MP's Shattered Fortress Tour

[King Postwhore]

No, maybe you're right.   I did, in fact, say that James wasn't classy, and I think I'm perhaps going too far with that.  Maybe I mean to say "he didn't hide it as well as the others".   But you're right, I can't really point to a moment where he was unapologetically UNclassy.

Maybe you're experiencing some unconscious anti-Canadianism.

Or a bias to forktrucks.

[KevShmev]

I think DT has handled the split as classily as they could, but I respectfully disagree with the James comment.   Did he ever come out and say "Wow, that Porntoy is a DICK and I'm glad the fucker is gone!"?   No, but as others have noted, there was a hint of glee.   There were the veiled comments about the "front man".  There were uncomfortable moments where you knew he wanted to say more.   I'm not going so far as to say he was a dick about it, but I'm sticking with the idea that James was not at all upset about Mike's leaving, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was part of the group that stuck to the "nope, you left!" position when Mike offered to come back.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that everything you say here is true...JLB still handled the split 100 times better than Portnoy, who admittedly was probably having a tough time after having his bluff called and then being rebuffed to get back in the band (the scorned is always going to handle it worse than the rejector), but let's call a spade a spade here, eh? 

[TAC]

It's really a no-brainer I think. JLB was essentially the only DT member MP publicly criticized.

And often at that.

[mikeyd23]

No, maybe you're right.   I did, in fact, say that James wasn't classy, and I think I'm perhaps going too far with that.  Maybe I mean to say "he didn't hide it as well as the others".   But you're right, I can't really point to a moment where he was unapologetically UNclassy.

That seems a bit more fair I'd say.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that everything you say here is true...JLB still handled the split 100 times better than Portnoy, who admittedly was probably having a tough time after having his bluff called and then being rebuffed to get back in the band (the scorned is always going to handle it worse than the rejector), but let's call a spade a spade here, eh? 

Well yeah, there is that...

[Stadler]

No, maybe you're right.   I did, in fact, say that James wasn't classy, and I think I'm perhaps going too far with that.  Maybe I mean to say "he didn't hide it as well as the others".   But you're right, I can't really point to a moment where he was unapologetically UNclassy.

Maybe you're experiencing some unconscious anti-Canadianism.

I don't have the strength to argue that.   

[Stadler]

I think DT has handled the split as classily as they could, but I respectfully disagree with the James comment.   Did he ever come out and say "Wow, that Porntoy is a DICK and I'm glad the fucker is gone!"?   No, but as others have noted, there was a hint of glee.   There were the veiled comments about the "front man".  There were uncomfortable moments where you knew he wanted to say more.   I'm not going so far as to say he was a dick about it, but I'm sticking with the idea that James was not at all upset about Mike's leaving, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was part of the group that stuck to the "nope, you left!" position when Mike offered to come back.

Let's assume for the sake of argument that everything you say here is true...JLB still handled the split 100 times better than Portnoy, who admittedly was probably having a tough time after having his bluff called and then being rebuffed to get back in the band (the scorned is always going to handle it worse than the rejector), but let's call a spade a spade here, eh?

Well, opinions, I don't know about "100 times" but in any event, we're not talking about him, we're talking about DT.   I'm not at all going to pretend I don't give Mike more benefit of the doubt than many here (and even at his own forum) do.   I don't know why, maybe it's that Northeast thing (I'm not from Long Island, but I am from southern Connecticut, and I get it, I really do), but while it's unabashedly emotional at times, and not always how I'd handle things, I don't necessarily think Mike is always wrong.   We have to remember, we're not exactly talking about Sir Paul McCartney here.   

[King Postwhore]

I disagree Stadler.  I'm from the northeast (NH) and I firmly believe Mike handled himself incorrectly.  He spread himself too thin and wanted 4 other guys to take a break that they did not want and in the end he left because of that. Then flip flopped, wanted to come back after they picked a new guy.  He took to the internet like a scorned lover but i still look at it as he was the catalyst for all the drama.

I still love him to death and follow 90% of his other projects but the break up was on him.

[cramx3]

Definitely not a regional thing.  MP was very much clearly the one who handled the break up the worst, and as Kev mentioned, given the scenario, that's kind of normal.  JLB probably was the one who handled it the worst from DT's end, but I think DT as a whole have overall been very respectful to MP whereas he has not always been.  I don't think MP is always wrong though, far from, he just has a different perspective and I think he, like Trump, is bad at expressing that perspective through social media.

[Stadler]

Definitely not a regional thing.  MP was very much clearly the one who handled the break up the worst, and as Kev mentioned, given the scenario, that's kind of normal.  JLB probably was the one who handled it the worst from DT's end, but I think DT as a whole have overall been very respectful to MP whereas he has not always been.  I don't think MP is always wrong though, far from, he just has a different perspective and I think he, like Trump, is bad at expressing that perspective through social media.

Well, while I still think there's a little "New York" in some of this, I guess Cram is most right about this.   More right than me, that is.   Though it's hard to admit because like I said, I'm an unabashed Portnoy fanboy.

[King Postwhore]

I am with you as being a fanboy Stadler.  I felt at the time Mike was just burning himself out with too many bands and when he was playing with other bands "the old wife" became less attractive and he wanted a break to play with the "new girl".

[Kwyjibo]

Being a fanboy doesn't necessarily mean that you have to love everything that your idol does and that you have to agree with every action.

Hell, I'm a big Eddie Van Halen fanboy but I know that he's a complete dick most of the time. Still love his music to death.

Same with MP, love his music (mostly) but don't love and agree with all of his actions.

And a lot of the "drama" surrounding DT and MP is just a storm in a waterglass compared to the drama of other bands that split up (looking at the aforementioned EVH, or GnR, or Queensryche or ...)

[King Postwhore]

Oh hell yeah, at Styx (DeYoung) & Journey (Perry) to that list.

[bosk1]

I don't necessarily think Mike is always wrong.

Oh, I agree with you quite a bit on that.  But the problem more often than not, as has been noted, is how he handles things.  He may be right about something.  But when he turns around and takes the low road to show how "right" he is, he loses the P/R battle. 

Case in point is how he has dealt with this forum even while still being a member of DT.  He is right that a lot of the critique and criticism that gets posted here is unfair and goes too far.  I don't have a problem with him feeling that way, and I tend to agree.  But where I do have a problem is that when I met him back when he was still a member of DT, he was extremely critical of the forum as a whole and was incredibly rude to me simply because I run the forum.  And he has never really stopped and continues to take shots at us.  So while he is right on the larger issue, he ends up being wrong because he cannot seem to handle himself in a way that could bring some positivity to the table.

[Samsara]

Portnoy really needs to read that bosk, and think hard about it.

[bosk1]

I wish he would.  But he knows.  It's been said to him, and he has made it clear that he doesn't care.  And knowing that is what gets me even more bent, to the point where I get worked up thinking about it even now.  Which is funny given that I am usually so free about letting things go.  Must be spending too much time around you and Jack, and having some Long Island rub off on me. 

[cramx3]

That's sadly surprising given how much he seems to care about the fans

[gzarruk]

Some people seem to forget that MP also accused DT of rewriting IAW with ADTOE and plagiarizing a RED (I think that's the band's name) song with BMU BMD. Also, he's the one who always speaks of how good HE is, and how the DT members arent:
- "Believe me, I tried to rejoin for THE FANS, but THEY wouldn't accept ME. Everything I do is for the FANS".
- "I am no longer allowed to sell these drum cam DVDs, because THEY don't allow me to. I tried, guys..."
- "I really wanted them to perform the 12SS with me on the cruise, but seems like THEY have another plans. Sorry, guys..."

Just a few examples of how well has MP handled the split overall

[Stadler]

I wish he would.  But he knows.  It's been said to him, and he has made it clear that he doesn't care.  And knowing that is what gets me even more bent, to the point where I get worked up thinking about it even now.  Which is funny given that I am usually so free about letting things go.  Must be spending too much time around you and Jack, and having some Long Island rub off on me. 

I'm following this with fascination (because I know some of the history here, not all of it), but you lost me slightly:  he knows what exactly?  What has been said to him?   

[Adami]

Some people seem to forget that MP also accused DT of rewriting IAW with ADTOE and plagiarizing a RED (I think that's the band's name) song with BMU BMD. Also, he's the one who always speaks of how good HE is, and how the DT members arent:
- "Believe me, I tried to rejoin for THE FANS, but THEY wouldn't accept ME. Everything I do is for the FANS".
- "I am no longer allowed to sell these drum cam DVDs, because THEY don't allow me to. I tried, guys..."
- "I really wanted them to perform the 12SS with me on the cruise, but seems like THEY have another plans. Sorry, guys..."

Just a few examples of how well has MP handled the split overall

Are those actual Portnoy quotes, or Kotow quotes attributed to MP?

[FOXAN03]

A lot of the shows have Doors opening at 7 and show time 8 with no mention on the tickets of 'with special guests' I.e. support act. Considering the tickets for the london gig was £40 which is substantial i'm expecting a long show so this well could be an "evening with" scenario potentially:

Overture 1928
Strange Deja vu
Constant Motion
The Mirror
Honor Thy Father
Home
The Best of Times (If MP can bring himself to play it otherwise replace with Goodnight Kiss)
Finally Free
................
The Glass Prison
This Dying Soul
The Root Of All Evil
Repentance
This Shattered Fortress
..................
A Change of Seasons

[bosk1]

There is positively no way the set is that long.

[bosk1]

I wish he would.  But he knows.  It's been said to him, and he has made it clear that he doesn't care.  And knowing that is what gets me even more bent, to the point where I get worked up thinking about it even now.  Which is funny given that I am usually so free about letting things go.  Must be spending too much time around you and Jack, and having some Long Island rub off on me. 

I'm following this with fascination (because I know some of the history here, not all of it), but you lost me slightly:  he knows what exactly?  What has been said to him?   

He knows and has been told that his reaction to this forum as an entity itself (i.e., as opposed to his reaction to specific posts that may, for specific reasons, be problematic) and his reaction to me as the owner of this forum are off-base, overblown, offensive, and do him a disservice.  He knows that, and he has been told that, and he does not care.  Not even a little.

[The Letter M]

On the topic of the tour poster, has anyone spotted the clear absence of FII in the artwork? IIRC, he wrote four lyrics during that time with Derek in the band, but it seems like he might not play any of those songs, which leads me to believe that he's purposely NOT playing those songs so he can put them in the set lists for his new band with Derek.

-Marc.

[cramx3]

On the topic of the tour poster, has anyone spotted the clear absence of FII in the artwork? IIRC, he wrote four lyrics during that time with Derek in the band, but it seems like he might not play any of those songs, which leads me to believe that he's purposely NOT playing those songs so he can put them in the set lists for his new band with Derek.

-Marc.

Didn't he also already perform at least Lines in the Sand since leaving DT so maybe that plays a role?

[bosk1]

On the topic of the tour poster, has anyone spotted the clear absence of FII in the artwork? IIRC, he wrote four lyrics during that time with Derek in the band, but it seems like he might not play any of those songs, which leads me to believe that he's purposely NOT playing those songs so he can put them in the set lists for his new band with Derek.

-Marc.

I think him playing one or two of those songs in the project with Derek is a smart deduction.  But why would he play anything from FII with this band?  He listed album covers from 5 albums that the 12SS songs come from.  Playing that simply does not leave a lot more room in a set.  If he additionally does a song from Awake, a song from SFAM, maybe one additional song from one of those five albums, and a NM cover or a Haken cover, that is already a longer set list than I would have expected. 

[KevShmev]

I wish he would.  But he knows.  It's been said to him, and he has made it clear that he doesn't care.  And knowing that is what gets me even more bent, to the point where I get worked up thinking about it even now.  Which is funny given that I am usually so free about letting things go.  Must be spending too much time around you and Jack, and having some Long Island rub off on me. 

I'm following this with fascination (because I know some of the history here, not all of it), but you lost me slightly:  he knows what exactly?  What has been said to him?   

He knows and has been told that his reaction to this forum as an entity itself (i.e., as opposed to his reaction to specific posts that may, for specific reasons, be problematic) and his reaction to me as the owner of this forum are off-base, overblown, offensive, and do him a disservice.  He knows that, and he has been told that, and he does not care.  Not even a little.

I didn't know that, but it doesn't surprise me.  I am sure he considers this forum a continuation of dt.net, which he hated, so I guess that makes all fans and mods here just awful. 

[?]

Some people seem to forget that MP also accused DT of rewriting IAW with ADTOE and plagiarizing a RED (I think that's the band's name) song with BMU BMD. Also, he's the one who always speaks of how good HE is, and how the DT members arent:
- "Believe me, I tried to rejoin for THE FANS, but THEY wouldn't accept ME. Everything I do is for the FANS".
- "I am no longer allowed to sell these drum cam DVDs, because THEY don't allow me to. I tried, guys..."
- "I really wanted them to perform the 12SS with me on the cruise, but seems like THEY have another plans. Sorry, guys..."

Just a few examples of how well has MP handled the split overall

Don't forget the liking of anti-JLB comments on FB

[Fritzinger]

Some people seem to forget that MP also accused DT of rewriting IAW with ADTOE and plagiarizing a RED (I think that's the band's name) song with BMU BMD. Also, he's the one who always speaks of how good HE is, and how the DT members arent:
- "Believe me, I tried to rejoin for THE FANS, but THEY wouldn't accept ME. Everything I do is for the FANS".
- "I am no longer allowed to sell these drum cam DVDs, because THEY don't allow me to. I tried, guys..."
- "I really wanted them to perform the 12SS with me on the cruise, but seems like THEY have another plans. Sorry, guys..."

Just a few examples of how well has MP handled the split overall

Don't forget the liking of anti-JLB comments on FB

What? You can't be serious? He does that?

[SwedishGoose]

Some people seem to forget that MP also accused DT of rewriting IAW with ADTOE and plagiarizing a RED (I think that's the band's name) song with BMU BMD. Also, he's the one who always speaks of how good HE is, and how the DT members arent:
- "Believe me, I tried to rejoin for THE FANS, but THEY wouldn't accept ME. Everything I do is for the FANS".
- "I am no longer allowed to sell these drum cam DVDs, because THEY don't allow me to. I tried, guys..."
- "I really wanted them to perform the 12SS with me on the cruise, but seems like THEY have another plans. Sorry, guys..."

Just a few examples of how well has MP handled the split overall

Don't forget the liking of anti-JLB comments on FB

What? You can't be serious? He does that?

At least he did... I distinctly remember seeing that

[?]

Some people seem to forget that MP also accused DT of rewriting IAW with ADTOE and plagiarizing a RED (I think that's the band's name) song with BMU BMD. Also, he's the one who always speaks of how good HE is, and how the DT members arent:
- "Believe me, I tried to rejoin for THE FANS, but THEY wouldn't accept ME. Everything I do is for the FANS".
- "I am no longer allowed to sell these drum cam DVDs, because THEY don't allow me to. I tried, guys..."
- "I really wanted them to perform the 12SS with me on the cruise, but seems like THEY have another plans. Sorry, guys..."

Just a few examples of how well has MP handled the split overall

Don't forget the liking of anti-JLB comments on FB

What? You can't be serious? He does that?

At least he did... I distinctly remember seeing that

Yeah, that was pretty soon after the split, in 2011 I think. IIRC he was like "I can like whatever *I* want!" when people called him out on it.

[Kotowboy]

RT-ing on Twitter too.

[Kotowboy]

Some people seem to forget that MP also accused DT of rewriting IAW with ADTOE and plagiarizing a RED (I think that's the band's name) song with BMU BMD. Also, he's the one who always speaks of how good HE is, and how the DT members arent:
- "Believe me, I tried to rejoin for THE FANS, but THEY wouldn't accept ME. Everything I do is for the FANS".
- "I am no longer allowed to sell these drum cam DVDs, because THEY don't allow me to. I tried, guys..."
- "I really wanted them to perform the 12SS with me on the cruise, but seems like THEY have another plans. Sorry, guys..."

Just a few examples of how well has MP handled the split overall

Are those actual Portnoy quotes, or Kotow quotes attributed to MP?

Actual.

If i'm imitating MP - *I* make it REALLY over the top and obvious FOR THE FANS guys...: ) :  )  : )

[gzarruk]

Some people seem to forget that MP also accused DT of rewriting IAW with ADTOE and plagiarizing a RED (I think that's the band's name) song with BMU BMD. Also, he's the one who always speaks of how good HE is, and how the DT members arent:
- "Believe me, I tried to rejoin for THE FANS, but THEY wouldn't accept ME. Everything I do is for the FANS".
- "I am no longer allowed to sell these drum cam DVDs, because THEY don't allow me to. I tried, guys..."
- "I really wanted them to perform the 12SS with me on the cruise, but seems like THEY have another plans. Sorry, guys..."

Just a few examples of how well has MP handled the split overall

Are those actual Portnoy quotes, or Kotow quotes attributed to MP?

Actual.

If i'm imitating MP - *I* make it REALLY over the top and obvious FOR THE FANS guys...: ) :  )  : )

  Mine aren't word for word quotes, but Mike has, in fact, said all these things I listed. He's always the one pointing out how the other guys didn't allow him to do certain stuff or how HE was the one inviting Derek and Charlie for that anniversary show, etc etc.

Also,he doesn't explicitly say bad things about the DT guys like "James sucks" or anything like that, but, as some people here have been saying, he always likes comments or tweets that say bad stuff about DT and the other guys, specially James and Mangini. That doesn't help his image at all, if you ask me.

[mikemangioy]

A lot of the shows have Doors opening at 7 and show time 8 with no mention on the tickets of 'with special guests' I.e. support act. Considering the tickets for the london gig was £40 which is substantial i'm expecting a long show so this well could be an "evening with" scenario potentially:

Well I'm going to Milan, and it says that the opening act will be Next To None. Can anyone confirm this?

[Elite]

Of course it'll be Next to None