Do you still LOVE Dream Theater??

[Peace and Love]

I presume that all of us here were at some point in our lives huge Dream Theater fans. That's why we bothered to look up this website and devote hours to reading it and discussing the band. At that stage, I would say each and every one of us LOVED the band.

But all I read here nowadays is constant negativity. People examine everything the band releases, says in interviews, their body language, what they eat for lunch, under a microscope to put a negative slant on it. This is not love - this not even being a fan. This is being a person who desperately wants something to complain about.

1) MM's body language was bad and he wants to quit.
2) MM's drumming is too boring or too complex to understand.
3) MM and JM are being dominated and neglected by the bullies JP and JR.
4) MP is a bad person who must be brought up in every conversation, no matter the context, and bashed.
5) The Astonishing sucks.
6) The Astonishing sucks - the 2nd leg of the tour is a failure.
7) They shouldn't have played only The Astonishing - it alienated fans who wanted to hear other songs.
8) They shouldn't have added older songs to the encore - it alienated those fans who wanted to hear the entire Astonishing.
9) JP lip-syncs the backup vocals. So bad. Very bad.
10) JLB's stage clothes are immature and he is a poseur. Just wear everyday clothes, man.
11) Why the heck are they celebrating I&W!?? They should celebrate FII, or whatever album I WANT TO BE CELEBRATED!
12) JLB's live singing sucks!! He sounds like a dying animal.
13) Why does DT overdub live releases? They are the only band in the world that does this. FRAUDS.
14) They should have taken a break when MP asked for one. Burnt out.
15) How dare MP ask for a break and blackmail the band? This is their livelihood we're talking about!
16) The attendance at the shows is so poor. "At the show I attended, the theater was more than half empty. Sad..."
17) They are finished, just become a nostalgia act already.
18) They are making a video game for TA?? Such a stupid idea. Nobody will want to buy that - especially not me.
19) They are making a TA novel? Who'd read that. Seriously.
20) Whoa, they hired a really cool writer who is a big DT fan? I wish he'd proof read his essays though. What an amateur. The novel will suck.


You guys are fans?? This negativity really gets me down.

[JiM-Xtreme]

So, basically, people who love the band are not allowed to be critical of them in any way?

EDIT: For the record, yes, I still love this band.

[faizoff]

What's funny is as I'm going through that list of things OP wrote, that's the one thing that hasn't changed since I've been interacting online with the DT forums one place or another be it the old dreamtheater.net forum, or mp.com forum or here or anywhere else... the same set of issues keep cycling in and out. so.. basically I'd say welcome to 2001? Nothing I haven't seen before and I've been following them for 25 years now.

[BlobVanDam]

You're taking every single negative comment you've seen and over-simplifying and exaggerating them, beyond what I've seen anyone actually say in most cases. Context matters.
All of those points have had equally many or even more people on the opposite side of the argument too. The idea that a band is beyond criticism is the kind of thing I expect from fanboys (not accusing you of either of those things, just a generalization), which gets tiring really fast. It seems nowadays people are so sheltered from criticism that when they see a little bit of it, they overreact and that's all they see, even if it's otherwise 95% glowing praise.
Being a fan isn't about blindly loving everything. The majority of people on this sub-forum still enjoy/love the band's recent output, tbh a lot more than most places on the internet. I actually can't think of anywhere more positive if you're into DT's recent albums.

This is a fan forum, and we discuss everything. That often involves nitpicking details. That's the kind of thing fans do, pore over every bit of information to gain further knowledge and appreciation on something they love, because we care! And it may not all be super happy fun time everything is awesome. This is what works for DTF, and has worked for over a decade now.

[bosk1]

Do you still LOVE Dream Theater??

YES! 

I presume that all of us here were at some point in our lives huge Dream Theater fans. That's why we bothered to look up this website and devote hours to reading it and discussing the band. At that stage, I would say each and every one of us LOVED the band.

But all I read here nowadays is constant negativity. People examine everything the band releases, says in interviews, their body language, what they eat for lunch, under a microscope to put a negative slant on it. This is not love - this not even being a fan. This is being a person who desperately wants something to complain about.

...

You guys are fans?? This negativity really gets me down.

Yeah, I can understand that.  But, honestly, it's nothing new.  And another thing to keep in mind is that, when you take a step back and look at it objectively, there really isn't a lot of negativity when you put it in context.  It is the Internet, and people somehow feel empowered to post without filters and without thinking nearly as much as they would if talking face-to-face.  That's part of it.  Another thing to keep in mind is that those who are critical are a minority.  Most of what is posted is fairly positive.  But when there isn't as much going on with the band, there just isn't as much to post, so positive or even neutral posts and fewer.  That makes the negative posts stand out more (and they already stand out just be virtue of being negative). 

Or to put it another way:

What's funny is as I'm going through that list of things OP wrote, that's the one thing that hasn't changed since I've been interacting online with the DT forums one place or another be it the old dreamtheater.net forum, or mp.com forum or here or anywhere else... the same set of issues keep cycling in and out. so.. basically I'd say welcome to 2001? Nothing I haven't seen before and I've been following them for 25 years now.

Bottom line is, I wouldn't let it get you down.  That's not to say that it won't if you are a fan.  Heck, you can ask the rest of the mod staff here or those who post on here that are face-to-face friends of mine in real life, and they will tell you that it has at times worn me down over the years to the point where I have thought several times about whether to pull the plug on this place.  But at those times, I step back and try to put things in context as I mentioned above, and I realize that the positive far outweighs the negative.  And that is true about so many things in life.

[Tony From Long Island]

I think the reason I have been so critical of The Astonishing is precisely because I love the band so much


You can be a fan and be critical at the same time.   Yes, the people on this board are, for the most part, not just your average fan, but I would say that we all still Love DT

[bosk1]

I think the reason I have been so critical of The Astonishing is precisely because I love the band so much


You can be a fan and be critical at the same time.   Yes, the people on this board are, for the most part, not just your average fan, but I would say that we all still Love DT

Yeah, I meant to say some of that in my post as well.  I think that is true for a good many people who post here.  Not all, but most.

[TheOutlawXanadu]

I absolutely still love Dream Theater! They're one of my five favorite bands ever and easily my favorite to follow.

I agree with those above who say that these forums have always had negativity; however, I also agree with the OP that all the negativity can be a bummer at times. Constructive criticism is fair game, but there's a fine line between that and just being dramatic. In my opinion, the internet basically always goes over that line.

[JiM-Xtreme]

As Blob said, this is a Dream Theater discussion forum. A vital part of being able to discuss stuff is to be able express our opinions honestly and truthfully. If everyone on here was only allowed to say that the band is perfect and can do no wrong, not only would that be against the principle of free speech but it would also make these quite a boring and pointless place to spend time.

You have apparently latched on to a large number of recent points of discussion and twisted them to make them all people are doing is bashing DT. Now, I believe this forum has a pretty strict "no-bashing" policy whilst still allowing a fair degree of scope for criticism. None of what I have seen on this forum recently with regard to the issues you've raised comes across bashing to me.

I love my girlfriend, but that doesn't mean I have to pretend to be blind to all her flaws. In fact, I would say that I love her in spite of her imperfections. Additionally, it means I can actually help her work on the things she wants to work on in order to make her a better person. By the same token, if DT does something that we find questionable or doesn't quite work for us, we're entitled to express that here, possibly in the hope that they might pick up on the criticism and work on becoming a better band as a result. But that doesn't mean we don't love them.

[emtee]

For me liking/loving the band is a different proposition than liking/loving the music. They earned a degree of loyalty through the years
because of what they did for the fans. That aspect will never change.

But like all bands they sometimes make music I don't connect with strongly. For me this has been the case since ToT. Chunks of
the following albums were very appealing to me while other chunks were not. I will always buy their music on the first day of release and
continue to hope that some day they make an album that really blows me away again from beginning to end, like SDoIT did.

[Tony From Long Island]

" . . . . 4) MP is a bad person who must be brought up in every conversation, no matter the context, and bashed.  . . . . "

I am the opposite.  I will pretty much defend MP whenever possible and wish and long for the day when all is right with the world and he is behind the throne again  :-)


" . . . . . 13) Why does DT overdub live releases? They are the only band in the world that does this. FRAUDS. . . . . "

HA!  It's pretty much the opposite.  I loved Once In a LIVEtime when it came out because it had NO OVERDUBS at all.  I loved when the mic cut out for an instant during VOICES.  Yes, I have noticed some fixes in the last few, some background vocal samples, etc, but DT does this far less than other live albums.

I remember when I heard "Eternal Live" by Slaughter. I don't think one single not was actually live before an audience.

[Tony From Long Island]

Jim Extreme:  "  . . . . I believe this forum has a pretty strict "no-bashing" policy whilst still allowing a fair degree of scope for criticism. . . . ."

I learned that the hard way recently!     :-)

[rumborak]

I absolutely love their old stuff, and I've seen them live for every album since Awake. I just feel they lost their way lately.

[El Barto]

Nope. Pretty indifferent to their continued existence, in fact. Like Rumbo I love their old stuff, but those days are long gone. Their music is alright, but their live show holds very little interest for me.

[TAC]

I almost made a similar thread yesterday, but I wasn't quite sure how to present it. I was thinking along the lines of someone "growing out" of liking a band.

The negativity gets to me as well, and I usually post about it, as I did last week. It's tiring. It really can be.

But I agree that the positivity does outweigh the negativity. We are really just a bunch of fans shooting the shit. Also, the reason some of the negative stuff is discussed is because usually the positive is a given. Kind of like discussing the faults of the 25th guy on a baseball team or the team's 5th starter.


I LOVE Dream Theater. Has been my favorite band since I saw them take the stage in 1992. I haven't loved everything they have done, and The Astonishing gave me two things that I was getting frustrated with. In that two of the most underrated and unused elements of the band has been basically ignored for a while now. And that is having piano driven songs and using all of James' range.

[Architeuthis]

I actually think we all love the band so much, people post their concerns about potential problems the band may face yet over think it. Personally, I've been a fan of DT since Images and Words came out and they've never lost me along the way. In fact, DT was saving grace for music in the 90's for me when the grunge scene took over and the mainstream seemed to go with a more drabb anti-guitar solo formula.  They never conformed to any formula and never compromised and have continued to put out great albums and master their craft!  They have established a hard core fan base with hardly any radio exposure, yet their musicianship surpasses the mainstream by a huge margin in most cases.  I wish they could cross over into the mainstream a little bit without compromise, kind of like what Rush did with Moving Pictures.   Dream Theater needs to put out their own Moving Pictures type album to put them more on the map and reach arena status. Maybe they don't want that and are happy where they are at.
 Point being, I'll always love DT no matter what they are doing! 

[Tony From Long Island]

TAC said:  " . . . .the most underrated and unused elements of the band has been basically ignored for a while now. And that is having piano driven songs and using all of James' range. . . . "


You have to remember, James isn't James of 1994 anymore.      I have such respect for the way James has been able to keep it up all this time.

I am only 42 and am currently recording "It's Not Love"  by Dokken.   Five years ago I could pull it off on any night.   Now, I have to give it a try every few days and see if I can get a keeper.

You can go to my mediocre songs on the link below and hear me warble some Dokken.   I have not posted my attempts at "Caught In a Web," "Under a Glass Moon," or "Pull Me Under" because I might break soundcloud if I do!!!!  Is it possible for an entire website to laugh at me?   :-)

[Zydar]

I don't love them anymore, no. I'm out of that phase now, and TA just confirmed it. I'm more interested in other bands (and genres) nowadays.

[JRuless]

How I want not to but I feel quit the same as the OP.
I'm not a big poster but I am looking here mostly every day. 
I switched to DTF.org from MP.com after Mike left DT. The big difference IMO is that Mike was part of The Forum and was able to set the tone if needed (if discussion was based on wrong presumptions or so) so the overall tone was quit pleasant, and he constantly was able to bring some news and freshen up the discussion....as I only read the Dream Theater part of the forum I dont know about the tone in the other forumsparts

[RoeDent]

I agree with the OP, tbh. There has been too much negativity around here in recent times. Not many people willing to stand up and defend DT, and especially The Astonishing, and counteract all of the hate. I quite honestly feel like I'm the only one round here who really enjoys the album, and loves every aspect of it. It's all "too long", "too piano-driven", "too many ballads", "not heavy enough", and so on. I have an incredibly hard time believing that I am really the only one on this forum for whom this album has a wonderful emotional impact, frequently inducing goosebumps and almost tears at times. There MUST be other appreciators out there! But sometimes I think that the slant towards negativity stops them from showing themselves, which is incredibly sad. And it makes the critics appear to win. Critics may well be a minority, but they are an incredibly vocal minority.

And in answer to the question, yes I do love Dream Theater. Two of my top three DT albums have been in the Mangini era.

[w_marano]

I agree with the OP, tbh. There has been too much negativity around here in recent times. Not many people willing to stand up and defend DT, and especially The Astonishing, and counteract all of the hate. I quite honestly feel like I'm the only one round here who really enjoys the album, and loves every aspect of it. It's all "too long", "too piano-driven", "too many ballads", "not heavy enough", and so on. I have an incredibly hard time believing that I am really the only one on this forum for whom this album has a wonderful emotional impact, frequently inducing goosebumps and almost tears at times. There MUST be other appreciators out there! But sometimes I think that the slant towards negativity stops them from showing themselves, which is incredibly sad. And it makes the critics appear to win. Critics may well be a minority, but they are an incredibly vocal minority.

+1. Totally agree with you. I feel the same about The Astonishing!

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

I still love 90's Dream Theater.

[Architeuthis]

I feel the same about TA.  I think it is one of the best albums put out by any band in history! I still listen to it alot and probably always will.  It was a incredible concert experience too. I'm glad I got to attend, hopefully this show will be documented someday..

[mikeyd23]

But sometimes I think that the slant towards negativity stops them from showing themselves, which is incredibly sad. And it makes the critics appear to win. Critics may well be a minority, but they are an incredibly vocal minority.

Good post, grabbing this part because, with all due respect (because I love this community), this has been my overall perception of this place since the day I joined.

Also - you aren't alone. I love TA, I think it's fantastic and many others here do as well.

[gzarruk]

Yes, I still LOVE the band 

[Samsara]

In answer to the OP, no, I don't still LOVE Dream Theater. But I never "LOVED" them as my favorite band. They were A favorite (of many) for maybe eight years -- from when I first heard them in 1996, to about 2004.  Then I gravitated away from them after not liking what came after all that much. I agree negativity sucks (trust me, I know all about that on a forum), but there's no way to avoid it and still have a communicative, vibrant, forum.

People have opinions, good and bad. It's how you present them that make the difference (as I've learned over the years). I don't really care for post-ToT Dream Theater much, but I'm still a fan, and still check out what they do. I skipped the last two tours, but saw them on the ADToE opening night (I think) at the Warfield in San Fran. I'll probably see them again if they come around next year on the I&W anniversary tour (again, IF it ends up coming stateside).

So I'm still a fan, but no, I don't "LOVE" Dream Theater. I respect them, and enjoy their work and seeing what they do. But I also like to think that I'm pretty intelligent (pipe down, bosk1 - lol) and open-minded, and like a place where I can discuss my opinions on the band, which may differ from the majority of people that "LOVE" them. bosk1 provides that place, and I'm pretty thankful for it.

[red barchetta]

Ferrari's tifosis are legions in Italy.  Take a look at Ferrari's forum (I'm active on it).  As much as they love Ferrari, they are outspoken about what they don't like and what is being said here is little boy's talk compare to it.

Rush is my alltime fav band.  I am on their forum and said openly what songs I never liked and what songs they should have never released (lol, really, who am I) but it's my opinion and I was allow to say it.  And so on,

So here, what's being said is done very softly.  People are entitled to express their opinions about what they don't really like and we are fans of DT or we would not bother to me here.  It's just that it bothers some people when DT is critiqued but I think it's more for self-righteous condemnation and sometimes plain old misery...

[ChuckSteak]

Only negativity? What forum have you been reading? If you ignore all the positive and focus only on the negative, then perhaps yes, there is only negativity, but from what I see 90% of the people here are positive towards DT and The Astonishing, Mangini, etc.

First you need to define what is love and what is being a fan. Everyone has a different concept.

If your concept of being a fan means that you have to like everything the band does and everything associated with the band, defend the band vehemently against any critics, never criticize the band, being angry when somebody does it, then I would disagree. I think that is fanaticism.

To answer your question, I can only say that I don't like DT nowadays as much as I liked them years ago.

This is not love - this not even being a fan. This is being a person who desperately wants something to complain about.

You guys are fans?? This negativity really gets me down.

Aren't you complaining right now about the negativity? I would like to understand why other people's opinion about DT are so important for you and have such a negative effect on you. Isn't it more important if YOU enjoy it? If everyone agreed on everything, wouldn't it be boring? Honestly, I see such an attitude as "I like this, this is good, so everybody HAS TO like it, just like me!!".

[red barchetta]

I think the reason I have been so critical of The Astonishing is precisely because I love the band so much


You can be a fan and be critical at the same time.   Yes, the people on this board are, for the most part, not just your average fan, but I would say that we all still Love DT

Exactly!!!!!!!

[red barchetta]

" . . . . 4) MP is a bad person who must be brought up in every conversation, no matter the context, and bashed.  . . . . "

I am the opposite.  I will pretty much defend MP whenever possible and wish and long for the day when all is right with the world and he is behind the throne again  :-)


" . . . . . 13) Why does DT overdub live releases? They are the only band in the world that does this. FRAUDS. . . . . "

HA!  It's pretty much the opposite.  I loved Once In a LIVEtime when it came out because it had NO OVERDUBS at all.  I loved when the mic cut out for an instant during VOICES.  Yes, I have noticed some fixes in the last few, some background vocal samples, etc, but DT does this far less than other live albums.

I remember when I heard "Eternal Live" by Slaughter. I don't think one single not was actually live before an audience.

MP has been bashed here like crazy.  A total lack of respect imho.

[red barchetta]

Nope. Pretty indifferent to their continued existence, in fact. Like Rumbo I love their old stuff, but those days are long gone. Their music is alright, but their live show holds very little interest for me.

Everytime I saw them, they were great and putting out a show worth the price of it.  Did not go to the last tour but many liked it as usual.

[red barchetta]

TAC said:  " . . . .the most underrated and unused elements of the band has been basically ignored for a while now. And that is having piano driven songs and using all of James' range. . . . "


You have to remember, James isn't James of 1994 anymore.      I have such respect for the way James has been able to keep it up all this time.

I am only 42 and am currently recording "It's Not Love"  by Dokken.   Five years ago I could pull it off on any night.   Now, I have to give it a try every few days and see if I can get a keeper.

You can go to my mediocre songs on the link below and hear me warble some Dokken.   I have not posted my attempts at "Caught In a Web," "Under a Glass Moon," or "Pull Me Under" because I might break soundcloud if I do!!!!  Is it possible for an entire website to laugh at me?   :-)

James has the toughest job in the band and that's why I really think that for some tunes, they should lowered some songs from one key.

[red barchetta]

TAC said:  " . . . .the most underrated and unused elements of the band has been basically ignored for a while now. And that is having piano driven songs and using all of James' range. . . . "


You have to remember, James isn't James of 1994 anymore.      I have such respect for the way James has been able to keep it up all this time.

I am only 42 and am currently recording "It's Not Love"  by Dokken.   Five years ago I could pull it off on any night.   Now, I have to give it a try every few days and see if I can get a keeper.

You can go to my mediocre songs on the link below and hear me warble some Dokken.   I have not posted my attempts at "Caught In a Web," "Under a Glass Moon," or "Pull Me Under" because I might break soundcloud if I do!!!!  Is it possible for an entire website to laugh at me?   :-)

Wow, thank you.  Maybe I should put on my YouTube channel.  I've got songs too.  I sing, play drums, guitar and bass. So you can go and critic me as much as you want.

[Serah Farron]

Of course! Dream Theater is awesome and has been one of the few bands that is still under my radar for so long.  I haven't been around for so long so I don't see the negativity, but Dream Theater's albums (all of them) are amazing.

Each album is really unique and different from each other and that is one of the reason's I can enjoy all of them to the fullest. I listen to Black Clouds and Silver Linings because it sets me on a heart felt and heavy mood and the atmosphere I feel is great. Once I'm done, I can tune into A Dramatic Turn of Events for its really proggy and fun mood. I can switch to each different albums without getting bored.

Each album is unique and different and fun in each different way and that mindset to me alone gives me a reason to enjoy and love each album and not compare it to others. If I started comparing this album to this album, I will end up being disappointed.

[Tony From Long Island]

TAC said:  " . . . .the most underrated and unused elements of the band has been basically ignored for a while now. And that is having piano driven songs and using all of James' range. . . . "


You have to remember, James isn't James of 1994 anymore.      I have such respect for the way James has been able to keep it up all this time.

I am only 42 and am currently recording "It's Not Love"  by Dokken.   Five years ago I could pull it off on any night.   Now, I have to give it a try every few days and see if I can get a keeper.

You can go to my mediocre songs on the link below and hear me warble some Dokken.   I have not posted my attempts at "Caught In a Web," "Under a Glass Moon," or "Pull Me Under" because I might break soundcloud if I do!!!!  Is it possible for an entire website to laugh at me?   :-)

Wow, thank you.  Maybe I should put on my YouTube channel.  I've got songs too.  I sing, play drums, guitar and bass. So you can go and critic me as much as you want.

On my soundcloud page, I play all of the instruments (except Drums which are done on my KRONOS).  But on the DT songs (which I have not posted), I only sing, except for bass on Caught in a Web - and even on that, I can't play the solo section.  Just not good enough . . . oh well.   

The tracks I sing to were recorded by friends who do quite a good job.  Sadly, My guitar skills are more CC DeVille, than John Petrucci . . . actually, that's an insult to CC