New Mike Mangini Interview

[erwinrafael]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEMTzBTHiSo

Does not sound like a robot to me.

Actually, I would dare anybody to say with a straight face that his performance of The Shattered Fortress in BTFW is robotic also.

[BlobVanDam]

That drumming reminded me of a '90s drum machine track, reminded me of Surfing With The Alien. That snare fill at 1:12 in particular was unnaturally even sounding to me. The thing that makes a snare fill interesting as opposed to sounding like a MIDI machine gun is dynamics, which it was lacking.

[jakepriest]

Actually, I would dare anybody to say with a straight face that his performance of The Shattered Fortress in BTFW is robotic also.

His performance on TSF completely ruined the mellow part of the song. Like what the hell was he trying to accomplish there? Unnecessary fills, and when he does the crescendo buildup to the TROAE prechorus part his volume doesn't go up at all, because he's already going full power during the mellow section.

Overall I would say Mangini does really well in the metal / heavy parts, but his playing on softer songs live always leaves me craving something else.

[erwinrafael]

Well, there's really just no convincing some of  you. 

[jakepriest]

Well, there's really just no convincing some of  you. 

Well, I think this just comes down to a matter of taste. So it might be like trying to convince a person who loves jazz and classical music to listen to death metal and like it.
I don't think we are implying that Mangini is a bad drummer. For example I don't like Neil Peart at all, he is an amazing drummer no doubt, but he just looks so incredibly bloody stiff when he is playing that I can't stand to watch him play.

What sounds robotic and out of place for me might be exactly what you look for in drumming.

[mikemangioy]

While it's true that the mellow part in TSF should be played respecting the mood, when I saw what Mangini did on BTFW, I suddenly had this huge smile on my face. That's what he does best, he has fun with the instrument and that shows. You can see that in his Youtube videos too.

[Kotowboy]

I prefer Mangini as a person but I preferred Portnoy's playing.

[MrBoom_shack-a-lack]

The whole MM vs MP will never go away, will it? 

[Bertielee]

The whole MM vs MP will never go away, will it? 

Never! And that's really unfortunate.

B.Lee

[rumborak]

The whole MM vs MP will never go away, will it? 

Why would it? The KM/DS/JR discussions haven't gone away, nor have the JM 1.0 vs 1.1 vs 2.0 discussions.

[BlobVanDam]

The whole MM vs MP will never go away, will it? 

Why would it? The KM/DS/JR discussions haven't gone away, nor have the JM 1.0 vs 1.1 vs 2.0 discussions.

And let's not forget the heated discussions about who's better out of JLB and CD.

Let's just say they get out of haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Well, there's really just no convincing some of  you. 

What sounds robotic and out of place for me might be exactly what you look for in drumming.

That's a not-very-subtle way of saying others that what you look for in drumming is kinda more in line than what he looks for. 

Either way, I kinda disagree with what you said earlier. Portnoy, although extremely musical in most of his endeavours, also has been criticized for overplaying parts and being loud where he really didn't 'have' to be (whatever that means). It the musician of that calibre is loud in a specific part, is because he/she considered that was the way to go. Of course we're entitled to like it or hate it, but who are we to tell them 'hey Mangini, you should play this part quietly because it fits best!'?

[jakepriest]

Well, there's really just no convincing some of  you. 

What sounds robotic and out of place for me might be exactly what you look for in drumming.

That's a not-very-subtle way of saying others that what you look for in drumming is kinda more in line than what he looks for. 

No, it's not. And if you see it that way.  My intention was never to put anyone down. Heck, some people love programmed drums.

It the musician of that calibre is loud in a specific part, is because he/she considered that was the way to go. Of course we're entitled to like it or hate it, but who are we to tell them 'hey Mangini, you should play this part quietly because it fits best!'?

I may have worded it a bit too strongly (as I tend to do on this forum), but I only expressed my dislike for what he did in TSF and was pondering why he would do that in that specific part. All I was trying to get across is that I don't like Mangini's playing over soft parts / songs.

[rumborak]

I would say it's an overall valid statement that MM struggles with quiet parts, I think both a result of his technique and the drum sound he gets on albums. Act of Faythe is my prime example for this, where the drums seemingly just can't be quiet, no matter how he tries. Like, it's pretty obvious that there was supposed to be a crescendo around the 3:15 mark, but the drums already essentially had maxed out during the quiet part.

[mikeyd23]

I would say it's an overall valid statement that MM struggles with quiet parts, I think both a result of his technique and the drum sound he gets on albums. Act of Faythe is my prime example for this, where the drums seemingly just can't be quiet, no matter how he tries. Like, it's pretty obvious that there was supposed to be a crescendo around the 3:15 mark, but the drums already essentially had maxed out during the quiet part.

I remember reading an interview or something after ADTOE came out and MM said the most challenging song on that record for him to play was This is the Life because it was a softer more ballad type tune.

[erwinrafael]

MM's comment was more about the need for more disciplined and simpler drumming, not about dynamics. It's the same comment by Myung, where he also had to be restrained because of the multiple layers of tracks.

[mikeyd23]

I wan't saying it as a knock to MM. I just remembered him saying that and was surprised, since it's one of the "simpler" songs on that record.

[Kotowboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUavFsfbFv8

The drumming on this is what I aim for as far as dynamics.

[cramx3]

I would say it's an overall valid statement that MM struggles with quiet parts, I think both a result of his technique and the drum sound he gets on albums. Act of Faythe is my prime example for this, where the drums seemingly just can't be quiet, no matter how he tries. Like, it's pretty obvious that there was supposed to be a crescendo around the 3:15 mark, but the drums already essentially had maxed out during the quiet part.

I remember reading an interview or something after ADTOE came out and MM said the most challenging song on that record for him to play was This is the Life because it was a softer more ballad type tune.

I actually really really like MM's drumming on the softer songs on JLB's Elements of Persuassion.  I thought he was a bit over the top for those softer songs, but I felt like it worked and made the songs unique.  That was one of the first times I had heard MM and thought "I like this drummer".

[pcs90]

I would say it's an overall valid statement that MM struggles with quiet parts, I think both a result of his technique and the drum sound he gets on albums. Act of Faythe is my prime example for this, where the drums seemingly just can't be quiet, no matter how he tries. Like, it's pretty obvious that there was supposed to be a crescendo around the 3:15 mark, but the drums already essentially had maxed out during the quiet part.

What I find interesting about this is I remember several interviews where he's mentioned being classically-trained...but in those settings you absolutely need to be good at dynamics and playing softly.
I also do remember him saying that in DT his dynamics really have to be extreme, which is partially why he uses multiple bass drums, to really exaggerate dynamics in a song.
I am not sure how much of this is his choice and how much is told to him by the rest of the band. I mean, MP also played too loud in places IMO.

[Stewie]

Mangini just doesn't handle dynamics well. His thing is being able to do single-handed drum rolls, playing ambidextrous, being stupid good with polyrhythms, etc. Beyond that, there's not much depth to his playing. That's probably why so many people think his drumming sounds no different than a drum machine, or programmed drums.

As far as the comment regarding his playing on The Shattered Fortress, I didn't really care for the overplaying he did during the mellow section. It just seemed really out of place, and too loud. Having said that, some of the other fills he added in the upbeat parts of the song were pretty sick.

[jakepriest]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUavFsfbFv8

The drumming on this is what I aim for as far as dynamics.

I don't really like the band much, but man the drum sound and playing is on point. Sounds fucking wonderful.

[Mosh]

Mangini just doesn't handle dynamics well. His thing is being able to do single-handed drum rolls, playing ambidextrous, being stupid good with polyrhythms, etc. Beyond that, there's not much depth to his playing. That's probably why so many people think his drumming sounds no different than a drum machine, or programmed drums.

And this is where his drumming doesn't work for me. I recognize the skill and work that goes into what he does, but I value dynamics over all of those other things.

[rumborak]

I personally wouldn't call the dynamics what I love about drums. For me, there's nothing more delightful than when I hear the actual instrument. Like, the subtle scratch of the stick over the drum skin, the always slightly different sound of the ride bell when hit. When I get the impression I'm sitting next to the drums, that's when it sounds good.

JP's guitar sound is for the most part fantastic, and in the top 5 of my favorite guitar sounds. At the same time I wish he chucked the suspended Floyd Rose 7-string going through a Triple Rectifier Mesa Boogie with Axe-FX chorus and delay occasionally, for a Strat and an Orange amp. I think FII was the only album where he played a Strat.

[Mosh]

I generally don't like an overly processed guitar sound but JP really has his nailed for the most part. It works for what he's doing I guess. I'd like to hear him on a more stripped down set up only if the music called for it and DT haven't really written any music that called for that sort of thing since Octavarium, at least.

[erwinrafael]

The whole MM vs MP will never go away, will it? 

Like Alan White always living in Bill Bruford's shadow for Yes fans.

I generally don't like an overly processed guitar sound but JP really has his nailed for the most part. It works for what he's doing I guess. I'd like to hear him on a more stripped down set up only if the music called for it and DT haven't really written any music that called for that sort of thing since Octavarium, at least.

You must not have heard of The Astonishing then.

[Kotowboy]

Like Alan White always living in Bill Bruford's shadow for Yes fans.

Alan White will always be the best oasis drummer

[erwinrafael]

Damn it!

[Woodworker1]

I wasn't a huge MM fan until I saw BTFW.  I could actually hear what he was playing.  It is hard to hear what he is doing on studio albums (at least for a non-musician like me).

If you haven't seen BTFW you really owe it to yourself to watch it; I gained a whole new appreciation for MM.

[cramx3]

I wasn't a huge MM fan until I saw BTFW.  I could actually hear what he was playing.  It is hard to hear what he is doing on studio albums (at least for a non-musician like me).

If you haven't seen BTFW you really owe it to yourself to watch it; I gained a whole new appreciation for MM.

Definitely a good watch.  I thought MM's playing of TSF was a highlight of that blu-ray. 

[erwinrafael]

BTFW performance is great, except for the guitar solo section of Trial of Tears, where MM's playing was stiff.

[Shooters1221]

I may have worded it a bit too strongly (as I tend to do on this forum), but I only expressed my dislike for what he did in TSF and was pondering why he would do that in that specific part. All I was trying to get across is that I don't like Mangini's playing over soft parts / songs.

Yeah, that's the thing with forums in general, sometimes opinions get mixed with facts and come off in a strong and sometimes misleading way. I understood what the intent of your post was. IMO though, I FUCKING LOVE THAT PART in TSF on BTFW and prefer it over the original. 

[Kotowboy]

BTFW performance is great, except for the guitar solo section of Trial of Tears, where MM's playing was stiff.

It reminds me of that thing I heard on my degree that absolute world class orchestra musicians have been so regimented to read music their whole life and to play other people's music..

...that if you ask them to just improvise - they wouldn't know how to.

Obviously I don't think Mangini doesn't know how to improvise but that section feels like he's doing a pre-thought out "solo" than just going for it and playing for the moment.

[rumborak]

I like BTFW overall, but Trial of Tears doesn't work for me on that. The fusion solo section doesn't groove at all.

[gzarruk]

I like BTFW overall, but Trial of Tears doesn't work for me on that. The fusion solo section doesn't groove at all.

My problem with the solo section isn't the drumming at all, but that Jordan brutally murdered one of Derek's best keyboard solos ever (it gets even worse when you realize Derek hates keytars with all his soul) 

And, for the record, I've always prefered Jordan over Derek and Kevin, but he changes their keyboard solos way too much and just plays fast scale runs and all thar