Author Topic: How do you view the popular vote?  (Read 4765 times)

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Offline 7th

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How do you view the popular vote?
« on: November 23, 2016, 02:11:41 PM »
As of right now the popular vote is showing Clinton with approx. 2M more votes than Trump, but should we weigh in Stein and Johnson's votes as well?  By pure popular vote numbers, conservative candidates got more votes than democrat candidates.  By a margin of about 2M votes when you combine Johnson and Trump.  Clinton got more votes than any other individual, sure, but if we look at the popular vote by ideology, the conservatives clearly came out ahead.  Is the media failing to point this out, or does it just not matter because "Clinton Wins Popular Vote" is a better headline for controversy and sensationalism?  Would people be more accepting of the outcome if they were aware that more conservative votes were cast than democrat votes? 

Another observation, and this one is a bit more concerning, but do the people pushing for Hillary to call for recounts really want to open up that can of worms considering the number of alleged illegal immigrants and dead people who fraudulently voted for her.  If she goes up against Trump on this she's just going to come out looking like more of a crook even if she wins.  My opinion is to let it rest.  Trump has put forth a seemingly sane and viable plan, he's soft on many of the social issues we're all concerned about, and he's appearing to try to work with everyone and he's even bringing in dems as insiders.  Can't we just give the old orange dude a chance before we go and rehash the election?  What's your opinion?   

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Offline pogoowner

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2016, 02:18:17 PM »
Why would we start lumping Stein or Johnson's votes in with Clinton or Trump's?

Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2016, 02:25:32 PM »
Why would we start lumping Stein or Johnson's votes in with Clinton or Trump's?

To show the outcome based on ideology in order to educate the people upset about Hillary's loss that her ideology/party lost despite her winning the popular vote.  The mainstream media would have us believe that the *majority* of voters wanted a democrat in office, but this isn't true by the numbers.  I am not advocating actually merging the votes, I am just saying that when they are tallied by ideology, the cons won it. 
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2016, 02:28:10 PM »
Another observation, and this one is a bit more concerning, but do the people pushing for Hillary to call for recounts really want to open up that can of worms considering the number of alleged illegal immigrants and dead people who fraudulently voted for her.
Is there any evidence of this? You throw it out there like it's a fact.

Offline lordxizor

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2016, 02:29:25 PM »
Why would we start lumping Stein or Johnson's votes in with Clinton or Trump's?

To show the outcome based on ideology in order to educate the people upset about Hillary's loss that her ideology/party lost despite her winning the popular vote.  The mainstream media would have us believe that the *majority* of voters wanted a democrat in office, but this isn't true by the numbers.  I am not advocating actually merging the votes, I am just saying that when they are tallied by ideology, the cons won it. 
I think a lot of people who would have otherwise voted Democrat voted for Johnson as the primary third party in this election. It's not fair to assume that all of his votes would have gone to Trump had it been a two person election.

Offline Skeever

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2016, 02:36:42 PM »
Finding the OP really hard to follow, quite a few strange assumptions. What is this supposed "ideology popular vote"? Johnson+Trump vs Stein+Clinton? That makes no sense, for a lot of reasons, but what about all the other third party candidates? Furthermore, what's the point of using any sort of popular vote as a gauge of what ideology people on the whole subscribe to when half the eligible population don't even vote?

Offline bosk1

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2016, 02:38:08 PM »
How do you view the popular vote?

As largely irrelevant.

Finding the OP really hard to follow, quite a few strange assumptions.

Yeah, I pretty much agree.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2016, 02:41:29 PM »
The national total of the popular vote is, as bosky said, largely irrelevant, since it isn't a national election.  What matters is the vote in each state, which then determines the electoral votes for those states.

Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.

Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2016, 03:08:23 PM »
Another observation, and this one is a bit more concerning, but do the people pushing for Hillary to call for recounts really want to open up that can of worms considering the number of alleged illegal immigrants and dead people who fraudulently voted for her.
Is there any evidence of this? You throw it out there like it's a fact.

Voter fraud is a fact, the question is how often and on what scale does it occur?  Also, note the word "alleged".  The interesting phenomenon here is that the liberal media claims there is very little voter fraud, and the conservative media claims it happens all the time.  Given that the mainstream liberal media has been outed as a progressive propaganda machine, therefore losing any shred of credibility of journalistic integrity they once had, I have to go with the cons on this one even though they probably cheat like mofos too.



 
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Offline kingshmegland

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2016, 03:11:35 PM »
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'. - Bob Newhart

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Offline antigoon

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2016, 03:13:03 PM »
lol

Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2016, 03:13:17 PM »
How do you view the popular vote?

As largely irrelevant.

Finding the OP really hard to follow, quite a few strange assumptions.

Yeah, I pretty much agree.

To be more clear, my train of thought started when I heard Michael Moore claim to young, impressionable followers that "The Majority of Americans Voted Democrat!" referring to the popular vote.  I am showing that his statement is false by the numbers.  More votes were cast for conservatives.  No assumptions at all. 
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2016, 03:49:56 PM »
As of right now the popular vote is showing Clinton with approx. 2M more votes than Trump, but should we weigh in Stein and Johnson's votes as well?  By pure popular vote numbers, conservative candidates got more votes than democrat candidates.  By a margin of about 2M votes when you combine Johnson and Trump.  Clinton got more votes than any other individual, sure, but if we look at the popular vote by ideology, the conservatives clearly came out ahead.  Is the media failing to point this out, or does it just not matter because "Clinton Wins Popular Vote" is a better headline for controversy and sensationalism?  Would people be more accepting of the outcome if they were aware that more conservative votes were cast than democrat votes?   

I'm a civil libertarian. You're assuming that I'm a conservative. You would be wrong. Mainstream Libertarians often are presented as being mostly conservative and people make the mistake of using their views as a blanket that covers the entirety of all Libertarians. While, in fact, there are many different movements and viewpoints that fall under the term. The wikipedia page for Libertarianism (while somewhat vague in some areas) is an ok place to learn the basics of some of the different views.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism


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Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2016, 04:04:07 PM »
As of right now the popular vote is showing Clinton with approx. 2M more votes than Trump, but should we weigh in Stein and Johnson's votes as well?  By pure popular vote numbers, conservative candidates got more votes than democrat candidates.  By a margin of about 2M votes when you combine Johnson and Trump.  Clinton got more votes than any other individual, sure, but if we look at the popular vote by ideology, the conservatives clearly came out ahead.  Is the media failing to point this out, or does it just not matter because "Clinton Wins Popular Vote" is a better headline for controversy and sensationalism?  Would people be more accepting of the outcome if they were aware that more conservative votes were cast than democrat votes?   

I'm a civil libertarian. You're assuming that I'm a conservative. You would be wrong. Mainstream Libertarians often are presented as being mostly conservative and people make the mistake of using their views as a blanket that covers the entirety of all Libertarians. While, in fact, there are many different movements and viewpoints that fall under the term. The wikipedia page for Libertarianism (while somewhat vague in some areas) is an ok place to learn the basics of some of the different views.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

I am speaking of ballots cast, not the ideology of the person casting the vote.  By the numbers, more conservative ballots were cast than democrat.  The "majority" of voters went right.  Other than me posting it here, I have never heard this fact discussed or commented on so I was curious about how others may perceive the outcome of the popular vote. 
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2016, 05:05:42 PM »
As of right now the popular vote is showing Clinton with approx. 2M more votes than Trump, but should we weigh in Stein and Johnson's votes as well?  By pure popular vote numbers, conservative candidates got more votes than democrat candidates.  By a margin of about 2M votes when you combine Johnson and Trump.  Clinton got more votes than any other individual, sure, but if we look at the popular vote by ideology, the conservatives clearly came out ahead.  Is the media failing to point this out, or does it just not matter because "Clinton Wins Popular Vote" is a better headline for controversy and sensationalism?  Would people be more accepting of the outcome if they were aware that more conservative votes were cast than democrat votes?   

I'm a civil libertarian. You're assuming that I'm a conservative. You would be wrong. Mainstream Libertarians often are presented as being mostly conservative and people make the mistake of using their views as a blanket that covers the entirety of all Libertarians. While, in fact, there are many different movements and viewpoints that fall under the term. The wikipedia page for Libertarianism (while somewhat vague in some areas) is an ok place to learn the basics of some of the different views.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

I am speaking of ballots cast, not the ideology of the person casting the vote.  By the numbers, more conservative ballots were cast than democrat.  The "majority" of voters went right.  Other than me posting it here, I have never heard this fact discussed or commented on so I was curious about how others may perceive the outcome of the popular vote.

You do realize that you're contradicting yourself, right? The ideology is very much in play. If I had voted it would have been for Johnson/Weld. Hold a gun to my head and tell me that my only choices were either Hillary or Trump, and I'm pulling the lever for Hillary every time.

You're making the erroneous claim that votes cast for Johnson are all conservative. There's no basis for that, and you're wrong to make that assumption.
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Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2016, 05:28:08 PM »
As of right now the popular vote is showing Clinton with approx. 2M more votes than Trump, but should we weigh in Stein and Johnson's votes as well?  By pure popular vote numbers, conservative candidates got more votes than democrat candidates.  By a margin of about 2M votes when you combine Johnson and Trump.  Clinton got more votes than any other individual, sure, but if we look at the popular vote by ideology, the conservatives clearly came out ahead.  Is the media failing to point this out, or does it just not matter because "Clinton Wins Popular Vote" is a better headline for controversy and sensationalism?  Would people be more accepting of the outcome if they were aware that more conservative votes were cast than democrat votes?   

I'm a civil libertarian. You're assuming that I'm a conservative. You would be wrong. Mainstream Libertarians often are presented as being mostly conservative and people make the mistake of using their views as a blanket that covers the entirety of all Libertarians. While, in fact, there are many different movements and viewpoints that fall under the term. The wikipedia page for Libertarianism (while somewhat vague in some areas) is an ok place to learn the basics of some of the different views.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

I am speaking of ballots cast, not the ideology of the person casting the vote.  By the numbers, more conservative ballots were cast than democrat.  The "majority" of voters went right.  Other than me posting it here, I have never heard this fact discussed or commented on so I was curious about how others may perceive the outcome of the popular vote.

You do realize that you're contradicting yourself, right? The ideology is very much in play. If I had voted it would have been for Johnson/Weld. Hold a gun to my head and tell me that my only choices were either Hillary or Trump, and I'm pulling the lever for Hillary every time.

You're making the erroneous claim that votes cast for Johnson are all conservative. There's no basis for that, and you're wrong to make that assumption.

How is the fact that more votes were cast for conservatives than democrats erroneous?  What I said is plain and simple math.  No contradiction, no assumptions, no nothing.  Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on the outcome that take into account that more people voted against democrats than for democrats.
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2016, 05:53:15 PM »
As of right now the popular vote is showing Clinton with approx. 2M more votes than Trump, but should we weigh in Stein and Johnson's votes as well?  By pure popular vote numbers, conservative candidates got more votes than democrat candidates.  By a margin of about 2M votes when you combine Johnson and Trump.  Clinton got more votes than any other individual, sure, but if we look at the popular vote by ideology, the conservatives clearly came out ahead.  Is the media failing to point this out, or does it just not matter because "Clinton Wins Popular Vote" is a better headline for controversy and sensationalism?  Would people be more accepting of the outcome if they were aware that more conservative votes were cast than democrat votes?   

I'm a civil libertarian. You're assuming that I'm a conservative. You would be wrong. Mainstream Libertarians often are presented as being mostly conservative and people make the mistake of using their views as a blanket that covers the entirety of all Libertarians. While, in fact, there are many different movements and viewpoints that fall under the term. The wikipedia page for Libertarianism (while somewhat vague in some areas) is an ok place to learn the basics of some of the different views.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

I am speaking of ballots cast, not the ideology of the person casting the vote.  By the numbers, more conservative ballots were cast than democrat.  The "majority" of voters went right.  Other than me posting it here, I have never heard this fact discussed or commented on so I was curious about how others may perceive the outcome of the popular vote.

You do realize that you're contradicting yourself, right? The ideology is very much in play. If I had voted it would have been for Johnson/Weld. Hold a gun to my head and tell me that my only choices were either Hillary or Trump, and I'm pulling the lever for Hillary every time.

You're making the erroneous claim that votes cast for Johnson are all conservative. There's no basis for that, and you're wrong to make that assumption.

How is the fact that more votes were cast for conservatives than democrats erroneous?  What I said is plain and simple math.  No contradiction, no assumptions, no nothing.  Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on the outcome that take into account that more people voted against democrats than for democrats.

Because you're calling the Libertarian vote conservative. It isn't. Your entire premise is based on that and it's wrong.

If those votes were conservative then they would have voted for Trump. They didn't, so they aren't. I can't state in a simpler way than that.
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Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2016, 06:13:18 PM »
As of right now the popular vote is showing Clinton with approx. 2M more votes than Trump, but should we weigh in Stein and Johnson's votes as well?  By pure popular vote numbers, conservative candidates got more votes than democrat candidates.  By a margin of about 2M votes when you combine Johnson and Trump.  Clinton got more votes than any other individual, sure, but if we look at the popular vote by ideology, the conservatives clearly came out ahead.  Is the media failing to point this out, or does it just not matter because "Clinton Wins Popular Vote" is a better headline for controversy and sensationalism?  Would people be more accepting of the outcome if they were aware that more conservative votes were cast than democrat votes?   

I'm a civil libertarian. You're assuming that I'm a conservative. You would be wrong. Mainstream Libertarians often are presented as being mostly conservative and people make the mistake of using their views as a blanket that covers the entirety of all Libertarians. While, in fact, there are many different movements and viewpoints that fall under the term. The wikipedia page for Libertarianism (while somewhat vague in some areas) is an ok place to learn the basics of some of the different views.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

I am speaking of ballots cast, not the ideology of the person casting the vote.  By the numbers, more conservative ballots were cast than democrat.  The "majority" of voters went right.  Other than me posting it here, I have never heard this fact discussed or commented on so I was curious about how others may perceive the outcome of the popular vote.

You do realize that you're contradicting yourself, right? The ideology is very much in play. If I had voted it would have been for Johnson/Weld. Hold a gun to my head and tell me that my only choices were either Hillary or Trump, and I'm pulling the lever for Hillary every time.

You're making the erroneous claim that votes cast for Johnson are all conservative. There's no basis for that, and you're wrong to make that assumption.

How is the fact that more votes were cast for conservatives than democrats erroneous?  What I said is plain and simple math.  No contradiction, no assumptions, no nothing.  Just wondering if anyone had thoughts on the outcome that take into account that more people voted against democrats than for democrats.

Because you're calling the Libertarian vote conservative. It isn't. Your entire premise is based on that and it's wrong.

If those votes were conservative then they would have voted for Trump. They didn't, so they aren't. I can't state in a simpler way than that.

I'd agree 100% if the whole left/right libertarian lines were clear, and I do realize Johnson is considered a L-Libertarian, though he was billed as the conservative alternative to Trump.  But your point is taken and it has merit so in the interest of intellectual honesty I will adjust my claim: The majority of votes cast were not for Clinton.  Which makes me wonder did she really win the popular vote?  Is the popular vote won by the individual with the most votes or by an individual with the majority of the votes?  According to Wikipedia, well, it's kinda unclear...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_vote_(representative_democracy)

By that flimsy definition, I am not sure Hills even really won the popular vote.  She did not get the highest percentage of votes, but she did get more votes than any other individual.   
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Offline Adami

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2016, 06:18:13 PM »
No one got a 51% majority popular vote. But Hilllary got more votes than trump.
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Offline TAC

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2016, 06:23:05 PM »
She did not get the highest percentage of votes, but she did get more votes than any other individual.   

Awesome. Now what is the point of this thread?
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2016, 06:52:56 PM »
She did not get the highest percentage of votes, but she did get more votes than any other individual.   

Awesome. Now what is the point of this thread?

I was curious what people think about the popular vote outcome, given the realization that she did not win a majority of votes with the actual majority going to non-democrats (thank you PowerSlave for the distinction).  I personally think it reflects a rejection of what has become secular progressivism in US politics.  But, I'd wager that if you go interview people on college campuses with the question "did a majority of voters choose Hillary?" the answer would be "Yes, of course, she won the popular vote!"  The protestor smashing windows and lighting fires may not be doing so if they hadn't been told their candidate effectively won the people's vote but is being railroaded by the electoral college.  Heck even Barbara Boxxer is introducing legislation to abolish the electoral college.  You think she'd be doing that if the tables were turned and Hillary won the states but lost the popular?  So actually there are a lot of points to this thread in relation to how the nation is dealing with the election outcome.  Even today people are calling for recounts and suggesting Hillary is the "people's choice", and maybe she was, but I'm just asking the question: "is that really the case when we look at *all* the election results?" 
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Offline TAC

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2016, 07:01:31 PM »
OK. I wasn't asking to be a wise guy but I was confused.

Winning the Popular Vote, to me, means that she got more votes than any of other candidates, not all of them aggregated together. But I see what you're saying.

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline lordxizor

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2016, 07:12:20 PM »
Another observation, and this one is a bit more concerning, but do the people pushing for Hillary to call for recounts really want to open up that can of worms considering the number of alleged illegal immigrants and dead people who fraudulently voted for her.
Is there any evidence of this? You throw it out there like it's a fact.

Voter fraud is a fact, the question is how often and on what scale does it occur?  Also, note the word "alleged".  The interesting phenomenon here is that the liberal media claims there is very little voter fraud, and the conservative media claims it happens all the time.  Given that the mainstream liberal media has been outed as a progressive propaganda machine, therefore losing any shred of credibility of journalistic integrity they once had, I have to go with the cons on this one even though they probably cheat like mofos too.



 
As far as I know, it has nothing to do with journalistic bias toward the right and the left and everything to do with actual investigations performed by some government entity. They repeatedly find that known cases of voter fraud are so rare that they're basically non-existent.

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2016, 07:12:52 PM »
Considering clintons lead in popular vote comes from essentially one state, California, where she beat Trump by 3.7 million votes.....I don't see the relevance of a popular vote winner. One state can skew the appearance in either direction.
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Offline Adami

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2016, 07:15:02 PM »
She did not get the highest percentage of votes, but she did get more votes than any other individual.   

Awesome. Now what is the point of this thread?

I was curious what people think about the popular vote outcome, given the realization that she did not win a majority of votes with the actual majority going to non-democrats (thank you PowerSlave for the distinction)

You could also say a majority of the votes went to non-republicans.
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Offline TAC

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2016, 07:18:37 PM »
She did not get the highest percentage of votes, but she did get more votes than any other individual.   

Awesome. Now what is the point of this thread?

I was curious what people think about the popular vote outcome, given the realization that she did not win a majority of votes with the actual majority going to non-democrats (thank you PowerSlave for the distinction)

You could also say a majority of the votes went to non-republicans.
And non Libertarians. ;D
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
Winger Theater Forums................or WTF.  ;D

Offline Adami

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2016, 07:21:25 PM »
She did not get the highest percentage of votes, but she did get more votes than any other individual.   

Awesome. Now what is the point of this thread?

I was curious what people think about the popular vote outcome, given the realization that she did not win a majority of votes with the actual majority going to non-democrats (thank you PowerSlave for the distinction)

You could also say a majority of the votes went to non-republicans.
And non Libertarians. ;D

So clearly no one won the election. I say we scrap it, and start election v. 2. Each party gets to pick one nominee really quickly, they have 3 debates over the course of 2 weeks and then we all vote. End of story.
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2016, 07:31:04 PM »
Considering clintons lead in popular vote comes from essentially one state, California, where she beat Trump by 3.7 million votes.....I don't see the relevance of a popular vote winner. One state can skew the appearance in either direction.

That's a valid point, but who's to say that a state shouldn't work that way, either. Traditionally (in the state that I live in, Ohio), most of the counties vote Republican, and a few of the counties that have large population centers vote Democrat. I'm assuming that it's usually the same way across most of the country as well. Would it be fair to limit counties to only accounting for a certain amount of votes towards who wins the state? This basically being the electoral college on the state level instead of the national level. The reason that I pose the question in this way is to put it on a smaller scale, so that's it's easier to comprehend as a whole. Hopefully I don't come off sounding like an idiot...

I'm on the fence about this. I've seen people put forth compelling arguments from each side of the issue.

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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #28 on: November 23, 2016, 07:32:08 PM »
She did not get the highest percentage of votes, but she did get more votes than any other individual.   

Awesome. Now what is the point of this thread?

I was curious what people think about the popular vote outcome, given the realization that she did not win a majority of votes with the actual majority going to non-democrats (thank you PowerSlave for the distinction)

You could also say a majority of the votes went to non-republicans.
And non Libertarians. ;D

So clearly no one won the election. I say we scrap it, and start election v. 2. Each party gets to pick one nominee really quickly, they have 3 debates over the course of 2 weeks and then we all vote. End of story.

I'm ok with this!
Thankee-sai

Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #29 on: November 23, 2016, 08:20:38 PM »
Considering clintons lead in popular vote comes from essentially one state, California, where she beat Trump by 3.7 million votes.....I don't see the relevance of a popular vote winner. One state can skew the appearance in either direction.

That's a valid point, but who's to say that a state shouldn't work that way, either. Traditionally (in the state that I live in, Ohio), most of the counties vote Republican, and a few of the counties that have large population centers vote Democrat. I'm assuming that it's usually the same way across most of the country as well. Would it be fair to limit counties to only accounting for a certain amount of votes towards who wins the state? This basically being the electoral college on the state level instead of the national level. The reason that I pose the question in this way is to put it on a smaller scale, so that's it's easier to comprehend as a whole. Hopefully I don't come off sounding like an idiot...

I'm on the fence about this. I've seen people put forth compelling arguments from each side of the issue.

That's a pretty good idea really, but it may already be done that way by how they assign precincts to electorates.  I don't know but it is a cool concept.  I don't really dig how it is now where many people's votes simply get washed out by other people's votes upstream, but I do believe we need the electoral college.  You know what is interesting about those population centers?  When you overlay a crime map on top of the red/blue vote distribution map they match up almost perfectly, in other words, the population centers that supported Hillary are where most of the nation's crooks are.  Go figure.  This is why the electoral college must remain: given a voting pool of two wolves and a sheep which is a perfect democracy of three voters, how can there be a fair vote for what's for dinner?
"Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin

Offline Skeever

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2016, 09:23:57 PM »
That's a pretty good idea really, but it may already be done that way by how they assign precincts to electorates.  I don't know but it is a cool concept.  I don't really dig how it is now where many people's votes simply get washed out by other people's votes upstream, but I do believe we need the electoral college.  You know what is interesting about those population centers?  When you overlay a crime map on top of the red/blue vote distribution map they match up almost perfectly, in other words, the population centers that supported Hillary are where most of the nation's crooks are.  Go figure.  This is why the electoral college must remain: given a voting pool of two wolves and a sheep which is a perfect democracy of three voters, how can there be a fair vote for what's for dinner?

Pretty incendiary statement to make without evidence. Care to share your source? I've seen similar claims on FB, which are totally bunk, because the map does not take into account crime per capita, and instead just tries to scare people into fearing the crime-ridden liberal cities. Source here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/11/16/no-the-viral-image-of-2016-election-results-and-2013-crime-rates-is-not-real/

According to this report, the top 5 states  for violent crime per capita are:

5. Louisiana
4. Tennessee
3. Nevada
2. New Mexico
1. Alaska

So, 3/5 red states. If you bump the comparison up to the top 10, red states are still in the lead. Not trying to insist that the opposite of your statement is true, just trying to demonstrate how easily one can manipulate facts for the sake of fear mongering.

That said, I still am unclear on what your original point in your OP even was.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2016, 09:32:48 PM by Skeever »

Offline Adami

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2016, 09:30:14 PM »
There is generally more crime in large populated cities. A lot of those large populated cities also tend to vote democrat.

It's unlikely these things have anything to do with one another outside of the fact that each is based on there being a large population.
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Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #32 on: November 23, 2016, 10:09:58 PM »
That's a pretty good idea really, but it may already be done that way by how they assign precincts to electorates.  I don't know but it is a cool concept.  I don't really dig how it is now where many people's votes simply get washed out by other people's votes upstream, but I do believe we need the electoral college.  You know what is interesting about those population centers?  When you overlay a crime map on top of the red/blue vote distribution map they match up almost perfectly, in other words, the population centers that supported Hillary are where most of the nation's crooks are.  Go figure.  This is why the electoral college must remain: given a voting pool of two wolves and a sheep which is a perfect democracy of three voters, how can there be a fair vote for what's for dinner?

Pretty incendiary statement to make without evidence. Care to share your source? I've seen similar claims on FB, which are totally bunk, because the map does not take into account crime per capita, and instead just tries to scare people into fearing the crime-ridden liberal cities. Source here: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2016/11/16/no-the-viral-image-of-2016-election-results-and-2013-crime-rates-is-not-real/

According to this report, the top 5 states  for violent crime per capita are:

5. Louisiana
4. Tennessee
3. Nevada
2. New Mexico
1. Alaska

So, 3/5 red states. If you bump the comparison up to the top 10, red states are still in the lead. Not trying to insist that the opposite of your statement is true, just trying to demonstrate how easily one can manipulate facts for the sake of fear mongering.

That said, I still am unclear on what your original point in your OP even was.

I agree it is easy to manipulate data, but it is common knowledge that major metro areas have more crime and it is also common knowledge that those areas tend to vote democrat.  We don't need snopes or the Washington post to verify common knowledge.  Heck, even in their "debunking" it appears the crime map and election map are indeed correlated or at least loosely elastic based on population.  Good old anecdotal evidence coupled with common sense tells me that I don't need to lock my car on my uncle's farm in the mountains but I damn well better in St Louis.

Once again, my original point was to explore the popular vote with the realization that more people voted against Hillary than for her.  That is all, I wasn't passing judgement either way.  I can accept she won the popular vote, but I do question if that has ever been properly defined.  I also question the media for running with it, potentially riling civil unrest, when I can't even find a clear definition of what the popular vote is. 

This isn't politics, it is math.  Right now the math shows that Hillary did not get a majority of the votes, yet I believe a large section of society believes she did due to fake news and the continued progressive propaganda from news sources who were basically all debunked on Nov 8th.  Honestly, I don't how the people of the CNNS and MSNBCs and NYTs of the world can even show their faces.  They are supposed to be experts, yet they clearly know very little about the nation and its people.  Fox was the only network to acknowledge Trump as a contender but even they did it with a "when pigs fly" smug attitude.  Just sayin, don't ask me to cite these bozos as "evidence" when they clearly are grossly flawed and incompetent in their assessment of the available information. 
"Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin

Offline Adami

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #33 on: November 23, 2016, 10:12:33 PM »
No one thinks Hillary got the most votes. People think Hillary got the most votes of the two main candidates.

She did.
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Offline 7th

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Re: How do you view the popular vote?
« Reply #34 on: November 23, 2016, 10:25:55 PM »
No one thinks Hillary got the most votes. People think Hillary got the most votes of the two main candidates.

She did.

Indeed, but I have heard major news sources and pundits say "The *majority* of voters chose to be with her" and similar sentiments.  I have no problem that she is acknowledged for winning the popular vote, I am just concerned that people are being spoonfed the delusion that the majority of voters picked her.  They didn't.
"Political correctness is fascism pretending to be manners" - George Carlin