Author Topic: Star Trek: Thread Space 9  (Read 14116 times)

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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #595 on: January 11, 2017, 03:46:03 PM »
Not for me. The Final Frontier will always be the 2nd worst movie in the franchise.

For most people it's THE worst. What do you think is worse ? Insurrection ? Motion Picture ( my 4th favourite probably )

Offline kingshmegland

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #596 on: January 11, 2017, 03:47:11 PM »
Motion picture.   It just drags way too much.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #597 on: January 11, 2017, 03:48:47 PM »
I disagree :rollin

But I'm not gonna start on that now.

Offline kingshmegland

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #598 on: January 11, 2017, 03:58:43 PM »
Well I love dialog in movies but it has to be interesting. I was never pulled in.
I don't like country music, but I don't mean to denigrate those who do. And for the people who like country music, denigrate means 'put down'. - Bob Newhart

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Offline Adami

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #599 on: January 11, 2017, 06:37:01 PM »
I really don't want this thread to turn into ranking the movies.....again, but if we're talking TFF, I'd probably put it 3rd worst, maybe tied for 3rd worst. But there are definitely two worse movies.
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Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #600 on: January 11, 2017, 07:09:17 PM »
I haven't seen TFF in a long time but I really don't like the TMP. It was so slow.

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #601 on: January 11, 2017, 08:10:12 PM »
Not for me. The Final Frontier will always be the 2nd worst movie in the franchise.

For most people it's THE worst. What do you think is worse ? Insurrection ? Motion Picture ( my 4th favourite probably )

Into Darkness and Nemesis are much worse, TMP is a strong contender too. TFF is bad, but still highly enjoyable for me at least.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #602 on: January 11, 2017, 08:13:18 PM »
Not for me. The Final Frontier will always be the 2nd worst movie in the franchise.

For most people it's THE worst. What do you think is worse ? Insurrection ? Motion Picture ( my 4th favourite probably )

Into Darkness and Nemesis are much worse, TMP is a strong contender too. TFF is bad, but still highly enjoyable for me at least.

Yup, those are two lower for me. I think I'd tie Final Frontier and ST09.
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Offline soupytwist

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #603 on: January 12, 2017, 01:55:24 AM »
Insurrections is the worst by miles.  It's like a long episode (and a poor episode at that) that has it's morales completely screwed.

Anyone heard the theories that Cumberbatch was originally cast as Gary Mitchell?  This is a good read about it...

http://www.denofgeek.com/us/movies/star-trek/257390/star-trek-was-cumberbatch-supposed-to-be-gary-mitchell

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #604 on: January 12, 2017, 08:29:28 AM »
The Final Frontier is certainly not good, but it has a few good/memorable parts.  Which is not something I can say about The Motion Picture, or Nemesis, or Insurrection.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #605 on: January 12, 2017, 08:37:01 AM »
I put TMP in the middle of the pack. I like the conflict between Kirk and Captain Chester. While the first 15 minutes is super slow, I view it as a overture anyway. Between the title theme, the Klingon theme and the Enterprise theme, it's essentially just 3 pretty good music videos with nothing relevant taking place. After that it's a reasonable story, just in a very different style. This only applies to the director's cut, or whatever they called the re-release. The studio cut was a trainwreck.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #606 on: January 12, 2017, 08:46:53 AM »
I understand that TMP is not very fast paced but the last time I watched it - which was recently - I was surprised how engrossed I was and how quickly they got to VGER.

It's not PAINFULLY SLOW.

it's not like one of those tedious 1960s sci fi movies which takes place almost exclusively in a bunker with screens and lights and beeping and people in coats talking.


Offline soupytwist

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #607 on: January 12, 2017, 09:23:04 AM »
So Chakotay (Cue Pan Pipe music).   What a shit character.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #608 on: January 12, 2017, 09:29:48 AM »
Most of Voyager's bridge staff are cardboard. I do think VOY may be the better show compared to TNG and is saved by The EMH and 7 of 9.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #609 on: January 12, 2017, 09:56:09 AM »
Most of Voyager's bridge staff are cardboard. I do think VOY may be the better show compared to TNG and is saved by The EMH and 7 of 9.
I believe that's a shift in your opinions. A couple of us have been saying it for years.

And yeah, Chakotay sucked. They should have kept that guy that wouldn't shake Paris's hand. The idea of merging the federation with the Maquis was a good one, but as they abandoned it pretty early on they should have just stuck with interesting characters. It's all the more annoying because the idea of a spiritual guy, in this case an Indian, was a good one and something we haven't seen in ST. This particular Indian just sucked.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #610 on: January 12, 2017, 10:30:49 AM »
Barto I recently binge watched all of TNG and then all of VOY.

TNGs first two seasons are hard to get thru.  VOY is more consistent throughout.


I still need to binge watch DS9 and ENT

Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #611 on: January 13, 2017, 01:17:49 PM »
That consistency is really what it comes down to. TNG has higher highs than VOY, but over the long run I don't think it averages out as well. I generally tend to assume that all series will be 20% shite, 60% pretty standard, and 20% great. The amount that those move around honestly doesn't change a whole lot between the series. Maybe one breaks down 15/60/25 and another 25/60/15. As a rule, there's pretty close to fifty percent of each series that I'll watch when I'm in the mood to watch ST. The other half only comes up every ten years or so. I think TNG is slightly less than that. DS9 will be slightly higher than that. TOS and VOY right around that.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #612 on: January 13, 2017, 04:52:57 PM »
They should just give Nick Meyer whatever he wants to direct Trek 4.

He has proven he can make big cinematic movies for pennies. Plus him and Pegg and Jung can write it.




Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #613 on: January 13, 2017, 08:24:50 PM »
That consistency is really what it comes down to. TNG has higher highs than VOY, but over the long run I don't think it averages out as well. I generally tend to assume that all series will be 20% shite, 60% pretty standard, and 20% great. The amount that those move around honestly doesn't change a whole lot between the series. Maybe one breaks down 15/60/25 and another 25/60/15. As a rule, there's pretty close to fifty percent of each series that I'll watch when I'm in the mood to watch ST. The other half only comes up every ten years or so. I think TNG is slightly less than that. DS9 will be slightly higher than that. TOS and VOY right around that.

I completely agree that TNG had higher highs than VOY. The perfect example of this is the series finals. To say that VOY's series final was disappointing would be a huge understatement. Meanwhile, TNG's final was extremely well done. Also, VOY's Kazon(spelling?) arc was a great idea, but it dragged on about twice as long as it should have. TNG never had that problem throughout its run.

I know that I've made this point before, and I hope that you guys forgive me for sounding like a broken record. TNG deserves extra consideration as far as the goofiness/camp of a lot of its early seasons goes. It's the series that stabilized the entire ST universe. In turn this allowed for VOY and DS9 to be made. Yes, the movies with the TOS cast also did this to an extent, but as has been mentioned by others many times before, ST is first and foremost a television entity. The average viewer that wanted to delve into the ST universe could easily start with TNG and branch out from that point. That same viewer could be very casual about TOS in their viewing and not really miss a step.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #614 on: January 14, 2017, 02:56:54 AM »
Thanks for reminding me that Endgame was a piss poor conclusion compared to All Good Things.

AGT is how all grand finales should be done. It was like a TV movie.

Offline Polarbear

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #615 on: January 16, 2017, 11:40:12 AM »
Thanks for reminding me that Endgame was a piss poor conclusion compared to All Good Things.

AGT is how all grand finales should be done. It was like a TV movie.

Agreed. I like Voyager probably more than most people, but it deserved a better ending than "Endgame".

Offline El Barto

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #616 on: January 16, 2017, 12:00:13 PM »
Given the constraints of television and the non-serialized nature of VOY, I've yet to hear what they should have done differently for the finale. AGT was very definitely the better finale, but all they were doing was suggesting that life goes on and nothing changes aboard the ship. They simply had to crank out an excellent two-hour episode. It's like a show that just "ends" when the network cancels it unexpectedly. VOY was more like MASH where everybody's life fundamentally changes at the end. Much trickier to do, particularly when you don't have DS9's serialized format allowing you to sew up loose ends over the final few weeks. I know BVD wanted some closure and resolution, which I can certainly understand. I'm just not sure how you manage that without adding a third hour to it. As is so often the case, if you can't show people what they want to see it's best to just let them use their imaginations to fill in the blanks.
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Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #617 on: January 16, 2017, 02:51:08 PM »
I've sometimes thought the same because I was underwhelmed with the VOY finale but then again I wonder if they did, say, make a third hour and gave an insight to what everyone was doing post voyager I wonder if it'd raise more questions such as "why the hell would he/she be doing xyz?"

Offline Orbert

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #618 on: January 16, 2017, 03:53:07 PM »
It just seemed so abrupt.  After seven years with only two goals in mind (stay alive, get home), they'd finally done it.  Even pulled off a last-minute shortcut of sorts.  And then... that's it.  They all lived happily ever after, The End.

I'm not sure what else they could have done, but it seemed to call for something.  Maybe not a "Where are they now?" set months or years later, but at least the reception when they made it back or something.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #619 on: January 16, 2017, 03:58:13 PM »
Scenes of welcome home party over the end credits... SOMETHING.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #620 on: January 16, 2017, 05:18:24 PM »
I do think I would've liked a welcome home party type thing

Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #621 on: January 16, 2017, 09:23:59 PM »
I have no idea what they should have done different in the VOY final. The only thing that I can say for certain is that it seemed very underwhelming as is. It's a shame because I really enjoyed the series for the most part. There are a few episodes that come to mind that I really didn't like (The Thaw is absolutely horrible, and might be worse than any other episode in any other ST series), but I really enjoyed the Borg story arc.  7of9 was a great character, and that's not just because she was hot. The doctor managed to be an insufferable asshole, but I found myself liking him at the same time.
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Offline Adami

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #622 on: January 16, 2017, 09:27:10 PM »
What do you do? You spend 30 minutes or more on what the experience is of leaving the ship that has been home for the last 7 years. Is home what they imagined it would be? Did they romanticize it too much? Have things changed since they left? What kind of lives are they returning to? What is it like for the Maquis, are they welcomed back? What does the Doctor do, stay on the ship or start a life as the first hologram to do so?

Lots of options.

Yes, while the show was more episodic in nature, the idea of them being lost from home was not and that is the story like that needed emotional resolution. What is home? Is it earth, or Voyager?
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Online BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #623 on: January 16, 2017, 09:49:01 PM »
As a standalone story, I think Endgame was quite a good episode, but as a final episode, I really wanted that closure.

Maybe If they'd cut down the scope of the episode (drop the future scenes and imply the necessary bits through dialogue), dropping Chakotay being with 7 of 9, and then structuring it more like What You Leave Behind so there was time for every character to have some closure returning home.

I just really wanted to see Harry Kim return home only to find that his parents had gotten over his supposed death years ago and sold all of his stuff and rented out his room to a family of Mexicans.
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Offline PowerSlave

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #624 on: January 16, 2017, 09:54:26 PM »
I just really wanted to see Harry Kim return home only to find that his parents had gotten over his supposed death years ago and sold all of his stuff and rented out his room to a family of Mexicans.

Something like that could have spawned the first Star Trek themed sitcom spinoff series. That is if you don't count season 4 of ENT.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #625 on: January 17, 2017, 03:22:35 PM »
A Harry Kim starring Curb Your Enthusiasm.

Offline soupytwist

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #626 on: January 18, 2017, 12:23:30 AM »
I wonder if Harry would have to explain to 'his' parents he's not actually their Harry, he died, but don't worry I'm another Harry from a parallel universe and you won't notice the difference because all Harry Kims no matter what weird and strange universe they are from are still the same dull as fuck ensigns.

Offline Adami

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #627 on: January 18, 2017, 12:25:24 AM »
I wonder if Harry would have to explain to 'his' parents he's not actually their Harry, he died, but don't worry I'm another Harry from a parallel universe and you won't notice the difference because all Harry Kims no matter what weird and strange universe they are from are still the same dull as fuck ensigns.

Was it a parallel universe?

I could have sworn Voyager got split in two for a short amount of time and he's the lone survivor of his ship. It's also possible he's the real Harry Kim, and the rest of the crew are the doubles.
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Online BlobVanDam

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #628 on: January 18, 2017, 12:58:31 AM »
Yeah, Voyager got duplicated by some spacey thing, and they were slightly out of phase with each other.
Unless there was also another episode. I'm sure all Harry Kims are the same anyway.
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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #629 on: January 18, 2017, 11:28:58 AM »
https://twitter.com/startrekcbs/status/821779806148706304

James Frain will play Sarek in Star Trek Discovery.




He has a young Mark Lenard kinda thing goin' on.