Author Topic: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour  (Read 18790 times)

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Offline fischermasamune

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2016, 08:08:35 PM »
They weren't playing to a click then. If we don't get different singers, the show would feature nothing different from the album.

...except for:
-A live presentation
-Video
-The amazing visuals
-The crowd interaction
-Extended solo on A New Beginning
-Likely, the only chance ever to have a live presentation of this album in its entirety
Etc.

Plus the spoken intro, and the extra buzz in The Descent of the NOMACs, of course.

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2016, 10:20:42 PM »
As someone who doesn't play instruments, I wouldn't even recognize mistakes, unless they're major clusterfucks.

You're at a concert, you're caught in the moment, the sound is what it is and always LOUD, how can you notice a minor mistake unless you're paying attention to a specific instrument that youreself you're familiar with? I could only realize how bad a singer is singing if that's the case, and that's it.

I'm not a musician either, but depends on how well you know the band/music and how good the sound is at the concert to notice the mistakes for me.  Regardless, if it's on a release it will be much more easily discovered and probably ridiculed and is a good reason why the band (or any band) wouldn't do that.

I wouldn't mind a DVD. But my god talk about spoiled fans.

Just cause they play with a click now doesn't mean anything.
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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #37 on: November 06, 2016, 04:18:35 AM »
Just cause they play with a click now doesn't mean anything.

I wouldn't say it doesn't mean anything because it factually does.  It means the tempo will not change.  However, that does not make the music or performance less enjoyable for me, but it does take away from some of the "live feel" I will call it.  If I had the option to chose, I would chose for the band to play without the click and risk mistakes or tempo changes.

Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #38 on: November 06, 2016, 06:09:01 AM »
These days DT is also putting a rather heavy hand on their dubbing process. I have honestly listened to the bootleg of the Boston show more often than the official DVD, because on the bootleg I know I'm listening to the orchestra, not an overdub. Remember when they released the teaser video of the show and the audio totally didn't match up with JP's visuals because they had overdubbed big parts of his solo for the DVD? That stuff sticks with me, and drags down my enjoyment of it. .

I don't know if this is official or legal, but I would really like to hear that bootleg! Can you tell me where to get it? Once again, if this is not okay, I'm sorry.

I would LOVE an Astonishing-DVD, since I loved the album and the two concerts I saw were amazing. I think, music always makes another impression on me when played live.
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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #39 on: November 06, 2016, 08:49:47 AM »
Just cause they play with a click now doesn't mean anything.

I wouldn't say it doesn't mean anything because it factually does.  It means the tempo will not change.  However, that does not make the music or performance less enjoyable for me, but it does take away from some of the "live feel" I will call it.  If I had the option to chose, I would chose for the band to play without the click and risk mistakes or tempo changes.

And end up with a song being too fast...Disappear and The Glass Prison, of which must've sucked for JP And JR.


But also, doesn't Mangini control the click? He could change it up or slow it down by hitting a pad a couple times to lower or speed up the click.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #40 on: November 06, 2016, 08:52:26 AM »
Just cause they play with a click now doesn't mean anything.

I wouldn't say it doesn't mean anything because it factually does.  It means the tempo will not change.  However, that does not make the music or performance less enjoyable for me, but it does take away from some of the "live feel" I will call it.  If I had the option to chose, I would chose for the band to play without the click and risk mistakes or tempo changes.

And end up with a song being too fast...Disappear and The Glass Prison, of which must've sucked for JP And JR.


But also, doesn't Mangini control the click? He could change it up or slow it down by hitting a pad a couple times to lower or speed up the click.

Nope. The primary purpose of the click is to sync up the video / lights / backing tracks, so the tempo is all fixed.
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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #41 on: November 06, 2016, 08:57:08 AM »
Just cause they play with a click now doesn't mean anything.

I wouldn't say it doesn't mean anything because it factually does.  It means the tempo will not change.  However, that does not make the music or performance less enjoyable for me, but it does take away from some of the "live feel" I will call it.  If I had the option to chose, I would chose for the band to play without the click and risk mistakes or tempo changes.

And end up with a song being too fast...Disappear and The Glass Prison, of which must've sucked for JP And JR.


But also, doesn't Mangini control the click? He could change it up or slow it down by hitting a pad a couple times to lower or speed up the click.

Nope. The primary purpose of the click is to sync up the video / lights / backing tracks, so the tempo is all fixed.

I know that. But I mean, couldn't he up it up if he wanted? It's not that big of a change to sync the lights and vids. Compared to how the crew had to play live as well before.

I think it's mainly for the backing tracks because of the timing of vocals and other things, like samples.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #42 on: November 06, 2016, 09:01:35 AM »
Just cause they play with a click now doesn't mean anything.

I wouldn't say it doesn't mean anything because it factually does.  It means the tempo will not change.  However, that does not make the music or performance less enjoyable for me, but it does take away from some of the "live feel" I will call it.  If I had the option to chose, I would chose for the band to play without the click and risk mistakes or tempo changes.

And end up with a song being too fast...Disappear and The Glass Prison, of which must've sucked for JP And JR.


But also, doesn't Mangini control the click? He could change it up or slow it down by hitting a pad a couple times to lower or speed up the click.

Nope. The primary purpose of the click is to sync up the video / lights / backing tracks, so the tempo is all fixed.

I know that. But I mean, couldn't he up it up if he wanted? It's not that big of a change to sync the lights and vids. Compared to how the crew had to play live as well before.

I think it's mainly for the backing tracks because of the timing of vocals and other things, like samples.

The show is not set up the way it used to be. Video would require a lot more work to set it up to sync a particular section to a particular part of the song, it was basically done manually before, and that was with a lot of additional prep work. Lights are probably easy enough with the way it's triggered. Backing tracks, no. The backing tracks are all recorded to studio tempo. You don't just resample that on the fly. There is no room for change with their current setup. Everything will be identical night after night.
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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #43 on: November 06, 2016, 09:03:55 AM »
Just cause they play with a click now doesn't mean anything.

I wouldn't say it doesn't mean anything because it factually does.  It means the tempo will not change.  However, that does not make the music or performance less enjoyable for me, but it does take away from some of the "live feel" I will call it.  If I had the option to chose, I would chose for the band to play without the click and risk mistakes or tempo changes.

And end up with a song being too fast...Disappear and The Glass Prison, of which must've sucked for JP And JR.


But also, doesn't Mangini control the click? He could change it up or slow it down by hitting a pad a couple times to lower or speed up the click.

Nope. The primary purpose of the click is to sync up the video / lights / backing tracks, so the tempo is all fixed.

I know that. But I mean, couldn't he up it up if he wanted? It's not that big of a change to sync the lights and vids. Compared to how the crew had to play live as well before.

I think it's mainly for the backing tracks because of the timing of vocals and other things, like samples.

The show is not set up the way it used to be. Video would require a lot more work to set it up to sync a particular section to a particular part of the song, it was basically done manually before, and that was with a lot of additional prep work. Lights are probably easy enough with the way it's triggered. Backing tracks, no. The backing tracks are all recorded to studio tempo. You don't just resample that on the fly. There is no room for change with their current setup. Everything will be identical night after night.

Thanks for explaining the click tracks. I don't have a problem with it. The band seems to love playing at album tempo, especially JM.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #44 on: November 06, 2016, 09:22:45 AM »
The problem about album tempo is that in the adrenaline rush of a live performance, certain songs come across as sluggish when played at that speed. I mean, there's a reason why bands almost always play stuff faster live if they don't play with click. It's the excitement of the moment that makes you want to play it faster.

Bottom line is, during the prep phase of the tour they should have baked in a certain speedup. Or, alternatively, leave a few songs without videos and backing tracks so they can play it live.
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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #45 on: November 06, 2016, 09:34:02 AM »
The problem about album tempo is that in the adrenaline rush of a live performance, certain songs come across as sluggish when played at that speed. I mean, there's a reason why bands almost always play stuff faster live if they don't play with click. It's the excitement of the moment that makes you want to play it faster.

Bottom line is, during the prep phase of the tour they should have baked in a certain speedup. Or, alternatively, leave a few songs without videos and backing tracks so they can play it live.

I agree. I'm ok with them using a click track and keeping a lid on the tempos from getting too fast as could happen with MP on certain songs, but several songs just don't translate well at album tempo live imo. Hearing TSCO on LALP, that outro is total blue balls for me. It desperately needed that bit extra, but it's just held back from being able to match the energy of the live setting, and plods along.
Maybe it would be hard to figure out what tempos will work best live, as by the time they get together to rehearse and play the songs together, the live production is almost complete, but I'd like to see some more attention given to the differences between playing in the studio and playing to an audience. And I have no doubt MM can stick to a tempo without a click if they ever decided to return to that approach too.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #46 on: November 06, 2016, 10:07:37 AM »
I just used one of those tapping BPM counter apps, and amazingly, the difference between TSCO on Score and LALP is 3bpm at best. But it makes all the world of a difference. On LALP you can tell JP is struggling to stay on tempo because he naturally wants to play faster. His runs end early, and then he has to wait a bit to be back in the beat.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #47 on: November 06, 2016, 10:11:17 AM »
I just used one of those tapping BPM counter apps, and amazingly, the difference between TSCO on Score and LALP is 3bpm at best. But it makes all the world of a difference. On LALP you can tell JP is struggling to stay on tempo because he naturally wants to play faster. His runs end early, and then he has to wait a bit to be back in the beat.

Damn! Have you checked the tempo of the Score version at start and end to compare the relative change in tempo? I think the outro is faster on LSFNY, so that might also be worth checking. The energy of the outro with MP feels like a lot more than a 3bpm increase. It could also be due to MM's hats setup, which doesn't allow that looser sound to give the extra dynamics too, so maybe it's the combo of tempo + dynamics.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #48 on: November 06, 2016, 10:22:28 AM »
Good thing you had me check again! What actually happens is that while at the end the LALP and Score version are about 3bpm apart, the Score version starts much slower, so it covers a spread of 10bpm. LALP experiences some speedup, but nowhere near as much.
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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2016, 10:26:59 AM »
Yeah, I had a suspicion that might have been the case. The Score version starts fairly loose with JR setting the initial tempo, so I expected it would be slower than studio tempo to begin with. Also I just realized it looks like MP is hitting crash for most of the outro rather than just the hi-hats, which also helps elevate the outro.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 10:32:44 AM by BlobVanDam »
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2016, 10:33:20 AM »
But I agree also on the drum part. Not that MP was the master of dynamics, but MM's range is very narrow, so the slow buildup during TSCO doesn't come across as well.
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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2016, 02:18:48 PM »
You know,  maybe the blame isn't on MM but on the band wanting to incorporate he video with the music.  It hampers drummers being organic.
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Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2016, 03:18:28 PM »
I always felt that Trial Of Tears was too slow on Breaking The Fourth Wall!! But it's really just the original tempo. I think MMs playing just isn't as "fluid" as MPs is, as much as I love MM. And why the hell didn't he play the real drum pickup, but instead hit three times on the china cymbals and once on the snare? He could have easily done the real pickup.
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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2016, 04:13:46 PM »
The "It's Raining" part at the end on BTFW is also a let down in comparison to the Budokan version. So much energy in Tokyo, at tempo, it feels lifeless in Boston
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2016, 05:07:58 PM »
And why the hell didn't he play the real drum pickup, but instead hit three times on the china cymbals and once on the snare?

If you want to talk about minutiae, that "drum roll" in Trial of Tears is so distracting. I remember seeing either a video or reading a FB post of his where he said he doesn't do classic drum rolls because the hits during the roll don't perfectly line up with the beat. So, instead he approximates a drum roll with superfast hits (64ths or something).
Problem is, you can tell the difference, and I find it totally distracting.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2016, 05:15:01 PM by rumborak »
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Offline Fritzinger

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2016, 05:41:15 PM »
And why the hell didn't he play the real drum pickup, but instead hit three times on the china cymbals and once on the snare?

If you want to talk about minutiae, that "drum roll" in Trial of Tears is so distracting. I remember seeing either a video or reading a FB post of his where he said he doesn't do classic drum rolls because the hits during the roll don't perfectly line up with the beat. So, instead he approximates a drum roll with superfast hits (64ths or something).
Problem is, you can tell the difference, and I find it totally distracting.

Sorry if I misunderstand you, but I am talking about the one at 1:43  (studio version).
Or did you mean to say, you ALSO dislike that other part in the last third, when James sing "ashes"?
I never noticed that, but now that you say it, you're right!
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #56 on: November 07, 2016, 09:42:34 AM »
Looks like they are in fact actually adding some "classic" songs into the set.  Hopefully, some of this will make the video release.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XE8pFURwYrA
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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #57 on: November 07, 2016, 09:50:37 AM »
Just saw that.

A concession that the whole album only shows aren't bringing in the punters ?

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #58 on: November 07, 2016, 09:57:48 AM »
Just saw that.

A concession that the whole album only shows aren't bringing in the punters ?

My guess as stated in the tour thread is that this is for the southern fans who haven't had DT in the area in a long time.

Offline goo-goo

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #59 on: November 07, 2016, 11:33:09 AM »
My wife is not going to be happy about this. I told her it was going to be only a 2 hr show  :rollin
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Offline TAC

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #60 on: November 07, 2016, 11:42:28 AM »
Just saw that.

A concession that the whole album only shows aren't bringing in the punters ?

My guess as stated in the tour thread is that this is for the southern fans who haven't had DT in the area in a long time.

That makes total sense.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline Thoughtspart3

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #61 on: November 09, 2016, 08:19:14 PM »
That is great.  They are listening to the fans who wanted some other songs in addition to TA.  I wish they had done that at our show but I am happy for everyone else. 

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #62 on: November 15, 2016, 01:55:28 PM »
I read somewhere that, according to some people who attended TA shows and M&G this last couple weeks, the band is recording the TA shows and, if you compare some pics from the start of the tour, and from the 2nd US leg, Jordan's keyboard now has a gopro on it, while previously he didn't have any cameras there.

Could this mean they're going to make the TA Live DVD/Blue Ray a live compilation like CIM was? (of course with much better quality, I hope). Do you think this could be the case?
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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #63 on: November 15, 2016, 03:01:09 PM »
I read somewhere that, according to some people who attended TA shows and M&G this last couple weeks, the band is recording the TA shows and, if you compare some pics from the start of the tour, and from the 2nd US leg, Jordan's keyboard now has a gopro on it, while previously he didn't have any cameras there.

Could this mean they're going to make the TA Live DVD/Blue Ray a live compilation like CIM was? (of course with much better quality, I hope). Do you think this could be the case?
This could very well be the case. Something is better than nothing! Being that they are now planning on the I&W anniversary tour in early 2017, I don't see how they could squeeze in a major production of TA on film. I hope I'm wrong, I would love more than anything to have a epic blu-ray/dvd release of The Astonishing with great HD filming and sound production. Not too many camera angles though. So many concert releases have the camera angles bouncing around way too much (a'la Maiden en Vivo) to the point it gets annoying. I like the shots from the audiences point of view the most.
I hope they don't release something cringeworthy like CIM, even though it has its good parts..
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Offline PetFish

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #64 on: November 15, 2016, 04:02:07 PM »
I'd be surprised if they weren't releasing a live video.  The Astonishing is just too big of a production to not do one.

I just don't want "gimmicky" footage.  No psychadelic stuff.  No "360" camera stuff.  Just solid editing like on Budokan and SCORE.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #65 on: November 15, 2016, 04:29:32 PM »
I think it would be exceedingly cool if DT recorded the album open air, at a place that fits with the album theme. No audience, just them playing, with a steadycam going between them.
The way it looks it will likely just be another dark indoor DVD though.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #66 on: November 15, 2016, 04:30:43 PM »
I think it would be exceedingly cool if DT recorded the album open air, at a place that fits with the album theme. No audience, just them playing, with a steadycam going between them.

So like a live music video?

Also is it one camera doing the whole thing? So no edits at all?

Hmmm that could be interesting.
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #67 on: November 15, 2016, 04:34:42 PM »
Yeah, something like the U2 video back in the day, or Sigur Ros' Heima, or Pink Floyd's Pompeii. Choose a surrounding that creates a cool mood, not just another metal venue.
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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #68 on: November 15, 2016, 04:47:21 PM »
...Yeah, like beneath the stars at Heaven's Cove.

:neverusethis:
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: Blu Ray / DVD of The Astonishing tour
« Reply #69 on: November 15, 2016, 04:55:40 PM »
Yeah, something like the U2 video back in the day, or Sigur Ros' Heima, or Pink Floyd's Pompeii. Choose a surrounding that creates a cool mood, not just another metal venue.

I love this idea.
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