Listened to DT12 after a quite some time and these are my impressions:

[KevShmev]

Um, it was all my opinion. Why would you bash on me for having an opinion? I don't think there are such things as "so much wrongs" on opinions because we were all created differently. I don't want to be bashed everytime I write my opinion.

Also, The Enemy Inside might be your weakest link, but I think The Enemy Inside Inside is a solid song and Enigma Machine is the weakest link of this album.

Opinions. We all have them. Honestly, you brought me down a bit with that comment, because I take every comment to heart, but I understand why you wrote that.

Don't let Scar get to you; most of us around here are much nicer than that. 

Keep the opinions coming and we can discuss. 

[erwinrafael]

Dream Theater is my third favorite Dream Theater album, behind The Astonishing and Awake. It has ny favorite DT epic in Illumination Theory, which for me is the most meticulously composed DT piece in terms of structure. Outside the epic, I love how each song is some sort of a short intro to a newbie of what DT songs are about (a rocking metal intro, a Rush-like rocker, an instrumental, an anthemic piece, a prog METAL song, a PROG metal song, a ballad).

If we are talking about the mix, not their best sounding album but it's not really bad. It is more of the mix works really well with the more heavy songs (TEI, BTV, EM) but not with songs like AFTR and TLG. That said:

Should be higher in the mix - keys, cymbals
Should be lower in the mix - the guitar
Just right - the bass. At first I didn't like it because it does not have that depth, but I learned to love it because it has a unique character. I also love the toms and the bass drum.

About the snare, I think BTFW has shown us how much better it could have been. Even Mangini had his misgivings, but team player that he is, he worked with the team vision. The silver lining really is that he developed a new technique because of the snare (that is, putting much of what could have been the ghost notes on the rides and hi-hats).

[Scar]

Nice thread Dark Lord!

I agree with the majority of your impressions, here are some of mine:

1) The drumming doesn't sound bad at all! Actually, I kinda love the snared sound from here a lot.

2) Behind the Veil, I'd say would be my main player for this album. Although it isn't as long as Illumination Theory, I really think the song's foundation is really strong. Petrucci's riffs are amazing and his solo just is awesome!

3) Enigma Machine for me was the only song in this album that kind of stood out like a sore thumb. Other instrumentals like Stream of Consciousness, Hell's Kitchen, Erotomania had a lot of great melodies, but Enigma Machine was just...what's the word? I just didn't like it as much.

4) I feel like Jordan Rudess should have had more solo's. Petrucci took like all of them. No hate though.

There is so much wrong here, it is pretty painful. 

I won't say if the drum is good or not because I really don't care about how it sounds. How Mike played those fills, those beats, those solo's....that is what I look at, not at the sound. Same for Images and Words....I don't care about the flat snare.

Behind the Veil is an underrated song, but you yourself, you are overrating it. 
It is nowhere as near as powerful as IT or TBP. I know how it's your "opinion", but you should know when an opinion is very weak and without proof when you compare two totally different stuff like: Justin Bieber is worse than Opeth. I mean, seriously?

Enigma Machine had great melodies too. The bass had a super prominent role in this song and all instruments got a fair share of their solo's and we haven't seen a song like that since Ytse Jam. To me EM, was not the weakest link of the song. I'd have to say The Enemy Inside would be their weakest.

Go to Petrucci or Dream Theater and say what you said: "Jordan Rudess should have had more solo's."
They did not exclude Rudess' solo on purpose. It's not like they just said to Jordan, "Jordan, your solo's are great, but this album will be mostly guitar solo's." Why don't you listen to "As I Am", the song's meaning was written specifically written for fan's like you.

As has been mentioned, this is WAY out of line.  You need to knock that off immediately.  Consider this a warning.

And FYI, As I Am has nothing to do with fans.

Yu know, I don't why my comment warranted all that. You know that sometimes you have to speak the harsh truth in order for the point to get through. I just did that. It might have sounded a little condescending, but that's life!

[KevShmev]

Yu know, I don't why my comment warranted all that. You know that sometimes you have to speak the harsh truth in order for the point to get through. I just did that. It might have sounded a little condescending, but that's life!

Except that you didn't speak truth; you spouted opinions and trashed someone else's. Nice way to act to a relatively new member to the board.  :town

And your As I Am comment a) made zero sense, indicating you have no clue what the song is about, and b) was obviously intended to be a mean-spirited dig. 

[Scar]

I do know what As I Am means
 Its for the guitarist of Queensyrche who tried telling Petrucci on how to play his guitar
 That I know, but as I am can have that meaning to: Take the band for who they are, don't try to change it.
Just because a song had an original meaning, doesn't mean it can't mean others.
I told her that her opinion was wrong. If I said that Martin Van Buren was the greatest American prescient ever, you have every right to say that my opinion is wrong, then give your opinion
 

Edit: why am i being watched?

[Train of Naught]

Scar using wikipedia to justify his posts, what's new.

[Adami]

............well this thread has taken a strange turn.


How about this, since I consider this my lowest ranked DT album, I'll state the things I like about it.

1. I really like False Awakening Suite. It's short, but it has some really awesome ideas in it.
2. I think if Along for the Ride had different production, I could really dig it. The composition is mostly really good.
3. Parts of Illumination theory are great. Some of his best heavy riffs in a long time are in that song. I also really like the orchestra break. I think maybe it's the last 3rd or something that I don't like, but I think I like the rest. Mangini really nails this song
4. Behind the Veil is still a song I can regularly listen to. Just a good song with good melodies.

[Scar]

Scar using wikipedia to justify his posts, what's new.

Any proof on that? Don't just assume.

[KevShmev]

Edit: why am i being watched?

You're not being watched, but when someone is really rude to someone, as you were to Blind Faythe, expect to be called out for it. 

[Scar]

No, there is a watched green sign on the bottom of my name

[Adami]

No, there is a watched green sign on the bottom of my name

Because Bosk issued you a warning.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

lol

[Madman Shepherd]

My opinion on this album hasn't really changed.  I still think ADTOE is the best DT album and The Astonishing is the worst.  I don't really rank albums but I would probably put DT12 somewhere in the middle. 

I think it got off to a sloppy start with The False Awakening Suite which really just sounds like a video game soundtrack.  The Enemy Inside is also the weakest song on the album even though there is nothing wrong with it.  The Looking Glass is also a rather bland song. 

Then the album picks up.  I get that the Enigma Machine isn't well loved but I think it is one of DT's best instrumentals.  It has everything I want in an instrumental.  It actually feels like a song whereas The Dance of Eternity feels like a show off piece. 

Now we get to The Bigger Picture which is one of DT's greatest songs of all time, hands down.  I honestly am still kind of surprised it doesn't get more love. 

Behind the Veil and Surrender to Reason are pretty decent. 

Along for the Ride is an amazing song that doesn't get enough love.  I wish it would become DT's "anthem" rather than The Spirit Carries On which I've always felt was pretty weak. 

Illumination Theory is a very weird epic.  I love everything about it but the lyrics almost don't fit with the rest of the album.  That's nitpicking though. 

Also, I think the drum sound is sort of on par with I&W's drum sound.  It's going to sound dated pretty quick but to people that can live in the moment or put themselves in that sort of trendy time frame, it actually isn't that bad.  I like it but I'm glad they've scaled back.  Once is enough. 

[Anguyen92]

If we're still giving out the annual "thoughts on DT12" opinion, I still love it.  I would rate this album highly in my Top 50 albums (I still need to update that, but my brain is just not clicking in terms of writing the thoughts in the honest approach that I want it to be). 

The Bigger Picture was that sort of song that I wanted to hear in my life in 2013.  Loved the intro to Surrender to Reason and enjoyed Behind the Veil as a whole.  Illumination Theory was a strong song that kept my attention throughout its length (if any long song keeps my attention through its whole length, then it's a great song).

[Blind Faythe]

The Bigger Picture was that sort of song that I wanted to hear in my life in 2013.  Loved the intro to Surrender to Reason and enjoyed Behind the Veil as a whole.  Illumination Theory was a strong song that kept my attention throughout its length (if any long song keeps my attention through its whole length, then it's a great song).

I agree. Also, love the chorus to Surrender to Reason very much. It is really catchy.
As for Illumination Theory, I love the string section in the middle very much and the "easter egg" at the end. A really beautiful song and the ending quote really brings the mood up in me. Awesome.

[axeman90210]

The best of the post Portnoy albums for me. It doesn't have anything as good as Breaking All Illusions on it, but it's a very consistently strong album for me with not much in the way of tracks I feel compelled to skip while I'm spinning it.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

The Bigger Picture was that sort of song that I wanted to hear in my life in 2013.  Loved the intro to Surrender to Reason and enjoyed Behind the Veil as a whole.  Illumination Theory was a strong song that kept my attention throughout its length (if any long song keeps my attention through its whole length, then it's a great song).

I agree. Also, love the chorus to Surrender to Reason very much. It is really catchy.
As for Illumination Theory, I love the string section in the middle very much and the "easter egg" at the end. A really beautiful song and the ending quote really brings the mood up in me. Awesome.

The Illumination Theory string section is one of the best things DT has ever done. Funnily enough, it doesn't include any of their instruments lol.

[Implode]

Lump me in with the crowd that thinks the production ruins it for them. That isn't to say it would've been a stellar album otherwise, but it's not their worst. Near the bottom for me, though.

That said, there are plenty of great ideas in the album that I do appreciate. None of them just make it quite all the way there to interest me enough to listen to the album regularly.

[Blind Faythe]

The Bigger Picture was that sort of song that I wanted to hear in my life in 2013.  Loved the intro to Surrender to Reason and enjoyed Behind the Veil as a whole.  Illumination Theory was a strong song that kept my attention throughout its length (if any long song keeps my attention through its whole length, then it's a great song).

I agree. Also, love the chorus to Surrender to Reason very much. It is really catchy.
As for Illumination Theory, I love the string section in the middle very much and the "easter egg" at the end. A really beautiful song and the ending quote really brings the mood up in me. Awesome.

The Illumination Theory string section is one of the best things DT has ever done. Funnily enough, it doesn't include any of their instruments lol.

Agreed. Very peaceful and charming to listen too. And yeah, none of the band's instruments. XD

[IDontNotDoThings]

The Bigger Picture was that sort of song that I wanted to hear in my life in 2013.  Loved the intro to Surrender to Reason and enjoyed Behind the Veil as a whole.  Illumination Theory was a strong song that kept my attention throughout its length (if any long song keeps my attention through its whole length, then it's a great song).

I agree. Also, love the chorus to Surrender to Reason very much. It is really catchy.
As for Illumination Theory, I love the string section in the middle very much and the "easter egg" at the end. A really beautiful song and the ending quote really brings the mood up in me. Awesome.

The Illumination Theory string section is one of the best things DT has ever done. Funnily enough, it doesn't include any of their instruments lol.

I'm indifferent about the string section, but maybe part of that comes with the awkward placing of it in between two heavy sections with very little musical transition. I think I would've enjoyed it more if it came as the prelude to Illumination Theory, maybe even as its own track that crosses into the beginning of Paradoxe De La Lumière Noire.

[Dublagent66]

It's been longer than a year for me.  Bad production or not, the album for the most part, just isn't that appealing to me.  I think of DT's discography as a mountain.  SDOIT being the peak.  Subsequent albums on their way down the other side but still pretty good thru ADTOE.  The song BAI is an epic peak in itself but the drop off continues after that.

Also, the fascination with IT still eludes me to this day.  Just because a song has structure doesn't mean it's structured well and/or musically appealing.  But hey, whatever tosses the salad huh? 

[Mosh]

Also, the fascination with IT still eludes me to this day.  Just because a song has structure doesn't mean it's structured well and/or musically appealing.  But hey, whatever tosses the salad huh? 

Well on the other side of that, just because a song is disjointed doesn't mean it's bad.

[Implode]

I'm a big fan of the structure and the composition of IT, but it just sounds so bad with the drums, processed vocals, and horrible production.

[jakepriest]

I'm a big fan of the structure and the composition of IT, but it just sounds so bad with the drums, processed vocals, and horrible production.

And the out of place orchestral section that, while pretty nice to listen to on its own, completely destroys the mood of the song.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I'm a big fan of the structure and the composition of IT, but it just sounds so bad with the drums, processed vocals, and horrible production.

And the out of place orchestral section that, while pretty nice to listen to on its own, completely destroys the mood of the song.

Totally disagreed. It doesn't destroy anything.

[Implode]

I'm a big fan of the structure and the composition of IT, but it just sounds so bad with the drums, processed vocals, and horrible production.

And the out of place orchestral section that, while pretty nice to listen to on its own, completely destroys the mood of the song.

Ehhh. IT isn't a masterpiece, and I can see where you're coming from, but I think it's fine.

[Adami]

I'm a big fan of the structure and the composition of IT, but it just sounds so bad with the drums, processed vocals, and horrible production.

And the out of place orchestral section that, while pretty nice to listen to on its own, completely destroys the mood of the song.

I don't mean this rudely, but what mood?

[TAC]

The 60 seconds before the orchestra destroys the song is one of my favorite 60 seconds in their entire catalog.

[erwinrafael]

The middle section of IT narrates pretty well the journey of enlightenment bridging the questions (Live, Die, Kill) and answers (The Pursuit of Truth). The enlightenment was gradual, which is why it went from a long ambient section to a waltzy orchestral section that tries to communicate a feeling of being in a journey, then the final orchestral section that mirrored the melody in Paradox of the Black Light to signal the moment of enlightenment.

[jakepriest]

I'm a big fan of the structure and the composition of IT, but it just sounds so bad with the drums, processed vocals, and horrible production.

And the out of place orchestral section that, while pretty nice to listen to on its own, completely destroys the mood of the song.

I don't mean this rudely, but what mood?

Try listening to an edit without the orchestral section and you'll see what I mean. If you don't, then well, different strokes for different folks. I'm not trying to put down anyone who likes the song, I just really thing it works much better as an energetic song until the very finale.

[Ben_Jamin]

The middle section of IT narrates pretty well the journey of enlightenment bridging the questions (Live, Die, Kill) and answers (The Pursuit of Truth). The enlightenment was gradual, which is why it went from a long ambient section to a waltzy orchestral section that tries to communicate a feeling of being in a journey, then the final orchestral section that mirrored the melody in Paradox of the Black Light to signal the moment of enlightenment.

That is the best I've seen describe the song.

[Implode]

Yeah! And the part before the instrumental section asks all the questions, and the part after answers them all.

[bosk1]

Yes.  When I first came to understand all of that, it GREATLY enhanced my appreciation for the song.  The concept is brilliant, as is the execution.  But the problem I have is still this:  I just don't like being jarred out of the rapid, upbeat pace of the song for what feels like an over-extended mellow section, and then being jarred back out of that with the same rapid, upbeat pace again.  I mean, overall, I still really like the song.  But the middle section is a definite downer for me.

[Implode]

While it doesn't ruin the song for me, I agree.

To contrast, that concept works in TCOT because it's pretty slow build back into driving and big ending. The meter of the song works really for that build up too in that you can have both a calm/relaxed feel and a powerful/driving one without changing meter or tempos.

In IT, after the drop off and the instrumental section, it pretty much jumps right into the climax of the song, then just moves to the finale, which is always a bit more of a slower, dramatic style. It's jarring in a bad way.

When there's time for the climax to build like in TCOT or 8vm, that high point and subsequent falling action, if you will, are much for satisfying.

[Siddhartha]

Worst DT album, to me it is unlistenable.

But I like the enemy inside and IT in the Breaking DVD.