Marvel's Movie/TV Universe v2 (SPOILERS)

[Orbert]

Barton was sent to assassinate her, but they formed a friendship and bond instead

Is this MCU canon, Marvel comics canon, both (, neither)?

MCU canon referenced in Avengers. Stated by Natasha.

Thanks.  In that case, I probably knew but already had forgotten that detail.  But apparently it's not a mystery what happened in Budapest, just that some people would like more details.

[Adami]

Honestly, we don't need to see it. Remember when things didn't have to be shown in detail? When we could watch Casablanca without demanding the prequel to perfectly explain everything that movie references as a given?

If Hawkeye isn't in this movie, that's cool. Dude's getting a show. He's supposed to be on house arrest then anyway. At most, it'll be a quick phone call or something. Let Natasha do her own thing. She don't need no man -snaps fingers-.

Looking forward to Taskmaster. Hope they give him personality though and not just another angry baddy. Dude has a fun personality in the comics.

[Dream Team]

Whatever. They’ve been teasing us about their relationship for years. Maybe YOU don’t need to see it, but I think it’d be a great flick. I don’t understand your comment about house arrest. Surely you know the BW movie is set years in the past seeing as how she’s, you know, very dead?

[Adami]

Whatever. They’ve been teasing us about their relationship for years. Maybe YOU don’t need to see it, but I think it’d be a great flick. I don’t understand your comment about house arrest. Surely you know the BW movie is set years in the past seeing as how she’s, you know, very dead?

It’s set between civil war and infinity war. When he was on house arrest. Hence my comment.

[gzarruk]

Whatever. They’ve been teasing us about their relationship for years. Maybe YOU don’t need to see it, but I think it’d be a great flick. I don’t understand your comment about house arrest. Surely you know the BW movie is set years in the past seeing as how she’s, you know, very dead?

It’s set between civil war and infinity war. When he was on house arrest. Hence my comment.

Source?

[Adami]

https://www.digitalspy.com/movies/a28464157/black-widow-movie-timeline-mcu-scarlett-johansson/


When did you guys think it was set?

[Dream Team]

Whatever. They’ve been teasing us about their relationship for years. Maybe YOU don’t need to see it, but I think it’d be a great flick. I don’t understand your comment about house arrest. Surely you know the BW movie is set years in the past seeing as how she’s, you know, very dead?

It’s set between civil war and infinity war. When he was on house arrest. Hence my comment.

Source?

Yeah, thought I heard set in the ‘90s shortly after her red-room graduation.

[gzarruk]

Whatever. They’ve been teasing us about their relationship for years. Maybe YOU don’t need to see it, but I think it’d be a great flick. I don’t understand your comment about house arrest. Surely you know the BW movie is set years in the past seeing as how she’s, you know, very dead?

It’s set between civil war and infinity war. When he was on house arrest. Hence my comment.

Source?

Yeah, thought I heard set in the ‘90s shortly after her red-room graduation.

I heard the same thing, that’s why I was asking

[Lonk]

Well, according to the article, we will learn more about Budapest

Meanwhile, the Black Widow movie will see the superhero in Budapest, a location which has been referenced previously in the MCU.

With the city confirmed for the prequel, it also appears we will learn a bit more about the events of Budapest

[Adami]

So, I've been reflecting on Phase 4, and I think it's actually a very smart move.

No Avengers films. No HUGE event films.

I think, at this point, they can confidently make movies for a phase that aren't all billion dollar explosions at the box office. They can scale back a bit and focus on the characters, instead of the next big thing. They might lose some people, but I'd rather they focus on quality than playing directly to fans who just want big big BIG events and risking lowering quality to meet that.

So I'm happy with Phase 4. I'm sure Phase 5 will have some more big names in it, such as Black Panther, Guardians, etc.

[bosk1]

I'm not so sure that's the best move for an entire "phase."  But I guess time will tell.  But I guess ultimately, they've built up so much goodwill and made so much money that even if all of phase 4 is deemed a "failure" by having only moderate success, they can more than afford to just tread water for awhile and expand the universe while allowing any "Avengers fatigue" to subside before ramping up for the next big thing.

[Adami]

I'm not so sure that's the best move for an entire "phase."  But I guess time will tell.  But I guess ultimately, they've built up so much goodwill and made so much money that even if all of phase 4 is deemed a "failure" by having only moderate success, they can more than afford to just tread water for awhile and expand the universe while allowing any "Avengers fatigue" to subside before ramping up for the next big thing.

Well after Endgame, they can either try to go bigger, or go much smaller. I think any attempt to go bigger would be a failure right now. They have to lay a lot of groundwork for anything bigger to really hit home. I think this is them doing that. Investing in (mostly) new characters to lay new ground before melding it with the surviving older characters in Phase 5.

Maybe it will be a failure, I dunno. But I hope we're not at a point where anything less than Infinity War/Endgame box office is considered a failure. It seems they are changing their goals for this phase and it works just fine.

[bosk1]

I hear you.  And for reasons I've already stated, I can't disagree much.  As I said, I personally am not very excited for most of this phase.  But I'm also perfectly okay with not being very excited for it.

[Adami]

I hear you.  And for reasons I've already stated, I can't disagree much.  As I said, I personally am not very excited for most of this phase.  But I'm also perfectly okay with not being very excited for it.

Totally. I think it's also a nice chance for Marvel to essentially challenge themselves. Not hard to get people excited about a new Avengers or Captain American movie, or even a movie you KNOW will have consequences on the next Avengers movie, you know? But a new Shang Chi movie? Eternals? They gotta put some effort into making these movies good and exciting. They can't rest so much anymore on pure association. I look forward to seeing how they do that.

[bosk1]

Yup.  And also:

They've planted the seeds for some or all of these stories already, so there definitely will be that connective tissue that will likely make these much more appealing once we get trailers and news about the specific stories. 

AND there's also the fact that the present leadership have just shown a knack for good stories and good presentation.  I know I am in a pretty significant majority that was very underwhelmed by the initial announcement of the first Guardians of the Galaxy film.  And look at how that turned out.  With 2 Guardians films in the rearview mirror and appearances in the last 2 Avengers films, the Guardians franchise is perhaps one of the most popular and beloved in the MCU.  Marvel just generally does right by these stories and characters.

[The Walrus]

So, I've been reflecting on Phase 4, and I think it's actually a very smart move.

No Avengers films. No HUGE event films.

I think, at this point, they can confidently make movies for a phase that aren't all billion dollar explosions at the box office. They can scale back a bit and focus on the characters, instead of the next big thing. They might lose some people, but I'd rather they focus on quality than playing directly to fans who just want big big BIG events and risking lowering quality to meet that.

So I'm happy with Phase 4. I'm sure Phase 5 will have some more big names in it, such as Black Panther, Guardians, etc.

I agree. Honestly I didn't even want any Avengers movies for phase 4. To me phase 4 has always been about picking up the pieces in the wake of Thanos and the Infinity War, so I'm very happy they're not shoehorning in massive events, and are giving the universe (multiverse?) some breathing room before bringing in the heavy hitters (X-Men and co.) for another massive arc. So you think Guardians 3 is definitely reserved for phase 5? I really wonder how big a monkey wrench the James Gunn thing threw into the mix; I always assumed Guardians 3 would introduce Adam Warlock, and they'd do that in phase 4 as one of the first big steps towards a massive arc in phase 5. But now... hmm.

[ariich]

I'm not so sure that's the best move for an entire "phase." 

There's no reason to believe that the fully announced films are the entirety of Phase 4. Perfectly possible there's a big event film later in the phase.

[Adami]

I'm not so sure that's the best move for an entire "phase." 

There's no reason to believe that the fully announced films are the entirety of Phase 4. Perfectly possible there's a big event film later in the phase.

Possible, but Kevin said that what was released was the complete Phase 4 line up.

[Podaar]

I was pretty excited to see that Blade logo and to hear that a quality actor like Mahershala Ali was not only on board but actively sought the role. On second thought, I'm wondering how a character like Blade and his universe would dovetail with the MCU, really. I'd also be concerned about how (extra) campy a PG13 Blade movie would be. Without the blood and gore the stories would loose too much of the horror element. Not that they won't do an R rated move, they just might, but again that wouldn't really mesh well with the larger MCU. They must have some idea on how to make it work...I guess I'll just need to have a little faith.

One things for sure, Ali better start weight lifting now and eating a lot of protein. Blade fans expect a certain amount of musculature to the character. I always thought Mike Colter would have made a great Blade but that wouldn't work now that he's associated with Luke Cage.

I'll keep my fingers crossed.

[The Walrus]

What if Blade has no connection to the MCU/MCM? Like Deadpool, kinda? His own standalone thing. Has Marvel ever said they'd do that with their characters? Seems like a perfect time to work on a character who's doing his own thing... unless all of these films are supposed to take place in the same interconnected world.

[King Postwhore]

So, I've been reflecting on Phase 4, and I think it's actually a very smart move.

No Avengers films. No HUGE event films.

I think, at this point, they can confidently make movies for a phase that aren't all billion dollar explosions at the box office. They can scale back a bit and focus on the characters, instead of the next big thing. They might lose some people, but I'd rather they focus on quality than playing directly to fans who just want big big BIG events and risking lowering quality to meet that.

So I'm happy with Phase 4. I'm sure Phase 5 will have some more big names in it, such as Black Panther, Guardians, etc.

It feels like Stage one again.  Building characters, building the stage.  We get to see characters grow again.  I'm down with it.

[bosk1]

I'd also be concerned about how (extra) campy a PG13 Blade movie would be. Without the blood and gore the stories would loose too much of the horror element. Not that they won't do an R rated move, they just might, but again that wouldn't really mesh well with the larger MCU. They must have some idea on how to make it work...I guess I'll just need to have a little faith.

Well, apparently, the Dr. Strange film is supposed to be in the horror genre as well, so it certainly seems like Marvel has a plan for this type/tone of film in its universe.

[ariich]

I'm not so sure that's the best move for an entire "phase." 

There's no reason to believe that the fully announced films are the entirety of Phase 4. Perfectly possible there's a big event film later in the phase.

Possible, but Kevin said that what was released was the complete Phase 4 line up.

I thought that included the ones that were mentioned but didn't have big announcements with logos and release dates etc. Some of those seemed like almost just passing mentions ("and we didn't even have time to talk about Mutants...") so I dunno, I'm not assuming anything at this stage.

[Adami]

I'm not so sure that's the best move for an entire "phase." 

There's no reason to believe that the fully announced films are the entirety of Phase 4. Perfectly possible there's a big event film later in the phase.

Possible, but Kevin said that what was released was the complete Phase 4 line up.

I thought that included the ones that were mentioned but didn't have big announcements with logos and release dates etc. Some of those seemed like almost just passing mentions ("and we didn't even have time to talk about Mutants...") so I dunno, I'm not assuming anything at this stage.

I'm honestly not sure what this means.

The Mutants thing, and the FF and Blade are (as far as I know) not Phase 4 stuff. Maybe Phase 5 or Phase 6.

I think it's safe to assume that what we saw was complete Phase 4 and that they'll use that plus the next two phases to create the big event.

[bosk1]

I'm not so sure that's the best move for an entire "phase." 

There's no reason to believe that the fully announced films are the entirety of Phase 4. Perfectly possible there's a big event film later in the phase.

Possible, but Kevin said that what was released was the complete Phase 4 line up.

I thought that included the ones that were mentioned but didn't have big announcements with logos and release dates etc. Some of those seemed like almost just passing mentions ("and we didn't even have time to talk about Mutants...") so I dunno, I'm not assuming anything at this stage.

I'm honestly not sure what this means.

I think what he means is:  The statement was just vague/imprecise enough that it left room for interpretation as to whether this is a "complete" list, a semi-complete list subject to other known or presently-unknown additions, or something else. 

And that doesn't even take into account that circumstances just sometimes arise that cause plans to change.  Even if it is contemplated right now that what we were told comprises the complete phase 4, things could happen that could cause films to be added or dropped, or for the order to change.  It wouldn't be the first time.

[Adami]

I mean, I don't see how "this is complete" could mean "this isn't complete."

As far as changes go, I totally agree. However, there's a difference between say "Thor's script changed and now it's something else" and "We just randomly decided to make Avengers 5: Galactus eats Earth" and are adding it!

A big Avengers film or event film is not going to be added later unless they are purposefully withholding it.

[ariich]

Only 5 films had release dates, spanning just 2 years. If that's the entirety of phase 4, that's kind of odd.

[Adami]

Only 5 films had release dates, spanning just 2 years. If that's the entirety of phase 4, that's kind of odd.

Yes, however it seems that they are taking a new approach with the Disney + shows. I think that they consider those to be integral parts of the phase, unlike previous shows which were just kind of there and didn't matter at all. They said WandaVision directly informs Dr. Strange 2, etc. So It seems Phase 4 is half movies/half TV.

[ariich]

Could be. Still seems a very short period of time though, only 2 years. I guess time will tell!

[bosk1]

I mean, I don't see how "this is complete" could mean "this isn't complete."

As far as changes go, I totally agree. However, there's a difference between say "Thor's script changed and now it's something else" and "We just randomly decided to make Avengers 5: Galactus eats Earth" and are adding it!

A big Avengers film or event film is not going to be added later unless they are purposefully withholding it.

I'm not talking about changes in script.  I'm talking about the film release schedule being altered, which has happened.  For example, Ant Man was originally supposed to be in phase 1.  Ultron was not supposed to show up on phase 2.  The Eternals were going to be in phase 3.  So was the Inhumans movie.  Spider Man was added in after the fact.  Etc.

Stuff happens.  Things change.  That's life.

But as for your last point, I'm not talking about an Avengers or "big event" film, and I don't think ariich is either.  That's completely irrelevant to whether, by the time we get to the end of phase 4, the list of films/shows is identical to what we have now.

[Adami]

Oh, then I misunderstood. I thought Rich was saying that Marvel could still put more big even films or something in there.

[ariich]

To be clear, I wasn't saying that I think they *will* do that, only that they *could*, either because things change (as bosk says) or because they're holding something back.

Even that is based on Phase 4 lasting longer than two years, as nothing is yet confirmed beyond that. However, if Phase 4 is genuinely that short then I agree it's very unlikely anything would be changed or added at such short notice.

[lordxizor]

Marvel has basically admitted that announcing the two Avengers movies to end phase 3 years in advance was a mistake. I could see there being some sort of big team up movie, whether it's called Avengers or not, to end phase 4 that doesn't get announced for a while.

[Lonk]

Started JJ S3, so far very slow

[Zook]

Something I'd like to see in Phase 4 is more world building, and by that I mean small cameos from other heroes. They don't even have to be speaking parts, just news footage or something. Dr. Strange is watching the news, and there's a report of Spider-man stopping The Kingpin, or Dr. Richards develops such and such. I think that'd be really cool. We've sort of seen it before as easter eggs, but after 10 years and a bunch of solo films that really don't acknowledge other heroes other than name or location drops, it's time to see them interact in the world.