MP's Shattered Fortress Tour

[Cool Chris]

Ross is the Jon Anderson of his time...

As someone who thinks the vocals are the weakest link (GOODBYE!) of Yes, this made me chortle.

[Shadow Ninja 2.0]

I think the material isn't really suited to Ross, but I think he did a great job with it, and generally speaking I think he's an absolutely fantastic singer. Honestly, I love Haken's music, but Ross is a huge part of why I'm a fan.

I don't think his death growls are very good, though.

[Madman Shepherd]

Not HUGE on Ross Jennings, but he's easily a better singer than James LaBrie these days, all things being equal.

No way.  JLB has many struggles live, but he still has much more diversity, range and power in his voice than Jennings does.  No, JLB cannot do what he did when he was 29, but for a 53-year old man, who has belted it out as much over the years as he has on DT's countless tour dates, his voice has held up pretty well.

Yup, pretty much.  I've got no complaints about James except time is (finally) catching up to him.  He's even handling that pretty damn well. 

That said, this Ross guy clearly is no JLB but I don't think he is *that* bad.  I mean, I don't know who else MP could possibly get.  James just has too unique of a voice to replicate.  I guess all you can hope for is to do justice in replicating the melodies.  Sounds like he did that but just didn't have enough emotion and grit. 

From what little I've heard of Haken and the NMB, this Ross guy sounds like a more skilled and rounded (vocally) Eric Gillette whose vocals do absolutely nothing for me. 

[Adami]

Obviously I'm only judging from the 5 minute video of Glass Prison, but it's not bad. I think the problem is that it was the minimum. It was fine, but it could have been so much more. Portnoy really stressed that this was going to be a huge thing, but then it turned out to be Haken with MP, which was just a bit of a let down, especially for those of us that aren't huge Haken fans. Like I said, wasn't bad at all, just could have been so much more. Maybe the next performance will be a different line up.

[PetFish]

Seems like Haken is everywhere in this thread.  I've never heard them at all.  Where to start?

[Elite]

Seems like Haken is everywhere in this thread.  I've never heard them at all.  Where to start?

The Mountain -> Aquarius -> Affinity -> Visions -> Restoration

[Kwyjibo]

Ross is obviously no JLB, but he doesn't need to be. I said before that I would find it more interesting if they shake things up a bit and not try to emulate the studio versions note for note and sound for sound. From the short clip I got the impression that they tried just that and then Ross falls short.

I got into Haken last year but the biggest hurdle for me are the vocals. They just lack something for this kind of music, the singer would be more suited for soft piano pop ballads. And yes he growls, but he's not good at it either. And the comparison with Jon Anderson doesn't fit either. Jon has a completely different voice, and Haken don't really make music in the vein of Yes.

This is all highly subjective I know and I'm still curious how Gildenlöw or Leonard sound and I still hope we get a decent recording of this someday.

[Mladen]

Ross looks like JLB and Russell Allen combined when it comes to his stage presence. His vocals don't sound that amazing on the clip I saw (and neither did Ted's performance of TROAE), but maybe the clips don't do them justice.

When it comes to Ross's voice in general, he's pretty solid and can sound amazingly well on the studio albums, especially on the softer, more emotional bits.

[cramx3]

Haken are also playing progpower this year so I'd imagine they will be performing with MP there too. Wonder if the intro set changes personal and songs.

[MinistroRaven]

What a bunch of whiners.

Has MP done it with others musicians there would be complain too.

Never enough

[KevShmev]

Ross is the Jon Anderson of his time...

As someone who thinks the vocals are the weakest link (GOODBYE!) of Yes, this made me chortle.

Well, it was Saturday night, so I am going to assume jammindude had been drinking heavily, which would be ironic given the suite of songs we are talking about.

I got into Haken last year but the biggest hurdle for me are the vocals. They just lack something for this kind of music, the singer would be more suited for soft piano pop ballads. And yes he growls, but he's not good at it either. And the comparison with Jon Anderson doesn't fit either. Jon has a completely different voice, and Haken don't really make music in the vein of Yes.

Agreed.  Jon Anderson wouldn't sound good trying to sing something like The Glass Prison either.  Having said that, Anderson's angelic voice is still one of the most unique in the history of rock, and he is a prog rock legend for a reason.   

Back to Haken's singer, not to beat a dead horse, but as much as I like their last two albums and a few songs from the first couple, I don't listen to that them much, mainly because of his voice.  If they had a singer I liked a lot, I would probably listen to them a ton.

[MinistroRaven]

TDS

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nealmorseforum/permalink/380144832365639/

[erwinrafael]

Portnoy + Haken. Portnoy and his boys.

[The Letter M]

TDS

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nealmorseforum/permalink/380144832365639/

Hmm, guess there's no transition between TDS and TROAE. I guess after 25 minutes of insanity, they would want a breath to take!

-Marc.

[RoeDent]

I couldn't imagine Haken's songs being sung by anyone other than Jennings.

[Madman Shepherd]

Hmmmm, not a fan of the vocals on TDS. I actually like that Ross guy more on TGP than I do this Daniel guy on TDS. 

[ToT-147]

No problem with picking the bassist and keyboardist, but when you've got Eric there to do the guitar parts, that's enough right there. Or as someone said, having one of the other guitarists from Haken could be used, but both? Seems unnecessary. Had he used Daniel for the whole thing, I'd bet Daniel could've been the rhythm guitarist for the whole set so that there'd be no need for either of the Haken guitarists.

But you're seeing it in a mechanical and cold way, not taking into account that MP didn't selected random musicians just for the sake of it.. They are all friends, and it's obvious that, off the stage, they were going to be hanging out and spending lot of time together, so when it came to the decision, maybe he couldn't not to invite as many Haken's members as he wanted (obviously minus the drummer).. Or probably he thought it'd be cool to have at least two guitars on stage to do more justice to the metal side of the songs, which is way present throughout the whole suite, with the exception of Repentance.. But if that was what happenned, then he couldn't obviously decided between Richard and Charlie, and invited both instead..

Then again, that's how it turned out, and I don't get why anyone would be upset for the choices he made; it was his birthday after all .. Of course we can have opinions; I for one expected to see Richard playing guitar and keys as he does in Haken, but it just didn't happen, and it's not a big deal either..

Seems like Haken is everywhere in this thread.  I've never heard them at all.  Where to start?

The Mountain -> Aquarius -> Affinity -> Visions -> Restoration

If you want a second (although only slightly different) opinion: Affinity -> The Mountain -> Aquarius -> Visions -> Restoration

TDS

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nealmorseforum/permalink/380144832365639/

Thanks, I was waiting for this!... Hello TDS, so glad to see you my friend, it's been a while!!!....

[pogoowner]

It's really hard to tell how a singer actually sounds with these types of recordings, but I thought Daniel sounded good from what I could hear.

[jammindude]

The Mountain > Visions > Affinity > Aquarius > Restoration

Restoration is only last because it's an EP, and picking ANY of these album to go last is like picking a least favorite child.....it hurts when you force me to pick. 

This is one of the bands I can count on one hand where I can honestly say that they don't just have one masterpiece....everything they do is a masterpiece.  4 albums, an EP, and a demo, and I haven't heard a single note that I wasn't completely in love with.   Yes, even the caliope moments on  Aquarius and the demo. 


EDIT:  It was Saturday night....I guess that makes it alright.

But seriously.   I had had one black russian, and I feel no differently now that it's Sunday morning.   So there. 

[Elite]

TDS

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nealmorseforum/permalink/380144832365639/

OMG Gildenlöw



wait, he's actually struggling with a lot of notes,. what's going on?

[MirrorMask]

TDS

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nealmorseforum/permalink/380144832365639/

Hmm, guess there's no transition between TDS and TROAE. I guess after 25 minutes of insanity, they would want a breath to take!

Probably it was like the moments of break between The Dance of Eternity and One Last Time live, but I thought the point was to have a giant song all going on continously... there's a moment before the last part of the solo, in the video it's at the 10:45 mark, that there's a little pause, they could have stopped there, took a breath (like it happens during Metropolis when they black out the stage) and then go on from there.

[jammindude]

TDS

https://www.facebook.com/groups/nealmorseforum/permalink/380144832365639/

Hmm, guess there's no transition between TDS and TROAE. I guess after 25 minutes of insanity, they would want a breath to take!

Probably it was like the moments of break between The Dance of Eternity and One Last Time live, but I thought the point was to have a giant song all going on continously... there's a moment before the last part of the solo, in the video it's at the 10:45 mark, that there's a little pause, they could have stopped there, took a breath (like it happens during Metropolis when they black out the stage) and then go on from there.

Taking a breath may have been secondary....but I remember them saying that in that case, it was planned because they knew they were going to need some sort of stoppage for the CD release.    And you can see from LSFNY, that is exactly where the CD1 stops and CD2 begins.

[Adami]

I'd imagine it's pretty hard to just go from TDS to TROAE since they're in different tunings.

[jammindude]

Ya.....Daniel was really struggling that night.   I know he's a MUCH better singer than that normally.   Too bad he was having an off night.   Hope he's OK. 

[MirrorMask]

I'd imagine it's pretty hard to just go from TDS to TROAE since they're in different tunings.

Question from a non musician... would it be hard to stop at the mark I said before (the little pause before rushing into the final fast section of the solo) and then go on from there, with the final part of TDS tuned the same way as Root? when you hear them back to back together they flow very well into one another (the end of This Dying Soul into the "real" beginning of Root, skipping the whole intro) and it's a pity to not actually hear it live...

[Adami]

Ya.....Daniel was really struggling that night.   I know he's a MUCH better singer than that normally.   Too bad he was having an off night.   Hope he's OK.

Daniel is my favorite singer, and if you told me he recorded an album of Chipmunk songs, I'd buy it ASAP. That said, this was not the song for him to sing. Just felt like an odd choice. His voice doesn't really compliment those vocal parts at all.

I think that's the major problem with the vocalists for this thing. They're good singers, but their voices just seem like odd choices for this. You need a singer with a lot of oomph, range and low range power that can go high. Basically Russell Allen would have been an ideal choice.

[ariich]

Are all these opinions about the vocalists just based on these poor quality youtube/facebook bootleg vids, or has anyone who was on the cruise weighed in?

[ToT-147]

The negative opinions are definitely based on nothing but the vids.. The ones that actually went there are only amazed, as usually happens with this kind of DT or prog events..

[Adami]

I'll grant you that poor quality vids aren't always a great way to make a judgement, but I really can't agree with this mentality that seeing it in person gives you an objective view on what happened, and a video can never be seen as worth judging. People who see things in person almost always say it's amazing, perfect or sublime and then when they rewatch it (even in amazing quality) they realize all the stuff they just didn't notice because of the energy at the time. Meanwhile, a bad video is only worth ignoring if it's REALLY bad quality. None of the videos posted here are such bad quality that we can't possibly make a judgment from them. Might that judgment change if a high quality video is released? Of course! But we lack that. And short of not having any discussion whatsoever, this is the best we can do.

[Bertielee]

The negative opinions are definitely based on nothing but the vids.. The ones that actually went there are only amazed, as usually happens with this kind of DT or prog events..

True. And it is as hard to form an opinion from a YT vid as it is when attending a show, because I know that, personnally, I have a tendency to see everything in pink when at a concert.

B.Lee

[MinistroRaven]

Well at least Ted Leonard is being open and said he was having a rough night that night

[Bertielee]

Not HUGE on Ross Jennings, but he's easily a better singer than James LaBrie these days, all things being equal.

No, simply no. Jenning's voice is thin as compared to JLB. Not in the same league for me. Now, give me Tommy Karevik and I say OK.

B.Lee

[ClairvoyantCat]

The guy from Haken is just terrible at emoting and is the main reason why I can't listen to them. 

[Train of Naught]

If anything, it's the people that attended the show that are biased. We may not have the perfect audio quality, but it's not like we can't hear the vocals. The ones that laid down a fair amount of money to see some of their favourite musicians ever play some of their favourite songs will obviously most likely have enjoyed it despite some (minor) issues.

Not HUGE on Ross Jennings, but he's easily a better singer than James LaBrie these days, all things being equal.

No, simply no. Jenning's voice is thin as compared to JLB. Not in the same league for me. Now, give me Tommy Karevik and I say OK.

B.Lee

Disagree that JLB is the better singer. I like JLB better than Ross, for sure, but I don't think he is nearly as good these days. But yeah, Karevik blows both of them out of the water, would have been really cool to see him.

[KevShmev]

But seriously.   I had had one black russian...

I knew it...

I'll grant you that poor quality vids aren't always a great way to make a judgement, but I really can't agree with this mentality that seeing it in person gives you an objective view on what happened, and a video can never be seen as worth judging. People who see things in person almost always say it's amazing, perfect or sublime and then when they rewatch it (even in amazing quality) they realize all the stuff they just didn't notice because of the energy at the time. Meanwhile, a bad video is only worth ignoring if it's REALLY bad quality. None of the videos posted here are such bad quality that we can't possibly make a judgment from them. Might that judgment change if a high quality video is released? Of course! But we lack that. And short of not having any discussion whatsoever, this is the best we can do.

Totally agree.  It's always easy to overlook or not care about flaws when caught up in the euphoria of the live show.  Heck, Neal Morse completely butchered his own guitar solo in Draw the Line when I saw them 2 1/2 weeks ago, but I was having so much fun, I couldn't have cared less.

The guy from Haken is just terrible at emoting and is the main reason why I can't listen to them.

I think he does a good job on the softer stuff.  For example, he sounds great in the mellow section of Falling Back to Earth.  Also, Because It's There is right in his wheelhouse. And his "ahhhh"s during the climax of the instrumental section in Celestial Elixir are great.   

On the flip side, there are just far too many moments where his voice falls completely flat for me.  For example, the last two minutes of Crystallised should have been totally awesome, but he simply doesn't enough power and strength in his voice to belt it out and give that section the energy it needed for the climax to be a satisfying ending after that kind of build-up, IMO.  That song rates high on my list of biggest teases ever, largely because that final section is so unsatisfying vocally.