Author Topic: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION  (Read 7670 times)

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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #105 on: November 13, 2016, 12:54:46 PM »
Was Dwight stealing food on the side behind Negan's back when he made that breakfast sandwich?

Sure looked like it. Or, it was showing the 'status' that he has with Negan now?
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Offline masterthes

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #106 on: November 14, 2016, 02:15:22 AM »
Negan totally neutered Rick. He had Lucille the entire episode and Rick had hundreds of opportunities to do him in. Let's say hypothetically, Rick did do it, would the Saviors still be menacing? Would it have been the case if the leader falls, they would withdraw?

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #107 on: November 14, 2016, 05:29:13 PM »
Negan totally neutered Rick. He had Lucille the entire episode and Rick had hundreds of opportunities to do him in. Let's say hypothetically, Rick did do it, would the Saviors still be menacing? Would it have been the case if the leader falls, they would withdraw?

No, they would annihilate all of Alexandria.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #108 on: November 14, 2016, 10:18:55 PM »
IMO Jeffrey Dean Morgan is nailing Portaying Negan. He's doing a great job. Thought this was a solid episode again.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #109 on: November 15, 2016, 12:02:57 PM »
Comic vs Show Talk:

What will disappoint me with this season is if they switch the Carl/Negan relationship that transpires in the comic to Negan and Daryl. That relationship/interaction between Carl and Negan is VITAL IMO to the story....I can't imagine that they'd mess with that but I thought that in the comic last nights episode would have been the instance when Carl hid in the truck and got back to Negans hideout and shot it up? I suppose they still have time and opportunity to make that happen but am just worried they are going to try and switch that arc to being Daryl....and it won't be nearly as interesting if they do.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #110 on: November 15, 2016, 12:23:40 PM »
I've enjoyed all the post headsmash episodes so far, on their own I think they are great. Only complaint is I really wished they did multiple storylines, and were able to keep an even pace during the season.  This is something I've always found an issue with. TWD's season pacing just seems outawhack.
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Offline sneakyblueberry

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #111 on: November 15, 2016, 03:13:16 PM »
I've enjoyed all the post headsmash episodes so far, on their own I think they are great. Only complaint is I really wished they did multiple storylines, and were able to keep an even pace during the season.  This is something I've always found an issue with. TWD's season pacing just seems outawhack.

Big time.  Its really fucking annoying.

Offline Chino

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #112 on: November 16, 2016, 05:51:09 AM »
I've enjoyed all the post headsmash episodes so far, on their own I think they are great. Only complaint is I really wished they did multiple storylines, and were able to keep an even pace during the season.  This is something I've always found an issue with. TWD's season pacing just seems outawhack.

Big time.  Its really fucking annoying.

It's like we're watching two different shows/seasons at once.

Offline Chino

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #113 on: November 16, 2016, 05:53:25 AM »
Negan totally neutered Rick. He had Lucille the entire episode and Rick had hundreds of opportunities to do him in. Let's say hypothetically, Rick did do it, would the Saviors still be menacing? Would it have been the case if the leader falls, they would withdraw?

No, they would annihilate all of Alexandria.

And then what? Victoria and I were talking about this last night. What's their contingency plan and chain of command like? If someone decided to just shoot Negan in the face, and a #2 took over, they aren't going to have the same level respect for (fear of) that person. Not even close. If Negan falls, that entire group falls, and then it collapses into anarchy.

Offline ariich

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #114 on: November 16, 2016, 06:36:51 AM »
Negan totally neutered Rick. He had Lucille the entire episode and Rick had hundreds of opportunities to do him in. Let's say hypothetically, Rick did do it, would the Saviors still be menacing? Would it have been the case if the leader falls, they would withdraw?

No, they would annihilate all of Alexandria.

And then what? Victoria and I were talking about this last night. What's their contingency plan and chain of command like? If someone decided to just shoot Negan in the face, and a #2 took over, they aren't going to have the same level respect for (fear of) that person. Not even close. If Negan falls, that entire group falls, and then it collapses into anarchy.
In fairness, Rick doesn't know that. The conversations between Negan, Dwight and Daryl mean we the viewers know that Negan's hold over the Saviors is based on fear and that if he was taken out there'd probably be a fair number (though certainly not all) who would feel relief. But Rick's never seen that - as far as he can see, they're all totally on the same page.

And as much as JDM's acting is great, I'm not really buying or liking the character. He's just a playground bully and it's pretty irritating.

Offline Chino

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #115 on: November 16, 2016, 06:54:01 AM »
Negan totally neutered Rick. He had Lucille the entire episode and Rick had hundreds of opportunities to do him in. Let's say hypothetically, Rick did do it, would the Saviors still be menacing? Would it have been the case if the leader falls, they would withdraw?

No, they would annihilate all of Alexandria.

And then what? Victoria and I were talking about this last night. What's their contingency plan and chain of command like? If someone decided to just shoot Negan in the face, and a #2 took over, they aren't going to have the same level respect for (fear of) that person. Not even close. If Negan falls, that entire group falls, and then it collapses into anarchy.
In fairness, Rick doesn't know that. The conversations between Negan, Dwight and Daryl mean we the viewers know that Negan's hold over the Saviors is based on fear and that if he was taken out there'd probably be a fair number (though certainly not all) who would feel relief. But Rick's never seen that - as far as he can see, they're all totally on the same page.

And as much as JDM's acting is great, I'm not really buying or liking the character. He's just a playground bully and it's pretty irritating.

No disagreeing there. We weren't discussing why Rick wasn't trying to kill Negan. We were more interested in how Negan's people would react if that were to actually happen. My feelings are exactly the same in regards to Negan. Worst villain yet, and not in a good way.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #116 on: November 16, 2016, 08:20:13 AM »
Man...I just don't see it that way. I think JDM and the character Negan right now are great. Already far and above more interesting than the Governor ever was. I honestly don't get all the hate. I guess it goes back to any of the criticism for this show (or others) and that is expectations. I never expected the TV show to be able to capture Negan perfectly in large part due to the lack of the 'F' word. I knew they'd have to alter that....but I don't think it's hurt at all.

I don't find it difficult to believe that none of Negan's men have tried to kill him because....why would they? Why would they rock the boat that is giving them everything they want? Weapons, food, sex, booze....on and on. They take whatever the F they want when they want. Negan has established himself to them as a leader that provides. I don't get why we'd assume that one of them would want to take him out?

As far as Rick and Co. trying to take him out....I mean geez....give the show a chance to tell the story. If you for a second think that Rick Grimes is going to continue to put his tail between his legs then more power to you but you're sorely mistaken. Whether you agree with the angle TWD is playing right now all they are doing is showing just how big a force Negan and Co. are. It's a pretty important thing to get across. Had they just left this display at one episode everyone would be in an uproar about the show only spending one show displaying Negan's reign and power. TWD is becoming DT.... no win situation no matter what they do with a sect of their 'fans'.

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Offline ariich

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #117 on: November 16, 2016, 10:53:51 AM »
Man...I just don't see it that way. I think JDM and the character Negan right now are great. Already far and above more interesting than the Governor ever was. I honestly don't get all the hate. I guess it goes back to any of the criticism for this show (or others) and that is expectations. I never expected the TV show to be able to capture Negan perfectly in large part due to the lack of the 'F' word. I knew they'd have to alter that....but I don't think it's hurt at all.
I've never read the comics so I didn't have any particular expectations. For all I know, profanities aside this is exactly how he is in the comics. I'm just not (so far) finding his character interesting. The Governor sucked but there were some interesting motivations around his character. Dwight is a bit like that at the moment too. But Negan is so far just a dick.

Quote
I don't find it difficult to believe that none of Negan's men have tried to kill him because....why would they? Why would they rock the boat that is giving them everything they want? Weapons, food, sex, booze....on and on. They take whatever the F they want when they want. Negan has established himself to them as a leader that provides. I don't get why we'd assume that one of them would want to take him out?
Agreed with all  this.

Quote
As far as Rick and Co. trying to take him out....I mean geez....give the show a chance to tell the story. If you for a second think that Rick Grimes is going to continue to put his tail between his legs then more power to you but you're sorely mistaken. Whether you agree with the angle TWD is playing right now all they are doing is showing just how big a force Negan and Co. are. It's a pretty important thing to get across. Had they just left this display at one episode everyone would be in an uproar about the show only spending one show displaying Negan's reign and power. TWD is becoming DT.... no win situation no matter what they do with a sect of their 'fans'.
On the whole I agree with you, but I don't think you need to stoop to using 'fans' in inverted commas. If someone likes the show enough to consider themselves a fan, then they're a fan. I don't pretend to be that as I don't find the show consistently enjoyable enough, but I'm a viewer and I definitely like some of the stuff. Don't see why that should make my opinion any less valid.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #118 on: November 16, 2016, 11:45:39 AM »
arrich.....yours, Chino's.....all opinions are valid. My 'fans' wasn't directed at anyone in particular, especially in this thread. It was a shot at the vast majority of the articles in the internet currently about TWD. It appears to me that in most cases these are critical articles being written by so called fans that are really just exploiting the fanbase of TWD by knowing 'we' will click on the article and read it.....and it's nothing but pointing out what they deem wrong with the show. Hardly a mention of the things that are still cool about it, which there is plenty of.

I agree with the sentiment that the pacing has always been an issue with the show. They don't have an arrangement guru ala Mike Portnoy on staff that is able to take these scenes and stack them up for a more creative story. This single story arc per episode they have going is getting stale yes, but I personally still enjoy the show.

Please don't think I'm trying to pick a fight over TWD or belittle anyone for the shows sake. That's not my intent. Was just trying to defend a show i happen to still like a lot and have a hard time seeing the criticisms being expressed
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Offline ariich

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #119 on: November 16, 2016, 02:03:19 PM »
Fair play, I haven't seen those articles myself - I tend to avoid anything that even vaguely resembles clickbait :lol

And I totally get where you're coming from because I get frustrated when I do see those sorts of articles as well.

Offline soupytwist

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #120 on: November 17, 2016, 02:09:18 AM »
I'm on the Negan is a bit of a letdown side right now.  Someone else said it above, he's just a Bully (a goofy one at that) - he feels more like a henchman than a true big bad.  There doesn't seem to be anything clever or interesting about him, he just bullies and belittles people.    The only one of Negans men we are being shown is Dwight - who seems to be ranked quite high is the hierarchy, but he clearly hates Negan and we were shown Negan belittling him.   So as of yet i'm seeing nothing about him that screams great leader, or inspiring people to follow him.

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #121 on: November 17, 2016, 07:08:52 AM »
I don't find it difficult to believe that none of Negan's men have tried to kill him because....why would they? Why would they rock the boat that is giving them everything they want? Weapons, food, sex, booze....on and on. They take whatever the F they want when they want. Negan has established himself to them as a leader that provides. I don't get why we'd assume that one of them would want to take him out?


Gary, my bro, my buddy. I think I can help you out with why some (most) think the Negan as a leader situation is unconvincing, but I need you to put on your imagination beanie.

Imagine you, Gary, have been swallowed up in the Saviors. Your wife is being held as a harem slave by Negan. Your boys are all dead having been carried away by walkers years ago. You've been through unimaginable pain, years of the roller-coaster of depression, violence, hope and anger yet here you are; a survivor. You've seen Negan smash heads up close, he's personally told you your wife's life depends on your good behavior.

Then.

One day there is a call to arms, the whole clan is to terrorize a new threat and bring them over to the Saviors. You're standing there watching him do his schtick. You've got an automatic weapon in your hands. You're standing 12 yards away. The safety is off...

The problem isn't that there are people who want the perks and are willing to go along. I get that, I really do. The problem is that in a group that size, considering Negan's "management style", that we're expected to believe there isn't one person who would just say (or hadn't already said) fuck it. Even the Governor was smart enough to give the illusion of peace and prosperity.

Offline Chino

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #122 on: November 17, 2016, 07:41:04 AM »
I don't find it difficult to believe that none of Negan's men have tried to kill him because....why would they? Why would they rock the boat that is giving them everything they want? Weapons, food, sex, booze....on and on. They take whatever the F they want when they want. Negan has established himself to them as a leader that provides. I don't get why we'd assume that one of them would want to take him out?


Gary, my bro, my buddy. I think I can help you out with why some (most) think the Negan as a leader situation is unconvincing, but I need you to put on your imagination beanie.

Imagine you, Gary, have been swallowed up in the Saviors. Your wife is being held as a harem slave by Negan. Your boys are all dead having been carried away by walkers years ago. You've been through unimaginable pain, years of the roller-coaster of depression, violence, hope and anger yet here you are; a survivor. You've seen Negan smash heads up close, he's personally told you your wife's life depends on your good behavior.

Then.

One day there is a call to arms, the whole clan is to terrorize a new threat and bring them over to the Saviors. You're standing there watching him do his schtick. You've got an automatic weapon in your hands. You're standing 12 yards away. The safety is off...

The problem isn't that there are people who want the perks and are willing to go along. I get that, I really do. The problem is that in a group that size, considering Negan's "management style", that we're expected to believe there isn't one person who would just say (or hadn't already said) fuck it. Even the Governor was smart enough to give the illusion of peace and prosperity.

This is where my head is at.

"Why would they rock the boat that is giving them everything they want? Weapons, food, sex, booze....on and on. They take whatever the F they want when they want."

That's assuming everyone of of Negan's guys has always thought like or secretly wanted to be a pirate. Maybe that's how Negan hooked them in their most desperate times, when they thought there was no better option, but when they go to places like Alexandria and The Kingdom, do they not see any kind of light? They get no sense of 'maybe we don't have to do this'. Outside of maybe the sex, which we've still seen plenty of, they can have all those things in both Alexandria and The Kingdom without having to be an accessory to head smashing and intimidation.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #123 on: November 17, 2016, 08:08:36 AM »
Brian and Gregg....totally get those points. My larger point is, and what I've been trying to allude to without ruining anything is.......why don't we just let AMC tell the story? I'm certain there's a reason they had an episode where we learned a softer side to Dwight and that he hated/hates Negan....that they've shown his reluctance and shame as he serves Negan. I don't doubt there are others there that feel the same way.

Maybe they just haven't been inspired enough to make the move? Maybe they are waiting for something, maybe they just aren't strong enough to do it themselves but would gladly follow someone who would? I mean, it's been all of three/four days in that story line since Rick and Co. were savaged by Negan? Can we just take a breath and realize that there's no way in  :censored that Rick is going to tolerate that much longer, we've already seen it with the 'careful, the way you're looking at me right now' and the gripping the bat as if to just take Negan out right there? It's not gonna last much longer...even if I weren't a comic book reader I could see that. Once Rick and Co. meet the Kingdom and realize the numbers aren't as bad as he thinks....well then, I think things will begin to change. But to get all bent out of shape because Rick hasn't done something yet only days after watching Glenn and Abraham get their skulls turning into spaghetti is a bit unfair to the characters and writers, because he's acting exactly how he should....and is not showing signs of snapping out of it.

As far as Negan's men not turning on him as a whole...I'll still stick with the theory that the type of men he's surrounded himself with really have no desire to lead, they are fine following and basking in the spoils of plundering. Those aren't bankers and CEO's in his group. They are convicts and criminals who are fine with where they are at in life.
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Offline Chino

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #124 on: November 17, 2016, 08:20:49 AM »
I don't really have any issue with Rick's behavior or reaction to the situation. My only skepticism is with Negan's crew.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #125 on: November 17, 2016, 08:29:47 AM »
I don't really have any issue with Rick's behavior or reaction to the situation. My only skepticism is with Negan's crew.

gotcha. I think we just have different ideas of how they'd behave.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #126 on: November 18, 2016, 11:26:58 AM »
I just want the tiger to kill and eat Negan, but not right away.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #127 on: November 21, 2016, 06:38:53 AM »
I thought this was another solid episode and IMO this season thus far has been great. A lot of tough groundwork that could be difficult to transpose from page to screen has been layed, looking forward to the payoff(s)

Gregory has been cast perfectly and is being nailed by that actor.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #128 on: November 21, 2016, 06:43:47 AM »
I thought that episode was really good.  I like the hilltop, that is the kind of interpersonal drama that the show somehow doesn't seem to have a lot of.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #129 on: November 23, 2016, 12:09:25 PM »
Gregory has been cast perfectly and is being nailed by that actor.
Personally, I'm eagerly anticipating his demise.  Wondering if it'll be at the hands of one of The Saviors or Maggie.

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #130 on: November 23, 2016, 07:02:58 PM »
Gregory has been cast perfectly and is being nailed by that actor.
Personally, I'm eagerly anticipating his demise.  Wondering if it'll be at the hands of one of The Saviors or Maggie.

I hope the story goes exactly as it did in the graphic novel concerning that arc.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #131 on: November 27, 2016, 09:46:53 PM »
Guess we know where Rick and Co. will get re-armed.

If I gave two craps about Tara this episode would have been alright. But I don't see how you can give an entire episode to a third rate character like that. I'm sure they wanted to establish where they can get weapons....but the entirety of content we got from that episode could have been accomplished in 20 minutes.....or at least a side by side with another storyline. By far my least favorite episode of this season, and in recent seasons.
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Offline ChuckSteak

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #132 on: November 28, 2016, 04:26:00 AM »
What a waste of an episode.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #133 on: November 28, 2016, 06:22:05 AM »
I was hoping she would get shot the entire time.

She is also painfully unfunny.  Not sure if it's bad writing or bad acting, but all of those attempts at making light of the situation came off badly.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #134 on: November 28, 2016, 07:34:54 AM »
While I cringed everytime Tara made an attempt at humor, my wife cracked up each time with those quippy one-liners. I'm willing to bet the general audience is more like my wife than me, she's been enjoying all these episodes so far. I personally would just watch at the end of the season in one go but the wife wants company so shrug..

Did anyone else get a deja-vu of Lost with that opening scene?
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Offline soupytwist

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #135 on: November 28, 2016, 07:45:39 AM »
Aside from the opening episode this season has been a letdown.  The shows rigid format of one storyline/perspective per episode is really failing.  Mix up the stories in an episode, cut back from one place to another - this latest episode focused on Tara would have certainly benefitted if it was shared with some Daryl at the Sanctuary or some stuff from The Kingdom, or Alexandra.    At the minute the tone and pacing is all off.

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #136 on: November 28, 2016, 08:02:58 AM »
Aside from the opening episode this season has been a letdown.  The shows rigid format of one storyline/perspective per episode is really failing.  Mix up the stories in an episode, cut back from one place to another - this latest episode focused on Tara would have certainly benefitted if it was shared with some Daryl at the Sanctuary or some stuff from The Kingdom, or Alexandra.    At the minute the tone and pacing is all off.

Totally this. If ever there were a time to cover more than one storyline it was this episode. Tara is not that compelling of a character to carry an episode and the premise behind the episode wasn't interesting enough to carry it either. I've enjoyed every episode this season I her than this one. Just a complete waste of an episode.
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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #137 on: November 28, 2016, 08:15:35 AM »
We're not the only one fed up with these single character storylines, Mike Portnoy tweeted as much

"Ugh...I can't stand these character dedicated @WalkingDead_AMC episodes!!
Waiting to get back to story lines is TORTURE!!! #NeedMyNeganFix"
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Offline Metropolaris

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #138 on: November 28, 2016, 09:14:54 AM »
My thoughts on this episode..

Tara is a character who's been around for 2.5  seasons now and has done literally nothing except crack a joke every now and then and get a girlfriend. She was written out of most of season 6 because the actress was pregnant. I don't think they'll kill her off anytime soon since her girlfriend died not that long ago and I think they'd want to avoid any accusations of homophobia.
Heath is a great character from the comics, but his actor was injured during the filming for last season and thus he was written out of most of the season. Now his actor has several other projects going on, including a leading role in the new 24 series. I don't expect we'll see him ever again, which is a waste of what could have been a good character.
Neither of these characters is engaging enough to lead a whole episode. Especially since we haven't seen either of them since March. I'm sure some people forgot who they were.

What they're doing with this first half of the season is introducing all these other colonies that have been affected by the saviors so that when Rick inevitably rebels against Negan, he won't be alone and the combined forces of Alexandria, Hilltop, The Kingdom, and Oceanside will be a force to be reckoned with. This inevitable war will result in a lot of casualties from all parties involved, so they're trying to get us invested in characters from each colony so that we care when they die.
BUT, that doesn't mean every colony needs a bottle episode. The last 2 episodes could have easily been combined into 1 episode.
Ratings are the lowest they've been since S3. The showrunners have to be aware of that. Enough with the bottle episodes. We're 6 episodes into the season and the main character has only been in 2. That's ridiculous.

The title of next week's episode(Another 90 Minute episode) is "Sing Me a Song". So next week we will definitely get the Carl/Negan interaction from the comics. Which I'm definitely looking forward too.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 09:22:21 AM by Metropolaris »
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Online faizoff

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Re: THE WALKING DEAD - Season 7 - FULL DISCUSSION
« Reply #139 on: November 28, 2016, 09:30:20 AM »
Yeah I realized a while back these would be all setup episodes leading to an eventual confrontation, it has to happen nothing else would make sense. Again not to repeat myself but the show's pacing and editing is almost always way off. The material itself is interesting but apart from the bottle episodes, they just don't seem to ever have the right combination to showcase an interesting story throughout. I personally loved how season 5 was carried out, Beth episodes and all. Sure some of the execution could've been done better but overall I really enjoyed the dynamics they created that season and was very excited for season six as well.
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