Author Topic: New Mike Mangini Interview  (Read 25040 times)

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Offline Jester

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #140 on: December 06, 2016, 03:04:24 PM »
If I had to analyze what I like(d) about DT's drumming, it's not really the complexity per se. It's much rather how the beat interacts with the music. For example, one of the things I really loved about MP's drumming is that he would occasionally invert the beat, i.e. change where the 1 is in the beat. It totally recasts what's going on musically and makes it interesting. That, to my ears, has yet to happen once in MM-era DT.

So much this.  To me, that is what defines Portnoy.  Not his fills or how many drum pieces he got in on a track.

But I also think the reason Portnoy was able to do that was he was there at the initial stages and he didn't have to try a find his way into the process.  If he had an idea, people listened and maybe even if the others thought "I don't know" he probably at least had the "well, let's try it a couple of times before we say no."

There are lots of things that are "repetitive" in early DT that don't sound repetitive at all.  If you take the parts by themselves, they might even sound boring.  But bring them all together and it sounds like the most interesting thing you've ever heard.  But that can only really come from true collaboration.  Where Rudess asks Petrucci to play the D instead of the Eb so his idea works better.  Seems like by the time Mangini gets up to bat, he can't really have any of the music conform to his ideas.  He has to conform to it.
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Offline Jester

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #141 on: December 06, 2016, 03:11:10 PM »
Damn it.  How did this turn into the MP / MM discussion again?

Nevermind.  I just wish MM the best and hope he finds the joy that meets the expectations his mind conjured up the day he received the phone call starting his DT journey.

edit:  And props to erwinrafael for really taking the time to enjoy all the nuance that MM brings and sharing it on the forum.  I honestly don't care about all the "incredible limb" action or look at musicians in terms of "if I can't do it, I can't appreciate it".  I care about how it all relates to the song and erwinrafael does a great job looking at it from that angle.  Wish there were more like him.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 03:17:00 PM by Jester »
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Offline rumborak

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #142 on: December 06, 2016, 04:14:54 PM »
Seems like by the time Mangini gets up to bat, he can't really have any of the music conform to his ideas.  He has to conform to it.

This is my personal takeaway from this, I agree. For all the flak MM gets for his sound, his contributions etc, it seems he's kept at such a short leash by the powers to be that he couldn't do much if he wanted to. I mean, when you have five days to record 18 songs whose drum parts haven't even been written yet, the best you can do is a) do your job to lay down the material at the pace required and b) maybe, here and there, add a flourish you can call your own. But you certainly won't reinterpret a beat and invert it. You can't even add a fill of yours because the song structure is locked in already.
When then your drums get compressed into a pancake, yeah, there's just not much left.

For the record, I don't think the situation is much different with JM.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #143 on: December 06, 2016, 05:21:59 PM »
These days my favorite drummer is Harrison, but there's no question that MP was top of my list for probably 15 years. I can't think of another drummer (other than Peart maybe) whose fans are making a point out of being able to air drum the parts.

Maybe?  I think Peart is unquestionably the most "air drummed to" drummer on the planet.  Portnoy is definitely in the next tier along with Bonham and Phil Collins (who's in there merely on the strength of the most famous drum fill ever).

Offline Architeuthis

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #144 on: December 06, 2016, 05:36:33 PM »
 "I can feel his drumming in the air tonight"
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #145 on: December 06, 2016, 05:42:52 PM »
I don't like Neil Peart. His drum solos on his 360 degree kit just sound like a 5 year old hitting random things with boings and whooshes and train noises .

Plus he looks really stiff when he plays.

Not a fan.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #146 on: December 06, 2016, 05:53:04 PM »
"I can feel his drumming in the air tonight"

Haha, exactly! 

That one drum fill in Hotel California is pretty iconic, too, but that's a whole other thread... :lol :biggrin:

Online Madman Shepherd

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #147 on: December 06, 2016, 06:40:20 PM »
I think that's just not how DT operates anymore. Even before MP left it had coalesced into MP/JP/JR, and when MP left it was JP/JR from there on. The whole "band effort" thing of ADTOE and DT12, I get the impression, was mostly window dressing to appease the fans.


But if that was the case, then why would some songs on ADTOE or DT12 be credited to just JR and JP and others be credited to the four of them and still some credited to the three of them minus JM or others credited to the three of them minus JLB?

Offline jonny108

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #148 on: December 06, 2016, 07:20:00 PM »
LaBrie ... not positive.  He strikes me as somewhat Portnoyesque also, but on a different level.  He can have very good instincts, but never seems to be the spark or even bits and pieces guy (and rarely lyricist).

I think LaBrie has more input than you think, in terms of his vocals anyway.  For example, the high vocal section in Illumination Theory "The Pursuit of Truth" (11:27-12:07) was all James.  JP went for a coffee (or something), came back to the studio and James had recorded that entire section on his own and they kept it.  I'm certain James has a lot of input.   Can't remember where I saw that, wish I could find the interview. 


Offline erwinrafael

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #149 on: December 06, 2016, 07:21:43 PM »
If I had to analyze what I like(d) about DT's drumming, it's not really the complexity per se. It's much rather how the beat interacts with the music. For example, one of the things I really loved about MP's drumming is that he would occasionally invert the beat, i.e. change where the 1 is in the beat. It totally recasts what's going on musically and makes it interesting. That, to my ears, has yet to happen once in MM-era DT.

MM does the "inversion" differently in that he plays the same pattern on the bass and snare but the change in the 1 in the beat is played in the hi-hat. Some examples would be in the Breaking All Illusions stanza where the bass and snare continues the 7-6-5-4-3 time signature then he inserts the hi-hat that does a syncopated 4/4. Another example is in The Pursuit of Truth in IT where the bass and snare does the odd-metered pattern then the hi-hat enters with a 4/4 on the downbeat. This is one of the new dimensions he brought into DT because of his limb independence.

But for a more straightforward jolting changes in the downbeat ala MP, there's Dystopian Overture and the outro of Moment of Betrayal.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 07:27:47 PM by erwinrafael »

Offline bosk1

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #150 on: December 06, 2016, 07:28:22 PM »
But for a more straightforward jolting changes in the downbeat ala MP, there's Dystopian Overture and the outro of Moment of Betrayal.

THANK YOU!  That was gnawing at the back of my mind, and I couldn't figure out which one I was thinking of, but that's it.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #151 on: December 06, 2016, 07:44:52 PM »
The outro on Behind the Veil also has that "trick" of inverting the beat. He's playing the china cymbal on the downbeat and then it changes to the upbeats (from 6:32 to the end)  ;D
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline TheCountOfNYC

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #152 on: December 06, 2016, 07:52:22 PM »
You also get the offbeat cymbal effect at the end of Enigma Machine.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #153 on: December 06, 2016, 08:15:45 PM »
I'll check those examples when I get home, thanks. That said, a cymbal I don't think can truly invert the beat for me (if it were I would have noticed I would think) when the bass and snare still maintain the regular emphasis. Bass and snare are kinda the "clock" for me, and they decide the polarity of the beat.
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Offline Adami

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #154 on: December 06, 2016, 08:17:49 PM »
The ending to Moment of Betrayal is really good, but he's not so much inverting the beat as he is doubling the guitar at different times.

Which part of Dystopian Overture do you mean?
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #155 on: December 06, 2016, 08:45:10 PM »
I'll check those examples when I get home, thanks. That said, a cymbal I don't think can truly invert the beat for me (if it were I would have noticed I would think) when the bass and snare still maintain the regular emphasis. Bass and snare are kinda the "clock" for me, and they decide the polarity of the beat.

Which is what makes what Mangini is doing a signature style. He plays the regular beat and inverts the beat at the same time. So he does it differently from MP.

The ending to Moment of Betrayal is really good, but he's not so much inverting the beat as he is doubling the guitar at different times.

Which part of Dystopian Overture do you mean?

Yep, the outro of MB is not an inversion but more of keeping you guessing what the 1 is in the beat.

In Dystopian Overture, that short upbeat section with A New Beginning melody. More of the melody is in 7/8 as followed by the cymbal highlights but the bass and snare is doing 4/4.

Offline Adami

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #156 on: December 06, 2016, 08:47:32 PM »
I'm going to need a time stamp for the Overture one lol, but I do remember hearing a small amount of really cool ideas on TA.

Also your example of BAI (assume it's the one I think it is) is one of my favorite MM moments. Not inverting anything, but keeping the stead hi-hat open-close thing while doing the rest in the 7, 6, 5, 7 part. I always try to see if I can play it when I hear it, but I'll never be able to. As soon as I start concentrating on the hihat part, I lose count for the rest, and vice versa.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #157 on: December 06, 2016, 09:39:08 PM »
I'll check those examples when I get home, thanks. That said, a cymbal I don't think can truly invert the beat for me (if it were I would have noticed I would think) when the bass and snare still maintain the regular emphasis. Bass and snare are kinda the "clock" for me, and they decide the polarity of the beat.

Which is what makes what Mangini is doing a signature style. He plays the regular beat and inverts the beat at the same time. So he does it differently from MP.

I guess that's fair, but for someone like me who isn't a drummer, this kinda subtle stuff will get lost.
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Offline FsF

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #158 on: December 06, 2016, 09:59:08 PM »
Not that it's likely to happen any time in the near future, but if Mike were to leave, who on earth could even attempt to replace him? Not in the sense of stature or position in the band, but literally who could play his drum lines...?

Offline Adami

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #159 on: December 06, 2016, 10:00:35 PM »
Not that it's likely to happen any time in the near future, but if Mike were to leave, who on earth could even attempt to replace him? Not in the sense of stature or position in the band, but literally who could play his drum lines...?

Backing tracks.  ;D
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #160 on: December 06, 2016, 10:25:12 PM »
I guess that's fair, but for someone like me who isn't a drummer, this kinda subtle stuff will get lost.

I think you just have to listen to three such lines, then you'll start hearing them all over the music. :) You can not unhear them anymore.

Also, for those who want to know how to recognize immediately if it is Mangini playing the drums without referring to this complex multilimb playing, listen to the bass drum. Go through The Astonishing listening intently to the bass drum patterns, then you will find that when you listen to other Mangini songs, you will recognize it is him playing. It's the same with Portnoy and his hi-hat. :lol

I'm going to need a time stamp for the Overture one lol, but I do remember hearing a small amount of really cool ideas on TA.

Also your example of BAI (assume it's the one I think it is) is one of my favorite MM moments. Not inverting anything, but keeping the stead hi-hat open-close thing while doing the rest in the 7, 6, 5, 7 part. I always try to see if I can play it when I hear it, but I'll never be able to. As soon as I start concentrating on the hihat part, I lose count for the rest, and vice versa.

Yep. He really does not "invert", but achieves the effect of keeping you guessing what the 1 is by playing two patterns at the same time. That's why he is not very airdrummable. You can airdrum one or the other pattern but not both. :lol

Not that it's likely to happen any time in the near future, but if Mike were to leave, who on earth could even attempt to replace him? Not in the sense of stature or position in the band, but literally who could play his drum lines...?

Virgil Donati can. It would just sound more fusion, less metal.

THANK YOU!  That was gnawing at the back of my mind, and I couldn't figure out which one I was thinking of, but that's it.

I just remembered another one, in the Walking Shadow. The part with the ominous riff and Mangini is doing this simple ticking clock effect but the downbeat shifts every other line.
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 10:47:24 PM by erwinrafael »

Offline Jester

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #161 on: December 06, 2016, 11:53:57 PM »
erwinrafael should start a blog (if he hasn't already) that has entries going over specific DT drum parts.  I say blog so people can comment, but it is separate from the "lesson" instead of having to find the lesson between all the commentary.  And if somebody is commenting sounds like they can handle a special lesson on their own, ER could give rights for a guest blog entry.
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Offline Adami

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #162 on: December 07, 2016, 01:34:30 AM »
Way off topic, but I just found this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o0qpqq3eF0

If they ever need someone to replace MM......
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Offline Jester

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #163 on: December 07, 2016, 01:40:12 AM »
Way off topic, but I just found this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o0qpqq3eF0

If they ever need someone to replace MM......

You are looking at it the wrong way.  It isn't about who will replace Mangini, but how many people can Mangini simultaneously replace.

He can become Superior Drummer:  Mangini edition.  Tired of Dave Lombardo, maybe Hetfield finally tells Lars he's tired of his antics ....   Just write your new album with Superior Drummer.  Then activate the Mangini plug-in.  With the click of the button, money transferred to his account, he shows up at the studio, listens to your Superior Drummer songs and quickly replaces it with real drums.  One Listen.  One take.  Your band is allowed to activate the plug-in no more than once every two years.

And before you ask, yes the Rudess plug-in is available as well.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #164 on: December 07, 2016, 07:24:43 AM »
Not that it's likely to happen any time in the near future, but if Mike were to leave, who on earth could even attempt to replace him? Not in the sense of stature or position in the band, but literally who could play his drum lines...?

I think Bobby Jarzombek could play both Portnoy's and Mangini's drum lines. He would also fit the band very well.
His playing is just insane  :eek
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline goo-goo

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #165 on: December 07, 2016, 07:33:28 AM »
Not that it's likely to happen any time in the near future, but if Mike were to leave, who on earth could even attempt to replace him? Not in the sense of stature or position in the band, but literally who could play his drum lines...?

I think Bobby Jarzombek could play both Portnoy's and Mangini's drum lines. He would also fit the band very well.
His playing is just insane  :eek

Bobby J was indeed contacted by DT management to audition but he didn't want to do it. But he's a monster drummer. Check out the last two Fates albums and one called Zierler "Esc". 
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #166 on: December 07, 2016, 08:48:53 AM »
Not that it's likely to happen any time in the near future, but if Mike were to leave, who on earth could even attempt to replace him? Not in the sense of stature or position in the band, but literally who could play his drum lines...?

I think Bobby Jarzombek could play both Portnoy's and Mangini's drum lines. He would also fit the band very well.
His playing is just insane  :eek

Bobby J was indeed contacted by DT management to audition but he didn't want to do it. But he's a monster drummer. Check out the last two Fates albums and one called Zierler "Esc".

But he rejected it, not because he didn't want it, but because he didn't have enough time to rehearse and learn all the songs due to his touring schedule. Would have loved to see him audition, even though, with so little time to prepare, he could've made mistakes and people would never forgive him, like what happened to Aquiles
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline bosk1

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #167 on: December 07, 2016, 08:55:48 AM »
Aquiles really didn't come across well in the audition videos, which is a shame.  Not his fault, really.  And I don't think it was done with the intention of making him look bad.  But the footage for each drummer was so (relatively) short compared to the total audition time, so the fact that his audition footage focused mainly on what he couldn't do, combined with his slightly broken English, just make him look kind of lost.  Again, kind of a bummer for him.  Even though I initially didn't really give him much of a shot at getting the gig and stacking up against the other guys who were auditioning, I became more familiar with him as a result of the process, and he definitely earned my respect.
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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #168 on: December 07, 2016, 09:00:17 AM »
But Aquilles did come across as an AWESOME guy. That much was clear.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline rumborak

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #169 on: December 07, 2016, 09:00:23 AM »
I always felt the list of auditioners who *seriously* entertained joining DT was rather short. I mean, no way in hell can you tell me that Virgil Donati would essentially stop what he's doing and play Mike Portnoy fills day after day.
I think quite of few them would have been open to touring with them for an album or two, but too many of them were such a hot commodity that they weren't going to consign themselves to be a replacement drummer for the rest of their career.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #170 on: December 07, 2016, 09:08:09 AM »
But Aquilles did come across as an AWESOME guy. That much was clear.

Oddly enough, when I saw the videos I mostly didn't like his image (i.e. the dark metal look) of all things. It was ironic that DT themselves moved into that direction right after. I remember liking MM's casual look, and when they did the first photoshoot, he suddenly had the long dyed black hair, similar to Aquiles.
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Offline gzarruk

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #171 on: December 07, 2016, 09:11:50 AM »
Aquiles really didn't come across well in the audition videos, which is a shame.  Not his fault, really.  And I don't think it was done with the intention of making him look bad.  But the footage for each drummer was so (relatively) short compared to the total audition time, so the fact that his audition footage focused mainly on what he couldn't do, combined with his slightly broken English, just make him look kind of lost.  Again, kind of a bummer for him.  Even though I initially didn't really give him much of a shot at getting the gig and stacking up against the other guys who were auditioning, I became more familiar with him as a result of the process, and he definitely earned my respect.

That's what I meant, Aquiles is a great drummer, in fact, one of my favorites, but the audition didn't make him look so good. Same coul've happened with Bobby if he tried to audition without enough time to practice and get familiar with the songs, he would have just dug his own grave right there for all the audience to watch, over and over again  :-X

Aquiles did get it right, though. Don't know how many of you watched his full band version of TDOE, which was released a couple months ago on his new DVD, but it was great! (still prefer Mangini, though)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWpPNBk3ftU

I always felt the list of auditioners who *seriously* entertained joining DT was rather short. I mean, no way in hell can you tell me that Virgil Donati would essentially stop what he's doing and play Mike Portnoy fills day after day.
I think quite of few them would have been open to touring with them for an album or two, but too many of them were such a hot commodity that they weren't going to consign themselves to be a replacement drummer for the rest of their career.

This. 100% this.
Even, if you hear Derek Roddy's interview, after a couple years or something, about the audition, even though he sounded a little bitter over it in general, he basically said he and, I think he mentioned Thomas Lang, among others, weren't interested on joining full time, but rather just connect with the DT guys and enjoy the exposure they were going to get to a big fanbase. The only ones, imo, who really wanted to be in the band were Mangini, Aquiles, and probably Wildoer.
Here's the link to the interview, I haven't listened to it in a loong time, so I might be remembering it differently: https://www.google.com.pe/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjI3sTXu-LQAhUHxiYKHf-pCpAQtwIIHjAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Drxg2dPikx3g&usg=AFQjCNHfUHgWL6WJUTdHi_XoPMRuWSGDTQ
It sounds like, "ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk, ruk." Instead of the more pleasing kick drum sound of, "gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk, gzarruk."

Offline rumborak

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #172 on: December 07, 2016, 09:26:04 AM »
Yup, those three are the exact same list I had in mind.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #173 on: December 07, 2016, 09:31:27 AM »
I always felt the list of auditioners who *seriously* entertained joining DT was rather short. I mean, no way in hell can you tell me that Virgil Donati would essentially stop what he's doing and play Mike Portnoy fills day after day.
I think quite of few them would have been open to touring with them for an album or two, but too many of them were such a hot commodity that they weren't going to consign themselves to be a replacement drummer for the rest of their career.
I think you are grossly underselling the role as DT's drummer.  But that said, yeah, there is definitely something to that.  All of those guys were in demand within their own niches, and none of them were just sitting around looking for work.  But other than Roddy, who I think was pretty clear about not wanting to officially join, I would hate to speculate about any of their true intentions.  We just don't know for sure.  I'm not trying to downplay the fact that the audition videos had an obvious bias in the presentation.  But at the end of the day, we just don't really know too much about what any of these guys were actually thinking, other than what they have said. 

Here is my personal speculation (and it is only speculation), just based on the audition videos and my very vague (and perhaps faulty) recollection of what little snippets we found around the Internet afterward:

-Mangini:  Really wanted the gig.  Was perhaps chosen in advance, or at least the band was leaning that way.

-Priester:  Appears to have really wanted the gig.  At the very least, was happy to get the exposure.  Unless I am missing something, you don't cancel a couple of gigs and travel halfway around the world if you aren't serious.

-Wildoer:  Appears to have really wanted the gig and would likely have taken it if offered.  But he is in an interesting position.  He obviously has a great relationship with James and was very enthusiastic about working with the DT guys.  But abandoning Darkane and likely relocating to the U.S. would have entailed a HUGE life change.  Hard to say if he really would have taken the gig if offered, or if he was just putting his best foot forward for the exposure.  Or maybe doing it with the mindset of, "I'm really comfortable where I am, but no harm in testing the waters and going for it, and if by chance I am offered the job, I can make the decision at that point."  A lot of us in the working world make similar choices when we are relatively happy with where we are and an unexpected opportunity comes our way.

-Minneman:  He is hard to figure out.  Despite being briefly outspoken shortly after the footage was released, he is hard to read for me.  His comments after the fact seemed to say he would not have taken the gig.  But I remember feeling like there were other comments indicating he might have if everything fell into place in a way that made sense for him.  So I think maybe he was also kind of in the mindset of "I'm really comfortable where I am, but no harm in testing the waters and going for it, and if by chance I am offered the job, I can make the decision at that point," but maybe not exactly for the same types of reasons as Wildoer might have been.  I think he was perhaps more in the "I don't think this is a direction that will ultimately work for me, but let's just go in open minded, give it a shot, and see what happens."  I could be off, but that is my best guess.

-Lang and Donati seemed to me to have similar mindsets in terms of something along the lines of, "Eh, probably not the direction that will be best, but it's a good opportunity, so let's give it a shot and see what happens."

-Roddy, like Mangini and Wildoer is fairly easy to figure out because he told us in detail what he was thinking going in, so there is little mystery there.

Anyway, those are my best guesses.  But like anyone else's, a lot of it us pure speculation and "feeling" more than being fact-based.  I could be overly optimistic in my assessments in terms of whether any of these guys outside of Mangini was truly interested.  But ultimately, we know so little about these guys' private lives and their decision making processes that all we can do is guess based on the scantest of information.
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Re: New Mike Mangini Interview
« Reply #174 on: December 07, 2016, 09:37:27 AM »
I have been a music fan my whole life, and while I don't consider myself a drummer, I played when I was younger and have a nice set collecting dust in my basement. And I had never even heard of Thomas Lang. Or Derek Roddy. Or Aquilles Priester.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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