Author Topic: Confirmation Hearings  (Read 668 times)

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Offline TAC

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Confirmation Hearings
« on: January 11, 2017, 08:05:03 PM »
Bosk, I hope I'm not breaking any rules but........................................................................just kidding  ;D



Anyway, I've tried to follow the hearings this week. I'm no expert. But it seems that the two most vocal opponents in their respective hearings are Booker (AG Hearing) and Rubio (SOS). It feels like they are both planting soundbites for their respective Presidential runs.
I feel like it actually undermines their credibility.

Does that make sense?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Online El Barto

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2017, 08:47:25 PM »
Yup. Haven't heard much of Booker, but Rubio certainly sounded like a tool while making Tillerson look quite respectable.
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Online millahh

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2017, 09:04:41 PM »
Didn't see any of it, but Booker acts from conscience, almost to a fault.  While mayor of Newark he actually did rescue someone from a burning building, would help old folks shovel their walks so they could get food, etc.  Complete boy scout, and with a heavy commitment to civil rights.
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Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2017, 05:22:18 AM »
Rubio was an embarrassment and illustrative of why we're in a lot of the mess we're in. His sneering cross-examination basically amounted to this:

Rubio: "Mr Tillerson, do you agree that Vladimir Putin has created a political climate in which people are bullied, intimidated and cajoled into agreeing with everything his government says without looking into it for themselves?"

Tillerson: "I'm not ready to say that yet, I want to see the information for mys..."

Rubio: "Let the record show Mr Tillerson supports dictatorships. Now then Mr Tillerson, on October 4th of last year a child was killed in Syria. Putin's planes did it. Do you therefore now denounce Putin as a war criminal?"

Tillerson: "I'm soon to be Secretary of State which is a huge responsibility, so before making such a serious claim I need to see the intelligence for myse..."

Rubio: "Let the record show Mr Tillerson sees nothing wrong with the slaughter of children. Now then, Mr Tillerson, standing in the park yesterday I was wondering why a Frisbee gets larger the closer it gets. Then it hit me."

Tillerson: "Ha, yeah, that's a good one"

Rubio: "Let the record show that Mr Tillerson was laughing 30 seconds after I told him about Vladimir Putin murdering children"


It was fucking shameful. Tillerson was professional, respectful and composed (as his future position demands, I should add), and for this he was mocked before the world's cameras by Rubio. Rubio came off as a guy who resents that this outsider is entering his hallowed turf of politics.

It also pissed me off (it's a pet peeve of mine when politicians do this) how he played that trick of resignedly saying how little time he had left ("I've only got a minute and a half left"), the implication being that Tillerson had disappointed him and wasted everyone's time by not giving him the 'right' answer at the beginning. Rubio wants to suggest that if only he had had more time he would have got to other matters instead of only being able to read off his own rambling and often incoherent (he cited Putin's approval ratings as evidence for why he carried out the Moscow apartment bombings 45 seconds after suggesting there is no regard paid to public opinion in Russia) list of grievances and theories. It wasn't a hearing for Secretary of State, it was Marco Rubio announcing his 2020 candidacy.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2017, 05:57:01 AM by Dave_Manchester »

Online Chino

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2017, 06:07:04 AM »
I standby every criticism I've ever made toward Rubio.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2017, 07:24:03 AM »
In the past I've expressed support for Rubio, and I won't deny that I honestly thought he would have done better in the primaries (for a while I thought him to be the likely nominee) but I have to say, sorely disappointed with his performance in recent weeks.  I get it, you need to build back your credibility, but this isn't how you do it. 

For all his faults - Trump, I mean, and he has a SHIT ton of faults - isn't it amazing how often, when all the dust settles, he was ultimately more right - as in correct - than people gave him credit for?  "Little Marco".  "Lyin' Ted" (though that one was obvious).  "Criminal Hillary" (also obvious). 

Online mikeyd23

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2017, 07:26:31 AM »
Yeah the Rubio exchange was hard to watch.

I agree with Dave, say what you will about Tillerson but he was extremely professional and composed throughout.

Offline 7th

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2017, 12:37:12 PM »
For all his faults - Trump, I mean, and he has a SHIT ton of faults - isn't it amazing how often, when all the dust settles, he was ultimately more right - as in correct - than people gave him credit for?  "Little Marco".  "Lyin' Ted" (though that one was obvious).  "Criminal Hillary" (also obvious).

Think about all those conversations over on that other forum where people insisted I was wrong, crazy, stupid, ignorant, idiotic, moronic, and just plain deplorable.  Yeah, it's lonely company to be a Trump supporter, but the road less traveled often leads to better places.  :hat
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Offline 7th

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2017, 01:14:00 PM »
Yeah the Rubio exchange was hard to watch.

I agree with Dave, say what you will about Tillerson but he was extremely professional and composed throughout.

I viewed Rubio's involvement and general tone to be a sophomoric attempt to stay in the game.  He's probably not done running for President, and he's got many years left to do so.  For right now it is important for him to establish a record.  If Trump's appointees fail or succeed he'll be able to play both sides down the road.  This is why politicians shouldn't be running things.  They are generally more concerned with politics than actually running things.
"Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin

Online millahh

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2017, 10:09:45 AM »
The bitcoin guy for FDA??  I guess he's just pulling names out of a hat now?
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Online El Barto

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2017, 10:17:12 AM »
I'm just amazed it wasn't Shkreli.
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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2017, 10:31:29 AM »
I'm just amazed it wasn't Shkreli.

Given the fox/henhouse thing that has been going on with most nominations, that wouldn't be entirely surprising.  But, Trump has gone all populist on pharma and them "getting away with murder, and I'm going to stop it".  Not exactly sure how a Silicon Valley guy is going to do that, exactly.  Most of the abuses of the system are by a few companies taking advantage of rules that were designed to make sure that old drugs for certain rare conditions were still being manufactured (w/o certain incentives, there'd be a negative cash flow from them), or from getting creative with patents.

Of course, then there's RFK Jr. being appointed to head whatever vaccine committee that is [/headdesk]
Quote from: parallax
WHEN WILL YOU ADRESS MY MONKEY ARGUMENT???? NEVER???? THAT\' WHAT I FIGURED.:lol

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2017, 12:05:16 PM »
Betsy DeVos:  helped to create this mess in Michigan

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2014/06/22/michigan-spends-1b-on-charter-schools-but-fails-to-hold/77155074/

During the hearings, she cannot distinguish or explain 'growth' and 'proficiency'.  Guess she's never read a 'Teaching 101' handbook.

Says that we need guns in schools to protect against grizzly bears.

One would hope that there are a handful of GOP senators that realize that she is unfit to head Education.  Common sense does.

(don't get me started on Carson, Sessions, the EPA, or Goldman Sachs running the hen house).  A couple of his other picks could work out well, if they stick to what they said during the hearings.

Offline pogoowner

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2017, 01:04:05 PM »
She and her children have also never attended or worked in any public school setting whatsoever, from what I can tell. Tim Kaine had some good questions for her that she was totally unable and/or unwilling to answer.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2017, 02:00:17 PM »
I didn't see hers, so I can't comment on it.  But of the ones I saw - Tillerson, Price, a couple others - much of the "TERROR!" expressed post election by the Democrats is proving to be unfounded.   The EPA guy, for example, under oath said that global warming is NOT a hoax, but merely pointed out that the science to definitively pin a precise percentage on "man made" was not there (as a licensed engineer, and an attorney active in the environmental field for at least two decades, I agree with that position as reasonable).  Sessions said clearly, under oath, that he would support the law of the land, even if he disagreed with it, in stark contrast to Eric Holder, who was an activist Attorney General at times.  And I'll tell you, there are some Democrats who are not even pretending to be civil in these proceedings.  Some are just being assholes.   (Not that there aren't Republicans that are making it stink by fawning over the nominees as if they were in the presence of the Pope.)

Online El Barto

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2017, 11:39:01 AM »
So does anybody really believe these hearings mean anything? It's all for show. The Republicans were never going to shoot down one of Grabby's nominations. They're putting on a play to give the appearance of objectivity, but when it comes down to it they'll fall in line like they always do. With all of the bluster about how "we have some very tough questions and concerns about Mr. Tillerson," the dude could have begun every single answer he gave with "you fargin iceholes" and he'd still get 225 votes. Not an indictment of the GOP in this case. They're just the ones with the power right now.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Online mikeyd23

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2017, 11:52:56 AM »
So does anybody really believe these hearings mean anything? It's all for show.

I've actually always wondered exactly that, to be honest they just seem like a big waste of time.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2017, 12:01:11 PM »
So does anybody really believe these hearings mean anything? It's all for show.

I've actually always wondered exactly that, to be honest they just seem like a big waste of time.

It's all for show. Every President gets to pick their Cabinet. Unless you nominate a Serial Killer there is no reason they shouldn't be confirmed. It's not a Supreme Court Justice situation. They President Elect is putting his 'team' in place to execute the plan that he sold the American public to get elected.

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2017, 12:06:12 PM »
Yeah, but it does seem a little weird that most of the people Trump has nominated for these posts have little to no knowledge about the subject matter the post represents. 

I can see being basically a rubber stamp as long as the nominee has some competence level.  But DeVos apparently doesn't know anything about education other than that she is against public schools, and Rick Perry doesn't know dick about shit about any subject whatsoever.  Energy Secretary?  I mean, I guess he knows that Texas has oil, but I doubt he knows much else.

Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Online El Barto

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2017, 12:17:46 PM »
They'll both have no problem being confirmed, I reckon. Like I've been saying, the only thing that makes in difference anymore are the Rs and the Ds.

On a side note, I think Rick Perry is an idiot. At the same time I think he could do fine with the job. He deserves some credit for shifting Texas from oil into wind and gas.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2017, 12:36:49 PM »
If you say so.  All I know about him is his presence on the national scene, which frankly has not been impressive in any way.

Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Online El Barto

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2017, 12:42:52 PM »
Like I said, the guy's a doofus. But you said he only knows Texas oil, and I think he knew enough about it to know that there are better avenues to pursue in the future.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2017, 12:53:19 PM »
They'll both have no problem being confirmed, I reckon. Like I've been saying, the only thing that makes in difference anymore are the Rs and the Ds.

On a side note, I think Rick Perry is an idiot. At the same time I think he could do fine with the job. He deserves some credit for shifting Texas from oil into wind and gas.

That was well-played, sir.   I salute you. 

Offline Stadler

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2017, 12:57:53 PM »
Yeah, but it does seem a little weird that most of the people Trump has nominated for these posts have little to no knowledge about the subject matter the post represents. 

I can see being basically a rubber stamp as long as the nominee has some competence level.  But DeVos apparently doesn't know anything about education other than that she is against public schools, and Rick Perry doesn't know dick about shit about any subject whatsoever.  Energy Secretary?  I mean, I guess he knows that Texas has oil, but I doubt he knows much else.

Fair points; I have been watching the hearings and haven't seen any of DeVos yet, but have not heard good things.  Having said that, though, you picked two of the worst examples.   The only other one that comes close is Carson.  But Tillerson is hardly "incompetent".  You may not like his politics - though even there, I think you have to reserve judgement based on his actions as CEO; he has a strict mandate as CEO and that doesn't always reflect his personal politics - but he knows what his role is and he knows what's expected of him.  He's had to be that diplomat, in a different context, before.  Again, you may disagree with their politics, but Price and the guy for the head of Intelligence - Coats, I think - know their subject matter, as does the nominee for Secretary of Defense, Mattis. 

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2017, 11:11:49 AM »
I know, that's why I didn't mention them.  Hell, they may do good jobs in their posts, if they are actually allowed to just do the job and not be Trump's yes men.

Yeah, I neglected Carson.  See, if he were nominated for Surgeon General, that would make sense, I suppose.  But HUD?  Come on.

Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2017, 01:46:31 PM »
I'm with you on that.  Not a Carson fan. 

Offline DragonAttack

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2017, 11:59:31 AM »
I helped set up a room for him at Johns Hopkins.

A friend of ours received a small scholarship grant of his a decade ago.

I have read two of his books.

I admired him.

In the last two years, his statements have lead those follow (black and white), to go, 'is he bat sh*t crazy?'

To answer, 'Yes, he is.'

Remember, folks, Obama was worse than Nazi Germany.'

Still got your guns and civil liberties?  I thought so.

Offline chknptpie

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Re: Confirmation Hearings
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2017, 12:30:11 PM »
Say what you will about The Daily Show... but this DS clip made my day for the Ben Carson confirmation hearings
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/boavua/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-ben-carson-s-hud-confirmation-hearing