Do you still LOVE Dream Theater??

[?]

I highly doubt RR was like "yo guys, here's a bunch of cash - go out and buy some black jeans and leather jackets!" I do think DT may have wanted to fit in with the rest of their roster (and the whole metal scene) though. Whether that was necessary is another question - in fact, Porcupine Tree took the opposite route and dressed in white for their press photos in order to stick out from the other RR bands:



https://www.dprp.net/wp/interviews/?page_id=2788

You know why we did that? It’s because we’re on Roadrunner, which is a metal label. And every single band on Roadrunner, when you look at their promotional pictures they’re always the same. Dressed is black, tattoos … and we thought let’s go in the opposite direction and let’s distance ourselves from that heavy rock metal cliché.

In other words: Do I think RR directly influenced DT's image? Hell no. Do I think DT felt the need to take their image in a more edgy and "metal" direction? Maybe.

[noxon]

Yeah, i think the image thing is much more of a band thing than a label thing. I know at least some members are highly concerned with looks.

[Prog Snob]

Who the hell cares what they're wearing? Shit, this is almost as bad as the hair discussion.

[BlobVanDam]

For once, I agree with Prog Snob.
I don't care how they look, they're free to wear whatever they want for whatever reason.

[IDontNotDoThings]

Why does everyone care so much about their image, shouldn't it be the words that matter?

[Prog Snob]

For once, I agree with Prog Snob.
I don't care how they look, they're free to wear whatever they want for whatever reason.

  

You finally came to your senses.    Kidding aside though, it's the people who find this important that concern me. Next they'll make a correlation between JP's bodybuilding and the music he writes. "Damn his muscles. Ever since he started doing reps, his groove has disappeared." 

[Bertielee]

For once, I agree with Prog Snob.
I don't care how they look, they're free to wear whatever they want for whatever reason.

  

You finally came to your senses.    Kidding aside though, it's the people who find this important that concern me. Next they'll make a correlation between JP's bodybuilding and the music he writes. "Damn his muscles. Ever since he started doing reps, his groove has disappeared." 

No way! But it has an impact on MM's groove, since he doesn't have any!
Back to the OP : TA has given me new hope in what the guys can do. Let's see what happens next.

B.Lee

[rumborak]

The danger of any of these online discussions is, the more "controversial" an opinion is, the more it will be discussed, but as a result people think it's something one then feels very strongly about. At least for me, that's not really the case.
I am merely pointing out that one aspect of DT "moving away from me" was the distinct shift in their image. I very much identified with them during their geek phase, but the whole metal image I don't connect with. I especially also agree with bosk's point that the music didn't really follow suit so much.

EDIT: HOWEVER, MM's caked-on black hair really made me do a double-take.

[erwinrafael]

I love them more today, especially now that I have matured and I have learnef to appreciate their musical journey over the decades.

[Mark Levinson Jr.]

I still love Dream Theater.... more than ever!

Princess Faythe captured my 8 year old daughter's interest and introduced her to what epic, progressive music is all about.
Don't get me wrong, she'll still listen to Katy Perry too, but now she'll also ask to hear some DT, Devin Townsend, Nightwish and others.
That just wouldn't have happened if not for the accessibility of The Astonishing, the story line, and of course good old Princess Faythe.

In fact, we were just lucky enough to get 7th row seats for The Astonishing tour, and my daughter was absolutely into it for the full 3 hours that we spent in those chairs.
If you have kids, you know that a 90 minute Pixar movie is often too long to keep their attention.

More amazingly, at that show, my wife and my almost 70-year-old mother in law were there. (My mother in law grew up on Gospel music but loves DT as much as anyone now)
So - I was at DT with 3 generations of women in tow! Tears were shed by at least 2 of us, LOL.

They bring my family together. They are great role models for my child. They are the best thing to think about when the world gets you down.
I can't think of another band that's so positive, motivating, thought provoking, spiritual, entertaining or disciplined.

The force for good that Dream Theater has been in my life since the 90's is bigger than a member change can undo.
Moore or Ruddess. Portnoy or Mangini.
Dream Theater is one of the best things I know about in life, in any category.

[Evai]

I LOVE fucking Dream Theater.

[BlobVanDam]

I'd perhaps swap a couple of those words around to avoid any ambiguity with that sentence.

[Prog Snob]

Or maybe that really is how he feels.

[TAC]

Who doesn't?

[Prog Snob]

This will be the thread that JP happens to read. 

[TAC]

Meanstreak has a new album title.

[Another_Won]

Meanstreak has a new album title.

Now THAT is funny!

[noxon]

Princess Faythe

[Tony From Long Island]

I LOVE fucking Dream Theater.

I'm sure that's not the first time those words were stated in that order . . . .ahhh the good old days before marriages . . .

[Evai]

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Image matters.  Period.

I played a multi band benefit gig once.  A band on the bill that day, who was brand new on the scene, came walking into the venue carrying their guitars and such.  Long hair.  Black leather.  Ripped jeans.  Jack Daniels shirts.  Etc.  We nearly shat ourselves in excitement, because we KNEW these guys were going to be fucking AWESOME.  We hadn't heard one single note out of these guys, but we knew they were going to rock our fucking faces off.  And they did.

[Tony From Long Island]

Image matters.  Period.

I played a multi band benefit gig once.  A band on the bill that day, who was brand new on the scene, came walking into the venue carrying their guitars and such.  Long hair.  Black leather.  Ripped jeans.  Jack Daniels shirts.  Etc.  We nearly shat ourselves in excitement, because we KNEW these guys were going to be fucking AWESOME.  We hadn't heard one single note out of these guys, but we knew they were going to rock our fucking faces off.  And they did.

And I have played the same where we saw the same and they sucked.    I think they were called Idiot Manchild, which should have been a clue.   Ya still have to be able to play.

[cramx3]

Image is definitely important, but a good image doesn't mean a good band.  A good band does need a good image to start getting recognized though.

[Prog Snob]

I fail to see the correlation between a good image meaning good music, just like a bad image doesn't necessarily mean bad music. Firstly, it's all relative. Secondly, there's no way to prove that it's a sound way to judge musicians. When I hear music, the first thing that crosses my mind isn't, "oh man, I hope those guys know how to dress." People are free to be concerned about that sort of thing, but that doesn't mean it's always accurate just because coincidence comes into play.

[mikeyd23]

Image is definitely important, but a good image doesn't mean a good band.  A good band does need a good image to start getting recognized though.

BINGO.

[CB]

JR:
"It even matters to us how we look."
Combing his beard: "You know, we do care about that. We might not be the best-dressed rock band in the business ...
However, we consider that, we care about it, we're, you know, we take these things into consideration, and we want to put on a great experience"
(JR about Image, from the LALP documentary )

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Image is way more important in front of an audience than most people would like to admit.  It's part of why 80's bands were so successful.  Image.  Presentation.  Show.  Fun.  That's not to say that all of those 80's acts were the pinnacle of musicianship (we're not even going to get into that ridiculous back and forth here, though I'm sure that getting a jab in from somewhere will prove irresistible), but if I have to choose between a band that has wild hair and flashy clothes and raises hell, but plays less involved music and a band that stands there most of the time, looking like they just walked off a Dept. of Transportation road crew and plays stuff your average person couldn't read the sheet music for, I'm going to go with the first band.

[hefdaddy42]

Well, I certainly want to see someone put on a good show.  But I also want to see great music.  If the extent of their great show is the way they look, or run around the stage acting a fool, that wears off for me after a song or two.  After that, they better have some chops or some interesting music to perform.

Image isn't everything, there also has to be substance.  80's bands amped up their image to the point that too many of them were "all show, no go", and people got tired of that shit. 

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I wasn't suggesting that image is the be all end all for me.  Of course there still has to be good music.  And for me, those same 80's bands' music delivered the goods, so I got the best of both worlds.

[hefdaddy42]

FWIW, if we are talking about just showmanship, the best show I've ever seen put on at a concert was Garth Brooks.  That dude (and his band) put the pedal down to the floor at the start, and go hard for close to three hours.

But he is nowhere near my favorite musician/artist (which is no disrespect to him, just not my favorite kind of music).

[Tony From Long Island]

Sir Cosmo Kramer:   " . . . . .That's not to say that all of those 80's acts were the pinnacle of musicianship (we're not even going to get into that ridiculous back and forth here, though I'm sure that getting a jab in from somewhere will prove irresistible),  . . . . "

Some were, some weren't.  I've seen Poison several times.  Great and Fun show.  CC DeVille is not exactly a technical giant  (though I actually love his solo on "Life Goes On").    Saw the KISS reunion tour in 96. Great presentation fun show.

On the other hand, I've seen hair bands with good musicianship also. Ratt comes to mind  Widowmaker also.      Al Pitrelli on guitar and the Mighty Joe Franco on drums.     He might be the most underrated drummer on earth.   His playing with the Good Rats was years ahead of it's time.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Fuck yeah. 

[bosk1]

Sometimes, a band makes it because they write/play good music.  Sometimes, the band are also composed of guys who are excellent musicians, so it is on purpose.  Other times, they just luck out or have good outside writers.

Other times, a not-so-good band makes it in spite of their lacking musicianship because they have an image or gimmick that fans can relate to or latch onto for whatever reason.

A few bands have both.

Music is a funny thing that way.  Both sides of the equation strike a chord on almost subconscious emotional levels and can make us like a band for wholly subjective reasons.  Who is to say one is more right than the other?

[cramx3]

if I have to choose between a band that has wild hair and flashy clothes and raises hell, but plays less involved music and a band that stands there most of the time, looking like they just walked off a Dept. of Transportation road crew and plays stuff your average person couldn't read the sheet music for, I'm going to go with the first band.

But DT just stands there and plays music that many cannot understand, I don't think it takes anything away from them at all.  I don't think every band is about putting on a show and being all rock n roll.  I think that adds a lot to a live experience and certainly can bring a lot of exposure to the band, but no matter how a band looks/presents itself, to me the band with the better music is the band I am more interested in. 

Also, I love 80s metal and hair metal too, but for me, it has nothing to do with looks which for the most part are pretty terrible IMO (looking at it now of course, I was only a baby in the 80s so living it might have been different).

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I should point out that I should not be misinterpreted as saying "80's bands are better because looks and flash".  Just saying that image and look is a more important part of the equation than some would like to bring to the table sometimes.