Author Topic: Guns in sports stadiums???  (Read 2719 times)

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Offline dparrott

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Guns in sports stadiums???
« on: December 11, 2016, 09:23:11 AM »
See link.  Are they freakin serious?  Why would you bring a gun to a sports event anyway??? 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/12/10/washington-guns-stadiums-bill-seahawks-mariners
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2016, 09:28:46 AM »
Why would you bring a gun to a sports event anyway??? 
 

I can see some wanting to for walking to and from their cars.  Downtown St. Louis isn't the safest area in certain spots when walking to your car before or after Blues or Cardinals games, so I could see someone wanting to be able to protect themselves.

I do think if this would pass, no one carrying inside the stadium should be allowed to purchase alcohol. 

Regardless, I would not be in favor of this law.

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2016, 09:40:31 AM »
That's just nuts. I assume it absolves the private owner of the stadium of any responsibility.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline dparrott

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2016, 09:57:58 AM »
Yea I was only thinking of inside, but outside I can see the purpose.  If this passes, fans going to away games could be a lot more dangerous!
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2016, 10:00:40 AM »
Yea I was only thinking of inside, but outside I can see the purpose.  If this passes, fans going to away games could be a lot more dangerous!

Your kicky ball sportsy team beat my kicky ball sportsy team ! :angry: i must kill you ! Even though you as an observer had nothing to do with it !!!!

Offline lordxizor

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2016, 10:25:18 AM »
This is a terrible idea all around. Drunk, rowdy, often angry sports fans should not have guns.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2016, 10:33:09 AM »
This is a terrible idea all around. Drunk, rowdy, often angry sports fans should not have guns.

YES THEY SHOULD ! IT IS THEIR GOD GIVEN RIGHT AS AN AMERICAN!!! IT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION !!

SURE LETS JUST *CHANGE* AN AMENDMENT... ::)

Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2016, 10:36:02 AM »
Allow fans to "check in" their guns at station prior to the security check. Give their gun and any ammo to attendant who holds it until after the game. Any guns found at the security check get confiscated. When fan goes to pick up gun after leaving the stadium, has to pass a breathalyzer before having gun returned. If fan fails breathalyzer then they can come pick up the gun at a future date/time.   

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2016, 10:39:42 AM »
I've been to over 200 NFL games in my lifetime and I've never seen a gun in the parking lot except for the police.

Never.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2016, 11:48:49 AM »
I'm trying to reckon whether or not they could pull this off in Texas. I think it'd be really tough. There are a lot of factors in play here. Jerry conned the City of Arlington into buying him the stadium, so in general therms the decision would be his. No idea who owns the stadiums in Seattle. That said, the law in Texas only goes one direction. A business owner can prohibit carrying for whatever reason he wants, but he can't allow weapons in places that would violate state law, and I think that Texas included a provision prohibiting carrying in places where sporting events are taking place. If that's true, they were clearly thinking one way at the time and I'm not sure they'd want to change that now. And I'm not sure how much support it'd get from the voters since it's such a stunningly asinine idea. There's also the NFL and MLB to consider. I'm guessing that MLB doesn't object, but I doubt the NFL would go along with it. They could conceivably change the rules to prohibit guns altogether. An owner could sue, but I seriously doubt Jerry would care enough to open that can of worms; no money in it.

Personally,  my stance is the same as it is for the guns at concerts topic. My fear of of getting shot up by terrorists is about 1/4250th of my fear of getting shot up by dipshits and assholes of the every day American variety. I'm content to eat dinner in restaurants where people pack. Riding the train doesn't bug me. Gun owners in parks are fine. However, as much as it pisses off Texas gun owners, I really don't want drunks packing at nightclubs, pool halls and sporting events. Seems to me such common sense that the discussion itself is baffling.

Here's an interesting angle. People tend to overestimate their abilities in all sorts of areas. Everybody in this forum is an excellent driver but worried about everybody else that can't drive worth a shit. People think similarly of their ability to drink. Gun owners no doubt think much more highly of their ability to be responsible with their weapons than that of others. Yet they think it'd be just dandy for them, and therefore everybody else, to take a loaded gun to Speeds to shoot some pool. I don't get it.
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Offline MirrorMask

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2016, 12:56:58 PM »
The idea is beyond absurd, but to be completely honest, living on the other side of the ocean makes me seem absurd the whole idea of people being able to even carry their guns to a stadium, if only to check it in.

Not trying to start a pro or against guns issue since it's a complex topic, but allow me to get where I want to with an example. Now, I honestly don't know how widespread is the ban of smoking in public places, but I'm old enough to have lived in the times where you could smoke in bars and pubs, I remember going to a metal pub and coming home with the clothes stinking. Then in 2002 I believe the ban was applied, and smokers simply went outside to smoke.

Now, if such a ban was never applied, us non smokers would simply go along with it and reason along the way of "Mh, I'm going to the pub tonight, better wear clothes I'll wash tomorrow since they'll be stinking anyway". Just as you're debating about the reasonable way to handle guns at sport events (as someone suggested, just check them in and pick them up when you go away, for example).

But the point is, you're debating about the possible places where it's acceptable to bring a gun because that's your reality. Just know that there's another reality where not having a gun works perfectly fine. I know the world is not the same everywhere and what may works in some nations or continents, may not work in another, but I'm happy and consider myself lucky to live in a place where having to have a gun even in a parking lot of a stadium is not a legitimate and appropriate concern.
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2016, 02:10:43 PM »
Doesn't the NFL have rules against this as well? I'm pretty sure most of the security at stadiums during NFL games was mandated by the NFL, not the individual teams.

Offline Jester

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2016, 04:16:35 PM »
How is this not going to turn P/R?  How is it not P/R by default?

This is a terrible idea all around. Drunk, rowdy, often angry sports fans should not have guns.

YES THEY SHOULD ! IT IS THEIR GOD GIVEN RIGHT AS AN AMERICAN!!! IT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION !!

SURE LETS JUST *CHANGE* AN AMENDMENT... ::)


Not sure Americans need a lecture from *hooligans* on sports fan etiquette.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2016, 05:21:13 PM »
Allow fans to "check in" their guns at station prior to the security check. Give their gun and any ammo to attendant who holds it until after the game. Any guns found at the security check get confiscated. When fan goes to pick up gun after leaving the stadium, has to pass a breathalyzer before having gun returned. If fan fails breathalyzer then they can come pick up the gun at a future date/time.

Totally this. I intentionally do not go to any more Cardinal baseball games, and only go to playoff Hockey games on occasion because I can't carry my gun inside. I don't think I'm going to get mugged or robbed or anything while I'm in the park or stadium, it's all about the walk back to the vehicle. Ever since the Cardinals put a metal detector on every entrance after game crime and muggings are up 45% and theft of weapons left in vehicles is around the same mark. You're an easy target because the criminals know you're unarmed and they know for every 20 cars they break into they're most likely going to find at least one gun.

The walk back to the vehicle IS why I want my gun on me. I've been a CCW holder since 2007 and literally have a gun within my reach at any moment of the day...unless I'm on my couch at home then it's within walking distance. That bill in the OP's link looks fantastic to my eyes and in fact with the heavily loaded Republican State Congress and pro gun leadership that Missouri has now I am personally looking into crafting some sort of 'executive' carry law where if CCW holders take additional classes and pay a fee 'we' could take our weapons into stadiums and gatherings as such, then finding a way to introduce it. My final straw was the DT Concert that was held at the Peabody Opera house a bit over a month ago and they were searching and metal detecting people there. I get the security aspect of it but at the same time responsible CCW permit holders shouldn't have their or their families lives endangered to placate to social pressure. On down the line establishments that don't even advertise a 'no carry' sign and searching and wanding people and I personally am fed up with it.

Any responsible CCW permit holder is not going to drink/get drunk and carry anyway. You can lose your permit if you do that for one....it's just idiotic. And despite the picture that is often tried to be painted about the 'crazy red neck gun lovers'....the gun crowd I know is absolutely responsible and wouldn't think of carrying their gun if they were drinking.

To EB's point of:
 
People tend to overestimate their abilities in all sorts of areas. Everybody in this forum is an excellent driver but worried about everybody else that can't drive worth a shit. People think similarly of their ability to drink. Gun owners no doubt think much more highly of their ability to be responsible with their weapons than that of others. Yet they think it'd be just dandy for them, and therefore everybody else, to take a loaded gun to Speeds to shoot some pool. I don't get it.

If you're someone who has a carry permit and have deemed yourself 'ready' to use that gun if you 'need' to....then when I speak of responsible CCW permit holders I'm not talking just about not drinking when carrying and always locking up your gun. I'm talking about routinely firing your gun(s)....routinely cleaning them....visualization exercises, the whole gambit. I know we've gotten in the weeds before about stats and what not as far as accuracy and response, fight or flight and so on. You just never really know how folks are going to react to any situation. But if you're a CCW permit holder and you AREN'T staying practiced and humble then I'd prefer you not even carry at all.
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Online TAC

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2016, 05:26:49 PM »
Are you saying that when the TACs plan their Missouri tour, we should NOT plan on attending a Cardinals' game? It's so dangerous that you need a gun to attend?
(not debating the gun carrying issue, just the fact that it is THAT unsafe to go to a game)
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline King Postwhore

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2016, 05:38:27 PM »
Can qe assume that a business can not allow you on their premises?  That includes stadium owned parking lots.  There are others that are not stadium owned that you could carry.

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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2016, 05:46:01 PM »
Are you saying that when the TACs plan their Missouri tour, we should NOT plan on attending a Cardinals' game? It's so dangerous that you need a gun to attend?
(not debating the gun carrying issue, just the fact that it is THAT unsafe to go to a game)

Not at all. Im saying that for me, I don't like having the ability to protect myself or my family taken away from me like that. Every city has crime, but it's an unarguable fact that when the Cards implemented the 100% metal detectors criminals got a little more bold. It's not Chicago or Detroit dangerous or a war zone by any means but I'd prefer to be armed, that's just me. Security around the immediate stadium is in full force. But if you park at one of the outlying, cheaper lots you're walking through some 'unprotected' areas and there have been some high level crimes committed. 

The three or four ball games I've been forced to go to via family or work obligatory reasons I pay then $40 and park right next to the stadium. Something that sucks, dropping $40 because i have to leave my gun in my car.

And, if/when you come to StL I better get a PM and meetup  :tup
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Online TAC

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2016, 06:06:13 PM »
And, if/when you come to StL I better get a PM and meetup  :tup

Depends if you bring Kev or not! :lol

Well, Kansas City is on my bucket list. (I was born in KC). My son is a huge Titanic fan so Branson is on the list, and I'd like to see the Arch and go to a Card's game.


When we went to LA a couple years ago, we planned an afternoon game to see the Dodgers. Unfortunately when we were in Denver last summer, it was a night game, but we literally parked across the street and left after the 5th anyway.

I remember years ago (2000 I think) we went to a night game at Camden Yards and I felt very unsafe walking back.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #18 on: December 11, 2016, 06:10:41 PM »
How is this not going to turn P/R?  How is it not P/R by default?

This is a terrible idea all around. Drunk, rowdy, often angry sports fans should not have guns.

YES THEY SHOULD ! IT IS THEIR GOD GIVEN RIGHT AS AN AMERICAN!!! IT'S IN THE CONSTITUTION !!

SURE LETS JUST *CHANGE* AN AMENDMENT... ::)


Not sure Americans need a lecture from *hooligans* on sports fan etiquette.

:lol I can't stand football. But I don't think English footie hooligan crime is a big a problem as Gun Crime in the US and A :tup

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #19 on: December 11, 2016, 06:14:21 PM »
And, if/when you come to StL I better get a PM and meetup  :tup

Depends if you bring Kev or not! :lol

Well, Kansas City is on my bucket list. (I was born in KC). My son is a huge Titanic fan so Branson is on the list, and I'd like to see the Arch and go to a Card's game.


When we went to LA a couple years ago, we planned an afternoon game to see the Dodgers. Unfortunately when we were in Denver last summer, it was a night game, but we literally parked across the street and left after the 5th anyway.

I remember years ago (2000 I think) we went to a night game at Camden Yards and I felt very unsafe walking back.

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #20 on: December 11, 2016, 06:23:52 PM »
 :lol

 
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Jester

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #21 on: December 11, 2016, 06:39:29 PM »
:lol I can't stand football. But I don't think English footie hooligan crime is a big a problem as Gun Crime in the US and A :tup
Bastard.  Piss off.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #22 on: December 11, 2016, 06:44:43 PM »
And, if/when you come to StL I better get a PM and meetup  :tup

Depends if you bring Kev or not! :lol

Well, Kansas City is on my bucket list. (I was born in KC). My son is a huge Titanic fan so Branson is on the list, and I'd like to see the Arch and go to a Card's game.


When we went to LA a couple years ago, we planned an afternoon game to see the Dodgers. Unfortunately when we were in Denver last summer, it was a night game, but we literally parked across the street and left after the 5th anyway.

I remember years ago (2000 I think) we went to a night game at Camden Yards and I felt very unsafe walking back.

The only reason Stl should be on someone's bucket list is if they plan on kicking the bucket in St. Louis.

C'mon Man  :lol      We have the City Museum. That's world renowned and consistently in the top things to see Nationally.


And TAC.....I'll get Kev there  :tup
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #23 on: December 11, 2016, 06:46:08 PM »
:lol I can't stand football. But I don't think English footie hooligan crime is a big a problem as Gun Crime in the US and A :tup
Bastard.  Piss off.

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Online Adami

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2016, 06:48:13 PM »
:lol I can't stand football. But I don't think English footie hooligan crime is a big a problem as Gun Crime in the US and A :tup
Bastard.  Piss off.

:angry: You wanna fackin say that to mah face yo kant ? I'll deck ya - swear on me life m8

What I would give for an audio recording of you saying that.
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Online TAC

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2016, 06:50:15 PM »
And TAC.....I'll get Kev there  :tup

No no, I meant leave him home! :lol

Actually, Kev and I have seen eye to eye lately. :)

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums........or WTF.  ;D
TAC got a higher score than me in the electronic round? Honestly, can I just drop out now? :lol

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2016, 07:00:35 PM »
:lol I can't stand football. But I don't think English footie hooligan crime is a big a problem as Gun Crime in the US and A :tup
Bastard.  Piss off.

:angry: You wanna fackin say that to mah face yo kant ? I'll deck ya - swear on me life m8

What I would give for an audio recording of you saying that.

My voice isn't how you'd expect. I'm definitely don't have a LAHNDAN accent. I was born in England - lived in Dubai for 8 years. Back to Wales - then England again - then back to Wales :P

Online Adami

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2016, 07:02:04 PM »
That's exactly why I want to hear it. I've already heard that stuff in the typical Vinnie Jones voice.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2016, 07:02:27 PM »
That's exactly why I want to hear it. I've already heard that stuff in the typical Vinnie Jones voice.

To Be Continued...

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2016, 08:06:40 PM »
And TAC.....I'll get Kev there  :tup

No no, I meant leave him home! :lol

Actually, Kev and I have seen eye to eye lately. :)


Offline Chino

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2016, 07:55:54 AM »
Allow fans to "check in" their guns at station prior to the security check. Give their gun and any ammo to attendant who holds it until after the game. Any guns found at the security check get confiscated. When fan goes to pick up gun after leaving the stadium, has to pass a breathalyzer before having gun returned. If fan fails breathalyzer then they can come pick up the gun at a future date/time.
*snip*

Any responsible CCW permit holder is not going to drink/get drunk and carry anyway. You can lose your permit if you do that for one....it's just idiotic. And despite the picture that is often tried to be painted about the 'crazy red neck gun lovers'....the gun crowd I know is absolutely responsible and wouldn't think of carrying their gun if they were drinking.

I agreed with almost everything in your post except for this little bit. I know several people that have their CC permit here in CT and couldn't hit a piece of paper 20' away if you gave them three magazines worth of attempts. They want the gun because they can, and many don't have the desire to learn how to properly use it. Most of the people I know that carry haven't fired a weapon since receiving the permit. One would hope that CC permit holders would be responsible, especially given the fact they could lose the permit if they commit an infraction, but I don't think you have to look much further than a driver's license to prove that one wrong. How many people still drive wasted, or do in excess of 120mph just for fun?

Then there are people like this rocket scientist (not actually a rocket scientist);

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/12/11/mich-woman-who-shot-at-shoplifters-gets-18-months-probation-vows-to-never-help-anybody-again/?utm_term=.4ca4a41445d3

Not saying you're wrong. I'm sure your gun crowd is very different than mine. I'm just pointing out that regardless who you know and how they behave, there are plenty of bad apples out there to ruin a good thing.


Offline El Barto

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2016, 08:16:30 AM »
There were a lot of ifs in GMD's statement. Chino just pointed out one of the big ones. Not all CCW are as responsible as he is. Moreover, alcohol effects people differently. How many CCW folk will say "I'm only going to drink 2 beers during the game because I'm packing today?" Many of them won't succeed. But the bigger issue is that by removing the need to keep CCW guns out, you're removing the safeguard to keep non-CCW guns out. That is, unless you're going to train the lackeys manning the metal detectors to check for permits which doesn't seem practical.

Personally, I'm just grateful that I don't have to live my life so worried that I plan my day to day activities based on my ability to keep a gun on me at all times. If I felt that it were necessary I think I'd be learning Deutsch or Romansh as quickly as I could and getting the fuck out of here.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Guns in sports stadiums???
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2016, 11:12:12 AM »
Brian and EB-
  Totally get your point about the tendencies and habits of people in general...especially when Alcohol is involved. I like Dark Castle's idea the best because it satisfies both parties involved. In fact, a group of Veteran's had a business idea they wanted to implement at Bush Stadium this year, but ultimately ran into red tape. They had a large mobile box van outfitted with safes and it was a gun check. Give them your weapon as you enter the game, pay your fee....get your gun back when the game is over for your walk back to your vehicle. They ran into regulatory issues with the city as the city fought them tooth and nail. One bar that is right next to the stadium even offered to rent them several parking spaces to help...but they couldn't get the permit. Come to think of it...I need to check and see where they are with this right now.


Here's something that will frighten you...speaking to Brian's point of people he knows that don't practice at all. It's no secret I'm more pro gun than anti gun....but I don't take that responsibility lightly. If my weapon isn't on me it's locked up...I practice regularly, the whole deal. Missouri recently passed a law that you don't even have to register for a CCW now, everyone can just conceal. The same limitations pertain as if you had a CCW but essentially the class is no longer required. Again, totally pro gun but this is just a retarded law. The number of unqualified, untrained, uneducated people running around with concealed guns now frightens me. It lends just one more thing for me to think about if ever I had the notion that I should use my weapon.
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind