The "luckiest" musicians ever

[Stadler]

Eric Carr was 1000x better than Peter Criss and should be mentioned in the other thread.

Which is the one reason I think Paul had a legit beef against the RaRHoF.  Leaving Eric Carr out was about as blatant a sign that the Hall had no fucking clue about the band or it's history.  That Vince Welnick is considered "integral" to the Dead, but Carr is not to Kiss is just ignorant.  (I feel the same way about Dio and Sabbath, by the way). 

[Stadler]

It's not uncommon in metal, especially for the bass drum, to get an even double kicker, and to give it that metal sound to emulate the production on the studio albums.
For Peter Criss, it was probably their only option to get something usable out of him.

Help me out; I'm not a drummer, and even though I'm a guitar player, I'm not cutting edge on this aspect of technology.   A "trigger" is just an artificial sound made when the stick contacts the drum head, right?  So that the sound isn't made from the pure acoustics of the stick striking head, and reverberating in the shell, it's actually a sound made artificially.   If that's the case, can other members of the band (or a keyboard player backstage, hint hint) hit the triggers too in the event that the primary player misses a cue?

I ask that, because if you read the autobiography, Criss talks about not wanting to be there (he had taken to painting a small tear drop under his eye.  Fucking loser.) and there are vids of the band playing with the drum tech instead of Peter.  That last tour with Aerosmith was almost purely contractual; the promoters wouldn't do the tour with only two original members, and Ace was gone, so Pete was under contract to be there and play for that tour.  He had been known to "sabotage" the show by changing tempos (I tend to believe it wasn't him sabotaging on purpose, but actually not being able to keep up and stay in time, a problem articulated by Bob Ezrin before) and I can see Gene and Paul hedging their bets, especially with Aerosmith on after them (who was EN FUEGO on that tour; they were really at their peak at that point). 

[mikeyd23]

It's not uncommon in metal, especially for the bass drum, to get an even double kicker, and to give it that metal sound to emulate the production on the studio albums.
For Peter Criss, it was probably their only option to get something usable out of him.

Help me out; I'm not a drummer, and even though I'm a guitar player, I'm not cutting edge on this aspect of technology.   A "trigger" is just an artificial sound made when the stick contacts the drum head, right?  So that the sound isn't made from the pure acoustics of the stick striking head, and reverberating in the shell, it's actually a sound made artificially.   If that's the case, can other members of the band (or a keyboard player backstage, hint hint) hit the triggers too in the event that the primary player misses a cue?

I ask that, because if you read the autobiography, Criss talks about not wanting to be there (he had taken to painting a small tear drop under his eye.  Fucking loser.) and there are vids of the band playing with the drum tech instead of Peter.  That last tour with Aerosmith was almost purely contractual; the promoters wouldn't do the tour with only two original members, and Ace was gone, so Pete was under contract to be there and play for that tour.  He had been known to "sabotage" the show by changing tempos (I tend to believe it wasn't him sabotaging on purpose, but actually not being able to keep up and stay in time, a problem articulated by Bob Ezrin before) and I can see Gene and Paul hedging their bets, especially with Aerosmith on after them (who was EN FUEGO on that tour; they were really at their peak at that point).

There's bunch of ways to set up triggers, but basically most of the time it works like this - the most common trigger I see drummers use is on the kick drum, Blob already mentioned why, a lot of bands struggle to replicate studio kick sounds in a live setting so it sounds good and cuts through a mix. Because of that, triggers are used. The trigger is basically a device that works similar to a mic that has been gated. When the trigger recognizes a sound (made by the drummer hitting that particular drum) it makes whatever sound it's programmed to make. Usually, a sound guy will blend the mic and trigger sound together so what the audience is hearing is a mixture of both. The benefit of this is regardless of the velocity the drummer hits, the trigger outputs the same level to the PA.

[Stadler]

Thank you sir!  I learned something new today!

[Prog Snob]

Eric Carr was 1000x better than Peter Criss and should be mentioned in the other thread.

This.

He was one of the only exceptionally talented members in the history of the band. Maybe the only one.

[Lowdz]

Eric Carr was excellent. Gave them a great kick up the ass. Creatures is just immense for a drum sound. Gone too soon and the fuck up Peter Criss is still with us... not that I wish death on him at all.

[Lowdz]

I think you have to include all the members of KISS.
Gene is a poor bassist and terrible singer
Peter was a horrific drummer
Paul can't sing, and is a poor guitarist
Ace was always inconsistent and just slightly above average when he was sober and "on".
Collectively they made it work, and the theatrics sealed the deal. Without that we would never have heard of KISS.
And I was in the damn KISS ARMY! I loved that band, but had to admit they were none of them known for solid musicianship!

Strongly disagree with most of that. Gene has a really good lyrical McCartney-esque style to his bass playing and is known to be really proficient live.
Paul in his prime was one of the best rock singers and his voice held up fairly well up until just recently. He's also a good rhythm guitarist. Like Gene, could really hold it together live despite all the running around and theatrics.
Ace was inconsistent and a pretty mediocre guitarist, but had a real penchant for great melodies in his solos. Prime example of intuition overcoming technical proficiency (or lack thereof).

I do agree on Peter and that the theatrics is what made them famous. Also one of those bands that only worked because of the chemistry between the four guys. Still doesn't make them bad players.

I'm with Mosh. Most of that post was bollocks. Gene's voice is fine and he uses what he has well. His bass playing was cool for not being just your average root note chugging.
Paul Stanley was a great singer, especially in the 80s period. Now his voice has gone. He's old, it happens.
Someone has swallowed the anti KISS bias.

[Stadler]

Eric Carr was 1000x better than Peter Criss and should be mentioned in the other thread.

This.

He was one of the only exceptionally talented members in the history of the band. Maybe the only one.

Bruce Kulick is an excellent guitar player, and Eric Singer likewise on drums.  Add to that one of the greatest front men in the history of rock, and I think you're seriously short shrifting that band.

[King Postwhore]

Vinnie Vincent was very talented but a head case.

Marc St. John was extremely talented but was held back by Gene and Paul and then the tendentious issues.

[Prog Snob]

Eric Carr was 1000x better than Peter Criss and should be mentioned in the other thread.

This.

He was one of the only exceptionally talented members in the history of the band. Maybe the only one.

Bruce Kulick is an excellent guitar player, and Eric Singer likewise on drums.  Add to that one of the greatest front men in the history of rock, and I think you're seriously short shrifting that band.

He might be a "great front man" but he is by no means exceptionally talented.

[BlobVanDam]

Paul Stanley was incredible vocally (not so much now with age and wear), a great composer, only an average guitarist. Still impressive considering how he moved around on stage.
As much as I liked Eric Carr, imo Eric Singer is KISS's best drummer, and a really strong singer to boot. Bruce Kulick was an excellent guitarist who could keep up with the other players of the '80s, but also had the style to hold back, and could still fit the classic rock stuff well too. That Revenge era will always be my favourite. That was a hell of a hard rock band with a lot of talent. Eric Carr should have been put in the HOF with KISS though.

Marc St. John was extremely talented but was held back by Gene and Paul and then the tendentious issues.

I wouldn't say "held back" so much as "reined in". Listen to Animalize, and then realize that's the closest to melody that they could wrangle out of him. What a shocker he had tendonitis issues. Left to his own, he would have been Michaelangelo Batio. Animalize still rocks though. Vinnie Vincent was good, but I actually prefer him for his composing contributions to the band, including a personal favourite, Unholy.

[dtvoices94]

I'd say Vinnie Vincent was the most talented member in KISStory.  His pre-KISS work shows a great sense of melody and some real strong songwriting.  Eric Singer is easily the best drummer they ever had.  Pete was good for a short period and Eric Carr (while one of my favorites) was indistinguishable from the glut of 80's drummers.  Gene is a better bass player than credited and Ace influenced a generation of guitarists.  Paul Stanley has THE most unique voice in rock (look at any KISS tribute band and the weak link is always the Paul).  At his peak, he had power, range, and command.  Now he sounds like an old chain-smoking bingo caller from the neighborhood VFW. 
Speaking of luckiest musicians ever...I forgot Mark St. John but the less said, the better.  He couldn't play the same solo twice and was lost live the few times he actually played.  Thank the stars that Paul reigned him in...left to his own, you'd get garbage like White Tiger (which miraculously appeared while MSJ was in the throes of "reiter's syndrome").

[King Postwhore]

Yeah, you phrased it better than I did.  Agree on everything you wrote Blob and Animalize is my favorite 80's Kiss Album.  Second is Creatures.

[Prog Snob]

Paul Stanley was incredible vocally (not so much now with age and wear), a great composer, only an average guitarist. Still impressive considering how he moved around on stage.
As much as I liked Eric Carr, imo Eric Singer is KISS's best drummer, and a really strong singer to boot. Bruce Kulick was an excellent guitarist who could keep up with the other players of the '80s, but also had the style to hold back, and could still fit the classic rock stuff well too. That Revenge era will always be my favourite. That was a hell of a hard rock band with a lot of talent. Eric Carr should have been pu

Marc St. John was extremely talented but was held back by Gene and Paul and then the tendentious issues.

I wouldn't say "held back" so much as "reined in". Listen to Animalize, and then realize that's the closest to melody that they could wrangle out of him. What a shocker he had tendonitis issues. Left to his own, he would have been Michaelangelo Batio. Animalize still rocks though. Vinnie Vincent was good, but I actually prefer him for his composing contributions to the band, including a personal favourite, Unholy. :metalt in the HOF with KISS though.

His vocal abilities are undeniable, but other than that there was nothing extraordinary about him. Like you said, an average guitarist. He was more a showman than anything. Like David Lee Roth but with better vocal abilities.

[Stadler]

Paul Stanley was incredible vocally (not so much now with age and wear), a great composer, only an average guitarist. Still impressive considering how he moved around on stage.
As much as I liked Eric Carr, imo Eric Singer is KISS's best drummer, and a really strong singer to boot. Bruce Kulick was an excellent guitarist who could keep up with the other players of the '80s, but also had the style to hold back, and could still fit the classic rock stuff well too. That Revenge era will always be my favourite. That was a hell of a hard rock band with a lot of talent. Eric Carr should have been pu

Marc St. John was extremely talented but was held back by Gene and Paul and then the tendentious issues.

I wouldn't say "held back" so much as "reined in". Listen to Animalize, and then realize that's the closest to melody that they could wrangle out of him. What a shocker he had tendonitis issues. Left to his own, he would have been Michaelangelo Batio. Animalize still rocks though. Vinnie Vincent was good, but I actually prefer him for his composing contributions to the band, including a personal favourite, Unholy. :metalt in the HOF with KISS though.

His vocal abilities are undeniable, but other than that there was nothing extraordinary about him. Like you said, an average guitarist. He was more a showman than anything. Like David Lee Roth but with better vocal abilities.

Look, convincing someone of something like this is like convincing someone that soup is cake. It's impossible.  But I think you're way off with Paul.   He carried that band - one of the biggest in the world for a number of years - while Gene was off being Gene.  He wrote well more than half the catalogue, he carried the live shows, he played rock solid rhythm guitar while being the primary showman, and did much of the design work for the band (as well as producing a lot of the post-makeup material).   There are a SHIT TON of people that wish they were as talented as Paul, and wish they could write even one "Detroit Rock City", let alone a couple dozen. 

And no shit, don't mock me here, but he's a hell of a painter (I have a signed Paul Stanley in my living room. "Karma".  It is one of only two or three things I made non-negotiable in my divorce). 

[Stadler]

Personally I think Mark St. John is a joke.  I think there's more to the story than "Reiter's Syndrome" and while I'm sad he's dead, I am not sad at all that he is a footnote in Kiss history.   If I see one more pose of him like this: 


I'm not even sure what that fingering sounds like.   

[rumborak]

That used to be a thing, that guitarists would take promo shots with ridiculous fingerings.

[King Postwhore]

That used to be a thing, that guitarists would take promo shots with ridiculous fingerings.

And the same for Penthouse.

[erwinrafael]

This thread got me listening to my Van Halen records again to focus on Michael Anthony,

He really does not just chug on the root notes.

[Stadler]

That used to be a thing, that guitarists would take promo shots with ridiculous fingerings.

And the same for Penthouse.

Nicely done. 

[Stadler]

This thread got me listening to my Van Halen records again to focus on Michael Anthony,

He really does not just chug on the root notes.

Problem is, it's not always him playing.  Ed played a LOT of bass in Van Halen, especially after the first couple albums.

[DragonAttack]

The luckiest musicians.....

those who played with, and got a bump from

Bob Seger

as well as Ron Wood and Keith Richards

Anyone that had the opportunity to have the musicians from 'The Wrecking Crew' or Muscle Shoals play as session musicians for them.  Those lists are endless+

[DragonAttack]

The end was not the kindest, but put Freddie Mercury on the list of luckiest musicians.  Read his biography, and you would understand my reasoning.  Father has the money and means to get his family out of a bloody revolution in Zanzibar, and moves to London.  His first two or three bands fail, but he starts following a band named 'Smile'.  Tim Staffell grows tired of the band's lack of success soon afterwards.

Brian May and Roger Taylor see 'something' in this guy.  Once onboard,  they wanted to name the band 'Rich Kidz', but Freddie pushes  the name 'Queen'.  With all the connotations, and considering the times, that is one ballsy move.  After a couple of bassists did not work out, a quiet bass player named John Deacon is welcomed aboard.

One could say Brian was lucky to have accepted the 'Ginger Baker style' drummer from the ad placed to get Roger.  Roger was 'lucky' enough to have read the ad, and then been good enough to be accepted by Brian and Tim. 

Sidenotes:  we hosted two South Korean college students a few weekends ago.  For 'American' culture on our last day together, I played about ten tracks from the 'Live at Wembley' DVD.  They both recognized all of the songs, other than the 'sing a long' after 'A Kind of Magic'.  And then they asked to have it played again. [btw, they watched a LOT of football on divisional weekend, at our home and a sports bar].

Two years ago, four Russian guys came to a Megabus to get to NYC.  Problem was, that spot was for Philly.  Their bus was leaving in five minutes.  I kissed my wife, they threw their bags in the trunk, we piled into the car, and I sped the two miles to try and get them there in time.  The 'Live at Milton Keynes' disc was playing in the car, the song being 'Crazy Little Thing Called Love'.  They all went 'Ready, Freddie' at the appropriate time, I got them to the bus 30 seconds before it was going to leave, they handed me what turned out to be around $70 US currency, and we all have a story to tell.

oh, and I got lucky to be married to my wife of 15 years, because of our love of Queen.

geesh, I am rambling.  Guess this part could make for a different thread.

[Xanthul]

Chris Wolstenholme & Dominic Howard.
Same here, both are good musicians, but it's really Bellamy's singing, guitar & piano playing, as well as his songs that make Muse good. I hate to say it, but they could be replaced by any good drummer or bass player, because I wouldn't say their playing is very characteristic. If two complete other guys had formed the band with Matt, I think they would have gained the same success.

Disclaimer: I know next to nothing about Muse, I've only listened to a couple of albums. Tried to get into them many times but they never click for me other than a handful of songs. With all of this I mean I could be way off.

Of these two I think the drummer is the luckiest guy. The bass is certainly recognizable, even if just for the fuzzy tone it often has, but the drums are absolutely terrible. I don't think I've heard a Muse drum fill or pattern that caught my attention and I think I saw parts of a live show once and the drummer didn't look natural on the drums at all. It might have been a bad show or I may be misremembering though.