Do you still LOVE Dream Theater??

[hefdaddy42]

Yep, still love them.

[SwedishGoose]

Been loving them since I saw Pull Me Under on Headbanger's Ball back in the day.
Loving the latest album and tour the most.... it's Astonishing

[Jester]

I still love DT I&W to Octavarium.  After that, it is really hit and miss.  I fell out of love with WDADU.  That love probably had more to do with needing to listen to more than just I&W at the time.

As far as critique, I think talking about their music should be fair game.  When all is said and done, that's the product they are selling.  I cringe when it turns to talk about JP's hair, JM's introverted personality or just things that seem to be more of a critique of them as people.  And it is easy to get caught up in with a forum full of people talking about it.  Sometimes I quickly post a response to join in on those and then think "what am I doing?"  Hopefully it is before I hit "Post" that I come to my senses.

I will say The Astonishing has probably taking me to my lowest level of *like* for current DT.  When it came out, I knew I didn't love it.  Before it came out I knew it because I really think The Gift of Music is cheesy and that was the first release.  The story and some of the "hallelujah" choir really gets to me.  Actually, I just thought it was ok when it came out.  I stopped listening for months, put it on a couple days ago and with fresh ears realized, I really don't like some of these songs.  However, I still find moments I still genuinely love like "A Life Left Behind" and the intro to "A Tempting Offer".  Those are on the love level.

As long as you are giving honest feedback and not throwing in extreme hyperbole that more or less makes it seem like the band can do no right by you, it seems like a good place for the band to get real feedback.  We wouldn't be doing them any favors if they put out "Dedicated to Chaos" and gave them fanboy reviews of "Wow.  They really are pushing the edge.  This is genius."  But in reality, we hate it.

But constantly talking about Myung's introversion nonstop.  What does that do but possibly give the guy a complex and make it worse?  If you notice signs of them aging, does talking about it mean Petrucci is going to take that "constructive criticism" and realize he needs to stop getting older?

Bleh.  Feel like this is a recurring conversation ..... thinking about hitting delete.

[bosk1]

I still love DT I&W to Octavarium.  After that, it is really hit and miss.  I fell out of love with WDADU.  That love probably had more to do with needing to listen to more than just I&W at the time.

As far as critique, I think talking about their music should be fair game.  When all is said and done, that's the product they are selling.  I cringe when it turns to talk about JP's hair, JM's introverted personality or just things that seem to be more of a critique of them as people.  And it is easy to get caught up in with a forum full of people talking about it.  Sometimes I quickly post a response to join in on those and then think "what am I doing?"  Hopefully it is before I hit "Post" that I come to my senses.

I will say The Astonishing has probably taking me to my lowest level of *like* for current DT.  When it came out, I knew I didn't love it.  Before it came out I knew it because I really think The Gift of Music is cheesy and that was the first release.  The story and some of the "hallelujah" choir really gets to me.  Actually, I just thought it was ok when it came out.  I stopped listening for months, put it on a couple days ago and with fresh ears realized, I really don't like some of these songs.  However, I still find moments I still genuinely love like "A Life Left Behind" and the intro to "A Tempting Offer".  Those are on the love level.

As long as you are giving honest feedback and not throwing in extreme hyperbole that more or less makes it seem like the band can do no right by you, it seems like a good place for the band to get real feedback.  We wouldn't be doing them any favors if they put out "Dedicated to Chaos" and gave them fanboy reviews of "Wow.  They really are pushing the edge.  This is genius."  But in reality, we hate it.

But constantly talking about Myung's introversion nonstop.  What does that do but possibly give the guy a complex and make it worse?  If you notice signs of them aging, does talking about it mean Petrucci is going to take that "constructive criticism" and realize he needs to stop getting older?

Bleh.  Feel like this is a recurring conversation ..... thinking about hitting delete.

Too late!  I quoted it.    Good post.

[cramx3]

I sill love DT.  Sometimes I am negative too, but just as a discussion point, not that I actually dislike DT.  I've been vocal on TA tour, but I think for as much negatives that I point out, I also point out as much positives.  For me, it's really just about discussion not negativity.

[Peace and Love]

Thanks everyone for the discussion. I do agree that some criticism is of course justified and permitted and defensible. But I guess my point was, similar to Jester's that sometimes it seems to go overboard.

[cramx3]

Thanks everyone for the discussion. I do agree that some criticism is of course justified and permitted and defensible. But I guess my point was, similar to Jester's that sometimes it seems to go overboard.

It definitely does.  I think the mods here do a good job at keeping the discussion as meaningful and not just bashing the band.  But sometimes those negativities are what's interesting and discussion worthy which often goes under nitpicking as well. 

[Another_Won]

Yep, still love them.

Me too!

I have been thinking about the negative comments and thought the same thing.  It was nice to see some of the people that had posted negative comments explain them and say they still love DT.

[CB]

My love for them still grows, with each album and especially with each live show.

[Samsara]

You know what I DO love about Dream Theater? The fact they achieved success doing it their way. Their fanbase got huge after SFAM, and really continued to expand with every record and tour until probably TA, where it probably just stayed the same.That is an incredible statement by the band, particularly after slugging it out for 14 years, and then, after all that time, popularity just started to soar.

Yes, the Internet had something to do with it, particularly for this style of music. But the major reason are the guys in the band just sticking with what they do. I may not like a lot of the newer tunes, but I'm in the minority. DT has achieved huge success, and as a fellow native Long Islander, I'm pretty proud of the band, and I love their resilience.

[TAC]

You know what I DO love about Dream Theater? The fact they achieved success doing it their way. Their fanbase got huge after SFAM, and really continued to expand with every record and tour until probably TA, where it probably just stayed the same.That is an incredible statement by the band, particularly after slugging it out for 14 years, and then, after all that time, popularity just started to soar.

Yes, the Internet had something to do with it, particularly for this style of music. But the major reason are the guys in the band just sticking with what they do. I may not like a lot of the newer tunes, but I'm in the minority. DT has achieved huge success, and as a fellow native Long Islander, I'm pretty proud of the band, and I love their resilience.

I remember going to the shows in the 90's and every successive show had more and more people there. It was amazing to see them catch fire.

[bl5150]

I still love 90's Dream Theater.

I will love them forever for recording one of my top few albums ever - Images and Words.  If they had stopped there I may well love them even more      I'm very up and down with the rest of the catalogue.    I am not really interested in The Astonishing but that's more to do with the whole "musical" thing .............the more melodic , song focused approach of the last few albums has created renewed interest in new material after a long period of more casual interest from FII through SC.

[ChuckSteak]

Fanboyism also goes overboard and nobody complains about it. 

[RoeDent]

Fanboyism also goes overboard and nobody complains about it. 

Why is being enthusiastic about how much one loves a band just dismissed as mere "fanboyism"? There's more than enough hate in the world; spreading positive vibes can only be a good thing.

[SwedishGoose]

Fanboyism also goes overboard and nobody complains about it. 

Fanboyism is such a negative word isn't it.. it iplies that the person would support anything that the object of his fanboyism does.
It's not fanboyism to love an album or a tour that others hate. It would be fanboyism to say you love something wich you really hate.

[DoctorAction]

I love 'em still. Have put out so much incredible music. But they have been sorely testing my patience from SC onwards! 

[Adami]

I like them. Still love everything through 6 Degrees. And songs here and there since then. Was a bigger fan of TA than I was the previous bunch of albums.

[DreamerTV]

Of course not

[ChuckSteak]

Why is being enthusiastic about how much one loves a band just dismissed as mere "fanboyism"? There's more than enough hate in the world; spreading positive vibes can only be a good thing.

I didn't say that being enthusiastic about how much one loves a band is fanboyism. That's your definition. I see nothing wrong with being enthusiastic, the problem arises when people are uncapable of seeing any negative aspect about the band/thing they like. Usually they are not even conscious of it. The band becomes almost like a soccer team or a political party or a religion and then someone comes along and speaks negatively about it or criticizes and they get very irritated and defensive, as if they were defending their own identity, when it actually doesn't matter at all.. it is just art, entertainment, taste.

Positive vibes are good, but so are negative ones. An equilibrium of both is ideal.

[King Postwhore]

I love them like Thanksgiving stuffing.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Fanboyism also goes overboard and nobody complains about it. 

Fanboyism is such a negative word isn't it.. it iplies that the person would support anything that the object of his fanboyism does.
It's not fanboyism to love an album or a tour that others hate. It would be fanboyism to say you love something wich you really hate.

Sounds like something a fanboy would say. 

[bl5150]

 

[Prog Snob]

I still love them. They're still my favorite band, and contrary to the Bibles of music reviews, RYM and Sputnik, I still think they put out some amazing music.

[Madman Shepherd]

At first I was in a bit of a huff thinking, "Of course I can be critical and still love them!"  Then I realized there are a lot of people that admitted to not loving them anymore and I'm wondering what the point of even coming here is.  I really didn't like TA but still love the band but if their next album was as bad I would probably consider myself out of love with DT.  If they did a third one I didn't like, I'd be done.  I already stopped posting here as much because I really don't care about anything they've doe in the last year.  I mean, the people here are cool and thoughtful but thats not enough to keep me posting in a forum about a band I would no longer care for. 

As it stands, even though I thought DT12 was a slight step down from ADTOE, I was still hardcore into these guys at that point.  Breaking the Fourth Wall was outstanding and reminded me why I love them so much.  TA was a huge misstep which is especially odd because I even love SC and parts of BC&SL so I am not used to actually *disliking* a DT album. 

So yes, I still love the band but I am kind of on a break with them.  Consider my love renewed when they tour for the I&W anniversary. 

[rumborak]

I don't know how much point there is to align bands along a love/hate axis.
I am old enough now that i just see bands phase in, and phase out. DT phased in in the 90s where they almost couldn't do wrong. Even their "duds" ( e.g. FII) later ended up in their top 10. But, just like every band in existence, there is a time when they are hot, and a time when they are not. Rush's heyday was in the late 70s and early 80s. DT's heyday was in the 90s. To me Steven Wilson is hot right now, and I'm sure in 10 years I will look at today and say "the good old days when Steven was on. Too bad his new stuff doesn't do it for me".

I don't know. DT try for sure, and I applaud them for that absolutely. But to me they simply joined the long list of bands that I regard highly as a band of great past, but whose late output is lacking. These guys are in their 50s, and as somebody said earlier, DT are in the "home stretch". Nothing wrong with that, but I also don't really expect magical things anymore. Only precious few artists managed to stay relevant over decades, and they did so by entirely reinventing themselves. DT, for better or for worse, stuck to what they do with reasonably little variation, and there's only so many times you can tread the same ground before you are repeating yourself.

Another aspect of this, somewhat related to this "reinvention" thing is, I remember reading an interview with Mikael Akerfeldt around the time Opeth massively switched style. One of his comments was "you know, I'm 40 now, and I don't want to continue doing death metal. Because you know, it's just not believable at this point."
In the same vein, when I see the clearly dyed hair and the "grimy biker" look DT has these days, I secretly wish they moved on from that and reinvented themselves into something ... for lack of a better term, "age appropriate". James can't sing these crazy-high notes anymore, and yes, JP's playing isn't as fluid as it used to be either.  They're already overdubbing a lot of stuff these days, and the number of backing tracks keeps increasing, and I really wouldn't want to see them drift into ever more and more constructed, sterile versions of themselves to keep up the façade. To say it succinctly, it would be a shame if DT becomes a Joan Rivers of prog metal. Especially when there's so many interesting musical directions they could take that would allow a more "honest" approach.

[SeRoX]

I still love them.

But my only negativity is their direction. I'll take whatever they do, that's for sure. TA for instance, not my thing but I listen it anyway. The menthality behind this is because it's coming from my favourite band. Still I get excited hearing new from DT and waiting their new stuff. But I gotta admit, James LaBrie is main reason I love them. This guy is a beast in my eyes, especially in the studio. I can't imagine DT without him. To me, voice is the signature of a band, other can change and I can get used to it but not vocal.

[Kotowboy]

After DT12 I wasn't sure but then The Astonishing sounded great again.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I don't know how much point there is to align bands along a love/hate axis.
I am old enough now that i just see bands phase in, and phase out. DT phased in in the 90s where they almost couldn't do wrong. Even their "duds" ( e.g. FII) later ended up in their top 10. But, just like every band in existence, there is a time when they are hot, and a time when they are not. Rush's heyday was in the late 70s and early 80s. DT's heyday was in the 90s. To me Steven Wilson is hot right now, and I'm sure in 10 years I will look at today and say "the good old days when Steven was on. Too bad his new stuff doesn't do it for me".

I don't know. DT try for sure, and I applaud them for that absolutely. But to me they simply joined the long list of bands that I regard highly as a band of great past, but whose late output is lacking. These guys are in their 50s, and as somebody said earlier, DT are in the "home stretch". Nothing wrong with that, but I also don't really expect magical things anymore. Only precious few artists managed to stay relevant over decades, and they did so by entirely reinventing themselves. DT, for better or for worse, stuck to what they do with reasonably little variation, and there's only so many times you can tread the same ground before you are repeating yourself.

Another aspect of this, somewhat related to this "reinvention" thing is, I remember reading an interview with Mikael Akerfeldt around the time Opeth massively switched style. One of his comments was "you know, I'm 40 now, and I don't want to continue doing death metal. Because you know, it's just not believable at this point."
In the same vein, when I see the clearly dyed hair and the "grimy biker" look DT has these days, I secretly wish they moved on from that and reinvented themselves into something ... for lack of a better term, "age appropriate". James can't sing these crazy-high notes anymore, and yes, JP's playing isn't as fluid as it used to be either.  They're already overdubbing a lot of stuff these days, and the number of backing tracks keeps increasing, and I really wouldn't want to see them drift into ever more and more constructed, sterile versions of themselves to keep up the façade. To say it succinctly, it would be a shame if DT becomes a Joan Rivers of prog metal. Especially when there's so many interesting musical directions they could take that would allow a more "honest" approach.

To be honest, Rumbo, I think that you're overthinking some of this stuff. And I know that sounds kind of weird. This is a forum for hardcore DT fans. That's what we do. We overthink stuff. It's part of the fun of it all.

At the end of the day, the band's probably going to continue writing the same kind of music they've always written because that's the kind of music they enjoy. Why stop doing what you love if you still love doing it?

Also, while I'm not a guitar expert, I feel confident in saying that JP is still playing at a world class level. All of the guys are. If there's been any decrease in proficiency - and frankly, I haven't noticed any - it's nowhere near panic level.

Finally, the comments on the band's look are starting to creep into that cringe category that Jester was referencing. Who cares, really?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it kind of sounds like you're just the kind of person who simply puts an expiration date on the bands you listen to. You obviously can confirm or deny, but I know a lot of people who get bored of bands after a certain number of albums, and I get that impression from your post. That's certainly not a bad thing, just an impression I got.

[Lethean]

I agree with the OP, tbh. There has been too much negativity around here in recent times. Not many people willing to stand up and defend DT, and especially The Astonishing, and counteract all of the hate. I quite honestly feel like I'm the only one round here who really enjoys the album, and loves every aspect of it. It's all "too long", "too piano-driven", "too many ballads", "not heavy enough", and so on. I have an incredibly hard time believing that I am really the only one on this forum for whom this album has a wonderful emotional impact, frequently inducing goosebumps and almost tears at times. There MUST be other appreciators out there! But sometimes I think that the slant towards negativity stops them from showing themselves, which is incredibly sad. And it makes the critics appear to win. Critics may well be a minority, but they are an incredibly vocal minority.

And in answer to the question, yes I do love Dream Theater. Two of my top three DT albums have been in the Mangini era.

Hello!  This seems like a good thread for my first post.  I am new here, but not new to Dream Theater, and I absolutely still love DT.  In fact I may love them now even more than ever. 

RoeDent - you are certainly not the only one who feels that way about The Astonishing.  It has had an emotional impact on me for sure - goosebumps, tears once or twice, and just feeling incredibly happy while listening to it and even more when seeing it live.  Too long?  No way.  I can appreciate that not everyone has the time to listen to it in one sitting.  I can't always do it either (but assume I do more than most), but every time I listen to any part of it, I at least wish that I could hear the whole thing.  Too piano driven, too many ballads, not heavy enough - not to me.  I consider myself a metal fan, and I love Train of Thought, The Glass Prison, and even The Dark Eternal Night (mostly).  But I also love Jordan's piano work, James' voice, and the lighter side of Dream Theater.  I also feel that The Astonishing isn't quite as "light" as it seems - especially live.  Even though the riffs aren't always so heavy, there is a heaviness to the dramatic aspects of it, if that makes sense.  I am very happy to have this album in my collection and still feel too excited by it to accurately say where it will end up ranked among the rest of their catalog.  Near the top, for sure.

[Jester]

Total fanboy.  100% of the posts have been praising Dream Theater.   

Welcome to DTF.

[cramx3]

After DT12 I wasn't sure but then The Astonishing sounded great again.

I'm not a huge complainer about production unless it's really bad (I would put LaLP in this catagory, but not really any of DT's albums), but TA, to me, sounds the best of any DT album in awhile.

[TAC]

   But I also love Jordan's piano work, James' voice, and the lighter side of Dream Theater.  I also feel that The Astonishing isn't quite as "light" as it seems - especially live.  Even though the riffs aren't always so heavy, there is a heaviness to the dramatic aspects of it, if that makes sense.  I am very happy to have this album in my collection and still feel too excited by it to accurately say where it will end up ranked among the rest of their catalog.  Near the top, for sure.

I'm not a huge complainer about production unless it's really bad (I would put LaLP in this catagory, but not really any of DT's albums), but TA, to me, sounds the best of any DT album in awhile.

I agree with this as well.

[Prog Snob]

I'm not a huge complainer about production unless it's really bad (I would put LaLP in this catagory, but not really any of DT's albums), but TA, to me, sounds the best of any DT album in awhile.

I agree with this as well.

I concur.

[NoseofNicko]

I loved them a decade ago, I still love them today.

[Serah Farron]

I'm not a huge complainer about production unless it's really bad (I would put LaLP in this catagory, but not really any of DT's albums), but TA, to me, sounds the best of any DT album in awhile.

I agree with this as well.

I concur.

+1 ^