Author Topic: How do you view the popular vote?  (Read 5251 times)

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Offline 73109

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #70 on: November 26, 2016, 06:16:02 PM »
As for a "post fact society", that is the ultimate goal.  See, the "facts" many people cling to are simply wrong.  This is why so many were surprised with the election results.  The "facts" they believed (and many still do) are lies.  Lies used to literally brainwash the vulnerable.  We need to adjust society back to only granting the term "fact" to properly testable, quantifiable conclusions.  Facts should be very rare, but today everyone's heads are full of "facts" that simply are not real. 

Also, can not even the more conservative people on the forums—Stadler, Bosk, whomever—recognize how dangerous this thought process is?

7th, please tell me, what "facts" do people cling to that are wrong? I think you fundamentally misunderstand what a fact is. All of the "facts" before the election pointed to the assumption that Clinton would probably win the election. That was a "fact." What is also a "fact" is that Trump outperformed the polls. That's why people were shocked. No one would have said it is a fact that Trump was going to lose. You seem to be building a strawman and in so doing saying some really crazy and outright dangerous things.

I insist—what facts do people cling to that are ultimately lies put forward to brain wash them?

Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #71 on: November 26, 2016, 10:04:44 PM »
As for a "post fact society", that is the ultimate goal.  See, the "facts" many people cling to are simply wrong.  This is why so many were surprised with the election results.  The "facts" they believed (and many still do) are lies.  Lies used to literally brainwash the vulnerable.  We need to adjust society back to only granting the term "fact" to properly testable, quantifiable conclusions.  Facts should be very rare, but today everyone's heads are full of "facts" that simply are not real. 

Also, can not even the more conservative people on the forums—Stadler, Bosk, whomever—recognize how dangerous this thought process is?

7th, please tell me, what "facts" do people cling to that are wrong? I think you fundamentally misunderstand what a fact is. All of the "facts" before the election pointed to the assumption that Clinton would probably win the election. That was a "fact." What is also a "fact" is that Trump outperformed the polls. That's why people were shocked. No one would have said it is a fact that Trump was going to lose. You seem to be building a strawman and in so doing saying some really crazy and outright dangerous things.

I insist—what facts do people cling to that are ultimately lies put forward to brain wash them?

For starters, there are no "facts" related to an election or the freewill of mankind.  But okay, I'll give you a doozy to start with.  People believe that the Democrat party is the party of "peace", some would say it is a "fact".  Many people vote democrat because they believe the party is less likely to start wars.  A noble concern, but totally flawed by the numbers.  More people have died in military actions under democrat administrations than under republican administrations by a very wide margin.  While you are fact checking those numbers (and concluding that I'm right), how about the new school "facts" that smoking pot is "good for you"??  No dude, really, they've done studies man, smoking pot is like totally harmless...  Yeah, sure.  Let's move on to child rearing studies and the whole corporal punishment is equal to child abuse or how about the feminist research that categorizes all penile-vaginal sex as "rape".  If you ask those "scientists" they will call these things "fact".  Well, thank goodness, I studied physical sciences where facts are indeed rare.  For example, many would say it is a fact that the earth orbits the sun, but guess what buttercup, it actually doesn't.  The earth orbits the barycenter which is not always at the center of the sun's mass.  There are literally only a handful of actual "facts" that are universal.  Everything else is subjective.  Embrace it because realizing this leads to a much more fascinating and dynamic worldview.  If you take what society communicates, and even reaches consensus upon, as "fact" you are living within intellectual fences erected by others who don't always have your best interest at heart.

But those things don't really cut to the core of your question do they?  Here is the ultimate "fact" people on the left are clinging to that simply isn't true: That liberals are the "good" people and conservatives are all evil white racists who hate the world and everyone in it.  This one is the underlying zeitgeist that gives people on the left the smugly elite righteousness to think they have the ability to decide what are facts and what are not.  It's also the biggest flaw in the progressive agenda and the very reason why Trump won.  He didn't "outperform the polls" as you say, the polls were all wrong in the first place because the "science" they employed while polling didn't take into consideration entire populations of people.  Smart people, productive people, good and law abiding people who understand that faith in what you cannot see is vastly more powerful than the so-called facts dished into our eyes.

     
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Offline Adami

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #72 on: November 26, 2016, 10:10:49 PM »
Okay....

Pot does have positive benefits. I am 100% against drugs (not legally speaking) but pot has been scientifically proven to have health benefits. Denying that is just strange.

Also, I just asked all of the scientists in the world about them saying that all penis-vagina sex is rape, and they looked very very confused. All of them.


The rest of your post has nothing to do with facts. You stated a bunch of hyperbolic opinions based on pre-conceived ideas, based on general observations of others. Those aren't facts. Liberals don't state it's a fact that conservatives are all evil white racists. Some might say that evil white racists tend to be conservatives, which is generally true, but has nothing to do with the reverse of that correlation.

You might want to redefine what a "fact" is because very little of the "facts" your arguing against can even be considered to be facts.
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Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #73 on: November 26, 2016, 10:24:55 PM »
Okay....

Pot does have positive benefits. I am 100% against drugs (not legally speaking) but pot has been scientifically proven to have health benefits. Denying that is just strange.

Also, I just asked all of the scientists in the world about them saying that all penis-vagina sex is rape, and they looked very very confused. All of them.


The rest of your post has nothing to do with facts. You stated a bunch of hyperbolic opinions based on pre-conceived ideas, based on general observations of others. Those aren't facts. Liberals don't state it's a fact that conservatives are all evil white racists. Some might say that evil white racists tend to be conservatives, which is generally true, but has nothing to do with the reverse of that correlation.

You might want to redefine what a "fact" is because very little of the "facts" your arguing against can even be considered to be facts.


Before we take this "fact" debate any further, please familiarize yourselves with what a fact actually is:

"A fact is something that has really occurred or is actually true. The usual test for a statement of fact is verifiability—that is, whether it can be demonstrated to correspond to experience. Standard reference works are often used to check facts. Scientific facts are verified by repeatable careful observation or measurement (by experiments or other means)."

That is the Wikipedia definition, which by now should be acceptable.  Notice that non-scientific facts are checked against "experience", scientific facts are testable, observable, measurable.  Tell me, how do they determine that aspects of smoking pot are beneficial when everyone can potentially react negatively to any drug?  How about some good old anecdotal evidence.  I used to smoke pot and my life generally sucked, I quit and my life got a whole lot better.  So, given that the pot research is clearly not scientific even in it most basic hypothetical assumptions, we measure against experience.  Well, my experience tells me that the shit is really bad for people.  Also, the kids laying unbathed, in the fetal position, shaking from the "gummy bears" they've consumed in the streets of Boulder, Ashville, etc. tends to make me believe the whole movement is full of class A liberal bullshit - like much of the popular opinion "facts" I hear these days.   

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Offline Adami

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #74 on: November 26, 2016, 10:28:42 PM »
How did they determine that pot has health benefits?

Multiple clinical trials.



Also, I have no clue what children eat "gummy bears" has to do with anything. Did I miss something?

And you're angry about opinions, not facts. That was my point. It's an opinion that conservatives are XYZ, no matter how much people believe it to be true.

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Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #75 on: November 26, 2016, 10:38:42 PM »
How did they determine that pot has health benefits?

Multiple clinical trials.



Also, I have no clue what children eat "gummy bears" has to do with anything. Did I miss something?

And you're angry about opinions, not facts. That was my point. It's an opinion that conservatives are XYZ, no matter how much people believe it to be true.

Granted, yes, they are opinions, but often they are argued and even called "facts".  For any study you can produce showing benefits of pot, it is equally as easy to find scientific research that shows the negatives of pot:

http://www.webmd.com/pain-management/features/is-marijuana-safe-web?page=2

So I agree, I am talking about opinion here, but only because I was asked for facts which I do not believe exist.  The people who have presented "facts" on these subjects have been debunked already.  My concern is that even after the mass debunking of literally everything related to the progressive agenda, people are still clinging to it.  It's kinda scary really.   
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Offline Adami

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #76 on: November 26, 2016, 10:39:59 PM »
Presenting a negative effect of pot is irrelevant to whether or not it has positive effects.

It has both.
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Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #77 on: November 26, 2016, 11:00:31 PM »
Presenting a negative effect of pot is irrelevant to whether or not it has positive effects.

It has both.

Then why don't the people touting the positives mention the negatives?  Maybe they do sometimes, but by the time the information goes through the media kids are getting the message "hey scientists say it's good for you, fact man, they have studies and shit."  Society is literally telling kids it is okay, even beneficial, to do drugs.  So I'd argue that it IS relevant.  There are positive aspects of alcohol, that doesn't make it good for people
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Offline Adami

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #78 on: November 26, 2016, 11:02:35 PM »
Once again, you're upset with people, not facts. Facts are playing no role in any of things that are upsetting you. Facts do actually exist.


Also kids smoke pot because they want to get high, not because they think it's good for them. They know it's not. They also know alcohol, cigarettes and other drugs are very bad for them. They still do it. Believe it or not, but people don't do drugs because of the liberal media.
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Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #79 on: November 26, 2016, 11:18:26 PM »
Once again, you're upset with people, not facts. Facts are playing no role in any of things that are upsetting you. Facts do actually exist.


Also kids smoke pot because they want to get high, not because they think it's good for them. They know it's not. They also know alcohol, cigarettes and other drugs are very bad for them. They still do it. Believe it or not, but people don't do drugs because of the liberal media.

Couple of things.  I am not upset about anything here.  Just conversing.  And you are right.  Kids are going to do it anyway, but as a parent I would appreciate a society that didn't openly advocate it.  But, we now live in a society rife with drug abuse, pedophilia, corruption and violence of unimaginable proportions.  I notice that the conservatives want that crap dealt with, even if it means hurting a few feelings along the way, while the progressives seem to wrap themselves up in humanity's folly like a comfortable blanket.  While the world is in shock and "worrying" about the future of their children, I am sighing a bit a relief and maybe, just maybe we can turn this thing around so my children and grandchildren never have to see the horrific things I have seen.

I will argue that access to drugs, especially in the legal states, is ridiculously easy.  And I have recently been to Asheville, Boulder, Dayton, and Portland all big drug towns and all are littered with unbathed, dreadlocked, unshod and black-footed, smelly, dopesick, CHILDREN.  This isn't CNN, I have seen it with my own eyes.  Meanwhile, Hillary was out there campaigning that she is worried about our children because they are hearing Donald Trump say he thinks some woman is ugly - yet stumping for open borders in national debate!  So, which is it?  You want Hills in there keeping the lines from afghan fields to the streets of USA open, or are you okay with Trump shutting that shit down?

Quick note: I know facts exist, I never said otherwise.  I simply said I don't care about them.  They are of little use to me.
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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #80 on: November 26, 2016, 11:44:11 PM »
https://examine.com/supplements/Marijuana/

This article references a ton of studies done on the subject. To say it has no benefits is not only ignoring facts, but blatantly disregarding them. To say it has no downsides is doing the same thing.

Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #81 on: November 27, 2016, 12:21:54 AM »
https://examine.com/supplements/Marijuana/

This article references a ton of studies done on the subject. To say it has no benefits is not only ignoring facts, but blatantly disregarding them. To say it has no downsides is doing the same thing.

So, just to be clear, I never said it had no benefits.  I was arguing against the nonfactual message that pot is "good for you" as publications like this are reporting:

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/weed-good-you-20-health-benefits-consuming-marijuana-433939

Notice the subtle question "Is pot good for you?" followed up by 20 so-called "benefits".  This is what I am talking about when I say things like "media propaganda".  Denying this propaganda doesn't exist when one google search returns thousands of examples is a true denial of an actual fact.
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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #82 on: November 27, 2016, 12:28:10 AM »
Thankee-sai

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #83 on: November 27, 2016, 12:29:46 AM »
https://examine.com/supplements/Marijuana/

This article references a ton of studies done on the subject. To say it has no benefits is not only ignoring facts, but blatantly disregarding them. To say it has no downsides is doing the same thing.

So, just to be clear, I never said it had no benefits.  I was arguing against the nonfactual message that pot is "good for you" as publications like this are reporting:

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/weed-good-you-20-health-benefits-consuming-marijuana-433939

Notice the subtle question "Is pot good for you?" followed up by 20 so-called "benefits".  This is what I am talking about when I say things like "media propaganda".  Denying this propaganda doesn't exist when one google search returns thousands of examples is a true denial of an actual fact.

I don't see that article as being propaganda. The first paragraph alone points out the fact that there are arguments for both sides.

Quote
How safe is marijuana? The jury is still out. While there is research suggesting weed is bad for you, there are also studies which point to health benefit.

It's pointing out that even though there is research trying to prove that it's bad for us, there are studies showing the benefits.

Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #84 on: November 27, 2016, 12:54:02 AM »
Business insider is generally pretty sane.  Here they gloss over the negatives to get people primed for the coming investment opportunities in the pot industry:

http://www.businessinsider.com/health-benefits-of-medical-marijuana-2014-4

I'm a capitalist, but you won't catch me investing in dope marketed to the youth of the world.

Man, I hate it when I take a thread I started off topic.  But, I am interested in that core question I posed a few posts ago about the belief that one side are "good people" and the other side are not.  I recently heard an executive say these exact words related to an employment candidate who was considering taking a job in a more conservative company: "We'll just have to see what quality of people he wants to be associated with..."  I take huge exception to this kind of elitist thinking, and over the past year I have heard it daily coming from the left media.  "Quality of people" implies superiority.  Oddly enough this came from an Asian CEO who also told me (I am his company's interim CTO) that he hopes I am the only white male to work for his company because he values "diversity".  He happens to be one of the most staunch liberals I have ever met (and I am originally from San Francisco!), yet I have never heard such blatant racism.  Then to hear knuckleheads on CNN accuse my demographic of being racist simply because I support Trump.  Wow. So, this is the stuff I see around me daily.  Then I post on a forum like this and met with "what facts do you have that Hillary is corrupt?" when her corruption evidence is available to anyone via WikiLeaks.  It's just very scary.  Like invasion of the body snatchers or something has taken millions of reasonable, thoughtful people and turned them into people who apologize for terrorists and cop killers and drug dealers and corrupt politicians while wearing Che t-shirts and obliterating themselves on drugs while simultaneously insisting that everything be made safe and healthy.  This isn't liberalism or even the normal left.  What is happening is something completely different.  Frankly, I have noticed this type of thing getting worse and worse in parallel with society's growing acceptance of politically correct thinking.  From my perspective this is what is really scary in our nation.  Trump is the least of our worries.   
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Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #85 on: November 27, 2016, 12:56:11 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-wzr74d7TI

I'll accept that jab as long as you recognize that I'm the Picard in the conversation.  :biggrin:
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Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #86 on: November 27, 2016, 01:15:04 AM »
https://examine.com/supplements/Marijuana/

This article references a ton of studies done on the subject. To say it has no benefits is not only ignoring facts, but blatantly disregarding them. To say it has no downsides is doing the same thing.

So, just to be clear, I never said it had no benefits.  I was arguing against the nonfactual message that pot is "good for you" as publications like this are reporting:

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/weed-good-you-20-health-benefits-consuming-marijuana-433939

Notice the subtle question "Is pot good for you?" followed up by 20 so-called "benefits".  This is what I am talking about when I say things like "media propaganda".  Denying this propaganda doesn't exist when one google search returns thousands of examples is a true denial of an actual fact.

I don't see that article as being propaganda. The first paragraph alone points out the fact that there are arguments for both sides.

Quote
How safe is marijuana? The jury is still out. While there is research suggesting weed is bad for you, there are also studies which point to health benefit.

It's pointing out that even though there is research trying to prove that it's bad for us, there are studies showing the benefits.

I think the part you missed was that the "benefits" they list are total bullshit.  Just look at this:

19. Creativity: There was often a stigma that marijuana makes you stupid but researchers have since found that the stereotype was based on correlational evidence, instead of cause and effect. In fact, scientists have found that those who smoke tend to be more creative.

Boy, that sounds wonderful doesn't it?  Smoking pot tends to make everyone using it more creative!  Yeah, um, no.  I think it is obvious that it completely depends on the person.  I have seen people get stoned and do masterful work, I have also seen people get stoned and be completely useless.  That is probably my biggest problem with "studies" like these.  They tend to paint with a very wide brush, yet they are fooling around with information related to people's well-being.

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Offline Adami

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #87 on: November 27, 2016, 01:19:24 AM »
Vicodin is an effective pain killer.

The fact that it had no effect on me whatsoever doesn't disprove that.

Or in other words, Kadir beneath Mo Moteh.

Yea, I memory alphad that one.

I think I'm bailing out of this one now. The fun is just gone. Maybe if it comes back.
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Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #88 on: November 27, 2016, 01:26:11 AM »
Remember you're talking to normies, Sven. (Yes, I know that's not your real name)

I don't condone him, in case it's not obvious.

You condoned me when I was helping you with your homework that time.  :loser:
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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #89 on: November 27, 2016, 01:28:05 AM »
https://examine.com/supplements/Marijuana/

This article references a ton of studies done on the subject. To say it has no benefits is not only ignoring facts, but blatantly disregarding them. To say it has no downsides is doing the same thing.

So, just to be clear, I never said it had no benefits.  I was arguing against the nonfactual message that pot is "good for you" as publications like this are reporting:

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/weed-good-you-20-health-benefits-consuming-marijuana-433939

Notice the subtle question "Is pot good for you?" followed up by 20 so-called "benefits".  This is what I am talking about when I say things like "media propaganda".  Denying this propaganda doesn't exist when one google search returns thousands of examples is a true denial of an actual fact.

I don't see that article as being propaganda. The first paragraph alone points out the fact that there are arguments for both sides.

Quote
How safe is marijuana? The jury is still out. While there is research suggesting weed is bad for you, there are also studies which point to health benefit.

It's pointing out that even though there is research trying to prove that it's bad for us, there are studies showing the benefits.

I think the part you missed was that the "benefits" they list are total bullshit.  Just look at this:

19. Creativity: There was often a stigma that marijuana makes you stupid but researchers have since found that the stereotype was based on correlational evidence, instead of cause and effect. In fact, scientists have found that those who smoke tend to be more creative.

Boy, that sounds wonderful doesn't it?  Smoking pot tends to make everyone using it more creative!  Yeah, um, no.  I think it is obvious that it completely depends on the person.  I have seen people get stoned and do masterful work, I have also seen people get stoned and be completely useless.  That is probably my biggest problem with "studies" like these.  They tend to paint with a very wide brush, yet they are fooling around with information related to people's well-being.

How is that total bullshit? If that is indeed a benefit for some people, like you actually said, then it's not bullshit. It's not saying everyone becomes a Renaissance painter. It links to an article which refers to a study that dispels the myth that smoking automatically makes one stupid.

Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #90 on: November 27, 2016, 01:39:24 AM »
https://examine.com/supplements/Marijuana/

This article references a ton of studies done on the subject. To say it has no benefits is not only ignoring facts, but blatantly disregarding them. To say it has no downsides is doing the same thing.

So, just to be clear, I never said it had no benefits.  I was arguing against the nonfactual message that pot is "good for you" as publications like this are reporting:

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/weed-good-you-20-health-benefits-consuming-marijuana-433939

Notice the subtle question "Is pot good for you?" followed up by 20 so-called "benefits".  This is what I am talking about when I say things like "media propaganda".  Denying this propaganda doesn't exist when one google search returns thousands of examples is a true denial of an actual fact.

I don't see that article as being propaganda. The first paragraph alone points out the fact that there are arguments for both sides.

Quote
How safe is marijuana? The jury is still out. While there is research suggesting weed is bad for you, there are also studies which point to health benefit.

It's pointing out that even though there is research trying to prove that it's bad for us, there are studies showing the benefits.

I think the part you missed was that the "benefits" they list are total bullshit.  Just look at this:

19. Creativity: There was often a stigma that marijuana makes you stupid but researchers have since found that the stereotype was based on correlational evidence, instead of cause and effect. In fact, scientists have found that those who smoke tend to be more creative.

Boy, that sounds wonderful doesn't it?  Smoking pot tends to make everyone using it more creative!  Yeah, um, no.  I think it is obvious that it completely depends on the person.  I have seen people get stoned and do masterful work, I have also seen people get stoned and be completely useless.  That is probably my biggest problem with "studies" like these.  They tend to paint with a very wide brush, yet they are fooling around with information related to people's well-being.

How is that total bullshit? If that is indeed a benefit for some people, like you actually said, then it's not bullshit. It's not saying everyone becomes a Renaissance painter. It links to an article which refers to a study that dispels the myth that smoking automatically makes one stupid.

I can't stay up all night explaining how the pseudoscience of psychology assesses creativity, how I think it's definitely bullshit, because I'd probably just get called a science denier for saying it.  In fact, I love science, but it has been watered down to the point where even pot being an enhancement drug is considered "fact".  It's okay, you can believe pot is good for you, I can believe it isn't.  You find value in the studies that show its benefits, I find value in the studies that show its problems.  As I said above, I fall back on my own experiences and as a former pot smoker I have nothing good to report.  As a parent, I just wish society would stop looking for the next escapist high to push on kids and start looking to improve the life and environment we have in reality.
 
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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #91 on: November 27, 2016, 01:48:05 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-wzr74d7TI

I'll accept that jab as long as you recognize that I'm the Picard in the conversation.  :biggrin:

I had a long response typed up, but it came off as being preachy. I'll summarize it.

No, you're not Picard in this situation. He spent the entire episode that was referenced trying to bridge a gap in understanding and communication. I dig the fact that you're willing to stick to your guns, but some of the language you've been using is inflammatory. While I'm sure that you pride yourself for being anti-PC, you've managed to put most of the people that you're trying to have a conversation with on the defensive. It's not conducive to discussion.

Something that does confuse me is your willingness to co-op the Libertarian vote as conservative in the beginning of this thread, but you're so quick to demonize them when one of their core-tenets runs contrary to your beliefs. Yes, this is in reference to marijuana legalization.
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Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #92 on: November 27, 2016, 02:01:31 AM »
Vicodin is an effective pain killer.

The fact that it had no effect on me whatsoever doesn't disprove that.


Drugs affect people differently.  That is actually a scientific fact.  Many factors go into it ranging from body temperature to age, to gender, to genetics.  So when a publication promotes a drug, prescription or recreational, they are being irresponsible.  Look at this quote from High Times:

Interestingly, the study also concluded, “daily cannabis consumption does not significantly impair executive functions among young users, not even in users with age of onset before 15 years old.”

Wow, get some kids stoned and see if it causes them executive function deficiency!  Yeah, that sounds like a great idea.

Seriously, even the big pharma legal catchalls like "results may vary" and "please talk to your doctor about..." and "people with (X) should not take (Y) when (Z)" all show that people don't really know what the fuck is going to happen when someone takes drugs.  That other study I linked said pot helps depression and anxiety disorders!  Yet there are reputable studies that claim pot smoking *causes* depression and anxiety disorders.  Who are we to believe in the age of instant information from unchecked sources?  High times or WebMD?
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Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #93 on: November 27, 2016, 02:22:43 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-wzr74d7TI

I'll accept that jab as long as you recognize that I'm the Picard in the conversation.  :biggrin:

I had a long response typed up, but it came off as being preachy. I'll summarize it.

No, you're not Picard in this situation. He spent the entire episode that was referenced trying to bridge a gap in understanding and communication. I dig the fact that you're willing to stick to your guns, but some of the language you've been using is inflammatory. While I'm sure that you pride yourself for being anti-PC, you've managed to put most of the people that you're trying to have a conversation with on the defensive. It's not conducive to discussion.

Something that does confuse me is your willingness to co-op the Libertarian vote as conservative in the beginning of this thread, but you're so quick to demonize them when one of their core-tenets runs contrary to your beliefs. Yes, this is in reference to marijuana legalization.

Couple of things.  Thanks for the thoughtful response.  I have been trying to bridge a gap in understanding and communication.  Maybe I am not succeeding much, but I think it took Picard some time to figure out how to communicate with Darmok too. :-)

I don't think I attacked legalization.  I think I was more attacking Hillary's focus on non-issues while children lay in our streets fucked up on ultra concentrated dope manufactured to look like candy.  I grew out of recreationals decades ago, but I respect people's right and need to catch a buzz now and then so I am not a big fan of criminalization either.  It just really disturbs me to see so many young people fucked up on dope.

As for inflammatory remarks, being antiPC, and conducive to discussion.  I have found that with many these days the only way to be conducive with discussion is to toe the progressive line and filter all thoughts and speech through the appropriate PC filters.  I prefer to just stay true to myself and express things as I really see them.  I hope that doesn't offend anyone, but then again, these days just being a white male conservative is offensive to many so what can I do besides stick to my principles and offer those principles to others as food for thought?     
"Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #94 on: November 27, 2016, 04:23:31 AM »
Vicodin is an effective pain killer.

The fact that it had no effect on me whatsoever doesn't disprove that.


It used to have an effect on me. Sadly, that is no longer the case. Oxycodone hasn't worked either. I feel like I need to get the real stuff to feel that high again.  :xbones

Offline Adami

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #95 on: November 27, 2016, 04:42:17 PM »
So apparently Trump tweeted that he actually won the popular vote as well, but it only looks like he lost it due to millions of illegal votes.
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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #96 on: November 27, 2016, 04:46:32 PM »
You mean the votes were rigged or they were votes by illegal immigrants?   :biggrin:

Offline Adami

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #97 on: November 27, 2016, 04:48:46 PM »
You mean the votes were rigged or they were votes by illegal immigrants?   :biggrin:

Dunno.

"In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally."

Going to be an interesting four years.
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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #98 on: November 27, 2016, 05:04:54 PM »
There isn't enough popcorn to eat as we lay in waiting.

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #99 on: November 28, 2016, 08:22:20 AM »
The fact that an institution like the NYT can be blatantly dismissed as lying, left-wing propaganda in favor of intuition, experience, and "common sense" is genuinely terrifying, as is the assumption that we no longer need to fact check because the facts are bow lies.


Any chance we can stop using "terrifying" as a synonym for "I don't like it"?    I've been terrified maybe twice, three times in my life, and NOTHING - not the week before when I would have bet my car that Hillary would have won, not the night of when Trump was declared the presumptive winner, not when Steve Bannon was named to the cabinet - even comes REMOTELY close to that feeling. 

I get it; some of us don't like the outcome, and some of us have worries now that certain things you might consider "progress" might be undone.   I'm understanding and respectful of that.  But this complete and utter usurping of the word "TERRIFYING" is getting to be a little much.   

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #100 on: November 28, 2016, 08:25:47 AM »
But this complete and utter usurping of the word is getting to be a little much.

It's terrifying, if I'm being honest.

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #101 on: November 28, 2016, 08:33:09 AM »

Also, can not even the more conservative people on the forums—Stadler, Bosk, whomever—recognize how dangerous this thought process is?


What am I supposed to recognize?  I don't take it anywhere to 7th's apparent level, but I don't trust any one particular news source, and I CERTAINLY don't trust - without some corroboration, context, and nuance - any one candidate. 

I certainly think - without question, and this goes for both sides - that people are far more apt to arrive at the conclusion first, then find the information that supports it rather than amass information from competing sources and arrive at a suitable conclusion. 

Again, I don't like to use "conspiracy" and "lying" without some specific context, but I do absolutely think that we've become more free with the substitution of "substantiated opinion" in for "hard fact" and to our detriment.  We've also become more willing to accept simplistic solutions to complex and perhaps even unsolvable problems.   Poverty?  MINIMUM WAGE!   Immigration?  WALL!  We've also become accustomed to substituting artificial metrics in for proof of efficacy:   ACA?  MORE PEOPLE INSURED! (With no qualitative analysis whatsoever).   Election Integrity?  POPULAR VOTE! (With no understanding that it is in no way the measure of what the outcome should be; it's akin to saying "Well, Genesis "We Can't Dance" is 72 minutes, and Self-titled is 42 minutes, therefore WCD is objectively better!")

Offline Adami

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #102 on: November 28, 2016, 10:26:25 AM »
The fact that an institution like the NYT can be blatantly dismissed as lying, left-wing propaganda in favor of intuition, experience, and "common sense" is genuinely terrifying, as is the assumption that we no longer need to fact check because the facts are bow lies.


Any chance we can stop using "terrifying" as a synonym for "I don't like it"?    I've been terrified maybe twice, three times in my life, and NOTHING - not the week before when I would have bet my car that Hillary would have won, not the night of when Trump was declared the presumptive winner, not when Steve Bannon was named to the cabinet - even comes REMOTELY close to that feeling. 

I get it; some of us don't like the outcome, and some of us have worries now that certain things you might consider "progress" might be undone.   I'm understanding and respectful of that.  But this complete and utter usurping of the word "TERRIFYING" is getting to be a little much.


I say this with all due respect, but one possible reason you don't see any of it as terrifying is because as a straight, white, well enough off male, none of those terrifying things have any impact on you.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 10:40:29 AM by Adami »
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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #103 on: November 28, 2016, 11:19:19 AM »
The fact that an institution like the NYT can be blatantly dismissed as lying, left-wing propaganda in favor of intuition, experience, and "common sense" is genuinely terrifying, as is the assumption that we no longer need to fact check because the facts are bow lies.


Any chance we can stop using "terrifying" as a synonym for "I don't like it"?    I've been terrified maybe twice, three times in my life, and NOTHING - not the week before when I would have bet my car that Hillary would have won, not the night of when Trump was declared the presumptive winner, not when Steve Bannon was named to the cabinet - even comes REMOTELY close to that feeling. 

I get it; some of us don't like the outcome, and some of us have worries now that certain things you might consider "progress" might be undone.   I'm understanding and respectful of that.  But this complete and utter usurping of the word "TERRIFYING" is getting to be a little much.


I say this with all due respect, but one possible reason you don't see any of it as terrifying is because as a straight, white, well enough off male, none of those terrifying things have any impact on you.

But isn't that a racist, classist, heterophobic view?  Straight white well-off conservative males have plenty to be afraid of in our society.  Especially now that the left has effectively painted that demographic as "bad people" who "should not exist". 
"Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin

Offline Adami

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #104 on: November 28, 2016, 11:24:12 AM »
The fact that an institution like the NYT can be blatantly dismissed as lying, left-wing propaganda in favor of intuition, experience, and "common sense" is genuinely terrifying, as is the assumption that we no longer need to fact check because the facts are bow lies.


Any chance we can stop using "terrifying" as a synonym for "I don't like it"?    I've been terrified maybe twice, three times in my life, and NOTHING - not the week before when I would have bet my car that Hillary would have won, not the night of when Trump was declared the presumptive winner, not when Steve Bannon was named to the cabinet - even comes REMOTELY close to that feeling. 

I get it; some of us don't like the outcome, and some of us have worries now that certain things you might consider "progress" might be undone.   I'm understanding and respectful of that.  But this complete and utter usurping of the word "TERRIFYING" is getting to be a little much.


I say this with all due respect, but one possible reason you don't see any of it as terrifying is because as a straight, white, well enough off male, none of those terrifying things have any impact on you.

But isn't that a racist, classist, heterophobic view?

No.

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