Author Topic: The post-fact political world  (Read 2634 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #35 on: December 07, 2016, 02:50:08 PM »
A lot of homeless people live in cities because they move there, not because they grew up there.  Cities have a lot more support for homeless people than rural areas.

I live in St. Louis, and a lot of rural and outlying areas will simply bus their homeless people here because they don't have the resources to deal with them, or the shelters.

Then they complain on the comments section of every news article about how bad the city is, and that they get harassed by homeless people every time they visit, that they're never going back because they're scared about violence, etc.

But that's a problem of execution.   The answer isn't to bus them to the city just to have a better atmosphere to beg.  I don't mind helping those that CAN'T, that really need the help (your Medicaid comment; without knowing any of the facts, I don't support a system that would have let you die.  That doesn't mean that anything goes.)

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #36 on: December 08, 2016, 09:15:19 AM »
I live in St. Louis

hey...wait....so do I. Not to de-rail anything here but what area? We're down south off of 55, Imperial.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2016, 01:43:18 PM »
Saw this on DTF's own chknptpie Facebook feed and thought it was pretty accurate. Thoughts?



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Offline pogoowner

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2016, 01:55:20 PM »
I don't agree 100% with the placements, but I'd say it's accurate for the most part.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2016, 01:57:51 PM »
I don't agree 100% with the placements, but I'd say it's accurate for the most part.

the only thing I'd change is CNN definitely belongs right there alongside MSNBC
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Offline Harmony

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #40 on: December 13, 2016, 02:51:30 PM »
Ugh, I'm seeing that chart posted everywhere without the complete story.  From the OP, Vanessa Otero:

In view of the recent discussion and awareness about how detrimental "fake news" can be, I'd like to re-share a chart I created before the election. The categorization of news as simply "real" or "fake" is too simplistic; there are different ways in which news is good or bad.

***Original post***
We are living in a time where we have more information available to each of us than ever before in history. However, we are not all proficient at distinguishing between good information and bad information. This is true for liberal, moderate, and conservative people. I submit that these two circumstances are highly related to why our country is so politically polarized at the moment.

Why is it that I can have such different views on the same subject or topic as someone else who lives in the same country? Take the polarizing example of people's opinions on Hillary. Why do I think she is qualified and inspiring but others think she is literally evil incarnate? I don't know her personally. And neither do you. We must both admit that our opinions of her are informed by the news sources we read and believe. And news sources vary widely in what they report.

Which news sources should we believe, when there are so many to choose from, and each one is telling you not to believe another one? I put together this chart of which news sources I think you should use and which ones you should not. If you value my opinion as someone who both is reasonable and well-informed, you may find it helpful. If you don't really care what I think, it will be useless to you. These are my subjective opinions based on having read many news stories from each of the listed sites. The only credibility or authority I can claim in this regard is that I read and write analytically for a living.

Before you look at the chart, I'd like to address the fact that many people object to media sources on the basis that they are "mainstream." They say "I don't believe the mainstream media! They are owned by big corporations and do things for money!" But where did they get that idea? From another media source. Remember that each media source has their own incentives (like monetary ones) to get people to listen to them and not to someone else. You have to evaluate media based on something other than the fact that one source told you not to listen to another source.

Remember that journalism is a professional and academic field with a set of agreed-upon standards. People get degrees in it and people who are really good at it get jobs in it at good organizations. Peer review helps ensure mainstream sources adhere to standards; if a story doesn't meet those standards, other news outlets report on that. Not believing the mainstream media just because it is mainstream is like not believing a mainstream doctor or a mainstream lawyer. Sure, you should question and rate the quality of what the newspaper, doctor, or lawyer says, but you shouldn't dismiss them out of hand because the paper is big, the doctor works at a hospital, or the lawyer works at a firm.

The chart is pretty self-explanatory. Here are some caveats and reasons for my rankings:

-I am operating out of the assumption that the less blatantly partisan the source is, the more accurate it is.
-I understand that individual reporters, even at the most reputable news sources, have their own personal biases and opinions. The rankings are an overall ranking of each site.
-The "great news sources" are not necessarily ranked in order in comparison to each other one in the same circle. There is just not enough room. Their quality differs very slightly compared to others not in the category at all.
-News sources not on there are omitted solely because of space considerations. There are, after all, so very many sources. I'd be happy to provide my opinion on placement for a particular source if you ask.
-"Sensational" means the article have titles like "So and so DESTROYS so and so with THIS response!"
-"Clickbait" means the articles have titles like "She walked into a meeting. What happened next will shock you!"
-"Conspiracy theories" means shit that is just made up. Like National Enquirer type stories.
-Satire is not included. Those would be completely outside the chart.
-No distinction is made between original news sources and "aggregators" here--that is another important discussion to be had, though.
-I'm sure this will offend some people that typically agree with me politically. Sorry.

Offline Stadler

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #41 on: December 13, 2016, 03:08:29 PM »
Unfortunately though, the chart doesn't reflect ACTUAL DATA.  This has been studied to death, and both CNN and MSNBC are almost universally found to be MORE biased - albeit in the opposite direction - than Fox News, and MSNBC is almost always cited as the most biased of the major (based on viewers/readers) news sources.   So to have CNN and MSNBC right in the middle, and Fox barely touching the "credible" line is not at all accurate.   

I'm pressed for time here (leaving work soon to get dog food) but I will be happy to provide sources tomorrow, upon request.  But a simple Google can help you out and even Wikipedia is a decent source to start looking at this. 

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #42 on: December 13, 2016, 08:20:09 PM »
NPR, NYT, and the WT are under minimal partisan bias?  :lol

Offline jsbru

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #43 on: December 13, 2016, 09:08:01 PM »
I don't really think I like that chart much at all.  Partisan bias doesn't necessarily mean something is "garbage" like that chart has at its ends.  Lots of political philosophy is interesting on both ends of the spectrum.  It's highly "complex," and it's partisanship in its purest form, but the best political philosophers are not garbage by any means.

Marx's critiques of capitalism are extremely thoughtful and ingenious (although his solution isn't much of a solution).  Adam Smith is smart as hell, and even though he's not as libertarian as his supporters actually claim he is, his philosophy creates much of the backbone of modern-day laissez faire conservative economics, which are about as extreme right-wing as you can get.

Partisanship is either smart or stupid depending on what your end goal is, not how far out on the wings it is.  This chart seems to imply that centrism is automatically right because it's in the center, which is nothing more than tautological question begging.  There's nothing I hate more than people who declare they're better than everyone else because the truth is always "in the center."  But that approach is just as ideological as partisanship.  If your goal is social equality while maintaining national economic prosperity, European-style social democracy is probably the smartest thing out there.  If your goal is to the victor go the spoils, and everyone else can eat my shorts, than the US-style center-right government is right for you.

Also, "Natural News" is not left wing.  Anti-GMO propaganda has roots in conspiracy theory, not politics.  And plenty of libertarians like Alex Jones buy into that stuff, too!  I shouldn't have to be forced to defend that.  :D
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Offline 7th

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #44 on: December 13, 2016, 10:13:45 PM »
I don't really think I like that chart much at all.  Partisan bias doesn't necessarily mean something is "garbage" like that chart has at its ends.  Lots of political philosophy is interesting on both ends of the spectrum.  It's highly "complex," and it's partisanship in its purest form, but the best political philosophers are not garbage by any means.

Marx's critiques of capitalism are extremely thoughtful and ingenious (although his solution isn't much of a solution).  Adam Smith is smart as hell, and even though he's not as libertarian as his supporters actually claim he is, his philosophy creates much of the backbone of modern-day laissez faire conservative economics, which are about as extreme right-wing as you can get.

Partisanship is either smart or stupid depending on what your end goal is, not how far out on the wings it is.  This chart seems to imply that centrism is automatically right because it's in the center, which is nothing more than tautological question begging.  There's nothing I hate more than people who declare they're better than everyone else because the truth is always "in the center."  But that approach is just as ideological as partisanship.  If your goal is social equality while maintaining national economic prosperity, European-style social democracy is probably the smartest thing out there.  If your goal is to the victor go the spoils, and everyone else can eat my shorts, than the US-style center-right government is right for you.

Also, "Natural News" is not left wing.  Anti-GMO propaganda has roots in conspiracy theory, not politics.  And plenty of libertarians like Alex Jones buy into that stuff, too!  I shouldn't have to be forced to defend that.  :D

I have to agree with this other than I do take exception to the European-style social democracy thing.  Europe is largely an economic mess these days, a social wasteland and terrorist incubator with just as much racial and class resentments as anywhere else.  I still think the USA has the most effective model for freedom and prosperity, and the reason why we are having more trouble now socially is due to the influence of European-style socialism that has crept in via academics and elitists. 
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Offline jsbru

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2016, 11:09:49 PM »
I have to agree with this other than I do take exception to the European-style social democracy thing.  Europe is largely an economic mess these days, a social wasteland and terrorist incubator with just as much racial and class resentments as anywhere else.

You obviously haven't been to Europe lately, have you?  The standard of living there is fantastic.  A lot of the countries (the ones in Northern, Central, and Western Europe that have implemented social democracy, at least) have better GDPs per capita than we do, and have nearly eliminated poverty--at least the kind you see here in the US.

In case you've missed it, the entire world has been an economic mess lately, mostly because of unregulated capitalism's meltdown just 8 years ago.  A lot of European countries and banks were invested in that mess.  Our screw ups affected the entire world.

The other financial problem in Europe wasn't social democracy...it was powerful countries in the EU taking advantage of weaker ones.

Quote
I still think the USA has the most effective model for freedom and prosperity, and the reason why we are having more trouble now socially is due to the influence of European-style socialism that has crept in via academics and elitists.

They US has drifted farther and farther right every decade since the 1970s.  Our social safety net has gotten smaller and smaller.  As a result, our life expectancy is actually starting to go down.  Poverty rates are higher here than any other developed nation in the world.

The US is by far the most right-wing government of all first-world democracies.  The poverty you see here is a direct result of that.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2016, 11:16:13 PM by jsbru »
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Offline 7th

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2016, 11:48:03 PM »
I have to agree with this other than I do take exception to the European-style social democracy thing.  Europe is largely an economic mess these days, a social wasteland and terrorist incubator with just as much racial and class resentments as anywhere else.

You obviously haven't been to Europe lately, have you?  The standard of living there is fantastic.  A lot of the countries (the ones in Northern, Central, and Western Europe that have implemented social democracy, at least) have better GDPs per capita than we do, and have nearly eliminated poverty--at least the kind you see here in the US.

In case you've missed it, the entire world has been an economic mess lately, mostly because of unregulated capitalism's meltdown just 8 years ago.  A lot of European countries and banks were invested in that mess.  Our screw ups affected the entire world.

The other financial problem in Europe wasn't social democracy...it was powerful countries in the EU taking advantage of weaker ones.

Quote
I still think the USA has the most effective model for freedom and prosperity, and the reason why we are having more trouble now socially is due to the influence of European-style socialism that has crept in via academics and elitists.

They US has drifted farther and farther right every decade since the 1970s.  Our social safety net has gotten smaller and smaller.  As a result, our life expectancy is actually starting to go down.  Poverty rates are higher here than any other developed nation in the world.

The US is by far the most right-wing government of all first-world democracies.  The poverty you see here is a direct result of that.

I haven't been to the EU lately but the last time I was there (Amsterdam & Helsinki) the heroin addicts hanging about the stations and the road signs declaring "Beware deadly fake drugs sold to tourists" I didn't take to be an indicator of social advancement.  Even in the post-Katrina tent cities of New Orleans you have to look hard to see that kind of shit.  The EU is bordering on a third-world mess - granted the USA is not far behind thanks to Obamanomics.

BUT, I will grant some perspective here.  I was just in Boulder CO.  Many Americans would consider Boulder a sanctuary of progressive values and intellectualism.  I couldn't get out of there fast enough.  The people stoned in the streets unbathed and suffering weren't even the real problem for me.  It was the elitist, smug-ass, millennial trust funders tripping over the people in the streets like they weren't even there.  The whole vibe made me sick.  Yeah, y'all keep striving for that progressive existence, I'll be fine right here in my little corner of the "repressed south" where locking your doors is considered odd.     
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Offline Adami

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2016, 11:53:13 PM »
http://www.businessinsider.com/mercer-2016-quality-of-living-worldwide-city-rankings-2016-5/#1-vienna-austria--this-city-tops-the-rankings-for-the-seventh-consecutive-time-east-of-the-danube-river-vienna-is-the-seventh-largest-city-by-population-within-city-limits-in-the-european-union-and-is-rich-in-culture-27

The only "American" cities on this list are Canadian. Lots of Europe on there.

Europe, fortunately, is not a third-world mess with streets filled with drug addicts. I'm sorry your experiences of Amsterdam and Helsinki were like that, mine were not in the slightest.
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Offline 7th

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #48 on: December 14, 2016, 12:15:14 AM »
http://www.businessinsider.com/mercer-2016-quality-of-living-worldwide-city-rankings-2016-5/#1-vienna-austria--this-city-tops-the-rankings-for-the-seventh-consecutive-time-east-of-the-danube-river-vienna-is-the-seventh-largest-city-by-population-within-city-limits-in-the-european-union-and-is-rich-in-culture-27

The only "American" cities on this list are Canadian. Lots of Europe on there.

Europe, fortunately, is not a third-world mess with streets filled with drug addicts. I'm sorry your experiences of Amsterdam and Helsinki were like that, mine were not in the slightest.

I'll give you Auckland and anywhere in Austria, but many of the cities on that list are about on par with the typical USA burg.  Though, to your point, many USA cities especially in the midwest have been reduced to third world status.  As I have pointed out, that is largely due to progressive politics.  I am not bashing the EU btw.  Very wonderful people there, but the liberalism and progressivism is over the top and they are suffering for it.  For example, France and Brussels are under practical martial law thanks to Islamic terror, which was welcomed in by progressive dolts.  I know you lot don't get it, but your inability to reason doesn't mean what I am saying is false.  I can show the graves of those who represent the foolishness of EU progressivism.     
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Online eric42434224

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #49 on: December 14, 2016, 05:11:39 AM »
LOL.  I think 7th might have a skewed vision of what third-world means....and paired with a pattern to exaggerate, you get some interesting images.

A homesless person on a park bench a third world country does not make. 
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #50 on: December 14, 2016, 08:36:47 AM »
They US has drifted farther and farther right every decade since the 1970s.  Our social safety net has gotten smaller and smaller.  As a result, our life expectancy is actually starting to go down.  Poverty rates are higher here than any other developed nation in the world.

The US is by far the most right-wing government of all first-world democracies.  The poverty you see here is a direct result of that.

This is just not accurate.   Not at all.  We have more people on some sort of assistance than ever before, and the number is now over 150 million, or a HALF of the country.   We just implemented the most liberal health care changes this country has ever seen.   The leadership in this country has been Liberal for 16 of the last 24 years (and had a House majority for four of Bush's years) and controlled all three "legs" of the triad (House, Senate, White House) for six of those years.   Socially, we've had incredible progress on things like gay marriage, legalization of marijuana, and the addition of no less than four letters and at least one symbol to the traditional "LGBT" designation.   

http://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillmatthews/2014/07/02/weve-crossed-the-tipping-point-most-americans-now-receive-government-benefits/

That you SAY it doesn't make it so.   

We're also doing that foolhardy trick of trying to compare the economy and social "status" (for lack of a better word) of the United States with that of countries that are a fraction of the size, and don't have nearly the global burden that the United States has (with the possible exceptions of Germany and the UK).  We have three STATES that would be in the top seven COUNTRIES of Europe based on GDP.

Offline jsbru

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #51 on: December 14, 2016, 09:45:40 AM »
I'll give you Auckland and anywhere in Austria, but many of the cities on that list are about on par with the typical USA burg.  Though, to your point, many USA cities especially in the midwest have been reduced to third world status.  As I have pointed out, that is largely due to progressive politics.  I am not bashing the EU btw.  Very wonderful people there, but the liberalism and progressivism is over the top and they are suffering for it.  For example, France and Brussels are under practical martial law thanks to Islamic terror, which was welcomed in by progressive dolts.  I know you lot don't get it, but your inability to reason doesn't mean what I am saying is false.  I can show the graves of those who represent the foolishness of EU progressivism.   

I'm glad this was posted in the post-fact political thread, because we really need to keep this thread on-topic.  ;)
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #52 on: December 14, 2016, 09:46:15 AM »
They US has drifted farther and farther right every decade since the 1970s.  Our social safety net has gotten smaller and smaller.  As a result, our life expectancy is actually starting to go down.  Poverty rates are higher here than any other developed nation in the world.

The US is by far the most right-wing government of all first-world democracies.  The poverty you see here is a direct result of that.

This is just not accurate.   Not at all.  We have more people on some sort of assistance than ever before, and the number is now over 150 million, or a HALF of the country.

You're ignoring the fact that a large portion of those people are baby boomers that are receiving social security. The way that you're wording it makes it sound like all of those people are on welfare.
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Offline jsbru

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #53 on: December 14, 2016, 09:50:43 AM »
The number of people receiving government benefits of some sort continues to rise because people are living longer but having less kids.  Thus, a greater percentage are on Social Security.  That explains a large chunk of the rise of people receiving government benefits.  Another large chunk are people who actually have jobs, but don't get paid enough, so they still qualify for food stamps.  That's a result of free trade coupled with no raise in the minimum wage (right-wing economics).

That's not because we've done anything to expand the "welfare state."  Welfare was slashed under Clinton.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #54 on: December 14, 2016, 12:36:02 PM »
The number of people receiving government benefits of some sort continues to rise because people are living longer but having less kids.  Thus, a greater percentage are on Social Security.  That explains a large chunk of the rise of people receiving government benefits.  Another large chunk are people who actually have jobs, but don't get paid enough, so they still qualify for food stamps.  That's a result of free trade coupled with no raise in the minimum wage (right-wing economics).

That's not because we've done anything to expand the "welfare state."  Welfare was slashed under Clinton.

Wow, I'll give you credit for consistency.  Consistently WRONG.   To you and Powerslave, I'll say again: that you SAY it doesn't make it so.    The ballooning of the number to 150 million is NOT because of "demographics".   It includes all the people - and there are tens of millions of them - receiving subsidies for the ACA.  It includes the rising tide of welfare recipients (Clinton may have reduced the number temporarily, but the progressive policies of Obama have led to an increase in recipients in recent years).   http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/08/23/swelling-welfare-rolls-are-a-sure-sign-that-recovery-never-happened.html

Regardless of the excuses you seem to want to make, the numbers are there.   These are record highs for the welfare and/or Medicaid programs.   

As for the cause, no.  The "minimum wage" itself is part of the problem, and part of the reason that "free trade" has seemed to hit us so hard.  ("Free trade" in quotes, because it's not "free trade" that has hurt us.   If it wasn't for "free trade" our GDP would be far less than it is, and that upside more than offsets the downside.  The problem is, the downside is fixable without radically re-vamping "free trade", but because of denial and false accusations, it hasn't been done).  What we should be doing is not artificially trying to game the system so it "looks good" from the outside, but helping people so that we can sustainably keep these people productive even in the face of certain specific tasks being automated or moved overseas.

Increasing the minimum wage is simply replacing one government assistance program with another, albeit privately funded.   It's not "economics" at all.  It's "subsidy".     

Offline jsbru

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #55 on: December 14, 2016, 12:58:45 PM »
So Obamacare subsidies are now "welfare"?

Is every tax credit "welfare"?  If so, than the entire country is on welfare, including almost all medium to large corporations.

Your article is from 4 years ago, BTW.

Also, you are wrong about the aging population:
https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v66n4/v66n4p37.html
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #56 on: December 14, 2016, 02:07:42 PM »

 To you and Powerslave, I'll say again: that you SAY it doesn't make it so.
   

I don't know where this came from, but I don't really appreciate it. I've always been civil with you. If you have a problem with someone else, don't include me in it.
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Offline 7th

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #57 on: December 14, 2016, 03:14:11 PM »
LOL.  I think 7th might have a skewed vision of what third-world means....and paired with a pattern to exaggerate, you get some interesting images.

A homesless person on a park bench a third world country does not make.

Well, nobody uses the term correctly anymore, but contextually I am referring to the decimation of the middle class leaving only a super wealthy minority and the super poor majority, but the minority rules.  In classic third-world sense of developing nations outside of NATO this is almost always the case.  And I don't think it is fair to call it a pattern of exaggeration when I am pointing out people's suffering in so-called developed and evolved economies.  It IS real.  There ARE loads of people addicted to drugs and heading for early death.  There are people living in horrific poverty right under the noses of the elite who pretend they are socially aware.  It's not an exaggeration and it is not to be swept under the carpet if we really want to end human suffering.   
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Offline Adami

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2016, 03:35:23 PM »
Every country has drug addicts. They always have and always will because those are choices people make.

Every country has some poverty. Always have, always will.

So unless every country is a 3rd world country, then that's not a proper guideline.
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Offline pogoowner

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #59 on: December 14, 2016, 07:20:16 PM »
So Infowars created their own chart in response. :lol


Offline Prog Snob

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #60 on: December 14, 2016, 08:03:29 PM »
At least it's an improvement.

Offline jsbru

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #61 on: December 14, 2016, 08:04:52 PM »
LOL.  I like how Russia Today is an example of "state run" media that promotes "freedom."

Honestly, when did the right-wing turn into commies?
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Offline jsbru

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #62 on: December 14, 2016, 08:12:55 PM »
Does any of this seriously worry people about our country's future?  It's okay to be skeptical about every source of information, but I feel like 90% of the people that say "you can't trust the mainstream/corporate/state-run/whatever conspiratorial adjective du jour you want to add in there" media are instead trusting highly suspect partisan and/or conspiratorial sites of their own, including sites run by countries that are in essence still enemies of America.

I think we're a lot closer to complete anarchy than we think.

"It's all lies, and I know that because Info Wars told me so."

Yeah, that logic holds up real well...
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

― Hunter S. Thompson

Offline pogoowner

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #63 on: December 14, 2016, 08:16:37 PM »
At least it's an improvement.
The only thing I really like about it is that they actually include The Intercept, which does excellent work.

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #64 on: December 14, 2016, 08:19:09 PM »
Does any of this seriously worry people about our country's future?  It's okay to be skeptical about every source of information, but I feel like 90% of the people that say "you can't trust the mainstream/corporate/state-run/whatever conspiratorial adjective du jour you want to add in there" media are instead trusting highly suspect partisan and/or conspiratorial sites of their own, including sites run by countries that are in essence still enemies of America.

I think we're a lot closer to complete anarchy than we think.

"It's all lies, and I know that because Info Wars told me so."

Yeah, that logic holds up real well...

I think that kind of logic is across the board. Fox News watchers, MSNBC watchers, Huffington Post, CNN, and others. No supporter of any of those has a right to act like their source is superior.

Offline jsbru

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #65 on: December 14, 2016, 08:27:43 PM »
I agree...that's why I included "corporate," which is the pejorative the left uses to describe the "establishment" media.

As long as media remains fragmented and a consumer product, though, people are going to gravitate toward whatever news re-confirms and re-enforces their existing biases.  Thus, we're going to turn into a nation that stridently believes in nothing but our own BS.  We're already there, actually.

The future is nihilism coupled with a dose of spoiled brattery.
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

― Hunter S. Thompson

Offline Adami

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #66 on: December 14, 2016, 08:28:46 PM »
I've deduced that the best way to find non-super bias news is to do the following...

Ask right wingers what news sites are left wing propaganda.

Ask left wingers what news sites are right wing propaganda.

When there's an intercept, that might be a good news source.
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #67 on: December 14, 2016, 08:30:57 PM »
I agree...that's why I included "corporate," which is the pejorative the left uses to describe the "establishment" media.

As long as media remains fragmented and a consumer product, though, people are going to gravitate toward whatever news re-confirms and re-enforces their existing biases.  Thus, we're going to turn into a nation that stridently believes in nothing but our own BS.  We're already there, actually.

The future is nihilism coupled with a dose of spoiled brattery.

I couldn't agree more.


I've deduced that the best way to find non-super bias news is to do the following...

Ask right wingers what news sites are left wing propaganda.

Ask left wingers what news sites are right wing propaganda.

When there's an intercept, that might be a good news source.

:lol  You might be on to something.

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #68 on: December 14, 2016, 08:54:58 PM »
I've deduced that the best way to find non-super bias news is to do the following...

Ask right wingers what news sites are left wing propaganda.

Ask left wingers what news sites are right wing propaganda.

When there's an intercept, that might be a good news source.

best piece of advice ever  :lol

Offline jsbru

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Re: The post-fact political world
« Reply #69 on: December 14, 2016, 09:10:15 PM »
Sometimes, the establishment is right, though.  Like DJT actually is a pretty big security threat, and is completely unfit to lead this nation.

It's a somber, dark joke for now...now that he's not actually in charge.  But in little over a month, it will just be somber and dark.

Case and point:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2016/12/14/michael_flynn_mishandled_classified_material_in_2010.html

Mike "Lock Her Up" Flynn shared confidential info with foreign military advisers in Afghanistan.

Not only is Trump not doing his intel briefing homework, his qualifications for highest office in the land seem to be 1) talked massive smack about Hillary and Obama, 2) ties to Russia, and 3) conspiracy theory spreading.

Flynn checks all those boxes, plus the security breach.
“The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side.”

― Hunter S. Thompson