Author Topic: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION  (Read 4607 times)

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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #140 on: November 28, 2016, 09:47:51 AM »
Agree with you Metro that all they are doing is setting up and showing that there are other colonies that have been terrorized by Negan, and that once they unite they can be a dangerous force. The Hilltop has plenty of food, the Kingdom has plenty of people and now we see that Oceanside has a ton of weapons. But I think we all know and have said that these last couple shows could have been combined in a way to make the same point yet at least keep us interested. For as much as I like(d) Gimple....I'm starting to wonder if he may need to go to get someone in there who understands pacing better. I know he's trying to tell a story but jeez....an hour and ten minutes on a character that no one gives two  :censored about?
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #141 on: November 28, 2016, 10:00:04 AM »
I think Gimple just isn't a particularly good story-teller, outside of the occasional awesome set-piece. Then again, I'm not convinced about Kirkman so it might be the source material. I haven't read the comics, but I know Kirkman has basically said that he knows how TWD will end but is in no rush to get there. It definitely feels like the show is just being dragged out with very similar stories repeating over and over, but it sounds like the comics are essentially the same at this point.

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #142 on: November 28, 2016, 11:23:18 AM »
I think Gimple just isn't a particularly good story-teller, outside of the occasional awesome set-piece. Then again, I'm not convinced about Kirkman so it might be the source material. I haven't read the comics, but I know Kirkman has basically said that he knows how TWD will end but is in no rush to get there. It definitely feels like the show is just being dragged out with very similar stories repeating over and over, but it sounds like the comics are essentially the same at this point.

Gimple has written some cool episodes....but I think his philosophy behind 'story telling' is more a massive over reaching arc....where at the end of the season it all 'comes together'. While I like things that are told like that....you can't be so tone deaf to realize that an entire hour dedicated to a character that no one gives a crap about just to introduce a new future alliance partner and show that there is a massive amount of weapons at that ally's place, is a bad idea. Again, the take away points from that episode could have been accomplished in 20 minutes tops. No one was begging for a Tara-centric episode. I'm a large defender of TWD and still enjoy the heck out of the show but I still can't get over what a waist of time that episode last night was.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #143 on: November 28, 2016, 12:44:33 PM »
It's a shame because, in principle, the overall story-arc approach is completely my thing. He's just so damn slow about it, except in the premieres and finales of each half-season.

He's also, in my opinion, made some very questionable choices recently, but that's a different matter.

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #144 on: November 28, 2016, 12:49:30 PM »
It's a shame because, in principle, the overall story-arc approach is completely my thing. He's just so damn slow about it, except in the premieres and finales of each half-season.

He's also, in my opinion, made some very questionable choices recently, but that's a different matter.

I think he and Kirkman have entered the 'Emperor's New Clothes' era. There are probably a handful of AMC exec's that are loving it and telling them it's great because the casual fan is still really into the show and loves it all. But, the show is facing a death by a thousand small cuts due to 'little' things here and there that are seemingly catching up to them.

I still have high hopes for the arc they are working on....it's such a cool time in the comic with lots of neat things going on but they can't keep making these small 'mistakes' and expect to capture that comic greatness IMO
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #145 on: November 28, 2016, 03:29:50 PM »
I also think the primary reason for the slow as death buildup arc is the large number of episodes. Cut down the number of episodes you'll have tighter story telling. 
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #146 on: November 28, 2016, 03:36:05 PM »
I also think the primary reason for the slow as death buildup arc is the large number of episodes. Cut down the number of episodes you'll have tighter story telling. 
For sure. Either telling more story or trimming it down to, say, 10 episodes a season would make it much more engaging for me.

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #147 on: November 28, 2016, 04:57:37 PM »
I also think the primary reason for the slow as death buildup arc is the large number of episodes. Cut down the number of episodes you'll have tighter story telling. 
For sure. Either telling more story or trimming it down to, say, 10 episodes a season would make it much more engaging for me.

Yep. Thats the AMC Brass milking this show for all it's worth.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #148 on: November 29, 2016, 06:51:06 PM »
While I know these shows are unrelated but what I love about Game of Thrones is that every episode feels important.

With the walking dead I stopped watching it every week a few seasons back, it just drags sometimes.

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #149 on: November 29, 2016, 07:16:49 PM »
While I know these shows are unrelated but what I love about Game of Thrones is that every episode feels important.

With the walking dead I stopped watching it every week a few seasons back, it just drags sometimes.

GOT wastes no time at all. Every minute of that show has a purpose. Due to the 'short' episode seasons. TWD could greatly benefit by having  a 10 or 12 episode season rather than 16.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #150 on: November 29, 2016, 07:53:11 PM »
There's also the fact that there is an endgame in sight with GOT. The show runners went and met up with GRRM right around season 4 and got a synopsis of how things were going to end with each major character that was in the show. So the show is honing towards that goal and is almost there with 2 seasons left. Not sure what the plan is with TWD so there are seasonal arcs mostly though with Negan that might stretch to 2-3 seasons arcs.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #151 on: November 29, 2016, 08:07:59 PM »
I don't follow the comics at all with the walking dead but isn't there an end to that show in sight?

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #152 on: November 29, 2016, 09:23:57 PM »
I don't follow the comics at all with the walking dead but isn't there an end to that show in sight?

Nope
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #153 on: November 30, 2016, 12:01:17 AM »
I don't follow the comics at all with the walking dead but isn't there an end to that show in sight?

Nope
And that's ultimately TWD's main weakness, for me. There's nothing objectively wrong with this approach, but after 5 or more seasons of a show, I generally want to feel either that there's some clear direction in what they're doing, or at least that there's plenty of variety. Whereas TWD has neither at the mo.

But (excluding the whole cliffhanger debacle which I still think was terrible), what TWD does really well is the big set pieces, so I imagine I'll keep sticking with it for those.

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #154 on: November 30, 2016, 02:12:11 AM »
I'm not so sure the amount of episodes per season is an issue, but I do think they need to pick up the pacing.  Season 6 was a big problem, the entire season was buildup to Negan - and that was simply to much.   Negan would have been better brought in at the mid season break (maybe with the same cliffhanger), then the second half of season 6 could have been used to see what we are seeing now in season 7 (introducing the various locations and how they interact with Negan...).  Season 6 would have therefore ended with Rick readying the other camps and issuing a declaration of war at Negan.   Season 7 would have been the war...

Basically speed up the story telling, there is loads and loads of source material still to use!

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #155 on: November 30, 2016, 07:35:41 AM »
I'm not so sure the amount of episodes per season is an issue, but I do think they need to pick up the pacing.  Season 6 was a big problem, the entire season was buildup to Negan - and that was simply to much.   Negan would have been better brought in at the mid season break (maybe with the same cliffhanger), then the second half of season 6 could have been used to see what we are seeing now in season 7 (introducing the various locations and how they interact with Negan...).  Season 6 would have therefore ended with Rick readying the other camps and issuing a declaration of war at Negan.   Season 7 would have been the war...

Basically speed up the story telling, there is loads and loads of source material still to use!

I still maintain it's AMC brass 'encouraging' the pacing in order to milk the cash cow while they can.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #156 on: November 30, 2016, 09:04:27 AM »
I'm not so sure the amount of episodes per season is an issue, but I do think they need to pick up the pacing.  Season 6 was a big problem, the entire season was buildup to Negan - and that was simply to much.   Negan would have been better brought in at the mid season break (maybe with the same cliffhanger), then the second half of season 6 could have been used to see what we are seeing now in season 7 (introducing the various locations and how they interact with Negan...).  Season 6 would have therefore ended with Rick readying the other camps and issuing a declaration of war at Negan.   Season 7 would have been the war...

Basically speed up the story telling, there is loads and loads of source material still to use!

I still maintain it's AMC brass 'encouraging' the pacing in order to milk the cash cow while they can.
I was talking about this with a work friend at lunch today - there's different incentives for network, ad-funded TV stations than for subscription-based services like HBO, Amazon and Netflix, and this is probably one of the key areas that it manifests.

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #157 on: November 30, 2016, 09:19:49 AM »
I'm not so sure the amount of episodes per season is an issue, but I do think they need to pick up the pacing.  Season 6 was a big problem, the entire season was buildup to Negan - and that was simply to much.   Negan would have been better brought in at the mid season break (maybe with the same cliffhanger), then the second half of season 6 could have been used to see what we are seeing now in season 7 (introducing the various locations and how they interact with Negan...).  Season 6 would have therefore ended with Rick readying the other camps and issuing a declaration of war at Negan.   Season 7 would have been the war...

Basically speed up the story telling, there is loads and loads of source material still to use!

I still maintain it's AMC brass 'encouraging' the pacing in order to milk the cash cow while they can.
I was talking about this with a work friend at lunch today - there's different incentives for network, ad-funded TV stations than for subscription-based services like HBO, Amazon and Netflix, and this is probably one of the key areas that it manifests.

Absolutely. I can't imagine how much $$ those 'extra' six or so episodes that are more or less filler episod s withblittle narrative value (like the last one)  brings AMC in advertisement money. It has to be multiple millions of dollars.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #158 on: December 01, 2016, 12:05:46 AM »
I know I'm not wanted in this thread but I just read this article and I just had to say somewhere that I find it absolutely fuckin ridiculous that this season is getting lower ratings. I found the last 3 seasons to be top notch TV and the current one is especially amazing. I never read the graphic novels and even I can easily tell they're building up to something big and that the familiarity they're giving us with each of the communities is very valuable but also fun to watch. This is the first season where I like every episode that has aired from 1 to 6, usually one or two of these would be a filler episode but none this time IMO.
I even liked this Tara episode even though I hate the character and the actress is a humongous new mom that needs bigger suspension of belief than that required to watch a zombie show to believe she's running, fighting and jumping that much.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #159 on: December 01, 2016, 07:46:08 AM »
I know I'm not wanted in this thread

Huh? Why do you think that?
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #160 on: December 02, 2016, 09:02:51 AM »
A buddy of mine had never watched TWD but became intrigued when he saw my Halloween costume and heard all the hub bub about the first episode of season 7. so he started watching from the beginning on November 2nd, and is now caught up for Sunday's episode.

He has two kids, full time job and all the fixings of a "normal" life and just has been binging at the end of the night all last month. That's a lot of effort....he said he feels like he's part of the group  :lol
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Offline Mr. Ister

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #161 on: December 02, 2016, 10:24:35 AM »
This show is best when binged I think.  A couple years ago I caught up on seasons 1-3 in a few weeks and caught up right in time for the midseason finale where Hershel died.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #162 on: December 02, 2016, 10:29:26 AM »
I agree. If I had the patience I'd just let the DVR fill up with each half of the season then binge them. I just don't have the patience to do that.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #163 on: December 04, 2016, 10:37:14 PM »
Loved that episode. Total 180 from last week
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #164 on: December 05, 2016, 06:47:29 AM »
Very good episode.  Was there any actual show content in the final 30 minute block though?  I am pretty sure it was all ads...
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #165 on: December 05, 2016, 08:16:52 AM »
What a surprise, doing multiple story lines in one episode actually made it interesting. Who knew!

Snark aside, seeing the iron being used was cool as was the extent to Negan's HQ. Several good things in that episode and will be interesting to see what cliffhanger they leave us with next week.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #166 on: December 05, 2016, 08:18:59 AM »
Snark aside, seeing the iron being used was cool as was the extent to Negan's HQ. Several good things in that episode and will be interesting to see what cliffhanger they leave us with next week.

If you're a comic reader....I'm thinking it's when Spencer tries to humiliate Rick and offer himself up to Negan as his go to guy and Negan guts him in front of everyone
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #167 on: December 05, 2016, 06:45:15 PM »
The last episode was really good. I love Negan. He's both scary and hilarious.

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #168 on: December 05, 2016, 06:48:56 PM »
The last episode was really good. I love Negan. He's both scary and hilarious.

JDM is doing a great job bringing him to life IMO. It's a tough character to nail because of how 'comicy' Negan is in the graphic novel. He says and does things that are left to the imagination of the reader, yet you can't do that in a show so you have to figure out how to convey the same message.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #169 on: December 06, 2016, 12:01:36 AM »
Yeah I'm not finding Negan very scary at all really, but that's not JDM, it's the writing/production. Part of it, I think, is that we're presumably meant to find it intimidating because of how all-powerful he is. Rick is broken right now and sees no way out but to obey the Saviors, but we the viewer aren't. Since very early on in the season we've seen how Negan gets his power from bullying and intimidation, and while some of the Saviours, I'm sure, are happy, some clearly are not, and so it's only a matter of time before Negan loses his power. So as a result, he doesn't feel that scary, and it's just a case of waiting while they drag out the story some more.

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #170 on: December 07, 2016, 01:55:05 AM »
Yeah I'm not finding Negan very scary at all really, but that's not JDM, it's the writing/production. Part of it, I think, is that we're presumably meant to find it intimidating because of how all-powerful he is. Rick is broken right now and sees no way out but to obey the Saviors, but we the viewer aren't. Since very early on in the season we've seen how Negan gets his power from bullying and intimidation, and while some of the Saviours, I'm sure, are happy, some clearly are not, and so it's only a matter of time before Negan loses his power. So as a result, he doesn't feel that scary, and it's just a case of waiting while they drag out the story some more.

Negan feels like a caricature of a villain pure pantomine, just series of tics - Big smiles, leaning back, quips, rocking on his heels, pacing very slowly with his bat, and so forth.   He's just not very relatable or interesting at the minute.

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #171 on: December 07, 2016, 08:48:42 AM »
Yeah I'm not finding Negan very scary at all really, but that's not JDM, it's the writing/production. Part of it, I think, is that we're presumably meant to find it intimidating because of how all-powerful he is. Rick is broken right now and sees no way out but to obey the Saviors, but we the viewer aren't. Since very early on in the season we've seen how Negan gets his power from bullying and intimidation, and while some of the Saviours, I'm sure, are happy, some clearly are not, and so it's only a matter of time before Negan loses his power. So as a result, he doesn't feel that scary, and it's just a case of waiting while they drag out the story some more.

Negan feels like a caricature of a villain pure pantomine, just series of tics - Big smiles, leaning back, quips, rocking on his heels, pacing very slowly with his bat, and so forth.   He's just not very relatable or interesting at the minute.

I just don't see him as being 'that' bad to where it's unbelievable. I can understand some of the questions surrounding why any of the Saviours just don't take him out...I've stated why I can get past that....but Negan in particular....as revealed in the last episode....is playing a character in front of the rest of the Saviours. He's created a persona and lives up to it whilst in their midst. I think the Negan we saw when it was just him and Carl is who is really is. He's just like Ezekiel in the respect that he's found a persona that works and he's sticking to it.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #172 on: December 11, 2016, 09:35:09 PM »
Another solid episode. Minus the Tara centric episode this season has been great IMO. Loved the Spencer gutting, I liked it in the comic but IMO the show version was done really well and topped the comic version.

Sneak peek of second half looks great.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #173 on: December 11, 2016, 11:10:50 PM »
Probably the best episode since the opener. I'll have to watch again but I thought they were making it look like the guy from the Kingdom who talks to Carol and Morgan was the guy who's boot it was at the ammo fort that Rick and Aaron find.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #174 on: December 12, 2016, 06:31:31 AM »
Probably the best episode since the opener. I'll have to watch again but I thought they were making it look like the guy from the Kingdom who talks to Carol and Morgan was the guy who's boot it was at the ammo fort that Rick and Aaron find.

Interesting. I didn't piece that together. I'll have to take a look at that also.
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