Author Topic: Star Trek: Thread Space 9  (Read 270727 times)

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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #525 on: January 05, 2017, 10:51:45 AM »
Sounds a bit like SONY deleting any vaguely negative comments from the Ghostbusters 2016 trailer but leaving the out and out sexist ones intact.

But that's for a whole 'nother topic for a different thread :biggrin:..A film made purely to gain traction on faux outrage.

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #526 on: January 05, 2017, 10:57:27 AM »
I'm sure James Kerwin and Vic Montegna are loading boxes at the Amazon warehouse to make ends meet. You're allowed to pay yourself a salary in a non-profit. If I recall correctly, Axinar wasn't doing anything lots of other guys weren't doing. At worst they were just doing it on a larger scale.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #527 on: January 05, 2017, 10:59:23 AM »
Star Trek Continues is non-profit and I think they only raised enough to make the episode and thats it. They made their episodes for 1/100th of what Axanar cost.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #528 on: January 05, 2017, 11:18:38 AM »
I'm sure James Kerwin and Vic Montegna are loading boxes at the Amazon warehouse to make ends meet. You're allowed to pay yourself a salary in a non-profit. If I recall correctly, Axinar wasn't doing anything lots of other guys weren't doing. At worst they were just doing it on a larger scale.

They're not a non-profit, in fact the point is they are making a profit. They're an indie film infringing on a studio's IP, and making money from it, none of which they have the right to do to begin with. The fact anyone has been allowed to make fan films and even raise money to make them all of this time has only been at the grace of CBS, who have been much more generous than they ever needed to be. Many other studios literally won't let you make a "fan film" in you backyard with a friend with cardboard cutouts without sending a C&D.

Axanar flaunted that they were using the funds for other means unrelated to the Star Trek fan film, and were publicly complete assholes about Paramount/CBS. No other fan film was dumb enough to do these things. Only a few of them raised big enough money to even be on the radar for these kinds of issues.

Star Trek Continues is legally a non-profit organization that publicly disclosed where all of the funds were going (no salaries) to satisfy CBS's unofficial rule that any money raised must go only into production costs, and were even in communication with CBS behind the scenes to make sure they abided by the rules, and after raising hundreds of thousands through 3 fundraising campaigns, never had a single issue.

There's no basis for lumping any other fan films with the Axanar scumbags.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 11:23:51 AM by BlobVanDam »
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Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #529 on: January 05, 2017, 11:27:01 AM »
But Boo Paramount because Axanar is "Proper Star trek" and Jar Jar Abrams ( oh my sides ) Star trek isn't. :angry: " i want it like TOS or nothing "


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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #530 on: January 05, 2017, 11:46:03 AM »
Axanar Productions is a California registered non-profit organization, and is seeking 501(c)(3) status. It has never charged people to watch their productions, which is the basis of being non-profit in this context. If they're violating their status then they have much bigger concerns than Paramount, as it'll be Sig-carrying goons from the Treasury department knocking down their door.

And I agree that Paramount/CBS has been remarkably generous in granting fair use of it's IP. Part of the problem is that it never made any effort to set guidelines. It has traditionally relied on the time-honored premise "we'll know it when we see it" standard for when something has gone too far. In this case, Axanar produced something that looks professional and the network brass said "aha! there it is!" It's interesting to me that there were no lawsuits, no C&D correspondence and not problem whatsoever until after Prelude came out.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #531 on: January 05, 2017, 08:34:05 PM »
Well I already explained why Prelude/Axanar is the one that ruined it.

There's no way they'd get 501 status. :lol First I've even heard of them trying, probably another attempt at filtering money, or a weak attempt to protect themselves in light of the lawsuit. I mean, they also tried to pitch Axanar to Netflix, so basically they're delusional, and I wouldn't trust anything they say or do. You can't pitch a show you don't have any rights to. :facepalm:

Saw this pop up in my feed today, although nothing really new on the matter.
https://geeknation.com/judge-throws-out-axanars-defense-in-star-trek-copyright-case/

Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #532 on: January 05, 2017, 09:26:01 PM »
My understanding is that the judge "tossing out the defense" was him declining to dismiss the case outright and sending it to a jury. The jury will likely side with P/CBS, but it's not the same as the judge finding them guilty or anything. Merely that they'll have to try and prove it.

As neither of us have looked through their books we're not qualified to say whether or not they're acting as a 501c. Lawyers and accountants will sort that out. As for me, I'm not out to be their champion. My issues are two-fold. One, I really want to see their film. It looks to me far better than what others (including Bad Robot) are doing. Two, you dumping the whole "ruined it for everybody" on them, as I don't think that's really fair. Paramount, as I said, has been very generous, but they've also refused to offer up any ground rules whatsoever. Axanar does the same things that others have done but on a larger scale and P/CBS decides enough is enough. Fine. Then it enacts (frankly Draconian) rules going forward and says it's all Axanar's fault. Well, there is some basis in that, as they were the ones to finally find out where the line was, but castigating them as solely responsible for killing the goose isn't fair. P/CBS has a good deal of responsibility for what happened, yes, in large part because of their vague generosity, and I think it's largely because of the quality of product Axanar seems capable of producing. That makes them buttheads in my book.
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #533 on: January 05, 2017, 09:50:17 PM »
I don't know nearly as much as you two about the subject but I'm curious why you guys care about it at all, we're talking about people who made unauthorized fan fiction and got in trouble for it, is there more to it than that really? Unless what they were doing was exceptionally amazing.
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #534 on: January 05, 2017, 10:35:31 PM »
My understanding is that the judge "tossing out the defense" was him declining to dismiss the case outright and sending it to a jury. The jury will likely side with P/CBS, but it's not the same as the judge finding them guilty or anything. Merely that they'll have to try and prove it.

As neither of us have looked through their books we're not qualified to say whether or not they're acting as a 501c. Lawyers and accountants will sort that out. As for me, I'm not out to be their champion. My issues are two-fold. One, I really want to see their film. It looks to me far better than what others (including Bad Robot) are doing. Two, you dumping the whole "ruined it for everybody" on them, as I don't think that's really fair. Paramount, as I said, has been very generous, but they've also refused to offer up any ground rules whatsoever. Axanar does the same things that others have done but on a larger scale and P/CBS decides enough is enough. Fine. Then it enacts (frankly Draconian) rules going forward and says it's all Axanar's fault. Well, there is some basis in that, as they were the ones to finally find out where the line was, but castigating them as solely responsible for killing the goose isn't fair. P/CBS has a good deal of responsibility for what happened, yes, in large part because of their vague generosity, and I think it's largely because of the quality of product Axanar seems capable of producing. That makes them buttheads in my book.

It had nothing to do with the quality level. Many other fan films have been equal quality, perhaps paid actors aside. That's just the scapegoat story that Axanar has been feeding to the diehards and uneducated to gain support over the evil IP holder. No fan film including Prelude has been taken down.
In response to the lawsuit, CBS/Paramount did officially release their fan film ground rules (which basically kill fan films for good unfortunately). While there were no official rules prior to that, none were really necessary because everyone else had the sense to respect that they were playing in someone else's yard. The grey area started with crowd funding, which CBS looked over carefully on a case by case basis, and the rule was still very well known to the fan films.
It's not rocket science anyway. No rules should have been necessary to tell you "don't raise a million dollars from fans to live off and fund your own business ventures, and then try to pitch our IP to Netflix." How dumb and ignorant do you have to be?
I've followed the fan film community for a while, and Axanar deserves what's coming to them.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 11:28:24 PM by BlobVanDam »
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #535 on: January 06, 2017, 01:05:02 AM »
Yeah there's no way the Axanar crew are in the right - *just because* you prefer what they did to recent Official Star Trek output. . .

It would be like a band calling themselves METALLICA and you siding against Q Prime when they shut them down because you didn't like

Hardwired or Death Magnetic.

:angry: I can't believe they shut down the METALLICA fan band - their album is much better !!


Offline soupytwist

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #536 on: January 06, 2017, 02:07:43 AM »
I'm completely unaware of this fan film stuff.  Is any of it worth watching? 

Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #537 on: January 06, 2017, 02:44:52 AM »
I'm completely unaware of this fan film stuff.  Is any of it worth watching? 

It depends on your tolerance to flat acting and general roughness around the edges, but some of them are worth checking out if you're a big Trek fan. No guarantees though.

There's of course the aforementioned Prelude to Axanar and Star Trek Continues (which has 7 episodes now), and the Star Trek Horizon movie was another very good recent one (by far the weakest acting, but solid on script and effects). I've also seen an episode or two of Star Trek New Voyages which was ok (one even had Takei in it), and there's Star Trek Renegades and Of Gods and Men, both including many Trek actors like Tim Russ, Nichelle Nichols and Walter Koenig and more. Personally I found both of those to be really weak especially given the pedigree, but they're higher profile fan films.
These are all up on Youtube and easy to find if you're curious enough to take a look.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 02:51:11 AM by BlobVanDam »
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #538 on: January 06, 2017, 09:26:48 AM »
My understanding is that the judge "tossing out the defense" was him declining to dismiss the case outright and sending it to a jury. The jury will likely side with P/CBS, but it's not the same as the judge finding them guilty or anything. Merely that they'll have to try and prove it.

As neither of us have looked through their books we're not qualified to say whether or not they're acting as a 501c. Lawyers and accountants will sort that out. As for me, I'm not out to be their champion. My issues are two-fold. One, I really want to see their film. It looks to me far better than what others (including Bad Robot) are doing. Two, you dumping the whole "ruined it for everybody" on them, as I don't think that's really fair. Paramount, as I said, has been very generous, but they've also refused to offer up any ground rules whatsoever. Axanar does the same things that others have done but on a larger scale and P/CBS decides enough is enough. Fine. Then it enacts (frankly Draconian) rules going forward and says it's all Axanar's fault. Well, there is some basis in that, as they were the ones to finally find out where the line was, but castigating them as solely responsible for killing the goose isn't fair. P/CBS has a good deal of responsibility for what happened, yes, in large part because of their vague generosity, and I think it's largely because of the quality of product Axanar seems capable of producing. That makes them buttheads in my book.

It had nothing to do with the quality level. Many other fan films have been equal quality, perhaps paid actors aside. That's just the scapegoat story that Axanar has been feeding to the diehards and uneducated to gain support over the evil IP holder. No fan film including Prelude has been taken down.
In response to the lawsuit, CBS/Paramount did officially release their fan film ground rules (which basically kill fan films for good unfortunately). While there were no official rules prior to that, none were really necessary because everyone else had the sense to respect that they were playing in someone else's yard. The grey area started with crowd funding, which CBS looked over carefully on a case by case basis, and the rule was still very well known to the fan films.
It's not rocket science anyway. No rules should have been necessary to tell you "don't raise a million dollars from fans to live off and fund your own business ventures, and then try to pitch our IP to Netflix." How dumb and ignorant do you have to be?
I've followed the fan film community for a while, and Axanar deserves what's coming to them.
If CBS/P had placed some rules in effect before Axanar would be be in this situation?

The yard analogy is just dandy. "Play in our yard, just be respectful." That's damned courteous. Then somebody has the idea to open up a lemonade stand. "Well, that's alright for now, we'll just see how it goes." Then somebody switches from Country Time to fresh squeezed organic lemonade and raises the price from 5˘ to 25˘. "Alright. Shows over. Everybody get the fuck out of our yard. Trespassers will be shot on sight." Yeah, it's the tasty, price-gouging lemonade guys that crossed the line, but the line was never identified.

I'm not saying don't blame Axanar, they were the final straw. I'm saying that CBS/P deserves plenty of the blame for never offering any guidance. I'm sure you disbelieve every word out of Mr. Axanar's mouth, but his testimony was that they actively sought guidance and TPTB refused to offer any. There's plenty of blame to go around if we're being honest.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #539 on: January 06, 2017, 09:32:23 AM »
I'm completely unaware of this fan film stuff.  Is any of it worth watching?
Continues actually wasn't bad. I found it a little preachy, and most of the fan-made stuff relies too heavily on throw-back references (the return of original characters and plot devices). Still, the stories weren't bad in that and while the acting was pretty rough, there's a familiarity and fondness for the characters that makes it nevertheless endearing. Kirk and Spock are still Kirk and Spock and it's fun to see new stories involving them. Their problem is that it takes 6 months to make an episode.

One of the New Voyages was actually pretty good. Interesting premise following up on The Deadly Years where a 70 year old Walter Koenig returns to play his older counterpart. Most of it was pretty bad, though.

I've tried to watch the fan-films, but they're just far too rough for me to handle. Prelude to Axanar was the first one to actually look like a real, watchable movie.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #540 on: January 06, 2017, 09:45:58 AM »
I don't know nearly as much as you two about the subject but I'm curious why you guys care about it at all, we're talking about people who made unauthorized fan fiction and got in trouble for it, is there more to it than that really? Unless what they were doing was exceptionally amazing.
What they did wasn't unauthorized. Lots of people have made fan produced material. These folks made a 20 minute or so preview of the movie they were planning to make. Paramount/CBS decided that they didn't like their business model and filed suit. Then proceeded to institute new guidelines that effectively kills fan-made stuff altogether. As for the quality, check out one of the Star Trek Continues episodes, some of which aren't bad at all. As I recall, Fairest of them All seemed pretty good, but you and I seem to have different tastes. Maybe Blob could recommend one. Then watch Prelude to Axanar and see for yourself.
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Offline BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #541 on: January 06, 2017, 10:02:30 AM »
I'm not saying don't blame Axanar, they were the final straw. I'm saying that CBS/P deserves plenty of the blame for never offering any guidance. I'm sure you disbelieve every word out of Mr. Axanar's mouth, but his testimony was that they actively sought guidance and TPTB refused to offer any. There's plenty of blame to go around if we're being honest.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out what not to do, rules or not. It was not about degree of raising money. What he did was not in line with what other fan films were doing, nor a mere extrapolation of it. I recall he even has a background in law too? Worst case, he could have followed the lead of other fan films, or asked them, the information was easy to find. Even I knew the deal. I vaguely recall something about his claim of trying to contact anyone being debunked somewhere, but I'd have to find it as this would have been a while ago. Either way, I'm certain it's a lie, as were many of his other claims.
The rules were unofficial for the very reason of lenience, and not having to create legally binding lowest common denominator rules as they were forced to. When everything you're doing is technically illegal, you don't push your luck that far. There's testing the waters, and then there's blatant abuse and exploitation of goodwill.

Axanar were not the straw that broke the camel's back. Axanar was a shotgun to the face of the camel while everyone else was gently trying to load up straw. Official rules or not, embezzling money from fans and publicly biting the hand that feeds you was inexcusable and stupid.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 10:22:45 AM by BlobVanDam »
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #542 on: January 06, 2017, 10:21:57 AM »
Also as I said before - lolz at people siding with Axanar simply because they didn't like the new Star Trek films.

Like them or not - they're still official - and copyright infringement is illegal - no matter if it's " better" or not.

it's not your call.

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #543 on: January 06, 2017, 10:59:56 AM »
Copy/pasting a few tidbits from the documents I read elsewhere-

Quote
Mr. Peters personally profited from Plaintiffs' intellectual property by paying himself with funds raised from consumers of Plaintiffs' intellectual property and by spending tens of thousands of dollars of those funds on his own personal expenses. Mr. Peters used fan-raised funds to pay for the tires on his Lexus, to service his car, to pay for his gas, each and every week for nearly two years, to pay for his girlfriend's gas for the same time period, to pay for two years of personal phone bills for himself, his girlfriend and Robert Meyer Burnett, to pay for his health insurance, his car insurance, his annual AAA memberships, his TSA airport precheck fee, and his personal travel to conventions, both in the United States and internationally.

Mr. Peters also used these funds to pay for tens of thousands of dollars in restaurant meals. Mr. Peters and his girlfriend were provided with debit cards that they used to pay for these expenses from the Axanar Productions account- which account was populated with funds contributed by Star Trek fans.


After the completion and release of this twenty-minute film, Mr. Peters continued to raise money from fans of Plaintiffs' intellectual property, and he paid himself, and his then-girlfriend, tens of thousands of dollars in "salary" ($65,000) in connection with his Axanar project. Mr. Peters also took the money obtained from fans and rented out a studio in Valencia, California. Peters' stated intent in doing so was to create a film studio (using funds from Star Trek fans) that he could utilize in the future to create for-profit projects.


Further, Mr. Peters' company, Propworx, is housed in the studio facility that was rented and built out using funds from Star Trek fans. Propworx has not paid any rent to Axanar Productions for its use of this facility.

Mr. Peters also appears to have attempted to create a business relationship with Netflix and Amazon based on his infringing Star Trek: Axanar project and, although Christian Gossett, the director of Star Trek: Prelude to Axanar, testified that Mr. Peters told him about these meetings, and Mr. Gossett produced a document showing that such meetings occurred, Mr. Peters has not turned over any documents relating to his negotiations with these entities.

Mr. Peters was also fully aware of the infringing nature of his activities, as over the course of several years, Mr. Peters (a trained attorney) repeatedly sent CBS notices informing CBS that Mr. Peters believed that other entities and fan film creators were engaging in "infringing" conduct. Again, Mr. Peters did not turn over these communications in discovery, although CBS did.

After his first deposition, wherein he was examined regarding the use of funds raised for the Axanar project, Mr. Peters altered the financial summary that he had been produced in this case [Exhibit SS] in order to remove all of the personal charges that he was examined about during his initial deposition. Exhibit A (Peters tr. at 394:20-396:7; 398:24-399:10; 401:7-403:5) (confidential document filed under seal) is a true and correct copy of relevant excerpts from the deposition transcript of Alec Peters taken on November 2, 2016.

The altered financial summary created by Mr. Peters after his initial deposition, which he testified he intends to release to the public in order to show how “transparent” Axanar is, does not contain the auto (car) section, meals section, or health insurance section, or any of the detailed expenditures made by Mr. Peters on himself and his girlfriend.

Mr. Burnett testified that Mr. Peters said that he hoped that making Axanar would allow him to work for CBS, and that CBS should let him “run Star Trek.” Exhibit B (Burnett tr. at 217:22-218:7) (confidential document filed under seal) is a true and correct copy of relevant excerpts from the deposition transcript of Robert Meyer Burnett taken on October 11, 2016.

Mr. Gossett similarly testified that Mr. Peters told him that he hoped that, after creating Axanar, CBS would hire Mr. Peters in some capacity. Attached hereto as Exhibit C (Gossett tr. at 19:15-22:20) are true and correct copies of excerpts from the deposition transcript of Christian Gossett taken on October 22, 2016.

Mr. Peters testified that he told Mr. Gossett and Mr. Burnett that he wanted to use the Axanar project in order to make money from CBS.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #544 on: January 06, 2017, 11:14:08 AM »
:rollin :clap: Oh dear oh dear.

My favourite bit : Mr. Peters testified that he told Mr. Gossett and Mr. Burnett that he wanted to use the Axanar project in order to make money from CBS.

Also : :angry: I do this better than you - I'm going to infringe the fuck out of your copyright so hopefully you'll hire me to do it better than you !!!!

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #545 on: January 06, 2017, 12:06:55 PM »
Copy/pasting a few tidbits from the documents I read elsewhere-

Quote
Mr. Peters personally profited from Plaintiffs' intellectual property by paying himself with funds raised from consumers of Plaintiffs' intellectual property and by spending tens of thousands of dollars of those funds on his own personal expenses. Mr. Peters used fan-raised funds to pay for the tires on his Lexus, to service his car, to pay for his gas, each and every week for nearly two years, to pay for his girlfriend's gas for the same time period, to pay for two years of personal phone bills for himself, his girlfriend and Robert Meyer Burnett, to pay for his health insurance, his car insurance, his annual AAA memberships, his TSA airport precheck fee, and his personal travel to conventions, both in the United States and internationally.

Mr. Peters also used these funds to pay for tens of thousands of dollars in restaurant meals. Mr. Peters and his girlfriend were provided with debit cards that they used to pay for these expenses from the Axanar Productions account- which account was populated with funds contributed by Star Trek fans.


After the completion and release of this twenty-minute film, Mr. Peters continued to raise money from fans of Plaintiffs' intellectual property, and he paid himself, and his then-girlfriend, tens of thousands of dollars in "salary" ($65,000) in connection with his Axanar project. Mr. Peters also took the money obtained from fans and rented out a studio in Valencia, California. Peters' stated intent in doing so was to create a film studio (using funds from Star Trek fans) that he could utilize in the future to create for-profit projects.


Further, Mr. Peters' company, Propworx, is housed in the studio facility that was rented and built out using funds from Star Trek fans. Propworx has not paid any rent to Axanar Productions for its use of this facility.

Mr. Peters also appears to have attempted to create a business relationship with Netflix and Amazon based on his infringing Star Trek: Axanar project and, although Christian Gossett, the director of Star Trek: Prelude to Axanar, testified that Mr. Peters told him about these meetings, and Mr. Gossett produced a document showing that such meetings occurred, Mr. Peters has not turned over any documents relating to his negotiations with these entities.

Mr. Peters was also fully aware of the infringing nature of his activities, as over the course of several years, Mr. Peters (a trained attorney) repeatedly sent CBS notices informing CBS that Mr. Peters believed that other entities and fan film creators were engaging in "infringing" conduct. Again, Mr. Peters did not turn over these communications in discovery, although CBS did.

After his first deposition, wherein he was examined regarding the use of funds raised for the Axanar project, Mr. Peters altered the financial summary that he had been produced in this case [Exhibit SS] in order to remove all of the personal charges that he was examined about during his initial deposition. Exhibit A (Peters tr. at 394:20-396:7; 398:24-399:10; 401:7-403:5) (confidential document filed under seal) is a true and correct copy of relevant excerpts from the deposition transcript of Alec Peters taken on November 2, 2016.

The altered financial summary created by Mr. Peters after his initial deposition, which he testified he intends to release to the public in order to show how “transparent” Axanar is, does not contain the auto (car) section, meals section, or health insurance section, or any of the detailed expenditures made by Mr. Peters on himself and his girlfriend.

Mr. Burnett testified that Mr. Peters said that he hoped that making Axanar would allow him to work for CBS, and that CBS should let him “run Star Trek.” Exhibit B (Burnett tr. at 217:22-218:7) (confidential document filed under seal) is a true and correct copy of relevant excerpts from the deposition transcript of Robert Meyer Burnett taken on October 11, 2016.

Mr. Gossett similarly testified that Mr. Peters told him that he hoped that, after creating Axanar, CBS would hire Mr. Peters in some capacity. Attached hereto as Exhibit C (Gossett tr. at 19:15-22:20) are true and correct copies of excerpts from the deposition transcript of Christian Gossett taken on October 22, 2016.

Mr. Peters testified that he told Mr. Gossett and Mr. Burnett that he wanted to use the Axanar project in order to make money from CBS.
For one thing, those are allegations (apparently taken from briefs), not facts. For another, they don't necessarily mean what you think they do. In fact, assuming they're correct, some of them actually work in Peters's favor. Lastly, some of what you take as proof of profiteering is actually in accordance with standard business practices, including those of 501c corps. Without looking at their books it's impossible for us to know, well, me at least, whether a company car or meal allowances are disallowed.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #546 on: January 06, 2017, 12:09:05 PM »
Also as I said before - lolz at people siding with Axanar simply because they didn't like the new Star Trek films.
I feel safe in assuming that this is directed at me. I'm not siding with Axanar because I like what they did better. I've already said that they're likely to lose this. I'm saying that what they did isn't necessarily what Blob thinks it is, and that Paramount/CBS own some of the responsibility for it.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #547 on: January 06, 2017, 01:26:57 PM »
No it wasn't at you - i've seen people elsewhere saying stuff like " Into Darkness sucks - Axanar is much better but Paramount are trying to shut them down

coz they're making BETTER star trek ::) "

Stuff like that. Really childish. Even if Axanar was The Wrath of Khan - It's copyright infringement...

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #548 on: January 06, 2017, 02:15:38 PM »
I'm not the kind of Star Trek fan who hates Star Wars just because...

I loved Force Awakens.

If we compare JJ films... Force Awakens was a far better SW film than Into Darkness was a ST film.

BUT - where Into Darkness was mostly an original movie and borrowed one scene from The Wrath Of Khan -

Force Awakens was almost A New Hope verbatim.


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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #549 on: January 06, 2017, 03:32:17 PM »
BUT - where Into Darkness was mostly an original movie and borrowed one scene from The Wrath Of Khan -

There was a lot more "borrowing" going on than that one scene. I've only seen the movie a few times, but off the top of my head:

1. The tribbles.
2. Carol Markus and her father being shoe-horned into the plot for no apparent good reason other than the fact that she was involved with Kirk in the original movies.

I'm absolutely certain that if I sat through the movie again that I would find many more things without putting in much of an effort to pay close attention.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #550 on: January 06, 2017, 03:37:20 PM »
I specifically meant scenes from The Wrath Of Khan.

Tribbles are a Star Trek trope. I don't mind Marcus being there as she is an established ST character and you never see how her and Kirk met in TOS.

Force Awakens is almost beat-for-beat A New Hope.

But it's still a better SW movie than Into Darkness is a ST movie but Into Darkness is far far away from being The Wrath of Khan remake everyone says.

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #551 on: January 06, 2017, 05:41:34 PM »
I specifically meant scenes from The Wrath Of Khan.

Tribbles are a Star Trek trope. I don't mind Marcus being there as she is an established ST character and you never see how her and Kirk met in TOS.

Force Awakens is almost beat-for-beat A New Hope.

But it's still a better SW movie than Into Darkness is a ST movie but Into Darkness is far far away from being The Wrath of Khan remake everyone says.

It may have been a good idea if they did try a more direct remake. And the reason that I mentioned those two things is that they felt like they were forced. I do understand (and agree with you) that they were fair game as far as being brought up as plot points. It just didn't feel natural to me. To be fair, I could very well be guilty of nit-picking. While I'm nowhere on the level of fandom that some of the guys are that frequent this thread, I'm still fairly bitchy about my trek  :biggrin:
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #552 on: January 06, 2017, 05:45:33 PM »
If I was passionate about making a Star Trek project with some ideas I have but I wasn't hired CBS/P, I'd just do it and not call it Star Trek.
Case in point: Mass Effect heh
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #553 on: January 07, 2017, 07:22:25 AM »
So I'm watching Voyager episode Time and Again on BBC America and it never ceases to amaze me that the captain and the officers always go off the ship when in reality life they would ever leave the ship.

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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #554 on: January 10, 2017, 09:56:04 AM »
Regarding Star Trek actors...

I wonder if on one hand they're glad to be instantly recognisable and remembered for one thing they did or on the other hand - do they know they'll only ever be associated with that one role

and will never get any decent work doing anything else ?

I see pics of the cast of Trek on the "Star trek Cruise" and I think : That's all you'll ever be...I understand why someone like Chris Ecclestone quit DW after 1 series so he wouldn't just be "Doctor Who"

for the rest of his career.

And of course - for someone like Brent Spiner - who literally has never been in anything else successful - it's an easy way to make a quick dollar. Appearing at conventions and trotting out

his Patrick Stewart impression *again*.

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #555 on: January 10, 2017, 10:09:08 AM »
ALSO :


Read a comment on a Trek site that basically says that The Final Frontier is a better movie than Star Trek Beyond because it's "proper" Star Trek.

I guess that means that Star Trek Nemesis is proper Star Trek coz it has the Next Gen crew and Beyond isn't even though it was written and directed by huge Trek fans.

Sorry to break it to you but you can't pick and choose just because you don't enjoy the movies.


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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #556 on: January 10, 2017, 11:57:58 AM »
Wife out of the house, I sat down to watch The Final Frontier last night.  I haven't seen this one in a long time but it was actually on recently and I recorded it.

I couldn't finish it.  Wow.  I remember liking this one, I remember specific things about it that I like, but I'd forgotten about those opening minutes (Kirk free climbing a fucking mountain?  Spock saving him two feet before he splatters his brains all over the rocks?  Please.) and the horrible acting.  Laurence Luckinbill as Sybok was great, but damn, David Warner (who I know is popular but I've never liked) the Romulan lady and the fat Klingon dude, they were horrible.

My son joined me just as it was starting, so I took a minute to explain that people slag this one but I think it's great.  Then I sat there embarassed for the next ten minutes, he ended up not sticking around, and I just switched it off after a while.  Ugh.  Memory really is selective.

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #557 on: January 10, 2017, 12:37:34 PM »
Beyond is so much better than Final Frontier and Insurrection - both of which are really underwhelming Trek movies.

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #558 on: January 10, 2017, 01:07:35 PM »
I think I'd put Insertection above Beyond.

It's not great, but at least I knew why the bad guy was doing bad guy things.
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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #559 on: January 10, 2017, 01:16:54 PM »
Beyond is so much better than Final Frontier and Insurrection - both of which are really underwhelming Trek movies.

Final Frontier is Shatner's ego project, and a trainwreck at the same time.
Insurrection is watchable. Generations and Nemesis are garbage.

Beyond is easily better than all of the above.