Any dad's or mom's out there, what is your view on your child's success?

[Blind Faythe]

16 for me is not such a good age here. It's honestly becoming very frustrating because my mom and dad expect me to go to a good college, get a good job, and earn a lot of money and become successful. I understand their pure heart in trying to help me, but it ends up frustrating me a lot. When that usually happens, I can satisfy it partially by listening to some music, but recently, their nagging has been becoming worse and worse. And my period isn't helping me either. I've been having real mood swings recently and it's been causing tension between me and my family.

Do you mom or dad's expect your children to be the best of the best? Is that a good mentality to have against your children? What would you do to cope with it? Thank you.

[Hyperplex]

My kids are young, so the expectations we have aren't at the same level as yours yet due to age. However, what we have told my son, who is in kindergarten now, is that we want him to do the best that he can. He is a very smart, very intuitive, caring little guy, and we know what he is capable of accomplishing, but we also are careful not to overdo it. If he were obviously not trying, we might say something to him, but I've never been of the belief that my children must be the best of the best. I just want them to know they are loved, do the best they can, and be happy. I hope, when they come to your age level, I can maintain that mindset and continue to be a support system, instead of a slingshot trying to launch them where I want them to go, instead of where their trajectory is taking them.

I think parents who expect too much from their kids contribute not only to burnout and anguish, but to the lowering of their kids' self esteem. Personally, I have my own severe self esteem problems, but my parents were supportive of me and not controlling or overbearing. If they had been obsessed with my accomplishments, I think I would have suffered multiple emotional and mental breakdowns growing up. I believe children are to be guided and supported, not browbeaten and nagged to death, held to standards that are impossible to achieve and expected to simply cope and perform like machines instead of humans trying to grow and learn.

[Dr. DTVT]

I'm not home right now, but as someone who has taught college / university for 13 years in the US, I have some thoughts I would like to pass along.  I am just posting to remind myself to follow up in a few hours.

[Adami]

I was fortunate to have a really cool mom. She wanted me to be successful, but only in a way that made me truly happy. She also realized that for that to happen, I did likely have to go to college and do decently well. But perfection was never an expectation, nor was money placed over personal happiness.

With that kind of upbringing I got two Master's degrees and am currently getting a Doctorate. So it's a good mix of expectations, but not ones that turn your kids off to following their dreams.


I plan, however, to convince my kids that anything less than perfection would lead to my and their mother's death.

[Stadler]

I'm 49 with a 15 year old daughter.  I'm moderately successful, and had a Dad that was strict, demanding, but not unreasonably so.   I went to public high school, state college, state law school, and a private business school.   My kid is now at arguably one of the five best private schools in the country.

Having said that, it depends on what they're asking and how you're interpreting what they're asking.   I obviously don't know your parents, so I can't comment specifically, but a couple things come to mind in your post:

- You're using really generic terms, and I don't know what your complaint is.  If your parents ONLY consider Ivy League to be "good schools", you've probably got some room to negotiate.  If they just want you to have a college degree and you want to play Call of Duty all day, they've got a point.

- You have to separate those things that are unique to you and those things that aren't.  No one has parents like you (except for your siblings) so that is probably unique to you.  But there are 160 million people that have to deal with monthly fluctuations in mood health and stamina.   So you have to incorporate that and learn to deal with that on your own.

For me, I demand little from my daughter other than she a) continually try new things (I don't care what they are, within reason), b) finish what she starts (or at least follow through long enough to complete the phase she's in) c) never give less than 100% and d) never make excuses.   I've instilled in her the idea that we rarely regret the things we do, we most often regret the things we DON'T do.   

I think all of these things -especially the last one - are really boiled down to "be honest with yourself".  Be honest with what you want, how to get it and how YOU can get it.  If you try and fail, that's fine, accept that failure and move on.  Either say that's not for you and do something else, or say "I'm not going to let that happen to me again" and try again. 

I say this with peace and love, but I think your post is far more about YOU than it is your parents. 

[Phoenix87x]

I don't currently have children, but I think about parenting very often. 

My child's life is theirs to live and I am not going to impose my expectations on them. Ultimately, I want them to be an independent adult who can support themselves and live the life they want to live.

[Dr. DTVT]

A few things to keep in mind:

Don't let pressure from the outside get to you.  You don't know what you want to do at your age.  I didn't know I wanted to be a college professor until I was 23.  It's not bad if you have an idea of what you might want to do, but don't tie yourself to it.  Allow yourself to become who you want to be organically.

As long as you are not causing harm to yourself or others, do what makes you happy.

If you are doing your best in school, tell your parents that.  If you want to do better in school, ask your teachers how you can improve and ask your parents to give you the help you require (tutoring, helping you structure and schedule your time, or whatever you need to be as successful as you want to be).

You don't have to be the absolute best.  The world doesn't work if everyone has a Ph.D.  Most of the jobs that a functioning society needs are jobs that require some training or a bachelor's degree.  The important thing is to find out what you need to be happy, and in all honesty college students are still looking for that answer, so you shouldn't beat yourself up for not know the answer either.  I'm not sure I even know for myself, and I'm almost 38.

There are more good schools than people realize.  While most people would agree that the well known good schools are good, I can tell you that you can get a great education at most regionally accredited schools.  Two of the schools I have taught at I can almost guarantee everyone here never heard of if not for my mentioning them, matter of fact my first professorship was at a school I never heard of until I applied for the position there.  People might thumb their nose up at the scores of incoming students, and I wouldn't argue that most of those students would struggle to get into top 50 colleges.  However, the professors and teachers at that school are highly intelligent and very skilled, and turn out students who are succeeding in the real world and getting accepted to highly regarded graduate programs.  I would also point out that over half of the American graduate students I met in grad school were like me went to smaller schools; furthermore, many Nobel Prize winners in Chemistry (my field) got their bachelor's from small schools that nobody outside of the town they are in know about.  You don't have to go to an Ivy League school, Stanford, Berkeley, or large state school to get a good education.  As long as you can get into a college, you'll be fine if that is what you want to do.

The important thing is to have honest conversations with your parents, your teachers, your friends, and most importantly - yourself.

[Stadler]

A few things to keep in mind:

Don't let pressure from the outside get to you.  You don't know what you want to do at your age.  I didn't know I wanted to be a college professor until I was 23.  It's not bad if you have an idea of what you might want to do, but don't tie yourself to it.  Allow yourself to become who you want to be organically.

As long as you are not causing harm to yourself or others, do what makes you happy.

If you are doing your best in school, tell your parents that.  If you want to do better in school, ask your teachers how you can improve and ask your parents to give you the help you require (tutoring, helping you structure and schedule your time, or whatever you need to be as successful as you want to be).

You don't have to be the absolute best.  The world doesn't work if everyone has a Ph.D.  Most of the jobs that a functioning society needs are jobs that require some training or a bachelor's degree.  The important thing is to find out what you need to be happy, and in all honesty college students are still looking for that answer, so you shouldn't beat yourself up for not know the answer either.  I'm not sure I even know for myself, and I'm almost 38.

There are more good schools than people realize.  While most people would agree that the well known good schools are good, I can tell you that you can get a great education at most regionally accredited schools.  Two of the schools I have taught at I can almost guarantee everyone here never heard of if not for my mentioning them, matter of fact my first professorship was at a school I never heard of until I applied for the position there.  People might thumb their nose up at the scores of incoming students, and I wouldn't argue that most of those students would struggle to get into top 50 colleges.  However, the professors and teachers at that school are highly intelligent and very skilled, and turn out students who are succeeding in the real world and getting accepted to highly regarded graduate programs.  I would also point out that over half of the American graduate students I met in grad school were like me went to smaller schools; furthermore, many Nobel Prize winners in Chemistry (my field) got their bachelor's from small schools that nobody outside of the town they are in know about.  You don't have to go to an Ivy League school, Stanford, Berkeley, or large state school to get a good education.  As long as you can get into a college, you'll be fine if that is what you want to do.

The important thing is to have honest conversations with your parents, your teachers, your friends, and most importantly - yourself.

I think the last sentence is the most important.   

I don't want to be contrarian, but some of this - "do what makes you happy!" - is okay, ONCE YOU GET TO THAT POINT WHERE YOU CAN SUPPORT YOURSELF.

I have an 18-year-old step-daughter who, from the age of 16, was "I can't wait until I'm 18 and I can DO WHAT I WANT!".   And - nicely, not as her "dad" - I jokingly told her "just you wait.  Your 8-year-old brother "does what he wants when he wants".  That's not being an adult.  Being an adult is knowing what you HAVE to do, and finding a way to do it without being told/led by the hand."    She's still figuring that out.  She watches Netflix into the wee hours, then has trouble getting up for school (she's in beauty school).   

Pushing your kids, teaching them that "delayed gratification" isn't the worst thing in the world, teaching them - and this is important - WHAT IT TAKES to be the absolute best, and making an ADULT decision as to whether the effort is worth the reward TO YOU is going to serve you well. 

I make no bones about pushing my daughter, but we talk, and we discuss, and, in some cases, negotiate.   She frets over "not knowing what it is she wants to do", and I asked her, well, what's on the list?   And ALL the possibilities at this point probably require some form of college.  So I told her, okay, go to school, go to college and figure it out when you get there.  Hell, I didn't REALLY know what I wanted to do until I was almost 30.   30!  And that's too late for some things (football star, teen idol) but it worked for me, and I am successful enough to afford the things I need and a fair number of things I WANT. 

[cramx3]

Not a parent so I can only comment from my own experience growing up, but my parents were very hard on me to go to a good school.  My mom still talks about this as the toughest time in my life for my relationship with my parents.  I was always good at school, but I was not big on extracurricular activities.  My parents were very hard on my to apply to many schools and be more active and get good SAT scores.  I scored a 1320 (when it was out of 1600). That wasn't good enough for them, they forced me to take classes to do better (I did slightly worse or about the same on all my exams after that first one, because I didn't want to put that effort in and felt forced).   I applied and got into the school where I wanted and I think it shut my parents up finally cause it was a top 25 school for computer engineering (which I did graduate from/with).  Looking back at it, I think my parents were still a bit over the top about how they were hard on me, but at the same time, I respect them for pushing me and it got me where I needed and wanted to be.  My parent's didn't have that push for my younger brother/sister because 6 years later I think they were just exhausted from dealing with my older sister and me.  My younger brother and sister have not been as successful in school/career (still early to say for sure, but compared to my age) and is it because my parents didn't push them?  Who can say, there's way more involved than just that.

[millahh]

It's interesting to read all of this....my mom actively worked to keep me from having to be challenged by anything growing up, wanted me to go to a moderately good school (mostly for appearances sake), then be moderately successful, and live in a PA exurb.  Me having become ambitious, seeking out challenges (and transformative ones, such as getting my PhD), living in/around NYC and kicking ass at my job (being recognized as a leader in a Fortune 500 company) have caused me to fall out of favor or be branded as "lucky".

[cramx3]

It's interesting to read all of this....my mom actively worked to keep me from having to be challenged by anything growing up, wanted me to go to a moderately good school (mostly for appearances sake), then be moderately successful, and live in a PA exurb.  Me having become ambitious, seeking out challenges (and transformative ones, such as getting my PhD), living in/around NYC and kicking ass at my job (being recognized as a leader in a Fortune 500 company) have caused me to fall out of favor or be branded as "lucky".

Sorry to hear that, that sounds really sad to me.  Parent's should be proud of their children. 

[millahh]

It's interesting to read all of this....my mom actively worked to keep me from having to be challenged by anything growing up, wanted me to go to a moderately good school (mostly for appearances sake), then be moderately successful, and live in a PA exurb.  Me having become ambitious, seeking out challenges (and transformative ones, such as getting my PhD), living in/around NYC and kicking ass at my job (being recognized as a leader in a Fortune 500 company) have caused me to fall out of favor or be branded as "lucky".

Sorry to hear that, that sounds really sad to me.  Parent's should be proud of their children.

Well, my mom is a small-town narcissist.  And yeah, it is sad.  But I have thoroughly rejected her worldview.

Parents pushing a little too hard is better than parents throwing water on their kids' ambitions.

[Hyperplex]

Parents pushing a little too hard is better than parents throwing water on their kids' ambitions.

My goal is to strike the balance: realistic expectations, endless encouragement, patience, understanding, love, and guidance.

[Dr. DTVT]

That's crazy millah.  I got some "are you too good for us now" shit from aunts and uncles, but my parents are proud of what I've accomplished, even now while I am going through a career change and unemployment.

[Hyperplex]

My mother-in-law is a queen of belittling her children. For both of her daughters, she punished them if they didn't bring home As, insulted and berated them if they didn't measure up to her own standards (which were always at least 1 step above the grade brought home), but bragged through the ceiling about all of their accomplishments to her friends. Appearances, all appearances.

AND now that both of her daughters have degrees, one has a masters, both have successful jobs, husbands, and families – she takes credit for everything. It was her encouragement (hah!) and forward parenting that made her daughters succeed. It was all her, else no one would have ever succeeded. (This is her mentality about MANY things, not just her children. To hear her talk about herself, you'd think the Earth would spin off its axis and hurtle into the Sun if she was never born.) I still don't undertstand how a parent can treat his or her children that way. If I ever made my kids feel the way my mother-in-law makes her daughters feel, I think I'd stab myself in the neck.

[millahh]

Parents pushing a little too hard is better than parents throwing water on their kids' ambitions.

My goal is to strike the balance: realistic expectations, endless encouragement, patience, understanding, love, and guidance.

Good man.  What you're doing is making your parenting about them, not about you.

I think this all ties back to the point that was made about open, honest discussion.  As long as parents aren't using kids as a projection screen for their own issues, they should be willing to listen to the kid about their feelings, values, ambitions, desires.  Sometimes a parent may push in a certain direction because it's the default, and the kid has never voiced anything different.  So, talk a bout it!

[Hyperplex]

I just want my kids to know that above everything else, they are my kids and I love them. If they are C-students, I love them. If they are geniuses, I love them. If they fail, I love them. If they do their best and genuinely try, I can't ask anything more of them. Responding with anger and consequences in that situation only breeds resentment and fear. Succeeding and trying out of fear of punishment is not really success; it's survival. Living and growing is about more than just surviving.

[Podaar]

I have five children ranging from 35 through 22 (the youngest is actually 21 for a couple more weeks) and I've never had any expectations for any of them. Hopes and dreams for them, yes, but I see expectations as completely poisonous to parent/child relationships. As a result, Mrs. P and I do not pin our self worth on any of the kids accomplishments nor do we take any credit for it nor blame for their struggles.

Mrs. P and I view our role as simply to offer encouragement and advise (if requested) and financial support if necessary. We also try to live a good life as an example.

We're probably this way because our parents pinned so much of their self esteem on our successes or failures. As a result, neither one of us has a good relationship with our parents and we didn't want that for our kids.

This is what has worked for us (so far). Your results may vary.

[Hyperplex]

As my friends and contemporaries have begun nuturing their own families, I am noticing a lot of them, myself included, taking pains to not repeat the mistakes their own parents made. It elicits a feeling of hope, because it shows we can learn from our histories, instead of repeating them.

[Podaar]

Indeed, Hyperplex.

Both Mrs. P and I were regularly and severely physically punished as children. My stepdad broke my thumb when I was about thirteen trying to get me to confess to something I hadn't done and Mrs. P got hit in the face with an iron by her father when she was 16. Yes, I said an iron (luckily it was cold).

I've never raised a hand in anger at any of my kids as a result. Not even a smack on the bottom...I always found a severe look and a boring lecture/reason session to be way more effective.

[Stadler]

To Podaar's point:  never ONCE hit my kid.  Never ONCE talked to her like a baby.  I talked to her like an adult from day one.

Now, so you know I'm not perfect, I do absolutely live my life through her.  I'm trying to talk her into seeing Kiss next week! 

[Podaar]

You're reasoning with her, Stadler. I see no problem here. 

[cramx3]

To Podaar's point:  never ONCE hit my kid. 

Is hitting children really deemed to be so terrible?  I was hit quite a bit as a kid and feel like I am well off because of it.  Maybe that is not the case, but I know that not hitting your child is the more popular thing to do now a days.

[Podaar]

Not everyone agrees with the notion, cramx3, but the general idea is: If you use violence as a solution to problems with your children, all you are teaching them is to be violent. If you, however, use reason (treat them as capable adults even when they are very young) you will teach them to become reasoning adults.

Like any parenting philosophy nothing is fool proof because we are all individuals, even children. I'd say my biggest mistake as a parent was that I was slow to learn to be flexible. I eventually got it, but for a while there I was pretty confused about why some conversations worked well with kid1 but utterly failed with kid2. Asking a lot of questions seemed to help.

[Hyperplex]

I don't use it because I want my kids to behave out of understanding that it's how one is supposed to act, not because they are afraid of getting hurt or of my wrath.

The moment my kids are afraid of me is the moment I've failed as a parent.

[cramx3]

btw, I'm not a parent and I'm not entirely sure that spanking my kid is something I'd do, just talking from my own experience growing up.  I kind of do feel that my parents toughness on me helped mold me into a decent person thought.  But that toughness was mixed with lots of love and care.  It was not a one sided relationship.

[King Postwhore]

A pat on the bum when I was young worked.  As I hit 10 and older it was taking about good and bad.  Looking back the footsteps of my dad was scarier than the bumper slap was.

BTW, it was only a bum slap.  Never anything else.

[Blind Faythe]

These are all interesting to read and so insightful.

My parents have never hit me once in my life. My brothers, told me that when they were younger, they've been spanked and yelled at and even had items thrown at them. Right now, all my parents do to me is ground me. They've never laid a hand on me, even when I pissed them off and I am grateful. Though, I don't know what to think about spanking your kids.

If your kids steal candy from a store, you can give them a warning. If they don't follow that warning, you can give them a stern talking too. If they continually steal from a store, would it then be ok to hit them? Is there any way of getting your children to listen to you without hitting them?

My brothers told me that they always said that when they grow up, they won't treat their kids like how they have been treated. I sometimes had that feeling. When my parents yelled at me and grounded and treated me like I was trash, I thought to myself: "When I have kids, I will never treat them like this." When I told that to my parents, they told me that, that was the exact thought they had when they were disciplined by their parents, but as they grew older, they turned out just like their parents.

I still have to thank them for their discipline, no matter how much I hate it, because I believe that through discipline, we grow, and no matter how much they appear to hate us, they love us.

[Hyperplex]

The concept of spanking is a divided and touchy subject around parents, especially parents of our generation. the line between discipline and child abuse is very thin, blurry, and easily crossed. It's very much a matter of opinion, but I would say there is DEFINITELY a way to have kids listen without hitting them. However, it requires consistency and starting young. If you instill in your children what you expect of them and nurture the behavior you wish, they will learn progressively. A child can't behave if he or she doesn't know what is expected of them. But giving kids credit for having the minds they do is important. Kids aren't stupid; they can tell when you're patronizing them and talking down to them. Teach respect, and treat with respect, and you will get respect in return. I believe if your kids know from the start that you are there for them, but expect certain things from them, they will want to be good, rather than feeling a need to rebel or lash out.

Granted, once the teen years come around it's anybody's guess how that will go, but I still believe consistency, trust, respect, and support are what is necessary. Sternness and strictness have their place, nurturing and caring I feel matter more.

[DebraKadabra]

There's discipline, and then there's abuse. Discipline NEVER equates to abuse.

That said--my abuser (who is my mother) really didn't actively give me the proper tool box to cope with success and failure (because you cannot have one without the other). My father picked up her slack, thankfully. I never graduated college, but Dad didn't prevent me from going if that was my wish to do so. He couldn't help much financially, and what I was originally going to school for was something that I ended up not wanting to do anyway. Ultimately, I am the one who has decided not to go back and I haven't figured out if that decision helped or hindered me since the job that I have now I was able to get with hard work, working my way up, and a high school diploma. Getting a good job with just a high school diploma these days is very rare.

I will say that even though I never had children of my own, I had a large hand in helping to shape the young women who are my ex's two daughters (he and I were together for over 8 years). I gave them the respect and decency that I never received from my abuser, so that cycle thankfully didn't continue. Doing that also helped me and them. It helped me to heal and it helped them to become the young women that they are today. To answer your question, I never expected anything from the girls other than what I knew they were capable of. When my ex and I got together, they were both teens so I was able to help with growing pains/female issues/et cetera. I have a feeling that your parents do want the best for you, but pushing you as it seems they are doing might have the opposite effect. Just recognize that they love you and they're trying, but also recognize too that you're 16 and still allowed to be a kid occasionally.

TL;DR delicate balance.

[Jester]

Well, I'm raising a fresh baby girl and it is quite interesting.  She's only 4 months going on 5.  Obviously I try to recall some of the things I enjoyed or found valuable as a kid.  Although I'm making sure to work in learning experiences, right now my main goal is to make her smile and laugh as much as possible because I recall hearing how their brain is being wired for introvert v. extrovert, happy v. depressed and things of that nature at this age.  She loves Sesame Street YouTube videos, but absolutely hates The Count, so he's banned.

But there is one thing I'm worried about simply because I recall a couple of semi-jarring experiences that I think stick with me to this day.  It revolves around not handling failure well.  The end result being I have to be careful when I try things out of my comfort zone.

My problem is that I had quite a bit more success than failure growing up.  So that made the failures even more pronounced.  More frequency early on might have made them easier to handle later on OR maybe they would have made it worse?

The first experience was my younger brother was better at soccer than me.  Not that he could beat me, but he was obviously doing better with his peers than I was.  Nobody ever brought it up.  But I knew and I think it just made me work harder.  In the end, I had a better childhood sports experience as I persevered and he dropped out right after soccer and never really did sports again.  To be clear, when it came to soccer, he was always more talented than me at it.  So it wasn't really about a lifetime sibling rivalry, but more that I was able to realize he was better as something than me, I was allowed my space to develop a work ethic to improve and it became a positive character trait.

The second experience was horrible.  Loved playing two player baseball on the video game console.  My friends and I were all equals as we'd play each other all the time.  All that practice meant I dominated my family members.  One Saturday morning, I was playing my father and wasn't beating him as easily.  Just the chance that I might finally lose had me playing with a little more seriousness and a lot less fun.  I honestly don't recall if I lost or won in a less dominant way.  But when the game was over, I decided I had enough for the day.  My father decided it was time to teach me a lesson and told me I couldn't just leave when he was finally getting better.  I was forced to play another game, with all the fun sucked out of it.  I'm pretty positive I lost that time because I just wanted it to end.  Just glad the forced game was over, so I tried to leave again.  Now my father angrily told me that life wasn't always going to be easy and I can't just run away from a challenge.  I think I had to play until the sun went down in my worst video game experience ever.  Now that I think about it, I didn't even want to play that game with my friends again after that.  I was probably 5 or 6 at the time.

On a non-family level, around 2nd grade we were having the typical Spelling Bee competitions.  Our class had a weekly full class spelling competition.  The winner was almost always me and a friend.  In fact, it became a very fun and friendly competition as we traded wins throughout the year.  Then one time I was given an extremely easy word, but it was just one of those common words that was totally foreign to me.  When I spelled it wrong, everybody in the class laughed.  I probably would have too, because that's what kids do.  But it definitely created a sort of phobia.  If something is so easy, I'm almost afraid to do it in public.  It is one thing to aim high and miss.   But to miss a sure thing almost unnerves me.  Play a hard guitar part, then worry I'm going to mess up the power chords.  The unease isn't dramatic, but it is there.

Because I never truly found the path in that area, I'm worried I'm going to screw it up with her.  My last two growth experiences had a negative impact on me, but the first had a positive impact.  I don't want her to be gun shy, but I also don't want her to be the kid that is given so much positive reinforcement that she doesn't honestly evaluate if she needs to work a little harder.

So how did the experienced parents deal with their kid's setbacks and failures?

Side note, totally agree with not hitting the child and even more so that a parent ruling by pure fear is a bad path.  Wait 'til your father gets home.

[Stadler]

I think Debra had it right:  BALANCE.

I don't discount the experience, but I do sort of have to ask whether ONE incident with a video game scarred you for life.   Failure is never (or shouldn't ever be) easy or pleasant.   Losing should never be "fun" (in and of itself).   Not every experience is going to be "positive", and I would argue that unless and until it becomes obsessive, the lessons you learned - work harder, don't take the little things for granted, pay attention to details - aren't "negative" impacts at all.

[DebraKadabra]

And failure makes your successes that much more sweet.

[Jester]

And failure makes your successes that much more sweet.

I will keep her away from Yoda.  "There is no try."  What a little green jerk.   

[Hyperplex]

Failure is the best teacher. What is that quote that I don't think is actually attributed to anyone....?

"Show me someone who has never failed and I'll see someone who has never attempted anything."

Something like that.