michael Anthony. Wow, he's actually excellent.

[El Barto]

Many bass players are easily replaceable from a musical standpoint. Yes, including the big ones. Pino Paladino can play anything Ox did. At the same time bass players are often vital for the intangibles. The Who was never the same band without Entwistle. Ditto for Metallica who brought in a more talented player but lost the soul of the band. I won't bother going to see Yes anymore without Squire, even though Sherwood will undoubtedly do a fine job.

As for Anthony, if the the argument is that he's important because of his willingness to not play, then I'm calling him lucky. Though I still credit him as being vital for his vocals.

[erwinrafael]

As for Anthony, if the the argument is that he's important because of his willingness to not play, then I'm calling him lucky. Though I still credit him as being vital for his vocals.

Listen to at least the first album and tell me Anthony is not playing. I am doing it right now. He's not really up front allowing for Eddie's guitar acrobatics to shine. EVH's rhythm guitar work is rarely at the low end and Anthony is giving the songs the oomph that they needed.

[Adami]

As for Anthony, if the the argument is that he's important because of his willingness to not play, then I'm calling him lucky. Though I still credit him as being vital for his vocals.

Listen to at least the first album and tell me Anthony is not playing. I am doing it right now. He's not really up front allowing for Eddie's guitar acrobatics to shine. EVH's rhythm guitar work is rarely at the low end and Anthony is giving the songs the oomph that they needed.

I think the argument is that most bassists at the time could have easily provided that low ended and oomph, since that's generally what a bassist does.

[erwinrafael]

As for Anthony, if the the argument is that he's important because of his willingness to not play, then I'm calling him lucky. Though I still credit him as being vital for his vocals.

Listen to at least the first album and tell me Anthony is not playing. I am doing it right now. He's not really up front allowing for Eddie's guitar acrobatics to shine. EVH's rhythm guitar work is rarely at the low end and Anthony is giving the songs the oomph that they needed.

I think the argument is that most bassists at the time could have easily provided that low ended and oomph, since that's generally what a bassist does.

But that criteria would make almost all bassists in a band that hit the big time "lucky" except for bassists (and drummers in that case) who play with styles that call attention to themselves. For me, if a rhythm section of a band contributes "character" to the music, I would say that those musicians earned their due and are not just "lucky". The "lucky" musicians are those who do not actually contribute much character or are sometimes even detrimental to the music.

Which is why the correct answer is Janick Gers. 

[hefdaddy42]

Michael Anthony wasn't "lucky", he was an integral part of the sound of the band, with his bass allowing Eddie to be flashy and his vocal harmonies.

I don't see how he fits this criteria at all.

[erwinrafael]

Michael Anthony unleashed could actually be heard in Without You in VHIII. 

EDIT: Or even just in the best Van Halen song ever, Right Now.

[El Barto]

Here's the thing. If you drop Michael Anthony into Priest nobody would notice or care. You could do the same thing with AC/DC. Cliff Williams and Ian Hill could trade gigs and they'd still be the same bands. You put Williams or Hill in Van Halen and it's no longer the same band. Not even close. I think that's where the distinction comes in with bass players.

[King Postwhore]

Michael Anthony unleashed could actually be heard in Without You in VHIII. 

EDIT: Or even just in the best Van Halen song ever, Right Now.

That was Eddie on Bass.  Seriously.

[erwinrafael]

Here's the thing. If you drop Michael Anthony into Priest nobody would notice or care. You could do the same thing with AC/DC. Cliff Williams and Ian Hill could trade gigs and they'd still be the same bands. You put Williams or Hill in Van Halen and it's no longer the same band. Not even close. I think that's where the distinction comes in with bass players.

So Michael Anthony is a good bass player and is not just lucky?

That was Eddie on Bass.  Seriously.

Isn't Without You one of the three songs Michael Anthony played in in VHIII?

[twosuitsluke]

Liam. Gallagher.

Famous and rich exclusively thanks to his brother. Not once has he been grateful. And without oasis he'd be a nobody or in jail.

All he does is talk shit about the person who got him where he is today.

Ugly. Stupid. Can't sing live.

I'm not disagreeing with on some points but I wouldn't say Oasis were successful exclusively because of Noel. Liam brought an attitude and stage presence. He became the face of a generation and his loud mouth, outspoken persona help to actually propel the band. That's how I see it anyway. Noel is clearly more talented and Liam may be lucky in some sense but he certainly helped the band get as big as they did.

[Adami]

Here's the thing. If you drop Michael Anthony into Priest nobody would notice or care. You could do the same thing with AC/DC. Cliff Williams and Ian Hill could trade gigs and they'd still be the same bands. You put Williams or Hill in Van Halen and it's no longer the same band. Not even close. I think that's where the distinction comes in with bass players.

That is a really great point.

[Kotowboy]

Liam. Gallagher.

Famous and rich exclusively thanks to his brother. Not once has he been grateful. And without oasis he'd be a nobody or in jail.

All he does is talk shit about the person who got him where he is today.

Ugly. Stupid. Can't sing live.

I'm not disagreeing with on some points but I wouldn't say Oasis were successful exclusively because of Noel. Liam brought an attitude and stage presence. He became the face of a generation and his loud mouth, outspoken persona help to actually propel the band. That's how I see it anyway. Noel is clearly more talented and Liam may be lucky in some sense but he certainly helped the band get as big as they did.

Right. He had the stage persona and the voice on record. Live he was shit. I've gone back to old recordings and he couldn't sing live. I guess I didn't notice when I was 18 and in love with the band.

Also - Liam wouldn't have made it on his own. Rain just didn't have the songs apparently. The first Beady Eye album was pretty poor too.

[KevShmev]

I get the context of this thread (and love it!) 

Thank God someone does!!

To clarify, calling someone lucky in the sense I mean it does not mean I think they suck or didn't contribute or were easily replaceable; it just means they were lucky enough to end up in a band with an all-timer (or maybe more than one all-timers).  Michael Anthony is a perfect example. So is Ringo Starr. I think Nick Mason is a good example as well.

[Stadler]

My take on this - and why I put in Mick Mars - is really that point that el Barto made.  I've told this before, but I saw Sabbath in February of 94 in a club, with Motorhead opening.  it was the Cross Purposes tour, so it was Bobby Rondinelli on drums, Tony Martin on vox, and Geezer was on bass.   I saw Sabbath in February of 95, in the SAME club, with Motorhead opening.   it was the Forbidden tour, so it was Cozy Powell on drums, Tony Martin on vox, and Neil Murray on bass.

It might have been two different bands entirely.   Like night and fucking day.  Geezer brought SO much to the party, and even though Neil Murray is a very competent bass player, it just wasn't the same.

It's not even "skillz"; there's little argument that Bruce Kulick and even Vin Vincent are better, technically, as guitar players, but Ace brings something intangible, and like with Geezer, the other guys play differently with them.   

I think Mike Anthony is a GREAT bass player; I saw a club show with Chickenfoot and he blew me away.  But he's lucky, in that he didn't have to do all that.   He got a great gig, doing what Ed told him.  Is Mike better than that?  Of course, but they didn't need him to be "THE MIGHTY VAN HALEN!"   I think Mick Mars is in that category. Does he suck?   Nope (though I don't think he's really GREAT, either).   Nikki wrote the songs, Vince was the mouthpiece, and Tommy was the cock.   Perhaps the dynamic would be very different, and maybe behind the scenes he was a key strategist, but I don't think Motley is one bit more or less popular without Mick Mars.

[twosuitsluke]

Liam. Gallagher.

Famous and rich exclusively thanks to his brother. Not once has he been grateful. And without oasis he'd be a nobody or in jail.

All he does is talk shit about the person who got him where he is today.

Ugly. Stupid. Can't sing live.

I'm not disagreeing with on some points but I wouldn't say Oasis were successful exclusively because of Noel. Liam brought an attitude and stage presence. He became the face of a generation and his loud mouth, outspoken persona help to actually propel the band. That's how I see it anyway. Noel is clearly more talented and Liam may be lucky in some sense but he certainly helped the band get as big as they did.

Right. He had the stage persona and the voice on record. Live he was shit. I've gone back to old recordings and he couldn't sing live. I guess I didn't notice when I was 18 and in love with the band.

Also - Liam wouldn't have made it on his own. Rain just didn't have the songs apparently. The first Beady Eye album was pretty poor too.

You're probably right that Liam wouldn't have made it on his own. But Oasis likely wouldn't have become as big without Liam.

Yes, in a sense Liam was lucky to be in the band but equally you could say the rest of the band were lucky to have a frontman like Liam.

[erwinrafael]

Thank God someone does!!

To clarify, calling someone lucky in the sense I mean it does not mean I think they suck or didn't contribute or were easily replaceable; it just means they were lucky enough to end up in a band with an all-timer (or maybe more than one all-timers).  Michael Anthony is a perfect example. So is Ringo Starr. I think Nick Mason is a good example as well.

But you titled the thread as the "luckiest ever", so the luckiest would be definitely those who were pretty useless. 

[Stadler]

I do have the epitome of this topic, though:   Donna Godcheaux

Band in flux, losing a founding member/keyboard player, having financial troubles, and this girl introduces Jerry to a quiet, odd musical genius, Keith Godcheaux, who subsequently joins the band.  Less than a year later, the "girl" goes on tour with them and starts to provide "musical" "vocal" (both very much in quotes) accompaniment.    For whatever reason, Bob Weird liked singing with her, but it was an abomination.   

Sure enough, in '94, when the RaRHoF in their largesse decided that everyone who ever stood on stage and played a note with the Dead was eligible for induction, she got in.    Ritchie Blackmore, Neil Peart, Chris Squier and Freddie Mercury had yet to be inducted, but sure enough she was LUCKY enough to get in there.

Do you know how many versions of "Playing In The Band" I have that are absolutely ruined by tuneless wailing that even Yoko Ono would say is over the top?   Too many.

[erwinrafael]

That's more like it! Although we don't even know if she qualifies as a musician. 

[Kotowboy]

You're probably right that Liam wouldn't have made it on his own. But Oasis likely wouldn't have become as big without Liam.

Yes, in a sense Liam was lucky to be in the band but equally you could say the rest of the band were lucky to have a frontman like Liam.

Perhaps but Noels songs were still better than every other British band at the time so he would have made it but might not have been as big...

[King Postwhore]

Here's the thing. If you drop Michael Anthony into Priest nobody would notice or care. You could do the same thing with AC/DC. Cliff Williams and Ian Hill could trade gigs and they'd still be the same bands. You put Williams or Hill in Van Halen and it's no longer the same band. Not even close. I think that's where the distinction comes in with bass players.

So Michael Anthony is a good bass player and is not just lucky?

That was Eddie on Bass.  Seriously.

Isn't Without You one of the three songs Michael Anthony played in in VHIII?

I've read about the 3 songs as well. Listen to style of playing.  Fingertaping, playing the same notes with guitarist as a riff.  Thats Eddie all the way.  Mike can pay that but his style is a pocket player.

[KevShmev]

Thank God someone does!!

To clarify, calling someone lucky in the sense I mean it does not mean I think they suck or didn't contribute or were easily replaceable; it just means they were lucky enough to end up in a band with an all-timer (or maybe more than one all-timers).  Michael Anthony is a perfect example. So is Ringo Starr. I think Nick Mason is a good example as well.

But you titled the thread as the "luckiest ever", so the luckiest would be definitely those who were pretty useless. 

No. I put "luckiest" in quotes for a reason and gave this explanation in the first post:

By this, I mean musicians who were fortunate enough to end up in a band that hit it big.  Not saying these have to be bad musicians, but examples of musicians who were lucky to have the success that they did because of the other members in the band.

[hefdaddy42]

Well, that could be any member of any band who isn't the "star" of the band.

[mike099]

Joe Walsh and not because he was not a good player, but the money he made after joining around the Hotel California days.

When folks mentioned the Beatles, I immediately thought of the PT song 'Four Cords that made a million'.

[Big Hath]

Ritchie Blackmore, Neil Peart, Chris Squier and Freddie Mercury

what does this band sound like?

[El Barto]

Well, that could be any member of any band who isn't the "star" of the band.

Indeed. Every member of the Doors other than Morison. Taylor and Deacon. Myung and LaBrie. Any member of the Stones and Aerosmith with normal sized lips.

[mikeyd23]

Well, that could be any member of any band who isn't the "star" of the band.

Ha yup, exactly.

[Architeuthis]

Mark Wahlberg,  when he got the gig with Steel Dragon. 

[Architeuthis]

Seriously though,  Arnel Pineda of Journey

[Architeuthis]

Tommy Decarlo.  Boston's New singer

[ReaperKK]

Plus there's the fact that Larry started the band.

Also allegedly they kept Adam because he learned music terms to make it sound like he was better than he was

It's true. I remember watching a U2 documentary where I believe it was Edge who was said Adam kept dropping terms like 'intonation' when in fact he didn't really know what he was talking about.

I don't know much Kiss history but what's the deal with Peter Criss?