Author Topic: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia  (Read 1505 times)

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Offline cramx3

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Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« on: January 11, 2017, 09:45:14 AM »
Well since PR is open and I believe Chino was hinting at this in the discussion thread so figured it's best to start a thread on this.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/kenbensinger/these-reports-allege-trump-has-deep-ties-to-russia?utm_term=.gg29EKmk7#.bsn8xm9d3

I don't even know what to believe anymore honestly, I feel like things like this show how poor journalism has become.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 10:46:38 AM by cramx3 »

Offline Stadler

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Re: I have just violated forum rule #1--please ban me Trolling
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2017, 10:25:28 AM »
Well since PR is open and I believe Chino was hinting at this in the discussion thread so figured it's best to start a thread on this.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/kenbensinger/these-reports-allege-trump-has-deep-ties-to-russia?utm_term=.gg29EKmk7#.bsn8xm9d3

I don't even know what to believe anymore honestly, I feel like things like this show how poor journalism has become.

I'm no spy, but that report seems really contrived.   The repeated use of "perverted", the repeated use of "Kremlin", the colloquialisms ("bugged"; the term is "sigops", or "signal operations").    It also is very sloppy how it conflates several different avenues of spycraft into one big "RUSSIA!"    Collecting info on Trump - "perverted" or otherwise - is very different than cultivating relationships with him, and are not even related in terms of the mechanics of the operation.   

Offline Chino

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Re: I have just violated forum rule #1--please ban me Trolling
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2017, 10:28:33 AM »
Yeah, I have absolutely no clue what to make of this. This might be the most shittastic thing to happen so far regarding Trump. Both sides are failing horribly on this matter. On one hand, while media outlets are repeatedly stating this is unverified, they sure are pushing it hard, and on the opposing hand, the best defense has been "see, there's this one guy on I have just violated forum rule #1--please ban me who said he was responsible, FAKE NEWS!". I don't think anyone knows what the fuck is going on at this point.

One thing I know for certain though is that Trump couldn't be handling this worse than he his. His tweets are not cutting it.

@RealDonaldTrump - "Russia has never tried to use leverage over me. I HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RUSSIA - NO DEALS, NO LOANS, NO NOTHING!" I can think of an incredibly easy way for him to prove that wrong, and it begins with 'tax' and ends with 'returns'.

@RealDonaldTrump - "Russia just said the unverified report paid for by political opponents is "A COMPLETE AND TOTAL FABRICATION, UTTER NONSENSE." Very unfair!" I'm not saying I believe this report in any capacity, but let's pretend for a second it is true. If Russia is in fact blackmailing our president elect and holding crippling info over his head, are we really supposed to believe that they'd come out and admit to it? Would Putin really come out and say "Damn, US. You guys are good. You got me. My team has been working in collusion with Trump's team in an attempt to influence your election"?

And the thing is, as crazy as it sounds that Trump would hire a bunch of hookers to piss on a bed Obama slept on, given the way he's acted and led his life up until this point, it's really not that hard to imagine. When the president elect says "Get even with people. If they screw you screw them back ten times as hard. I really believe that", he comes off as petty. He comes off like a person who not only has to feel victorious, but do so in such a way that trumps all others. It's like he's got this fascination with being the greatest alpha male to have ever lived, regardless what he needs to do to feel that way.

Offline cramx3

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Re: I have just violated forum rule #1--please ban me Trolling
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2017, 10:37:52 AM »
My first read of that was "well this is actually plausible" given the nature of Trump.

But what I find troubling is that people hate Trump so much that they will run with these reports most likely because they want them to be true, without caring to prove it to be true.  It's amazing that a I have just violated forum rule #1--please ban me joke could end up in the president's hands and taken seriously.  Something is so terribly wrong with our country  :facepalm:

Offline El Barto

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Re: Buzzfeed trolling Trump
« Reply #4 on: January 11, 2017, 10:39:11 AM »
The fact is, as long as he continues to behave like the idiot man-child he is, people will continue to troll him. I honestly can't fathom how people aren't riling him up three times daily just for the lulz. This is a non-event. The media has to report it because of the potential ramifications and then it blows over because it's mostly likely complete nonsense. This sort of thing happens all the time.  As long as he's going to fulfill his base need to always get in the last word these sorts of things will always be a problem or him.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 10:43:57 AM by bosk1 »
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Offline cramx3

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Re: I have just violated forum rule #1--please ban me Trolling
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2017, 10:42:16 AM »
The fact is, as long as he continues to behave like the idiot man-child he is, people will continue to troll him. I honestly can't fathom how people aren't riling him up three times daily just for the lulz. This is a non-event. The media has to report it because of the potential ramifications and then it blows over because it's mostly likely complete nonsense. This sort of thing happens all the time.  As long as he's going to fulfill his base need to always get in the last word these sorts of things will always be a problem or him.

But they didn't troll Trump, they trolled the Rick Wilson, although I agree with what you are saying.  Trump's tweets alone leave plenty of avenues open for trolling and whatnot.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Buzzfeed trolling Trump
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2017, 10:43:20 AM »
Okay, here's the issue.  That site violates forum rules and should not be mentioned here at all.  Dropping the name in a thread as typically been grounds for an immediate ban (hence the forum autocorrect highlighting and changing it in the post titles).  Given that P/R is supposed to be more mature, grown-up discussion, and since the name is being explicitly mentioned in the news in connection with the story, I will allow it being used for that limited purpose in the discussion.  I edited it out of the thread titles.  Please keep it that way.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Buzzfeed trolling Trump
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2017, 10:44:57 AM »
The fact is, as long as he continues to behave like the idiot man-child he is, people will continue to troll him. I honestly can't fathom how people aren't riling him up three times daily just for the lulz. This is a non-event. The media has to report it because of the potential ramifications and then it blows over because it's mostly likely complete nonsense. This sort of thing happens all the time.  As long as he's going to fulfill his base need to always get in the last word these sorts of things will always be a problem or him.

But they didn't troll Trump, they trolled the Rick Wilson, although I agree with what you are saying.  Trump's tweets alone leave plenty of avenues open for trolling and whatnot.

Correct...which I suppose makes my edited thread title misleading as well.  Feel free to change it.  Just be mindful of my prior post on the subject.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Buzzfeed trolling Trump
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2017, 10:46:06 AM »
Okay, here's the issue.  That site violates forum rules and should not be mentioned here at all.  Dropping the name in a thread as typically been grounds for an immediate ban (hence the forum autocorrect highlighting and changing it in the post titles).  Given that P/R is supposed to be more mature, grown-up discussion, and since the name is being explicitly mentioned in the news in connection with the story, I will allow it being used for that limited purpose in the discussion.  I edited it out of the thread titles.  Please keep it that way.

Ah, I thought that title was due to the PR re-opening.  Totally wasn't trying to bring attention to that site, just that it is part of the news story relating to the political news.  I apologize and sadly that is poor timing given the re-opening of the section.

Offline Chino

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2017, 11:10:11 AM »
The twitter account of the poster from the site that must not be named has gone offline/been deleted.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2017, 11:13:52 AM »
What's the difference between a chickpea and a garbanzo bean?

Trump's never had a garbanzo bean on his face.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2017, 11:18:54 AM »
The "story" is so obviously fake that it's hard to fathom anyone who understands how these things work thinking otherwise.  But to me, the more fascinating issue is what will happen in the cyber world moving forward.  What I mean is, that site that shall not be named is now going to be on the President's radar.  That means that they are also going to be on the radar of the intelligence community and other parts of many governments.  If some sort of power struggle between Site and government eventually were to crystalize, who wins and who loses?  And what do "winning" and "losing" look like in that scenario?  :corn
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2017, 11:22:05 AM »
I think, if you take into consideration everything that has transpired throughout this entire election cycle and likely will in the next four years, the only logical conclusion to arrive at is that everybody loses.

Offline Chino

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2017, 11:25:28 AM »
The "story" is so obviously fake. 

Why do you say that?

Offline cramx3

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2017, 11:27:57 AM »
The "story" is so obviously fake that it's hard to fathom anyone who understands how these things work thinking otherwise.  But to me, the more fascinating issue is what will happen in the cyber world moving forward.  What I mean is, that site that shall not be named is now going to be on the President's radar.  That means that they are also going to be on the radar of the intelligence community and other parts of many governments.  If some sort of power struggle between Site and government eventually were to crystalize, who wins and who loses?  And what do "winning" and "losing" look like in that scenario?  :corn

I'm kind of shocked that site isn't already on the CIA/FBI radar (well maybe it is). 

The "story" is so obviously fake. 

Why do you say that?

I'm not totally sold on it being real or fake.  I am just so lost as to what to believe anymore.  It seems everything can be manipulated too easily.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2017, 11:32:08 AM »
They were most assuredly already on the radar of the intelligence community. The intelligence community would have known what they were and how they worked and relegated them to the mostly harmless category.  What wouldn't surprise me is if Trump's DOJ ups the ante making them far more than what they actually are. Grabby's immaturity leads me to think he's the sort of guy that'd stomp the living shit out of a class of 3rd graders for making fun of his hair, so declaring war on these nimrods seems a pretty likely outcome. Can't see how that's beneficial, but it's hardly concerning to me.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2017, 11:35:22 AM »
The "story" is so obviously fake. 

Why do you say that?

I'm not totally sold on it being real or fake.  I am just so lost as to what to believe anymore.  It seems everything can be manipulated too easily.

This is where I'm at. Outside of the picture below floating around, I haven't really seen anything that disputes it.

*Bosk* Please don't ban, I'm just going off of " since the name is being explicitly mentioned in the news in connection with the story, I will allow it". Apologies if this is over the line.



Who knows, maybe our intelligence agencies are truly this shitty, but it's almost unbelievable that such a document, if fake, got so far through the chain of command and ultimately ended up leaking. And if this was on that site that can't be named, I would imagine that the combined resources of our intelligence agencies would have found its origin in a search.

Offline Chino

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2017, 11:44:36 AM »
They were most assuredly already on the radar of the intelligence community. The intelligence community would have known what they were and how they worked and relegated them to the mostly harmless category.  What wouldn't surprise me is if Trump's DOJ ups the ante making them far more than what they actually are. Grabby's immaturity leads me to think he's the sort of guy that'd stomp the living shit out of a class of 3rd graders for making fun of his hair, so declaring war on these nimrods seems a pretty likely outcome. Can't see how that's beneficial, but it's hardly concerning to me.

It most definitely was already on the radar. So much fucked up shit goes through that site on a daily basis, I feel like law enforcement agencies would be foolish not to keep an eye on it for red flags. I remember a few years ago a guy on there live streamed himself setting fire to his room in an attempt to kill himself. People tuned in and encouraged it. My guess is that Grabby will go after Buzzfeed before this site.

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2017, 11:48:45 AM »
Who knows, maybe our intelligence agencies are truly this shitty, but it's almost unbelievable that such a document, if fake, got so far through the chain of command and ultimately ended up leaking. And if this was on that site that can't be named, I would imagine that the combined resources of our intelligence agencies would have found its origin in a search.

I *think* people hate Trump so much that they didn't care to do the due diligence of checking the legitimacy of the story, they see a juicy story (and heck, even I admit it sounds plausible considering Trump) and run with it.  They put a little * saying it's unverified, but doesn't stop them presenting it because it allows people to continue their hatred of Trump.  But it's not just the media here, it's our own intelligence agency doing the same thing and I think it all stems from hatred of Trump and wanting there to be this huge scandal that they will believe the BS and the fact that it was Rick Wilson who was trolled shows that.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2017, 11:59:30 AM »
The "story" is so obviously fake. 

Why do you say that?

Because: (1) All the major news outlets have had this "story" for months and didn't run it because they knew it wasn't corroborated; (2) Several have gone on record as saying it is uncorroborated; (3) We in fact know with reasonable certainty what the source of the "story" is; and (4) There is too much outlandish stuff in there that doesn't stand a chance of having actually happened.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2017, 12:01:11 PM »
Holy f*** I feel like my dad when I showed him my first Kiss album.  I have NO IDEA what you people are talking about?  What site?  Why is it against forum rules?  What site is under government review, and why?

The actual report, I've already said why it's fake; that's just not how intelligence reports are written. They don't make subjective assessments like "perverted".  They don't talk about specific processes like "bugged" (that's a colloquialism that doesn't make sense at the operational level, and probably does more damage than good in terms of exposing processes and spycraft).   

I would imagine that there IS a British spy somewhere, there IS a report somewhere, it's just that that isn't it.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2017, 12:03:09 PM »
They were most assuredly already on the radar of the intelligence community. The intelligence community would have known what they were and how they worked and relegated them to the mostly harmless category.  What wouldn't surprise me is if Trump's DOJ ups the ante making them far more than what they actually are. Grabby's immaturity leads me to think he's the sort of guy that'd stomp the living shit out of a class of 3rd graders for making fun of his hair, so declaring war on these nimrods seems a pretty likely outcome. Can't see how that's beneficial, but it's hardly concerning to me.
Of course they were already on their radar.  It's the "upping the ante" part that I was more talking about.  There's a difference between being watched and being targeted. 

I mean, what if, say, the Trump administration goes after them, barrels blazin'?  Maybe the site gets shut down.  Maybe there are other consequences.  But I would venture a guess that you'd have some individuals who are skilled at hiding themselves and skilled at real Internet mischief that decide they don't like that and decide to retaliate.  And let's say Anon decides they don't like what the government is doing in going after that site, and decides to go on the offensive themselves?  There could be serious havoc.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2017, 12:08:34 PM by bosk1 »
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2017, 12:12:24 PM »
They were most assuredly already on the radar of the intelligence community. The intelligence community would have known what they were and how they worked and relegated them to the mostly harmless category.  What wouldn't surprise me is if Trump's DOJ ups the ante making them far more than what they actually are. Grabby's immaturity leads me to think he's the sort of guy that'd stomp the living shit out of a class of 3rd graders for making fun of his hair, so declaring war on these nimrods seems a pretty likely outcome. Can't see how that's beneficial, but it's hardly concerning to me.
Of course they were already on their radar.  It's the "upping the ante" part that I was more talking about.  There's a difference between being watched and being targeted.
I suspect the targeting was inevitable anyway. The erosion of safe harbour and the fact that cyber laws are written by 70 year old elitists make that inevitable.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2017, 12:15:33 PM »
They were most assuredly already on the radar of the intelligence community. The intelligence community would have known what they were and how they worked and relegated them to the mostly harmless category.  What wouldn't surprise me is if Trump's DOJ ups the ante making them far more than what they actually are. Grabby's immaturity leads me to think he's the sort of guy that'd stomp the living shit out of a class of 3rd graders for making fun of his hair, so declaring war on these nimrods seems a pretty likely outcome. Can't see how that's beneficial, but it's hardly concerning to me.
Of course they were already on their radar.  It's the "upping the ante" part that I was more talking about.  There's a difference between being watched and being targeted.
I suspect the targeting was inevitable anyway. The erosion of safe harbour and the fact that cyber laws are written by 70 year old elitists make that inevitable.
You are probably right.  But the thing is, we may very well have now arrived at the point where hypothetical inevitability becomes reality.  And we may see that reality unfold in a very ugly way.
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Offline Implode

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2017, 12:26:13 PM »
Holy f*** I feel like my dad when I showed him my first Kiss album.  I have NO IDEA what you people are talking about?  What site?  Why is it against forum rules?  What site is under government review, and why?

The site is an 18+ image board where all posts are made anonymously. It's separated into many independent boards focusing on several topics varying from finance, to cartoons, fashion, to fetish pornography. The latter is one of the main reasons it's against forum rules to name drop. We can't lead to pornography sites. Totally understandable.

The site's been around for a little over 10 years now I think, and it's been a facet and breeding place for internet culture. It's responsible for many of the memes or internet jokes we know. It also is known for being the home of "Anonymous", the group of ameture hackers deemed as internet torrorists by Fox years ago. Also, since all posts are made anonymously, it obviously brings out the worst in people. There are sections of the site full of openly racist/sexist/disgusting people. It's a mess of a place, and every once in a while, things posted there make the news.

Tl;dr: you'll never see a more wretched hive of scum and villainy.

Edit: hopefully this doesn't break the rules. If so, I'll delete it. But I thought it'd be important to provide some context.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2017, 12:31:14 PM »
They were most assuredly already on the radar of the intelligence community. The intelligence community would have known what they were and how they worked and relegated them to the mostly harmless category.  What wouldn't surprise me is if Trump's DOJ ups the ante making them far more than what they actually are. Grabby's immaturity leads me to think he's the sort of guy that'd stomp the living shit out of a class of 3rd graders for making fun of his hair, so declaring war on these nimrods seems a pretty likely outcome. Can't see how that's beneficial, but it's hardly concerning to me.
Of course they were already on their radar.  It's the "upping the ante" part that I was more talking about.  There's a difference between being watched and being targeted.
I suspect the targeting was inevitable anyway. The erosion of safe harbour and the fact that cyber laws are written by 70 year old elitists make that inevitable.
You are probably right.  But the thing is, we may very well have now arrived at the point where hypothetical inevitability becomes reality.  And we may see that reality unfold in a very ugly way.
I'm certainly curious to see how it plays out, but I resigned myself 6 months ago to seeing the internet fucked up rather severely over the next two years. Neither Grabby nor Hillary give a damn about privacy, nor to they care about the underlying bases for what makes things work. Trump because of a shallowness of mind and Hillary because of ego. Both would seek an immediate solution to a singular problem, disregarding the complexities entirely. If it's not an imageboard it'll be some other site that allows users to do questionable things and shutdowns will occur.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2017, 12:32:01 PM »
They were most assuredly already on the radar of the intelligence community. The intelligence community would have known what they were and how they worked and relegated them to the mostly harmless category.  What wouldn't surprise me is if Trump's DOJ ups the ante making them far more than what they actually are. Grabby's immaturity leads me to think he's the sort of guy that'd stomp the living shit out of a class of 3rd graders for making fun of his hair, so declaring war on these nimrods seems a pretty likely outcome. Can't see how that's beneficial, but it's hardly concerning to me.
Of course they were already on their radar.  It's the "upping the ante" part that I was more talking about.  There's a difference between being watched and being targeted. 

I mean, what if, say, the Trump administration goes after them, barrels blazin'?  Maybe the site gets shut down.  Maybe there are other consequences.  But I would venture a guess that you'd have some individuals who are skilled at hiding themselves and skilled at real Internet mischief that decide they don't like that and decide to retaliate.  And let's say Anon decides they don't like what the government is doing in going after that site, and decides to go on the offensive themselves?  There could be serious havoc.

As shown with other illegal sites, once the government shuts them down they will just spring up somewhere else. I don't think that website really did anything that alarming here though.  And I don't see any reason for Trump to go after that website, I'm sure he will rip Buzzfeed though, but it almost seems like the website we are talking about was actually trying to help Trump in a way by de-legitimizing the current intelligent agencies and creating even more question marks around Trump and Russia that just muddies the water even more.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #27 on: January 11, 2017, 12:35:54 PM »
Side rant/pet peeve:  I really don't get when people post, "I hope this doesn't break the rules, but here goes..."  Really??  If you aren't sure, it isn't hard to ask.  Then you don't have to hope.  You will know.  If it DOES break the rules, or if it is so borderline that even I'm not sure if it does, you will have pissed me off by not asking and just posting, and by highlighting the fact that you suspected it might break the rules, and I will be MORE inclined to boot you off the site.  If you think it might get you in trouble, just ask.  Don't just post it and think a disclaimer will get you off.  /rant

Anyhow, back on topic, that's fine.  The explanation is helpful.  Plus, you didn't name the site or drop hints about where to find it.  Describing why the content is a problem and a violation of our rules here is fine, even if not for the disclaimer I made above in the thread.  But let's be careful about not getting into too much unnecessary detail about the site.  Focus on the story itself, please.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #28 on: January 11, 2017, 12:43:29 PM »
As shown with other illegal sites, once the government shuts them down they will just spring up somewhere else.

Yes, but that site is different.  And its user base is different.  And while the vast majority of its users are likely harmless or easily neutralized, I think it is likely that they have a few users who have the capability to cause REAL trouble and/or who have affiliations with those who do.

I don't think that website really did anything that alarming here though.  And I don't see any reason for Trump to go after that website, I'm sure he will rip Buzzfeed though, but it almost seems like the website we are talking about was actually trying to help Trump in a way by de-legitimizing the current intelligent agencies and creating even more question marks around Trump and Russia that just muddies the water even more.

Yes, but I'm not sure Trump gets it.  And even if he does, now that that site has his attention, he could conclude for other reasons that they are dangerous and should be targeted.  I think you underestimate that we could very well be on the verge of really seeing the hornet's nest getting kicked.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #29 on: January 11, 2017, 12:45:13 PM »
They were most assuredly already on the radar of the intelligence community. The intelligence community would have known what they were and how they worked and relegated them to the mostly harmless category.  What wouldn't surprise me is if Trump's DOJ ups the ante making them far more than what they actually are. Grabby's immaturity leads me to think he's the sort of guy that'd stomp the living shit out of a class of 3rd graders for making fun of his hair, so declaring war on these nimrods seems a pretty likely outcome. Can't see how that's beneficial, but it's hardly concerning to me.
Of course they were already on their radar.  It's the "upping the ante" part that I was more talking about.  There's a difference between being watched and being targeted. 

I mean, what if, say, the Trump administration goes after them, barrels blazin'?  Maybe the site gets shut down.  Maybe there are other consequences.  But I would venture a guess that you'd have some individuals who are skilled at hiding themselves and skilled at real Internet mischief that decide they don't like that and decide to retaliate.  And let's say Anon decides they don't like what the government is doing in going after that site, and decides to go on the offensive themselves?  There could be serious havoc.

As shown with other illegal sites, once the government shuts them down they will just spring up somewhere else. I don't think that website really did anything that alarming here though.  And I don't see any reason for Trump to go after that website, I'm sure he will rip Buzzfeed though, but it almost seems like the website we are talking about was actually trying to help Trump in a way by de-legitimizing the current intelligent agencies and creating even more question marks around Trump and Russia that just muddies the water even more.
Sometimes that's true and others not so much. If you just make up an excuse to shut a site down then yes, it'll probably pop up elsewhere. If you make up an excuse to toss the owner in prison that changes things. If you attack the underlying principle that allows such sites to exist at all, then that has major downstream consequences. In this case the so-called illegal sites might just pop up elsewhere, but the perfectly valid sites that operate under the same principle might decide that it's just not worth the risk.

And calling a site illegal in this context is dubious, at best.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #30 on: January 11, 2017, 12:50:34 PM »
They were most assuredly already on the radar of the intelligence community. The intelligence community would have known what they were and how they worked and relegated them to the mostly harmless category.  What wouldn't surprise me is if Trump's DOJ ups the ante making them far more than what they actually are. Grabby's immaturity leads me to think he's the sort of guy that'd stomp the living shit out of a class of 3rd graders for making fun of his hair, so declaring war on these nimrods seems a pretty likely outcome. Can't see how that's beneficial, but it's hardly concerning to me.
Of course they were already on their radar.  It's the "upping the ante" part that I was more talking about.  There's a difference between being watched and being targeted. 

I mean, what if, say, the Trump administration goes after them, barrels blazin'?  Maybe the site gets shut down.  Maybe there are other consequences.  But I would venture a guess that you'd have some individuals who are skilled at hiding themselves and skilled at real Internet mischief that decide they don't like that and decide to retaliate.  And let's say Anon decides they don't like what the government is doing in going after that site, and decides to go on the offensive themselves?  There could be serious havoc.

As shown with other illegal sites, once the government shuts them down they will just spring up somewhere else. I don't think that website really did anything that alarming here though.  And I don't see any reason for Trump to go after that website, I'm sure he will rip Buzzfeed though, but it almost seems like the website we are talking about was actually trying to help Trump in a way by de-legitimizing the current intelligent agencies and creating even more question marks around Trump and Russia that just muddies the water even more.
Sometimes that's true and others not so much. If you just make up an excuse to shut a site down then yes, it'll probably pop up elsewhere. If you make up an excuse to toss the owner in prison that changes things. If you attack the underlying principle that allows such sites to exist at all, then that has major downstream consequences. In this case the so-called illegal sites might just pop up elsewhere, but the perfectly valid sites that operate under the same principle might decide that it's just not worth the risk.

And calling a site illegal in this context is dubious, at best.

Hehe.  You said doobie.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #31 on: January 11, 2017, 01:40:25 PM »
Agreed on the term illegal being dubious in this context, in my mind I had a certain website I was describing which is pretty much illegal and has constantly been shut down by certain governments only to pop up somewhere else. 

But I guess I didn't see the bigger picture that you both are painting which makes sense and is sad if it comes to that.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #32 on: January 11, 2017, 02:28:30 PM »
It's a trap!
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #33 on: January 11, 2017, 02:32:17 PM »
Thankee-sai

Offline Adami

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Re: Buzzfeed article on Trump/Russia
« Reply #34 on: January 11, 2017, 02:36:55 PM »
Can't spell entrapment with out trap.
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