Author Topic: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?  (Read 1958 times)

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Offline RoeDent

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90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« on: November 28, 2016, 10:42:22 AM »
Can't find the Yes thread, so this'll have to do.

I've recently gotten into Yes, purchasing The Yes Album, Fragile and most recently Relayer. However, I also want to give their 90s/00s output a fair crack while I'm here, and before I get so engrossed in what for many is their golden age that I fail to properly appreciate the later output, of which I have absolutely no doubt that there is plenty of good music in. Like, I've really enjoyed what I've heard of 90s Rush, with Roll the Bones being one of my favourite straight-ahead rock albums.

So which 90s Yes album would you recommend I start with? (And please, no "Don't get that. It sucks." I'd rather form my own judgment without too much influence. Enthusiasts only please.)

Offline Lepprador

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2016, 11:01:16 AM »
Talk

Offline Orbert

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2016, 11:43:58 AM »
Seconded.  Talk would be the place to start, but I almost always prefer going chronologically, so maybe start with Union if you're curious.

It's important to understand that post-80's, there's not much consistency with the Yes albums.  This is partly due to the lineup changing even more than ever before and partly due to the band only reforming on rare occasions to create a new album.  Those two factors affected each other as well.

1991 Union was promoted as both Yes factions together, but a glance at the credits reveals that it's actually most of what was originally going to be the second Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe album, a Howe solo piece, and some leftover RabinYes tunes filling it out.  And that's exactly what it sounds like.

1994 Talk - After the Union tour, which unlike the Union album was incredible, Bruford rode off into the sunset, Howe went to find some Vegan food, and the remaining members were keen to create a new Yes album.  Wakeman and Rabin in particular were looking forward to working together, but Phil Carson from Victory records wanted only the 90125 lineup.  Talk is therefore the third and final "YesWest" or RabinYes album, but even that is deceiving.  Once the basic tracks were laid down, Trevor Rabin digitized everything and completed the arranging, engineering, and production on his computer.  This also included overdubbing keyboard, bass, and guitar parts himself, and literally creating tracks by digitally editing pieces of other tracks.  The result is an album that's more a Rabin solo album than a Yes album (although some would say that that's true of 90125 and Big Generator as well).

1996 Keys to Ascension
1997 Keys to Ascension 2 - If the liner notes are to be believed, the "classic" 70's lineup (Anderson, Squire, Howe, Wakeman, White) made a pact to reunite 20 years later and make a new album.  The first KtA album was two CDs, mostly live material from a reunion gig at San Luis Obispo, but two tracks of new studio material.  KtA 2 is one disc of each.  Collectively, the two albums represent a marketing failure of the highest order.  Most fans have rearranged the tracks to create a 2-disc live album and a single CD of new studio material including two "epics".  Also, the live material is heavily (and sometimes obviously) overdubbed.

1997 Open Your Eyes - This album began life as a Conspiracy (Chris Squire - Billy Sherwood) album, but eventually became a legitimate Yes album.  Alan White was already the drummer, and Jon Anderson and Steve Howe were both brought on board.  Billy Sherwood played some guitar and most keyboards, with additional keyboard work provided by studio musicians.  This album and KtA 2 were released within a month of each other, leading most fans to wonder what exactly was going on with Yes in terms of lineup and direction.  KtA 2 seemed to favor the 70's sound and more adventurous arrangements, while Open Your Eyes was a clear step towards more concise songwriting and arrangements.

1999 The Ladder seemed to split the difference.  Some songs have extended instrumental sections reminiscent of "classic" Yes, while most are shorter, but seem to have some progressive influence.  This is the only Yes album with a six-person lineup (Jon Anderson, Steve Howe, Billy Sherwood, Chris Squire, Alan White and Igor Khoroshev).

2001 Magnification is the only Yes album (officially) with a four-person lineup.  An unfortunate incident with keyboardist Igor Khoroshev led to his departure from the band, and Billy Sherwood did not seem interested in continuing to be a named member with second-class rights within the band.  This left them without a keyboard player, so Magnification is four-piece Yes plus an orchestra.  The symbiosis works better than one might think, because the songs were written with the orchestra in mind, where it would be filling in the spaces, and even taking over for a few sections.

2011 Fly From Here - After another extended break, the band reformed yet again.  Fly From Here features a five-part title suite which is a reworking of a song cut from the 1980 album Drama.  In fact, returning for Fly From Here are Geoff Downes on keyboards and Trevor Horn producing, and the singer at the time was Benoît David who IMO sounds very much like Trevor Horn.  This album is similar to Drama in terms of sound, for obvious reasons.

2014 Heaven & Earth was the first album with singer Jon Davison, who sounds the most like Jon Anderson of all singers other than Anderson himself.  The songs are generally longer, but mostly feel like simple songs padded out with endless repeats rather than the instrumental excursions found on true prog albums.  This album is favored by very few long-time Yesfans.

Offline Skeever

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2016, 12:02:25 PM »
2001 Magnification is the only Yes album (officially) with a four-person lineup.  An unfortunate incident with keyboardist Igor Khoroshev led to his departure from the band, and Billy Sherwood did not seem interested in continuing to be a named member with second-class rights within the band.  This left them without a keyboard player, so Magnification is four-piece Yes plus an orchestra.  The symbiosis works better than one might think, because the songs were written with the orchestra in mind, where it would be filling in the spaces, and even taking over for a few sections.

This is the best of the bunch by far, IMO. Not really big on any of the others.

Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2016, 12:43:44 AM »
I would go for Talk too, for me it's one of the best Yes records, but it's Rabin's version of Yes.

For the more classical Yes I would recommend the studio tracks of Keys, Magnification and I even liked Fly From Here.
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline Orbert

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2016, 07:43:35 AM »
I liked Fly From Here for what it was, which was Yes attempting to carry on without Jon Anderson.  For the most part, they succeeded.  They wisely chose to make it as close as possible to the Drama sound, the only other Yes album (at the time) without Jon Anderson and generally well regarded by Yesfans.  Downes and Howe have a good sound and writing relationship from working together in Asia all those years.

If possible, try to find the Japanese import which includes an extended version of "Hour of Need".  It's over twice as long, with instrumentals at both the front end and back end, turning it into a mini-suite of its own.  After the title suite, the rest of the songs are mostly powerpop, maybe Asia-level prog, except for the closing tune, "Into the Storm" which actually gets proggy.  But the extended "Hour of Need" pushes the prog/pop ratio from maybe 60/40 to a more respectable 70/30.  By time you factor in Howe's acoustic piece "Solitaire", you've got a Yes album not unlike much of what they did in the 70's (except for the "big three").  People focus on the epics so much that they forget that most Yes albums were not chock full of them.  Except for a relatively short period in the mid-70's, Yes albums were always a combination of shorter and longer songs.

Offline Polarbear

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2016, 08:07:48 AM »
I'd say Talk is the best Yes album they did, after the classic era and 90125..

Offline Stadler

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2016, 08:52:26 AM »
Look, HUGE Yes fan, Going For The One is my favorite record of all time by any band.   I happen to like the Rabin years as well.

I would listen to Orbert, if it was me, and listen in order.   If nothing else, the Yes catalogue is very much "of it's time" and somewhat dependent on what came before (like the aforementioned "Magnification", which is excellent). 

Offline ytserush

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2016, 05:33:29 PM »

2001 Magnification is the only Yes album (officially) with a four-person lineup.  An unfortunate incident with keyboardist Igor Khoroshev led to his departure from the band, and Billy Sherwood did not seem interested in continuing to be a named member with second-class rights within the band.  This left them without a keyboard player, so Magnification is four-piece Yes plus an orchestra.  The symbiosis works better than one might think, because the songs were written with the orchestra in mind, where it would be filling in the spaces, and even taking over for a few sections.


Is there a place that details the departure of Igor?

Offline Orbert

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2016, 05:42:28 PM »
In a word, Yes!  (sorry, I couldn't resist)


SO WHAT EVER HAPPENNED TO IGOR


Yes Keyboardist Accused Of Sexual Assault

07/27/2000 12:00 PM, LAUNCH
Craig Rosen

(7/27/00, 12 p.m. ET) - Keyboardist Igor Khoroshev has been charged with one count of assault and battery and one count of sexual assault in the wake of the band's Washington, D.C.-area show Sunday (July 23). Yes and Kansas played the Nissan Pavilion that night, and during a break in the show Khoroshev allegedly sat on the lap of a 26-year-old security guard and tried to force a kiss on her. When she refused his advances, Khoroshev allegedly bit her on the neck and caused a red mark to rise on her skin, leading to the assault and battery charge. Later on, the keyboardist tried again, this time with a 22-year-old security guard. He is accused of grabbing her buttocks and making lewd comments, leading to the sexual assault charge.

Khoroshev was arrested by Prince William County (Virginia) police officers, fingerprinted and photographed, and brought in front of a local magistrate. The keyboardist, who did not have a lawyer at the session, was freed on $1,000 unsecured bond and left the area. An arraignment date has been set for August 9, with a trial to follow on September 22. It's unclear whether Khoroshev will appear himself at the arraignment and trial, or whether he'll have legal representation stand in for him.

The next stop for the Yes/Kansas double-bill is tonight (July 27) at the Alltel Pavilion in Raleigh, North Carolina. A spokesperson for Yes was unavailable for comment. -- Bruce Simon, New York

Offline Orbert

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2016, 05:47:51 PM »
Yes chose to distance themselves from this.  Stuff like this is the last thing Jon Anderson wanted the band associated with.  Not that it actually came up a lot, but hey, he was basically a hired gun, a temp.

Offline Mladen

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2016, 01:30:35 AM »
The Ladder

Probably the most classic sounding later-day Yes album. Also, it's absolutely excellent.

Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2016, 01:36:41 AM »
I'm probably in the minority but The Ladder for me is one of the worst Yes records of all time. The title track is okay but then we have "What you gonna do when the lighting strikes" sing-a-long songs. Even Teakbois from ABWH is better (and that was a low point).
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2016, 02:20:06 AM »
Talk. Because Endless Dream is the best Yes song (given that I came into Yes from listening to Dream Theater and that song really sounded like something Dream Theater could do).

Don't take my word for it because I am no Yes expert even if I have listened to all of their studio albums.  :lol

Offline Stadler

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2016, 09:16:50 AM »
I'm probably in the minority but The Ladder for me is one of the worst Yes records of all time. The title track is okay but then we have "What you gonna do when the lighting strikes" sing-a-long songs. Even Teakbois from ABWH is better (and that was a low point).

No, I'm with you.  The only thing I like less is "Open Your Eyes". 

Offline Mladen

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2017, 04:31:48 AM »
Would anyone be into helping out the Yes survivor? We're onto Magnification, a good album which deserves more voters. And as consolations and finals are getting closer, we could use more voters.

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2017, 04:37:36 AM »
^ What he said ^

Also, I'm going to be controversial & say that I actually really like Union. Come at me.
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Offline erwinrafael

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2017, 04:39:46 AM »
Lift Me Up deserved the airplay it got.

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2017, 04:47:29 AM »
Yeah, that song's really grown on me since the first time I've heard of. So did Saving My Heart & Dangerous to lesser extents.

I'll also just say this right now: The More We Live (Let Go) is a top 10 Yes song, & Without Hope You Cannot Start The Day isn't too far behind.

To be honest, my biggest issue with the album is the track order. I don't have the album (not on digital  :loser:), but if I did I'd probably re-order the tracks to something like this:

1. I Would Have Waited Forever
2. Shock To The System
3. Take The Water To The Mountain
4. Lift Me Up
5. Saving My Heart
6. Evensong
7. The Miracle Of Life
8. Dangerous
9. Masquerade
10. Silent Talking
11. Without Hope You Cannot Start The Day
12. Angkor Wat
13. The More We Live (Let Go)
14. Holding On
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Offline SoundscapeMN

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2017, 04:23:09 PM »
wtf is MIND DRIVE????  :huh: :huh: :huh: :huh:

best Yes piece the last 35 years.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvBknHFa8PQ

Offline Orbert

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2017, 05:18:44 PM »
Wow, I had to do the math, and I agree with you.  Holy crap.

Actually, I'll go even farther back, more like 40.  I don't think they'll ever beat "Awaken" but "Mind Drive" is the best thing since "Awaken" for me.

Offline jammindude

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #21 on: January 22, 2017, 08:16:26 AM »
Mind Drive is excellent.....but of the two epic pieces from the Keys sessions, I actually prefer That, That Is.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2017, 09:04:54 AM »
Mind Drive is really good, but I'll take probably a dozen songs from the Rabin albums over it, especially Endless Dream, I Am Waiting, Changes, Hearts, The Calling and Shoot High, Aim Low.

Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2017, 10:00:39 AM »
Yeah, Mind Drive is good but I never thought it was something special.
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline RoeDent

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2017, 10:24:20 AM »
I've seen a box set, Essentially Yes, which has Talk, Open Your Eyes, The Ladder and Magnification plus a live album. I'm tempted to get it, in a "kill two birds (or four, actually) with one stone" kinda way. But I'm wondering what the packaging is like, mainly with regards to a booklet (or lack thereof).

Offline Orbert

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2017, 09:09:29 PM »
Mind Drive is really good, but I'll take probably a dozen songs from the Rabin albums over it, especially Endless Dream, I Am Waiting, Changes, Hearts, The Calling and Shoot High, Aim Low.

Trevor Rabin is an excellent guitarist and an excellent musician overall.  I like a lot of his stuff, but when it comes it Yes, I will almost always reach for Steve Howe over Trevor Rabin.

Also, Rick Wakeman + Steve Howe + Chris Squire beats anything else in prog for me.  A completely different class of music.  I'm a shameless fanatic for the 70's stuff they did.  The 90's stuff isn't quite as strong, but I can still listen to it over and over and still hear new things.  Trevor's stuff is good, but he doesn't keep pulling me back in the way Howe and Wakeman do.

Offline splent

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2017, 10:51:44 PM »
I really enjoyed Fly From Here
I don’t know what to put here anymore

Offline bundy

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2017, 01:50:13 AM »
Mind Drive is really good, but I'll take probably a dozen songs from the Rabin albums over it, especially Endless Dream, I Am Waiting, Changes, Hearts, The Calling and Shoot High, Aim Low.

Trevor Rabin is an excellent guitarist and an excellent musician overall.  I like a lot of his stuff, but when it comes it Yes, I will almost always reach for Steve Howe over Trevor Rabin.

Also, Rick Wakeman + Steve Howe + Chris Squire beats anything else in prog for me.  A completely different class of music.  I'm a shameless fanatic for the 70's stuff they did.  The 90's stuff isn't quite as strong, but I can still listen to it over and over and still hear new things.  Trevor's stuff is good, but he doesn't keep pulling me back in the way Howe and Wakeman do.

This. I struggle to think of any trio that match these three as well and that includes ELP, Rush, (Genesis: Banks, Collins, Rutherford), Cream, PF (Mason, Gilmour, Wright). Wakeman, Howe and Squire are simply unparalleled. Throw in Bruford and you have musical perfection. (perfection = CTTE) :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy :hefdaddy

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2017, 07:49:25 PM »
Mind Drive is really good, but I'll take probably a dozen songs from the Rabin albums over it, especially Endless Dream, I Am Waiting, Changes, Hearts, The Calling and Shoot High, Aim Low.

Trevor Rabin is an excellent guitarist and an excellent musician overall.  I like a lot of his stuff, but when it comes it Yes, I will almost always reach for Steve Howe over Trevor Rabin.

Also, Rick Wakeman + Steve Howe + Chris Squire beats anything else in prog for me.  A completely different class of music.  I'm a shameless fanatic for the 70's stuff they did.  The 90's stuff isn't quite as strong, but I can still listen to it over and over and still hear new things.  Trevor's stuff is good, but he doesn't keep pulling me back in the way Howe and Wakeman do.

While I agree that Wakeman/Howe/Squire was an amazing trio, that doesn't mean I am going to like everything they did over everything Yes did with Rabin.  Most of my favorite Yes songs feature Howe, not Rabin, and Wakeman is on quite a few of them as well (many of the songs from Fragile and Close to the Edge).  And I generally reach for the 70s stuff when I am in the mood for Yes, too, so I am basically with ya.  :biggrin:

Offline Orbert

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2017, 09:52:39 PM »
There are some later things by HoweYes that don't thrill me, and I would put some of RabinYes over them.  But I tend to listen to albums, not songs.  There are just too many other Yes albums I would reach for before 90125, Big Generator, or even Talk.  I've always liked 90125, and I've come to appreciate Big Generator and Talk over the years, but I rarely find myself putting them on.  They're about due, though.  Maybe I'll give 'em a spin.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2017, 10:09:08 PM »
It's hard to have the time anymore to listen to whole albums uninterrupted.  I tend to go in phases with artists and whatnot, where I will listen to the same artist that day, several days, a week, etc., so I'll go through a Yes phase and listen to all of some of those albums over the span of a week, but not necessarily at the same time.  In the case of Yes, it doesn't help that all of their albums from the last 20 years are not ones I'd listen to all of anyway.

Offline The Letter M

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2017, 11:06:03 PM »
It's hard to have the time anymore to listen to whole albums uninterrupted.  I tend to go in phases with artists and whatnot, where I will listen to the same artist that day, several days, a week, etc., so I'll go through a Yes phase and listen to all of some of those albums over the span of a week, but not necessarily at the same time.  In the case of Yes, it doesn't help that all of their albums from the last 20 years are not ones I'd listen to all of anyway.

I am quite like this, too, though in the case of Yes's earlier stuff, because the albums were shorter, it's always a bit easier to spin CTTE or Relayer for a quick listen, as opposed to some modern albums that are double or triple the length.

My problem with Yes, in terms of listening to them anymore, is that they haven't been very prolific in the last 15 years. Only 3 studio albums since 2001, so they've been largely out of my mind in the last 5-6 years as newer bands and artists, and older ones who still release albums, continue to put out new work. That's the thing with me - I will go through phases of listening to a band or artists, but usually only if they've had new albums out, either leading up to the new release, around it's release, or for weeks after. Currently, I've been listening to a TON of Neal Morse solo stuff since TSOAD came out, and have been on a binge of it for the last few weeks.

With Yes, after I initially discovered them (along with most other 70's prog bands) about 13 years ago, I played the HECK out of them, but since then, I don't spin them as often. Like Orbert, I do listen to complete albums, so when I want to spin a Yes album, I do tend to hear the whole thing, but Yes have fallen out of my spotlight for some time now, especially 90's Yes, though I will say I still listen to Keys To Ascension/Keystudio every now and then (easily my favorite of their Post-Rabin works), and the occasional Fly From Here, but that's about it.

The back-half of Yes' catalog never got as much attention from me as the front half (Yes to Drama), but these days, neither half gets much attention really. Maybe if they decide to put out a new album with Billy on bass, I may slowly listen to them again, because even the 90's stuff still has some great moments, though the average over-all album was mixed at best. I think if you made a 2-CD compilation of their best stuff after Drama, you could have a KILLER double album. :tup

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Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #32 on: January 24, 2017, 01:18:06 AM »
I personally like Rabin's guitar style much much much more than Howe's, and I always liked the Rabin Yes records, so I spin all of them regularly. From the classic Yes it's The Yes Album, Fragile And Close To The Edge that are my go to records. And I'm a big fan of ABWH.

The rest of the records get a listen only if I'm on a Yes binge, which happens every couple of years.
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline Stadler

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #33 on: January 24, 2017, 07:06:33 AM »
I prefer the Howe records as a general rule, but I really LOVE that sound that Rabin gets, including the layered vocals.   I really think the Union album was a missed opportunity.  I would love to hear what Howe, Rabin, and Squire could come up with musically, and, with Anderson, vocally.

Offline erwinrafael

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Re: 90s/00s Yes - Where do I begin?
« Reply #34 on: January 24, 2017, 07:31:00 AM »
I listen a lot to Talk becaise Allan White is so prominent in that album. He is the main reason why I love The Calling. And his work on Endless Dream gave a lot of character to the song.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2017, 07:54:02 AM by erwinrafael »