New Mike Mangini Interview

[TAC]

In a way, I think he's respected MP's original drum parts a bit too much. Hopefully he's preparing to REALLY put his stamp on these songs.

[gzarruk]

I specifically asked him at the meet and greet to what extent did he develop the drum parts, and he said he had a basic idea of the timing; whether a section would be half-time, whether it would be very upbeat and busy, or a laid back groove, etc. He didn't have very specific drum parts in mind - Mangini got to come up with a lot more than what people have been giving him credit for. In the end JP had final say on parts, yes, but he didn't sit down at a computer and program everything and hand it to Mangini and say "here, just play this". It was more along the lines of "that's great, try this instead" and "that was awesome, can you add more this, less that".

Indeed. That's exactly what producers do and JP is the only producer for the band. I don't know how people would think JP wrote the drum parts, I mean, listen to all three albums, even ADTOE (which had demos with drum programming), they all have TONS of Mangini-isms. It's pretty clear he has the freedom to come up with his own parts, but, as with any other member of the band, or any band, the producer gives instruction on how they want a part recorded, executed, etc.

In a way, I think he's respected MP's original drum parts a bit too much. Hopefully he's preparing to REALLY put his stamp on these songs.

As cool as that would be, if he does that, some people would just complain the hell about it, like some actually do when he changes subtle things. It's just not THAT easy for him to do that and expect the "fans" to not complain a lot.

[Kotowboy]

By the way, Mangini shows Lzzy Hale his drum kit and the first thing he shows is that it has an ambidextrous setup. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z4T3HUBtyY

He's "explained" it before - but I still don't get why his left hi-hat pedal is on the right hand side...

[Adami]

By the way, Mangini shows Lzzy Hale his drum kit and the first thing he shows is that it has an ambidextrous setup. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z4T3HUBtyY

He's "explained" it before - but I still don't get why his left hi-hat pedal is on the right hand side...

I assume it's just because it's more complicated and thus gives him more of a challenge.

[Stewie]

I don't know how people would think JP wrote the drum parts, I mean, listen to all three albums, even ADTOE (which had demos with drum programming), they all have TONS of Mangini-isms. It's pretty clear he has the freedom to come up with his own parts, but, as with any other member of the band, or any band, the producer gives instruction on how they want a part recorded, executed, etc.

That's what I've been saying all along. Mangini has contributed a lot more than what people seem to be giving him credit for. As you said, I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that JP is doing everything, or that Mangini hasn't had a say in the matter as far as his drum parts are concerned.

[gzarruk]

By the way, Mangini shows Lzzy Hale his drum kit and the first thing he shows is that it has an ambidextrous setup. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z4T3HUBtyY

He's "explained" it before - but I still don't get why his left hi-hat pedal is on the right hand side...

I assume it's just because it's more complicated and thus gives him more of a challenge.

He uses 4 hi-hats, two open and two closed. His main open hi-hat (on the right side) is controlled by his left foot, just like most drummers would do. His left side open hi-hat is controlled by his right foot, so he can play fully right handed or left handed without a problem. It's very difficult to get done, but, hey, this is Mangini we're talking about 

[erwinrafael]

By the way, Mangini shows Lzzy Hale his drum kit and the first thing he shows is that it has an ambidextrous setup. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z4T3HUBtyY

He's "explained" it before - but I still don't get why his left hi-hat pedal is on the right hand side...

Because he does not cross his hands when drumming.

[Adami]

By the way, Mangini shows Lzzy Hale his drum kit and the first thing he shows is that it has an ambidextrous setup. LOL

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Z4T3HUBtyY

He's "explained" it before - but I still don't get why his left hi-hat pedal is on the right hand side...

Because he does not cross his hands when drumming.

That has nothing to do with where his pedals are. It would explain why his right hi hat pedal was on his left side, but not vice versa.

[erwinrafael]

That has nothing to do with where his pedals are. It would explain why his right hi hat pedal was on his left side, but not vice versa.

It does. Becauase he keeps an open stance, when he plays cymbals and hi-hats on the left side with his left hand, he then uses his right hand to hit the snare. Because his right hand hits the snare, the natural movement is to counter with the left foot playing the bass. Because the left foot is playing the bass, the free foot to control the hi-hats is the right foot. Which is why the pedals for his left hi hat is played using the right foot.

[pcs90]

It's surely a privilege you gain slowly, over time. The same was true of JR when he joined DT. His creative input slowly became more and more welcome with each album, and you can hear it.

I'm not sure how it's the same with JR. His input was pretty obvious immediately. Now there are albums where he had less freedom like TOT but that's just down to the musical style I think. Since Jordan was in LTE before he joined DT, that probably helped a lot as the majority of the band would have all worked together already by that point.
I know that wasn't really your main point, but still

[Adami]

That has nothing to do with where his pedals are. It would explain why his right hi hat pedal was on his left side, but not vice versa.

It does. Becauase he keeps an open stance, when he plays cymbals and hi-hats on the left side with his left hand, he then uses his right hand to hit the snare. Because his right hand hits the snare, the natural movement is to counter with the left foot playing the bass. Because the left foot is playing the bass, the free foot to control the hi-hats is the right foot. Which is why the pedals for his left hi hat is played using the right foot.

That's only natural for someone who is left handed, the right handed person's right foot will always be the dominant one.

He purposefully trains himself to play ambidextrously, despite not naturally being so. Therefore, i'll stick to my original reason that it makes it more of a challenge for him.

[erwinrafael]

When I said natural, I meant that it is hard to play the snare with your right hand if your bass drum is played with the right foot also. So if you are playing the snare with your right hand, then it is more natural to play the bass with your left foot.

His ambidextrous playing is not really mere challenging himself. Its purpose was to realize his idea of how to orchestrate a song: darker sounding cymbals when a song goes to a lower key, brighter sounding cymbals when the song goes up a key. Following is a good example of when he goes left, when he goes right:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E7nGtoYckP4

So he plays right handed normally, but plays left handed when Cupid's Dead goes to a lower key in the stanza. If he does not do this, his other options are to cross arms (which he said is actually physically harder for him) or to load all the cymbal options on the right side of the kit (which is not desirable given the numbet of cymbals he use). So it's not really a challenge for him because playing left and right for him is the easier option that woukd allow him to orchestrate the drums the way he wants it.

[jakepriest]

When I said natural, I meant that it is hard to play the snare with your right hand if your bass drum is played with the right foot also. S

No, it is not. What do you think open handed players do?

[King Postwhore]

I don't know how people would think JP wrote the drum parts, I mean, listen to all three albums, even ADTOE (which had demos with drum programming), they all have TONS of Mangini-isms. It's pretty clear he has the freedom to come up with his own parts, but, as with any other member of the band, or any band, the producer gives instruction on how they want a part recorded, executed, etc.

That's what I've been saying all along. Mangini has contributed a lot more than what people seem to be giving him credit for. As you said, I'm not sure where people are getting the idea that JP is doing everything, or that Mangini hasn't had a say in the matter as far as his drum parts are concerned.

What you are not getting is in the interview MM talks about being on the ground floor of the writing process.  That's what he wants.  Not when the song is flushed out and he puts his mark on it.  He wants to be there for the structure of the song.  It's infancy.

[Kotowboy]

But on DT12 they wrote and recorded at the same time.

[King Postwhore]

But on DT12 they wrote and recorded at the same time.

Yes.  That's one out of 3 albums but in that interview he stated he wants to to that more.  I'm not sure why people can't understand that?

[Kotowboy]

It makes sense to me that JP wrote The Astonishing mostly on his own with JR helping out with composition - because he's a world class composer and understands music theory like nobodies

business.

If all 5 people contributed to every song on The Astonishing - it would have diluted JPs original vision and ideas and might have moved too far away from what he wanted.

Also - at the time of ADTOE - Mangini said he was "so relieved" that they wrote the album without him.

So if anything he should only have beef with being excluded from writing on just the 1 album.

[Prog Snob]

Or maybe it's just simply that he's posting this stuff because the band is about to go on a tour that is about Images and Words, and not because he has no other creative outlet with the band.

Or maybe he just posted it because he felt like it. 

[King Postwhore]

It makes sense to me that JP wrote The Astonishing mostly on his own with JR helping out with composition - because he's a world class composer and understands music theory like nobodies

business.

If all 5 people contributed to every song on The Astonishing - it would have diluted JPs original vision and ideas and might have moved too far away from what he wanted.

Also - at the time of ADTOE - Mangini said he was "so relieved" that they wrote the album without him.

So if anything he should only have beef with being excluded from writing on just the 1 album.

Oh I get that but that doesn't mean that MM doesn't feel left out.  That's all I'm saying.

[rumborak]

But on DT12 they wrote and recorded at the same time.

Yes.  That's one out of 3 albums but in that interview he stated he wants to to that more.  I'm not sure why people can't understand that?

i don't understand either, as MM laid it out so brutally plain in the video. He wants to be there during the creative writing part. For ADTOE he didn't expect anything, for DT12 he got into it a bit, so for TA he was probably hoping/expecting at least the same, if not more. Then he was entirely out of the picture again.

[Madman Shepherd]

But on DT12 they wrote and recorded at the same time.

Yes.  That's one out of 3 albums but in that interview he stated he wants to to that more.  I'm not sure why people can't understand that?

i don't understand either, as MM laid it out so brutally plain in the video. He wants to be there during the creative writing part. For ADTOE he didn't expect anything, for DT12 he got into it a bit, so for TA he was probably hoping/expecting at least the same, if not more. Then he was entirely out of the picture again.

I get why JP and JR wanted to do that.  With an album that complex it would have been very difficult having 3 more voices in the room.  At the same time, I don't blame MM for being frustrated at all.  When TA was first being hyped, I thought it was the perfect time for the band to do a concept album.  In retrospect, I think it was probably a pretty bad time considering the band dynamics.  Then again, I'm pretty biased against TA so I would have much rather preferred almost anything to that album.

[TAC]

TA seems like it is a one off kind of thing for the band. And ADTOE had its own circumstances. I think they will make the next album similar to coming up with DT12.

They have said they had an idea/direction about the next album. Hopefully MM will have a chance to contribute. I have a hard time thinking that after JP asked everyone to take a step back for the TA writing, that the next album would not have full blown band involvement.

[bosk1]

If my memory isn't cloudy, I believe that has already somewhat been confirmed, TAC.  The ideas they have so far, from what I understand, have come from a collaborative effort. 

[gzarruk]

I can't wait for the next album already, and it's probably going to be released in late 2018 

[Kotowboy]

I can't wait for the next album already, and it's probably going to be released in late 2018 

DT albums are around 2 - 2.5 years apart.

The Astonishing came out in January 2016. Next album Mid 2018 probably. But we'll most likely start to get info about it after the I&W25 Tour.

[gzarruk]

I can't wait for the next album already, and it's probably going to be released in late 2018 

DT albums are around 2 - 2.5 years apart.

The Astonishing came out in January 2016. Next album Mid 2018 probably. But we'll most likely start to get info about it after the I&W25 Tour.

If we follow the way both ADTOE and DT12 were written and recorded, they entered the studio in January, and finished the recording and mixing around mid year. Then, a single would be released a couple months before that, and the album would arrive around September. I consider September to be "late 2018", but that's just me saying it's a lot of time untill that 

[7th]

Sounds to me like the tone of someone working too hard and getting burned out or disappointed with the rewards.  Seems he's talking like a hired gun during this interview.  I personally would like to hear some more of his input in their music.  Not buying the nonsense about DT's "level" of material.  DT's songcraft is amazing in its compositional complexity, sure, but the results aren't always good songs, and they sit firmly on the musical chops shelf not on the great songwriters shelf in my opinion.  I hope MM does a solo album and I hope it rocks.  Frankly, JLB's solo stuff is pretty awesome, so maybe MM just needs an outlet like that for his musical creativity.  Playing other people's fantasy rock opera in sync with a bunch of projectors and lights and computers must be a stressful job void of much enjoyment.  The tone of his voice when he talks about it speaks volumes.         

[bosk1]

I can't wait for the next album already, and it's probably going to be released in late 2018 

DT albums are around 2 - 2.5 years apart.

The Astonishing came out in January 2016. Next album Mid 2018 probably. But we'll most likely start to get info about it after the I&W25 Tour.

If we follow the way both ADTOE and DT12 were written and recorded, they entered the studio in January, and finished the recording and mixing around mid year. Then, a single would be released a couple months before that, and the album would arrive around September. I consider September to be "late 2018", but that's just me saying it's a lot of time untill that 

Yeah, but that has largely been dictated by tour schedule.  They are mostly done touring The Astonishing now.  The I&W and Beyond tour is much more limited in scope.  I don't see anything keeping them from getting back into the studio before January 2018.  And I don't think JP wants them to have that big a gap between albums. 

[Stewie]

But on DT12 they wrote and recorded at the same time.

Yes.  That's one out of 3 albums but in that interview he stated he wants to to that more.  I'm not sure why people can't understand that?

As Kotowboy said, Mangini was actually relieved to not be included in the writing process for ADToE. He expressed that in several different interviews, so, it's hardly fair to count that album. The circumstances surrounding that album were very unique, and different from the normal routine. He really only has two albums to draw from; the self-titled and The Astonishing. He was included and present for the entire songwriting process on the self-titled, and not included at all in the songwriting for The Astonishing (although, as I said before, he did get to come up with most of the drum parts and arrangements, while sticking to the parameters set by JP).

I get that he wants to be included in the entire songwriting process, and doesn't want to be limited to only contributing drum parts, but he's only had TWO albums to draw from. He's only been in the band for what, almost seven years? It may seem like a lot, but in terms of album/tour cycles, that's nothing! Especially when compared to the amount of time MP was in the band. Out of two albums, he was included in the songwriting on one of them. Just because he wasn't on the following album, doesn't mean that will always be the case. He shouldn't express frustration about how on the first album (ADToE) he wasn't included, because that was part of the terms and conditions - to which he expressly agreed to and said he was "relieved" about. It seems way early in the game for him to complain about this sort of thing.

[erwinrafael]

When I said natural, I meant that it is hard to play the snare with your right hand if your bass drum is played with the right foot also. S

No, it is not. What do you think open handed players do?

Do you play drums?

For many open handed drummers, they had to LEARN how to lead with their strong foot and their weak arm, because it's easier to lead with both strong foot and strong arm. Unless you are Billy Cobham and you feel that it is your natural stance. It's also the reason why many open handed players express that they have achieved a higher level of limb independence and coordination compared to when they were doing cross handed drumming, because they forced themselves to lead with their weak arm.

[jakepriest]

When I said natural, I meant that it is hard to play the snare with your right hand if your bass drum is played with the right foot also. S

No, it is not. What do you think open handed players do?

Do you play drums?

For many open handed drummers, they had to LEARN how to lead with their strong foot and their weak arm, because it's easier to lead with both strong foot and strong arm. Unless you are Billy Cobham and you feel that it is your natural stance. It's also the reason why many open handed players express that they have achieved a higher level of limb independence and coordination compared to when they were doing cross handed drumming, because they forced themselves to lead with their weak arm.

Yes, I play drums. And it hasn't ever felt awkward to me to play open handed / play the snare with my right hand. Guess that's just me though. 

[rumborak]

I get that he wants to be included in the entire songwriting process, and doesn't want to be limited to only contributing drum parts, but he's only had TWO albums to draw from. He's only been in the band for what, almost seven years? It may seem like a lot, but in terms of album/tour cycles, that's nothing! Especially when compared to the amount of time MP was in the band. Out of two albums, he was included in the songwriting on one of them. Just because he wasn't on the following album, doesn't mean that will always be the case. He shouldn't express frustration about how on the first album (ADToE) he wasn't included, because that was part of the terms and conditions - to which he expressly agreed to and said he was "relieved" about. It seems way early in the game for him to complain about this sort of thing.

COME ON. Whatever profession one may be in, seven years is a LONG time to not make much headway. 3 albums is more than most bands even manage to put out, and who knows how long DT will stick around in its current formation.

It's also worth pointing out, because I get the impression people have forgotten the video itself, he even downplayed his contributions on DT12. Meaning, he wasn't satisfied with that level of contribution either. Again, he referred to himself as "10%". That's where he sees himself right now in the band. After seven years and three albums, a perceived 10% is poor, no matter how you twist it.

[King Postwhore]

I get that he wants to be included in the entire songwriting process, and doesn't want to be limited to only contributing drum parts, but he's only had TWO albums to draw from. He's only been in the band for what, almost seven years? It may seem like a lot, but in terms of album/tour cycles, that's nothing! Especially when compared to the amount of time MP was in the band. Out of two albums, he was included in the songwriting on one of them. Just because he wasn't on the following album, doesn't mean that will always be the case. He shouldn't express frustration about how on the first album (ADToE) he wasn't included, because that was part of the terms and conditions - to which he expressly agreed to and said he was "relieved" about. It seems way early in the game for him to complain about this sort of thing.

COME ON. Whatever profession one may be in, seven years is a LONG time to not make much headway. 3 albums is more than most bands even manage to put out, and who knows how long DT will stick around in its current formation.

It's also worth pointing out, because I get the impression people have forgotten the video itself, he even downplayed his contributions on DT12. Meaning, he wasn't satisfied with that level of contribution either. Again, he referred to himself as "10%". That's where he sees himself right now in the band. After seven years and three albums, a perceived 10% is poor, no matter how you twist it.

Bingo.  It may even be he wants more control over the drum sound as well. 

[erwinrafael]

I get that he wants to be included in the entire songwriting process, and doesn't want to be limited to only contributing drum parts, but he's only had TWO albums to draw from. He's only been in the band for what, almost seven years? It may seem like a lot, but in terms of album/tour cycles, that's nothing! Especially when compared to the amount of time MP was in the band. Out of two albums, he was included in the songwriting on one of them. Just because he wasn't on the following album, doesn't mean that will always be the case. He shouldn't express frustration about how on the first album (ADToE) he wasn't included, because that was part of the terms and conditions - to which he expressly agreed to and said he was "relieved" about. It seems way early in the game for him to complain about this sort of thing.

COME ON. Whatever profession one may be in, seven years is a LONG time to not make much headway. 3 albums is more than most bands even manage to put out, and who knows how long DT will stick around in its current formation.

It's also worth pointing out, because I get the impression people have forgotten the video itself, he even downplayed his contributions on DT12. Meaning, he wasn't satisfied with that level of contribution either. Again, he referred to himself as "10%". That's where he sees himself right now in the band. After seven years and three albums, a perceived 10% is poor, no matter how you twist it.

Wow, you really love hitting on this 10% thing. I have a chart for you.



 

Anyway, instead of just stopping at the 10%, I would rather focus on his statement after that: "But I’m still like… I’m like 10%, you know? So it’s getting there over time.."

And that he is proactively doing something about it by doing a solo album:

"I’m learning, I’m doing this right now as a learning experience. How am I supposed to offer stuff to a band like Dream Theater, which I have, but it just… it’s not on their level, so you know, I’ll do my stuff that’s not the same as theirs and well, whatever....Mainly I’m learning right now."

[Stewie]

I get that he wants to be included in the entire songwriting process, and doesn't want to be limited to only contributing drum parts, but he's only had TWO albums to draw from. He's only been in the band for what, almost seven years? It may seem like a lot, but in terms of album/tour cycles, that's nothing! Especially when compared to the amount of time MP was in the band. Out of two albums, he was included in the songwriting on one of them. Just because he wasn't on the following album, doesn't mean that will always be the case. He shouldn't express frustration about how on the first album (ADToE) he wasn't included, because that was part of the terms and conditions - to which he expressly agreed to and said he was "relieved" about. It seems way early in the game for him to complain about this sort of thing.

COME ON. Whatever profession one may be in, seven years is a LONG time to not make much headway. 3 albums is more than most bands even manage to put out, and who knows how long DT will stick around in its current formation.

It's also worth pointing out, because I get the impression people have forgotten the video itself, he even downplayed his contributions on DT12. Meaning, he wasn't satisfied with that level of contribution either. Again, he referred to himself as "10%". That's where he sees himself right now in the band. After seven years and three albums, a perceived 10% is poor, no matter how you twist it.

Again, not sure why you're counting ADToE...he knew going into it that he wasn't going to be included...and he said he was not only okay with it, but that he was relieved. So, he (or anyone else) shouldn't factor that album into his complaining. Like I said, he really only has two albums to draw from; the self-titled and The Astonishing. That's just two albums, for god's sake. One of which he was included and present throughout the entire songwriting process. I wouldn't be complaining about this kinda crap after just two albums, when I was really only excluded from one. But, that's just me.