MP's Shattered Fortress Tour

[pogoowner]

If you're playing DT songs, there is not a single guitar that makes more sense than one of the JP models. Also, they're good guitars. I played one at Guitar Center a few weeks ago and it kicked ass.

[Mosh]

Haken guys are almost certainly doing it as homage to Petrucci. They haven't used the JP models in Haken since the Visions era iirc.

[bill1971]

It is NOT a DT cover band!
He wrote ALL the music
ALL the arrangements
ALMOST ALL of the producing
ALL the drum parts
ALL the lyrics


 

[KevShmev]

I don't see the issue with the guitarists using a JP model guitar.  I mean, really?

[JayOctavarium]

re: them using JP model guitars...


I think it was done kind of a tribute to JP, but also as Arich said, it was probably more fitting to play it on the JP 7 strings than their usual 8 strings.


Why the hell is this even an issue?


It's not like Conner was playing a Bongo.

[Adami]

I'm now really wishing they all went full DT.

I want to see three people dressed as JP on stage, with muscle suits and all.

[ToT-147]

It is NOT a DT cover band!
He wrote ALL the music
ALL the arrangements
ALMOST ALL of the producing
ALL the drum parts
ALL the lyrics


 

Hi Mike..

I'm now really wishing they all went full DT.

I want to see three people dressed as JP on stage, with muscle suits and all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC9ww4Z-Qa8

[JayOctavarium]

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC9ww4Z-Qa8

Saw these guys a few years ago. Really fun show. The guys are really chill. I've ran into them at several DT shows since, as well as at NAMM.

[bill1971]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=882603868514784&id=357114014397108&refsrc=https%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2Fdreamtheatertribute%2Fvideos%2F882603868514784%2F&_rdr

Thanks for that link to systematic chaos. On the youtube comments someone put this link. Funny to hear MM acknowledge that people criticize him.

[gmillerdrake]

\
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AC9ww4Z-Qa8

Saw these guys a few years ago. Really fun show. The guys are really chill. I've ran into them at several DT shows since, as well as at NAMM.

Sounds good but those wigs 

[Madman Shepherd]

I don't see the issue with the guitarists using a JP model guitar.  I mean, really?

Well it is a little weird. It's not like that model is as common as a Les Paul or even an SG. Imagine if Ozzy's guitarists used a Tony Iommi signature model with the crosses on the fret board or if Tommy Thayer played an Ace signature Les Paul with the three pickups. As it stands Thayer plays a regular Les Paul...then again hes already copying the makeup and costume so maybe he should just go all out.

Anyway, I'm sure Petrucci's guitar is badass and perfect for this occasion but it is a tiny bit weird. Probably petty to think so but whatevs.

[Elite]

If you're playing DT songs, there is not a single guitar that makes more sense than one of the JP models.

I disagree. A lot.

[Kotowboy]

JP Music Man > > > Ugly multi coloured super strat ibanez.


I've always thought Ibanez RG guitars were vile. Not Ibanez as a whole. I had a Les Paul inspired one in 2009 and it was awesome.

[axeman90210]

I mean I might think it was weird if they went out to get JP model guitars just for these gigs, but if you already have one and you're going to be playing Dream Theater music then why wouldn't you...

[Elite]

Oh, absolutely. I am not disputing that at all, though it's kind of weird to see the Haken guys play on the JP guitars. I haven't seen them do that since 2010; maybe Richard Henshall has, but Charlie Griffiths has been playing 8-stringed guitars since the Visions tours. By all means, they're going to need a 7-string guitar to play the 12SS, so they might just as well do it on their JP models.

What I am disputing though, is the idea that in order to play DT material, the JP model would be the 'best' to get the job done. That claim is pretty ludicrous, and untrue as well. There's tons of guitars and makes that are just as 'good' (if not better) than the JP model. I'm not saying they're bad guitars, because they most likely aren't (I've never played them), but a guitar is a guitar and lots of other 7-strings can get the job done. JP's tone comes mostly from his amps, which are Mesa/Boogie make (JP even has his own signature amp, the Mesa/Boogie JP-2C). I'm pretty sure the Haken guys use Fractal Axe-FX exclusively, which isn't even an analog amp like the M/B is (I'm not judging, merely pointing out differences).

That said, I do not think they actively thought of literally imitating Dream Theater, since they are, for the most part, using different gear to replicate DT's sound, although they are essentially a DT cover band at this point. Them using JP guitars doesn't matter one bit to me.





In other news, I just got a ticket for the show in 013 (Tilburg, the Netherlands) to see this thing myself.

[axeman90210]

I'm really hoping Mike's able to pull together a NYC show since ProgPower isn't in the cards for me.

[rumborak]

ITT comment that playing a JP guitar looks silly, because the guitarist usually plays an 8-string

[Elite]

ITT comment that playing a JP guitar looks silly, because the guitarist usually plays an 8-string

Have you actually read beyond the first two lines of what I wrote, before commenting smugly?

[cramx3]

I'm really hoping Mike's able to pull together a NYC show since ProgPower isn't in the cards for me.

Im surprised he doesn't have a hometown date for this.

[axeman90210]

I'm really hoping Mike's able to pull together a NYC show since ProgPower isn't in the cards for me.

Im surprised he doesn't have a hometown date for this.

I saw him say that he was trying to put one on, guess it's a matter of getting a promoter on board.

[rumborak]

ITT comment that playing a JP guitar looks silly, because the guitarist usually plays an 8-string

Have you actually read beyond the first two lines of what I wrote, before commenting smugly?

My point is actually that 8-string guitars are far more silly than any JP guitar could ever be.

[Adami]

ITT comment that playing a JP guitar looks silly, because the guitarist usually plays an 8-string

Have you actually read beyond the first two lines of what I wrote, before commenting smugly?

My point is actually that 8-string guitars are far more silly than any JP guitar could ever be.

Even JPs new 8 string?

[Skeever]

If you're playing DT songs, there is not a single guitar that makes more sense than one of the JP models. Also, they're good guitars. I played one at Guitar Center a few weeks ago and it kicked ass.

Well an Ibanez Prestige if you are talking the first 4 albums 

[rumborak]

ITT comment that playing a JP guitar looks silly, because the guitarist usually plays an 8-string

Have you actually read beyond the first two lines of what I wrote, before commenting smugly?

My point is actually that 8-string guitars are far more silly than any JP guitar could ever be.

Even JPs new 8 string?

Absolutely. To me 8-strings have the same status as fretless guitars, or double-necked ones. Fun for the occasional gimmick tune, sure, but not much more.

[WheyWaffles]

If you're playing DT songs, there is not a single guitar that makes more sense than one of the JP models.

I disagree. A lot.

Non-guitarists and amateur guitarists who subscribe to a lot of silly guitar lore don't quite realize how simple electric guitars are. Like you said later, it's mostly the amp responsible for the tone. It might seem like conventional wisdom that a JP model is the way to sound like JP, but the truth is some medium-high gain pickups (of which Petrucci has used many over the years), 7 strings, 24 frets, floating trem, maybe piezo for some occasions will get you close enough to one of the dozens of tones JP has recorded over the decades to reproduce his playing live to the satisfaction of all but the most pedantic nerds. If they were using JP guitars to best mimic his tone, I suppose all of Mike's three guitarists should have been using Triaxis, Dual Rectifier, Mark IIC+, Mark IV, or Mark V depending on the song to produce those exact album tones as well. Similarly I doubt all three guitarists had stereo rigs to simulate JP's soundstage-widening offset trick. If any were using modelers, I can promise they weren't modeling JP's studio amps on a per-song basis to achieve maximum accuracy.

Regarding 8-strings, they're hardly silly unless you're primarily using them to shit allover the bass player's already narrow share of the frequency spectrum... Which is the case more often than not sadly. When exploited in that way they're vile indeed.

I'm going to assume for consistency's sake that anyone with a general problem with 8-strings is not a fan of Panic Attack.

[pogoowner]

If you're playing DT songs, there is not a single guitar that makes more sense than one of the JP models.

I disagree. A lot.

Non-guitarists and amateur guitarists who subscribe to a lot of silly guitar lore don't quite realize how simple electric guitars are. Like you said later, it's mostly the amp responsible for the tone. It might seem like conventional wisdom that a JP model is the way to sound like JP, but the truth is some medium-high gain pickups (of which Petrucci has used many over the years), 7 strings, 24 frets, floating trem, maybe piezo for some occasions will get you close enough to one of the dozens of tones JP has recorded over the decades to reproduce his playing live to the satisfaction of all but the most pedantic nerds. If they were using JP guitars to best mimic his tone, I suppose all of Mike's three guitarists should have been using Triaxis, Dual Rectifier, Mark IIC+, Mark IV, or Mark V depending on the song to produce those exact album tones as well. Similarly I doubt all three guitarists had stereo rigs to simulate JP's soundstage-widening offset trick. If any were using modelers, I can promise they weren't modeling JP's studio amps on a per-song basis to achieve maximum accuracy.

Well of course you can mimic JP's tone with other guitars. But these guys already own JP models.

[rumborak]

That's what this is really. They're all DT fans anyway, so at some point they bought JP guitars, also because they are excellenty built guitars. So when they were asked to play this, why would they not use the guitar that gives them the best chance of sounding good?

[King Postwhore]

Rumbo, I've talked to Charlie from Haken about his love of DT and how he saw them on the I&W tour at Marque Club.

[Elite]

That's what this is really. They're all DT fans anyway, so at some point they bought JP guitars, also because they are excellenty built guitars. So when they were asked to play this, why would they not use the guitar that gives them the best chance of sounding good?

Because the guitar doesn't do a whole lot to the overall tone to make it 'sound good'.

[Kwyjibo]

That's what this is really. They're all DT fans anyway, so at some point they bought JP guitars, also because they are excellenty built guitars. So when they were asked to play this, why would they not use the guitar that gives them the best chance of sounding good?

Because the guitar doesn't do a whole lot to the overall tone to make it 'sound good'.

Not sure if serious?

[mikeyd23]

That's what this is really. They're all DT fans anyway, so at some point they bought JP guitars, also because they are excellenty built guitars. So when they were asked to play this, why would they not use the guitar that gives them the best chance of sounding good?

Because the guitar doesn't do a whole lot to the overall tone to make it 'sound good'.

Not sure if serious?

Yeah, for real. A guitar is a huge part of a rig in terms of developing a tone.

[rumborak]

It would just be another hurdle to overcome for them, to make the non-JP model sound like the JP model. Why should they bother? Solely to not have some internet people complain about it?

[Elite]

Yeah, for real. A guitar is a huge part of a rig in terms of developing a tone.

No, it is not. Of course there's gonna be a difference between a $100 guitar and a $3000 guitar, but the difference between two guitars in the same price range, made for the same general style of music (in this case, metal), will sound eerily similar when played through the same amplifier. The pickups do quite a lot for the tone, but the guitar itself - that is, the piece of wood and all electronics apart from the pick-ups - does not.

[bosk1]

Wow.  Couldn't disagree more.

[mikeyd23]

Yeah, for real. A guitar is a huge part of a rig in terms of developing a tone.

No, it is not. Of course there's gonna be a difference between a $100 guitar and a $3000 guitar, but the difference between two guitars in the same price range, made for the same general style of music (in this case, metal), will sound eerily similar when played through the same amplifier. The pickups do quite a lot for the tone, but the guitar itself - that is, the piece of wood and all electronics apart from the pick-ups - does not.

Well first off, I disagree, but you are also attaching a lot of "ifs" to that statement. It doesn't make that big of a difference "if" the guitars are in the same price range, "if" they are design for the same style of music, etc.... If you are going to attach all those "if" statements, I could say the same thing about any part of any guitar rig.

It doesn't matter what amp you play, it doesn't change your tone that much. As long as you are comparing amps in the same price range, designed for the same type of music, and have similar features.

It doesn't matter what pedals you use, it doesn't change your tone that much. As long as you are comparing pedals in the same price range, design for the same type of music, and have similar features.

The fact of the matter is that ever single piece of a signal chain (guitar absolutely included) changes the tone of a rig in various ways. The guitar being used, the amp being used, and the player's hands are probably the three biggest tone-defining parts of any rig.