Author Topic: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)  (Read 9495 times)

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Offline Adami

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2017, 03:54:21 PM »
Also now apparently he's saying that the approval rating poll is rigged against him and is false.


I can see this getting really dangerous if he simply tells everyone that anything that isn't favorable toward him is a lie.
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #36 on: January 17, 2017, 04:22:19 PM »
I can see this getting really dangerous if he simply tells everyone that anything that isn't favorable toward him is a lie.

Well, isn't that just what has been happening all along?
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Offline Adami

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #37 on: January 17, 2017, 07:01:27 PM »
I can see this getting really dangerous if he simply tells everyone that anything that isn't favorable toward him is a lie.

Well, isn't that just what has been happening all along?

Totally. But what a dude running for president does isn't as important as what the president does.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #38 on: January 18, 2017, 08:22:33 AM »
Also now apparently he's saying that the approval rating poll is rigged against him and is false.


I can see this getting really dangerous if he simply tells everyone that anything that isn't favorable toward him is a lie.


Well, the real problem is, of course, that he's not RIGHT, but he's not totally WRONG, either.   There is a decided lack of reasonableness, a decided lack of even-handedness, and a decided preference for shock value over substance.  He's got tidbits of truth backing him up.  Buzzfeed was almost negligent in their desire to by pass sound journalistic practice in order to put damaging information (to Trump) out there.    Yeah, it was roundly debunked, but we've all seen enough Law and Order to know that even when the judge says "Sustained; the jury will disregard that outburst", they can't unring the bell.   

I don't like Trump, I certainly do not like the Twattering (I am vehemently against social media, in case you don't know), but what is he supposed to do?  Let the white wash go unchecked? 

Offline Chino

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #39 on: January 18, 2017, 08:32:37 AM »
Also now apparently he's saying that the approval rating poll is rigged against him and is false.


I can see this getting really dangerous if he simply tells everyone that anything that isn't favorable toward him is a lie.


*snip*

I don't like Trump, I certainly do not like the Twattering (I am vehemently against social media, in case you don't know), but what is he supposed to do?  Let the white wash go unchecked?

He could provide a link or some kind of proof indicating that the numbers are all a sham rather than just declaring "Lies", "Fake news", and "SAD!".

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #40 on: January 18, 2017, 08:33:57 AM »
I don't like Trump, I certainly do not like the Twattering (I am vehemently against social media, in case you don't know), but what is he supposed to do?  Let the white wash go unchecked?

This is how I feel.


He could provide a link or some kind of proof indicating that the numbers are all a sham rather than just declaring "Lies", "Fake news", and "SAD!".

I think it's more along the lines of what he feels is the media's influence on his approval rating.
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #41 on: January 18, 2017, 08:35:55 AM »
He could provide a link or some kind of proof indicating that the numbers are all a sham rather than just declaring "Lies", "Fake news", and "SAD!".

Well....I mean, him being elected President is pretty good evidence on how bunk 'polls' are. It's no secret that near every news outlet despises and has despised the man for some two years now....he faced a heavily biased media as he campaigned and it's not getting any better for him.

I'm not going to sit and defend Trump non stop....but I can see his point when he speaks about the reportage available in today's media.
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #42 on: January 18, 2017, 08:56:50 AM »
I can see his point when he speaks about the reportage available in today's media.

Agreed.  He has proof of this from the election.  I think the truth is somewhere in the middle with all of this.  There is a large amount of unfavorability towards him, but it's probably not as bad as the media makes it out to be.  I mean, everything from Trump so far hasn't been as bad as the media has painted it and Trump has been able to back a lot of this up in the past (such as him winning the election).

Regardless, I wish he would not comment on such things.  Just let them be.  I don't think he needs to do anything to stop the white washing.  His actions should shut people up, not his twitter account. 

Offline XJDenton

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #43 on: January 18, 2017, 09:20:59 AM »
He could provide a link or some kind of proof indicating that the numbers are all a sham rather than just declaring "Lies", "Fake news", and "SAD!".

Well....I mean, him being elected President is pretty good evidence on how bunk 'polls' are.

Not really. The polls were showing he was losing the popular vote by a few percent and had there was enough margin of error in the state polls by election day to give him a reasonable shot at winning the electoral college despite his popular vote deficit. And that's exactly what happened.

Offline RuRoRul

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #44 on: January 18, 2017, 10:00:15 AM »
Thing is, even if the people that believe Trump is sensible or has a point are correct in their interpretation  - we shouldn't be in a position where it takes a bunch of people to "interpret" / "spin" (depending on how you see it) Donald Trump's 140 character, ALL CAPS punctuated Tweets into something that might come close to a sensible point.

If Trump really believed that  "Public approval is lower than it should be right now because Buzzfeed irresponsibly released a document filled with unverified claims, and once all investigations are complete and everyone will be able to see there is nothing there people wil come around", he could say that.

If Trump's point was that "The media's coverage has been unfair and public approval polls are influenced by that", he could tell people that.

If Trump thought that "Polls have been shown to be inaccurate and underestimate my appeal, either because of flawed sampling or because of a climate where people don't like to admit they approve of me", he is free to say that.

But no. All he can say is that a news organisations report on the approval poll's results is "FAKE NEWS! SAD!"

His Twittering is bad from either perspective. For those that believe Trump does have substantive things to say about anything, you should be hoping that he can actually come out and communicate those points properly, rather than appearing to just sling petty Twitter insults at whatever he doesn't like in stilted 140 character bursts.

Offline Adami

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2017, 12:21:05 PM »
Also now apparently he's saying that the approval rating poll is rigged against him and is false.


I can see this getting really dangerous if he simply tells everyone that anything that isn't favorable toward him is a lie.


Well, the real problem is, of course, that he's not RIGHT, but he's not totally WRONG, either.   There is a decided lack of reasonableness, a decided lack of even-handedness, and a decided preference for shock value over substance.  He's got tidbits of truth backing him up.  Buzzfeed was almost negligent in their desire to by pass sound journalistic practice in order to put damaging information (to Trump) out there.    Yeah, it was roundly debunked, but we've all seen enough Law and Order to know that even when the judge says "Sustained; the jury will disregard that outburst", they can't unring the bell.   

I don't like Trump, I certainly do not like the Twattering (I am vehemently against social media, in case you don't know), but what is he supposed to do?  Let the white wash go unchecked?

It's not the government's job to control the media. It's definitely not the President's job to influence it either.

Let the market work it out, right? Won't people decide they want good news and stop supporting the bad places?
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2017, 12:40:04 PM »
Let the market work it out, right? Won't people decide they want good news and stop supporting the bad places?

This is interesting.  I feel like reasonable people want "good news" regardless of the subject of such news.  But that's not what gets the ratings.  News networks have become more entertainment because that's what the market has dictated for these media outlets.  Click bait articles, crazy headlines, left/right extremist commentary... this is what the market has worked out for us for "news".  Now people like myself are extremely skeptical of news because it's becoming tougher to filter out the BS, the entertainment, the opinion vs fact.

Offline Chino

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2017, 12:41:18 PM »
Thing is, even if the people that believe Trump is sensible or has a point are correct in their interpretation  - we shouldn't be in a position where it takes a bunch of people to "interpret" / "spin" (depending on how you see it) Donald Trump's 140 character, ALL CAPS punctuated Tweets into something that might come close to a sensible point.

If Trump really believed that  "Public approval is lower than it should be right now because Buzzfeed irresponsibly released a document filled with unverified claims, and once all investigations are complete and everyone will be able to see there is nothing there people wil come around", he could say that.

If Trump's point was that "The media's coverage has been unfair and public approval polls are influenced by that", he could tell people that.

If Trump thought that "Polls have been shown to be inaccurate and underestimate my appeal, either because of flawed sampling or because of a climate where people don't like to admit they approve of me", he is free to say that.

But no. All he can say is that a news organisations report on the approval poll's results is "FAKE NEWS! SAD!"

His Twittering is bad from either perspective. For those that believe Trump does have substantive things to say about anything, you should be hoping that he can actually come out and communicate those points properly, rather than appearing to just sling petty Twitter insults at whatever he doesn't like in stilted 140 character bursts.

I honestly don't think he's capable of stringing such a statement together. His vocabulary or ability to speak like an adult isn't anywhere near where it should be for such a position. I was reading an interview with him earlier today where he was speaking about having full military presence on display at parades. After revealing his ingenious 2020 campaign slogan and telling his lawyer on air to trademark it, he went into this;
“But I am so confident that we are going to be, it is going to be so amazing. It’s the only reason I give it to you. If I was, like, ambiguous about it, if I wasn’t sure about what is going to happen — the country is going to be great.”

 

Offline Adami

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2017, 12:44:19 PM »
Let the market work it out, right? Won't people decide they want good news and stop supporting the bad places?

This is interesting.  I feel like reasonable people want "good news" regardless of the subject of such news.  But that's not what gets the ratings.  News networks have become more entertainment because that's what the market has dictated for these media outlets.  Click bait articles, crazy headlines, left/right extremist commentary... this is what the market has worked out for us for "news".  Now people like myself are extremely skeptical of news because it's becoming tougher to filter out the BS, the entertainment, the opinion vs fact.

Indeed, so either we have to do the work ourselves and settle for a world with some bad news, or we let the government tell us what is news and what isn't. I'm not so much a fan of the latter idea.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2017, 01:42:42 PM »
Also now apparently he's saying that the approval rating poll is rigged against him and is false.


I can see this getting really dangerous if he simply tells everyone that anything that isn't favorable toward him is a lie.


Well, the real problem is, of course, that he's not RIGHT, but he's not totally WRONG, either.   There is a decided lack of reasonableness, a decided lack of even-handedness, and a decided preference for shock value over substance.  He's got tidbits of truth backing him up.  Buzzfeed was almost negligent in their desire to by pass sound journalistic practice in order to put damaging information (to Trump) out there.    Yeah, it was roundly debunked, but we've all seen enough Law and Order to know that even when the judge says "Sustained; the jury will disregard that outburst", they can't unring the bell.   

I don't like Trump, I certainly do not like the Twattering (I am vehemently against social media, in case you don't know), but what is he supposed to do?  Let the white wash go unchecked?

It's not the government's job to control the media. It's definitely not the President's job to influence it either.

Let the market work it out, right? Won't people decide they want good news and stop supporting the bad places?

Well, I'm a free market guy, but we're mixing apples and oranges here, and so no, I don't think people will decide that.  I think people ARE deciding that they want to hear what reinforces their world view, not a collection of facts that perhaps calls into question what they already believe.   

Look, Jon Stewart wouldn't be "America's most trusted news source" if people wanted "good news". 

I think it's called the "Fourth Estate" for a reason, and like government should be free - or at least removed from - the free market dictates.   I think the old model - where the differentiator was the DELIVERER of the news, not the news itself - works/worked best. 

Offline Adami

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2017, 01:43:59 PM »
And that's all fine and good, but I still don't think it's up to the government or the president to be telling people what news is good and what news is bad, especially when the president is only interested in news that boosts his ego.
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2017, 01:54:21 PM »
Let the market work it out, right? Won't people decide they want good news and stop supporting the bad places?

This is interesting.  I feel like reasonable people want "good news" regardless of the subject of such news.  But that's not what gets the ratings.  News networks have become more entertainment because that's what the market has dictated for these media outlets.  Click bait articles, crazy headlines, left/right extremist commentary... this is what the market has worked out for us for "news".  Now people like myself are extremely skeptical of news because it's becoming tougher to filter out the BS, the entertainment, the opinion vs fact.

Indeed, so either we have to do the work ourselves and settle for a world with some bad news, or we let the government tell us what is news and what isn't. I'm not so much a fan of the latter idea.

I don't know that government has to tell us what is news and what isn't but perhaps there are ways of keeping the Sean Hannity's and Rachel Maddow's of the world a little more honest and transparent.  I realize that Hannity isn't a newscaster per se (if I hear him pompously say "as a Conservative..." one more time before pontificating on something idiotic, I'm going to puke). 

Offline Adami

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2017, 02:04:41 PM »
That's all well and good. However, at no point is it the President's job to tell the people what news to watch and what news to ignore, or what news is real/good, or what news is fake/bad. No matter how much we agree with him, or how much we dislike the news, the most powerful man in the country telling us what is real/fake or good/bad regarding the news is not healthy for the country.
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2017, 11:06:49 AM »
Quote from: nightmare_cinema
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #55 on: January 22, 2017, 11:11:34 AM »
I'm pretty sure someone wrestled his phone away from him to write his last tweet. :lol
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #56 on: January 22, 2017, 11:29:09 AM »
Oh for sure....

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #57 on: January 22, 2017, 11:31:13 AM »
This one?

"Watched protests yesterday but was under the impression that we just had an election! Why didn't these people vote? Celebs hurt cause badly."

Very presidential indeed..
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #58 on: January 22, 2017, 11:42:43 AM »
Probably the one he wrote a couple of hours after that one^^ which definitely dosen't have that special Trump flair:

"Peaceful protests are a hallmark of our democracy. Even if I don't always agree, I recognize the rights of people to express their views."
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Offline Adami

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #59 on: January 22, 2017, 12:38:16 PM »
Probably the one he wrote a couple of hours after that one^^ which definitely dosen't have that special Trump flair:

"Peaceful protests are a hallmark of our democracy. Even if I don't always agree, I recognize the rights of people to express their views."

I like how he points out "even if I don't agree" when the cause is women's rights and equality.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #60 on: January 22, 2017, 01:20:01 PM »
You left out "always."  He didn't say he didn't agree with yesterday's protests. Plenty to blast Trump for without making stuff up or assuming.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #61 on: January 22, 2017, 01:21:46 PM »
Oh I know, but if this were a march that he agreed with, do you really think he'd include that part?
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #62 on: January 22, 2017, 01:24:43 PM »
Probably not, but I don't think it's a good idea to assume.

Besides, Trump's MO with the media is already plain as day.  He will say or do 394 bizarre things a week, which the media will then turn into 844, and Trump can then rip them for exaggerating and/or lying about the 450, while ignoring the 394.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #63 on: January 22, 2017, 01:28:07 PM »
Probably not, but I don't think it's a good idea to assume.

Besides, Trump's MO with the media is already plain as day.  He will say or do 394 bizarre things a week, which the media will then turn into 844, and Trump can then rip them for exaggerating and/or lying about the 450, while ignoring the 394.

Mostly fair point.

At this point, I just look for his twitter posts that are made from 150% ego. Luckily for me, he posts plenty of those as is.
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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #64 on: January 22, 2017, 04:29:11 PM »
I saw this posted today regarding Sean Spicer's role as press secretary:


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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #65 on: January 22, 2017, 04:39:16 PM »
^^^ "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State" - Joseph Goebbels.

I'm not for a second suggesting Trump and Spicer are anywhere near that level, but there are echoes in the methodology.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #66 on: January 23, 2017, 08:54:33 AM »
Oh I know, but if this were a march that he agreed with, do you really think he'd include that part?

Maybe, maybe not, but that's not, as I understand it, what he was responding to.  Context is important.

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #67 on: January 23, 2017, 09:01:53 AM »
^^^ "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State" - Joseph Goebbels.

I'm not for a second suggesting Trump and Spicer are anywhere near that level, but there are echoes in the methodology.

But the RESPONSE to Trump is every bit as reliant on that strategy.  Why imply that HE took down references to LGBT and climate change from the White House website when it wasn't true?   Why, in that piece above, did they WRONGLY imply that all the "non-voters" would be against Trump (whether he won or lost the general election, it wasn't a "2/3 to 1/3 majority".   Clinton won by a couple million Californians, but HER support is only about 1/3 of the population and no assumptions can be made about the remaining 1/3.  It's likely that at least some of them would nominally be pro-Trump. 

I get it, we have to remain diligent, but "suppressing dissent" is only relevant to Goebbels when that dissent is honest, and relevant itself.    Yeah, Trump probably does lie every bit as much as any other politician, but I have never, ever seen this much dishonesty and partisanship in an institution (the fourth estate) that is nominally bipartisan and a-political.  Now CNN is electing to not cover legitimate news, not because of it's truthfulness or relevance, but because of it's CONTENT. WTF?  I know I can get that information elsewhere, but if we're worried so much about ONE PRESIDENT, and his Administration, for one particular trait, why are we not worried about the entire news media for the same exact trait?

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #68 on: January 23, 2017, 09:40:49 AM »
Trump probably does lie every bit as much as any other politician
You are being very generous to Mr. Trump.  He is the lyingest liar I have ever seen.  Most politicians lie when it is beneficial to them, or to cover his ass.  He (and his spokepeople like Conway and Spicer) lie when there is no reason to lie.  They just open their mouths and lie for the sheer hell of it.  To quote our great national poet LL Cool J, "you lied about the lies that you lied about".

but I have never, ever seen this much dishonesty and partisanship in an institution (the fourth estate) that is nominally bipartisan and a-political.  Now CNN is electing to not cover legitimate news, not because of it's truthfulness or relevance, but because of it's CONTENT. WTF?  I know I can get that information elsewhere, but if we're worried so much about ONE PRESIDENT, and his Administration, for one particular trait, why are we not worried about the entire news media for the same exact trait?
What "dishonesty" are you talking about from the media?
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Trump Tweets (sorry Stadler)
« Reply #69 on: January 23, 2017, 10:40:46 AM »
Trump probably does lie every bit as much as any other politician
You are being very generous to Mr. Trump.  He is the lyingest liar I have ever seen.  Most politicians lie when it is beneficial to them, or to cover his ass.  He (and his spokepeople like Conway and Spicer) lie when there is no reason to lie.  They just open their mouths and lie for the sheer hell of it.  To quote our great national poet LL Cool J, "you lied about the lies that you lied about".

but I have never, ever seen this much dishonesty and partisanship in an institution (the fourth estate) that is nominally bipartisan and a-political.  Now CNN is electing to not cover legitimate news, not because of it's truthfulness or relevance, but because of it's CONTENT. WTF?  I know I can get that information elsewhere, but if we're worried so much about ONE PRESIDENT, and his Administration, for one particular trait, why are we not worried about the entire news media for the same exact trait?
What "dishonesty" are you talking about from the media?

There are countless examples.  The "take down" of the White House webpage is one example.  The truncations of quotes is another.   Not 20 minutes ago, my daughter pointed me to a HuffPo article about international aid and abortion, and the sentence was something to the effect that "Trump said during the campaign that 'women that had abortions should be punished'", then later rethought that position (or had someone rethink it for him)."   One, the full context of the quote was ILLEGAL abortions, not ALL abortions, and two, why the need to pontificate and imply that he can't think for himself?  That's both factually dishonest (he didn't say what they said he said) and intellectually dishonest (using that to make an unrelated and unsubstantiated point).