Author Topic: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!  (Read 148567 times)

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Offline Jinx

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1015 on: January 19, 2017, 12:48:24 PM »
So it IS ES?

Little fact - the first DT song that I fell in love with and got me hooked!

Offline bosk1

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1016 on: January 19, 2017, 12:50:02 PM »
It could be.  It is one of 3 or 4 songs that fit the criteria.
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Offline Jinx

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1017 on: January 19, 2017, 12:52:18 PM »
Awwww bosk you meany :(

Out of interest, seeing as though you seem to disregard Octavarium songs as a choice, are we looking at 6DOIT and SC as albums being able to fit criteria too? I'm all confused about it tbh

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1018 on: January 19, 2017, 01:17:07 PM »
*popsintoseewhatsnew*

Bosk doing his bosk thing.  :rollin

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Offline jsbru

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1019 on: January 19, 2017, 01:43:46 PM »
It could be.  It is one of 3 or 4 songs that fit the criteria.

Well, it's not within 25 minutes of the end of ToT (it's something like 38), so I must be misunderstanding the criteria or relying on some additional false assumption.

Other than that, it seems to fit the criteria perfectly, though.  I had it ranked #2 after TDEN before this whole renewed discussion of alphabetized albums.  I eliminated both because neither are within 25 minutes of the end of the album, despite both albums being close to the end of DT's alphabetized list of albums.
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Offline jsbru

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1020 on: January 19, 2017, 02:11:43 PM »
Also, I double-checked.  WMP's default sorting goes:

1. Band name (alphabetically)
2. Album name (alphabetically, excluding leading articles like "A" and "The")
3. Track order on album

So "The Astonishing" would be sorted under "A".  And ADTOE would be sorted under "D".

One curious thing...I don't know what DT12 would show up as.  I don't have that one on any of my computers.  If the album name shows up as blank, does it sort it at the beginning of the list or the end?  I suppose I could be wrong about it being implied that there is only one song from DT12.  But I think it is unlikely anyways for two other reasons.  One, bosk said that there's only one mega-epic, so if IT is the opener, than there's no ACOS, which I kind of think is the encore.  Two, it's somewhat popular, but not necessarily a "crowd pleaser."  And they haven't necessarily played it "a lot."
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Offline ToT-147

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1021 on: January 19, 2017, 02:32:37 PM »
Ok, after these new incomes, I think we can erase for good the "25 minutes" criteria.. This, as I said before, was never a true hint, since it was never written down by Bosk... it was rather deducted from the fact that he was listening to the song exactly 25 minutes before listening Epica.. But I checked the earlier pages of this thread and realized that there are two more things we (at least the ones who are now debating this stuff) overlooked from the start:

1- Coincidentally or not, Bosk said, before the "I am listening to Epica now", that the duration of the opener is less than 25 minutes. So maybe that unconsciously led us to reaffirm that the "25 minutes" hint was real..

2- And this is hilarious, but user TheAtliator wrote this comment hours before Bosk said that he was listening to the song: <<My guess for opener is Endless Sacrifice. Just imagine a DT concert opening with this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZPRdN5XCpI>>.. So he could have easily listened to ES by clicking on the link, as actually the same user guessed right after, whether joking or not..


PS: yeah, I'm unemployed and have nothing more to do.. ;D
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Offline jsbru

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1022 on: January 19, 2017, 02:41:29 PM »
The sad thing is that I'm not unemployed.  But I am a bit obsessive about solving puzzles.  Sometimes that helps with my work.  I have spent too much time trying to guess this though!  :D

Anyhow, Bosk said he was not skipping tracks.  So I can't figure it out.  Maybe WMP just doesn't sort the way we think it's sorting.  I'm just going to throw in the towel.
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1023 on: January 19, 2017, 03:01:10 PM »
Based on the information you have, ES absolutely fits the criteria for the Epica clue.  Not sure how it doesn't.  TOT is clearly near the end of the alphabet.  A couple of other albums are as well.  Octavarium clearly is not.  I have no idea why this concept is so difficult to grasp.

The fact that you're so persistent in saying ES fits the criteria makes me think you either didn't see the post where I calculated the times, or that the Epica hint means something different than what we thought.
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Offline ToT-147

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1024 on: January 19, 2017, 03:03:39 PM »
The sad thing is that I'm not unemployed.  But I am a bit obsessive about solving puzzles.  Sometimes that helps with my work.  I have spent too much time trying to guess this though!  :D

Anyhow, Bosk said he was not skipping tracks.  So I can't figure it out.  Maybe WMP just doesn't sort the way we think it's sorting.  I'm just going to throw in the towel.

 :lol

Yeah, I'm here too because I like puzzles, I was kidding...

About the WMP thing, I checked and mine leaves "The Astonishing" at the start of the list as well (and it also excludes the "A" in "ADToE"), so I think that might be a definitive fact, since I have never changed the setting of the program, and neither Bosk has according to what he said..

And I do have DT12.. It simply comes after ADToE and before FII (oddly enough, the album doesn't show its actual cover but only a black image, like the black album itself)..

So, reorganizing my list once more after this last hint (I assume it must be the last since within almost ten days we'll know not only this song but the entire setlist), I also have only two songs (and I can't see how they can be "3 or 4", again, except he doesn't have TOT and SC on his computer), and they're the same you pointed out earlier.. Although I don't see how the ToT's song is a "crowd pleaser"... on the other hand, we might have the winner in SC..
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Offline jsbru

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1025 on: January 19, 2017, 03:37:13 PM »
Bosk seems to really like Epica, though, but yet he only has 2 of their albums on his work computer.  And no ELP.

It's entirely possible that he just doesn't have a huge collection on there, and that he listens to music in other ways at work more frequently (Spotify, I-tunes, etc.).

If that's the case, it's at least plausible that the last album is MP2:SFAM.  There's two and if you stretch it, 3 songs at the end of that album that could be a good fit.

But didn't I just say I was going to throw in the towel?  :facepalm: :D
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Offline ToT-147

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1026 on: January 19, 2017, 03:57:19 PM »
Yeah, that's also an option.. I thought about it before.. If we assume he doesn't have every DT album, then the other song that should come around again is the one from 8V..

But the songs on SFaM are more likely somehow to me.. After all, he said "interesting" after I brought to the table those three new songs: two that would be absolutely discarded now (Scarred and TGD) and that one from SFaM..

But didn't I just say I was going to throw in the towel?  :facepalm: :D

Actually I was just thinking this is kind of a cool game.. You realized that when you find yourself enjoying more trying to figure out a song before a bunch of hints rather than knowing which song actually is.. :lol
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1027 on: January 19, 2017, 04:06:13 PM »
The only things that throw me off this conclusion are
1) bosk seemed really intent on saying that ES fit the Epica clue somehow
& 2) bosk's favourite DT album (circa 2014) was SDOIT, so I'm not sure why he wouldn't have that album on his work computer
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Offline Jinx

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1028 on: January 19, 2017, 05:44:06 PM »
So, reorganizing my list once more after this last hint (I assume it must be the last since within almost ten days we'll know not only this song but the entire setlist), I also have only two songs (and I can't see how they can be "3 or 4", again, except he doesn't have TOT and SC on his computer), and they're the same you pointed out earlier.. Although I don't see how the ToT's song is a "crowd pleaser"... on the other hand, we might have the winner in SC..

This is the problem I had - I cant find 3 or 4 that fit exactly. Some may fit some criteria, some may fit others.

Anyway, is the song from SC we are guessing at TDEN then? If we have brought it down to those two, ES or TDEN then I am torn to decide which I would rather see anyway!  :metal

Offline ToT-147

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1029 on: January 19, 2017, 05:49:48 PM »
The only things that throw me off this conclusion are
1) bosk seemed really intent on saying that ES fit the Epica clue somehow
& 2) bosk's favourite DT album (circa 2014) was SDOIT, so I'm not sure why he wouldn't have that album on his work computer

Well, I discarded SDoIT because the end of the album (and almost half of it) is the title track alone, and he said the song was under 25 minutes, thus discarding -at least for the opener- precisely only that song.. TGD can't be either, because if that's his favorite album, then he should have both albums and not just the first..

Man, I wish they play SOMETHING new from either SDoIT or ToT!..

But you're right.. Is like he wants us to believe is that one, when probably is something else, like SC's or 8V's songs..

Anyway, is the song from SC we are guessing at TDEN then?

Yes... And as for me, I'd say that's the most plausible option.. I remember Bosk was emphatic in saying the song was definitely a monster track..
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Offline sfam2112

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1030 on: January 19, 2017, 05:56:41 PM »
They're opening with Karn Evil 9  :biggrin:


...or not  :facepalm: :corn
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Offline Evai

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1031 on: January 19, 2017, 06:03:10 PM »
How about they start off with a big RIFF. And then the drums come in like boomdabang. And then the bass player starts like BOOM BOOM BOOM. And then the singer is like Woaaaaah. And then a big piece of chocolate cake appears on the screen behind them, but you can't see because the keyboard player has started going bleepidybloop widdle wow wow
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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1032 on: January 19, 2017, 06:05:37 PM »
-looks around thread-



















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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1033 on: January 19, 2017, 06:12:30 PM »
Guys... what if...















...they're opening with an Epica cover?
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Offline Jinx

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1034 on: January 19, 2017, 06:24:40 PM »
How about they start off with a big RIFF. And then the drums come in like boomdabang. And then the bass player starts like BOOM BOOM BOOM. And then the singer is like Woaaaaah. And then a big piece of chocolate cake appears on the screen behind them, but you can't see because the keyboard player has started going bleepidybloop widdle wow wow

Go on about the chocolate cake tho  :corn

Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1035 on: January 19, 2017, 06:28:38 PM »
Guys, I was doing a little more digging around & I found something that might be interesting.

Take a look at how WMP sorts the tracks on my copy of SDOIT:


It sorts each disc like they're both being played simultaneously.

This means that if bosk has a version of Six Degrees that has the title track as one singular track, then WMP would sort his songs like this:
- The Glass Prison
- Six Degrees Of Inner Turbulence
- Blind Faith
- Misunderstood
- The Great Debate
- Disappear

It's obviously not going to be Misunderstood or Disappear, since neither have been played by MM, but if bosk doesn't have TOT or SC on his work computer, that means the only option would be The Great Debate.  :eek






(if we're right about the Epica hint that is...)
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Offline ToT-147

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1036 on: January 19, 2017, 06:36:14 PM »
Yeah, that could be too.. Also, it'd fit with him saying "interesting" to those three songs, among which was Conflict at Ground Zero..

But then again... crowd pleaser?.. :-\
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1037 on: January 19, 2017, 06:37:12 PM »
:dunno:
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Offline jsbru

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1038 on: January 19, 2017, 06:48:50 PM »
Yeah, TGD can't be considered a "crowd pleaser."  MM has played it, but not since 2011, and before that 2004.  So that's not all that "frequently since it's release" either.

Still, that's an interesting development.

Speaking of great debates, maybe in addition to looking up Bosk's favorite album, someone should look up his position on the Great Debate of the "Is 6DOIT 8 tracks or just one" thread.  MM has played both TTTSTA and WIMH, and both have been played pretty frequently.  Either would be a little bit unexpected as an opener, sort-of fan favorites (it's a popular album in general), and they're parts of a monster track, but it's kind of a stretch to call them monsters by themselves.  Not great options to be sure, but a stretch to fit something viable into the Epica framework.
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1039 on: January 19, 2017, 06:52:56 PM »
I was actually just looking through the archives to see if either one had been opened with. So far neither, but About To Crash has been opened with, which is another SDOIT segment that's been played with MM.

Anyway, I'll look into it.

Edit: Found it:
But that said, your arguments miss the point.  The band has weighed in and told us whether it is one song or two, so any arguments to the contrary really miss the point.  The fact is, the band wrote it as one song, intended it to be considered one song, and presented it that way live on the tour to represent the song as it was intended.  And they have been clear about that from the start.  The fact that they played only part 1 on a few occasions does not really change anything.  They did the same with parts of ACOS and Six Degrees as well, but that does not magically transform those separate parts into separate songs. 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2017, 07:03:49 PM by IDontNotDoThings »
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Offline Jinx

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1040 on: January 19, 2017, 07:53:13 PM »
Weird how your WMP has put both sets of songs like that. Mine just has Disc One then Disc 2 seperately :/

I think we've narrowed it down to two now - Endless Sacrifice or The Dark Eternal Night.

Incidentally about ES, was watching a clip from 2011 - it is so good live and since they let JR loose with the Zen Riffer on it its got even better. Am hoping for it in the set regardless!

Offline jsbru

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1041 on: January 19, 2017, 08:16:09 PM »
ES is also #33 on their all-time most-played list (despite being released midway through their career), it's long enough to be "monster," and I think fans like it.  If Bosk says it's not ruled out, then it's not ruled out, but I ruled out TDEN for the same reason...so they should both probably be on the table.

FF and TDOE still have to be on the table, though, because they actually are within the 25 minutes, the album is in the back half of their catalog alphabetically, and they do fit all other criteria.

TSCO is a stretch as far as "monster" track goes, but it does have sort of an epic feel to it (monster in the emotional sense?), so it also has to be at least borderline considered.  Especially since it was on the recent Astonishing encore, meaning that it's already fresh in the band's minds.  If it's not the opener, I'd put money on it appearing somewhere in the setlist.  Same with As I Am.

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Offline bosk1

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1042 on: January 19, 2017, 08:25:09 PM »
I don't remember if I said it had been played "a lot," but what I meant was, considering how many tour cycles they've had since its release, it seems to have had a good share of plays.

I also don't specifically remember saying the song is under 25 minutes.  But I'll clarify:  It is.
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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1043 on: January 19, 2017, 08:28:11 PM »
I don't remember if I said it had been played "a lot," but what I meant was, considering how many tour cycles they've had since its release, it seems to have had a good share of plays.

Then that rules out Finally Free.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1044 on: January 19, 2017, 08:36:52 PM »
As fun as this is, I'm actually kinda surprised you guys haven't instead tried to focus on clues trying to figure out what the FII song is.  Or what the instrumental is.  But oh well.  Since we're focused on others, I'm not gonna give those away.

Also, the ADTOE song is one that many people will definitely be happy with.
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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1045 on: January 19, 2017, 08:39:00 PM »
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Offline jsbru

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1046 on: January 19, 2017, 08:43:05 PM »
As fun as this is, I'm actually kinda surprised you guys haven't instead tried to focus on clues trying to figure out what the FII song is.  Or what the instrumental is.  But oh well.  Since we're focused on others, I'm not gonna give those away.

Well, there haven't been many clues about all of those above, other than there's a FII track on the setlist, and there's also an instrumental.

Quote
Also, the ADTOE song is one that many people will definitely be happy with.

But now we're really starting to narrow down the possibilities.
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Offline jsbru

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1047 on: January 19, 2017, 08:53:47 PM »
I guess as to the other songs in Set 1/encore, Bosk said there's 2-4 songs from TA, and 6-7 songs from the rest of the catalog (in the first set).

1 is either STR or TBP (and probably no other on this album, because it was described as "the" track)
1 is on FII
1 is on ADTOE (and probably no other on this album, because it was described as "the" track)
The remaining 3-4 are not on BC&SL, DT12, ADTOE, I&W, or TA

Also (and these can all overlap with each other, and mostly with the above):
1 is the opener, a "monster" track that MM has played before (so can't be the DT12 one)
2 are "monster" tracks that MM had to transcribe
1 is the instrumental
1 is a mega-epic
1 is fitting for a drum solo
1 is possibly a good place for an extended guitar solo

Let me know if I'm forgetting something.
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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1048 on: January 19, 2017, 09:01:07 PM »
I guess as to the other songs in Set 1/encore, Bosk said there's 2-4 songs from TA, and 6-7 songs from the rest of the catalog (in the first set).

1 is either STR or TBP (and probably no other on this album, because it was described as "the" track)
1 is on FII
1 is on ADTOE (and probably no other on this album, because it was described as "the" track)
The remaining 3-4 are not on BC&SL, DT12, ADTOE, I&W, or TA

Also (and these can all overlap with each other, and mostly with the above):
1 is the opener, a "monster" track that MM has played before (so can't be the DT12 one)
2 are "monster" tracks that MM had to transcribe
1 is the instrumental
1 is a mega-epic
1 is fitting for a drum solo
1 is possibly a good place for an extended guitar solo

Let me know if I'm forgetting something.

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Offline IDontNotDoThings

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Re: DT to play the whole I&W in full next year!
« Reply #1049 on: January 19, 2017, 09:14:42 PM »
Let's go through my list:

- I don't think many people would enjoy FFH as the ADTOE song (not that it was really a monster song anyway)
- Outcry could've only been represented in 2 tours, but was only represented in 1 of them, so it hasn't really had a good share of plays based on how many tour cycles it's had
- Breaking All Illusions wouldn't be nearly surprising enough to be mentioned so intentionally vaguely by bosk as "the ADTOE song"
- Illumination Theory is unlikely, since it has only been in 1 of 1 possible tour cycles  :lol
- Same applies to AFTR, & it isn't a monster track either
- Caught In A Web & The Spirit Carries On could apply to the "surprising number of plays for how many tour cycles it's had" (especially the latter), but they're by no means epic monster tracks.
- Scarred & TDOE haven't really been represented in DT's setlists that much, only recently has they gotten that many live plays
- The Great Debate isn't a crowd-pleaser, & from what I could find, there aren't any versions of SDOIT that include the title song as one track
- Finally Free would be my answer at this point, but the era between 2009-2013 where it was hardly played at all is giving me the opposite impression, in fact, there's only been five years where the song was played that often: 2000, 2004, 2007, 2008 & 2014.

tl;dr I'm confused :dunno:
ドリームシアターはあまり好きではありませんが、ペンと紙を持っていたので、なんてこった。