Star Trek: Thread Space 9

[Kotowboy]

Because it is.

It's certainly better written and shows more regard to the source material

So it is 2017.

Star Trek The Next Generation's 30th anniversary year !!

It's odd that it follows Star Trek's 50th the very next year.

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[soupytwist]

So it is 2017.

Star Trek The Next Generation's 30th anniversary year !!

It's odd that it follows Star Trek's 50th the very next year.

In many ways TNG seems more dated than TOS.

[BlobVanDam]

TNG is obviously an old show, and the first couple of seasons in particular are very dated, but overall I don't think it compares. TOS is so very '60s, not just in look and style, but also it's attitudes.

[Kotowboy]

What's that TNG Episode ? A Matter of Honour ?

Horrible. it's like they tried to re-create the feel of the original show in the mid 80s.

How Picard ever let Tasha fight to the death is beyond me...

( inb4 - he wanted her to die obvs...)

[soupytwist]

TNG is obviously an old show, and the first couple of seasons in particular are very dated, but overall I don't think it compares. TOS is so very '60s, not just in look and style, but also it's attitudes.

The 80's were very PC.  A fucking Counsellor on in the crew, and on the bridge.  It was all very touchy-feely, annoying prime directives to be obeyed, meeting must be had before any action.    Sure the effects and technology looks better, but i'd disagree with attitudes - I think the more carefree TOS has dated better than the mollycoddling TOS.    Oh and Wesley.....

[BlobVanDam]

TNG is obviously an old show, and the first couple of seasons in particular are very dated, but overall I don't think it compares. TOS is so very '60s, not just in look and style, but also it's attitudes.

The 80's were very PC.  A fucking Counsellor on in the crew, and on the bridge.  It was all very touchy-feely, annoying prime directives to be obeyed, meeting must be had before any action.    Sure the effects and technology looks better, but i'd disagree with attitudes - I think the more carefree TOS has dated better than the mollycoddling TOS.    Oh and Wesley.....

Today is even more PC. TNG got that direction right. The narrow minded macho attitude of TOS is archaic by today's standards.

And uh let's not mention Wesley.

[soupytwist]

TNG is obviously an old show, and the first couple of seasons in particular are very dated, but overall I don't think it compares. TOS is so very '60s, not just in look and style, but also it's attitudes.

The 80's were very PC.  A fucking Counsellor on in the crew, and on the bridge.  It was all very touchy-feely, annoying prime directives to be obeyed, meeting must be had before any action.    Sure the effects and technology looks better, but i'd disagree with attitudes - I think the more carefree TOS has dated better than the mollycoddling TOS.    Oh and Wesley.....

Today is even more PC. TNG got that direction right. The narrow minded macho attitude of TOS is archaic by today's standards.

And uh let's not mention Wesley.

Today is more PC in some regards I agree but that hasn't bled into TV as much as it did in the 80's where even the cartoons ended with characters talking about the morale of the episode (I'm looking at you He-Man!).   There is much more anarchy in TV land now, you wouldn't get a Breaking Bad in the 80's!

[BlobVanDam]

Today is more PC in some regards I agree but that hasn't bled into TV as much as it did in the 80's where even the cartoons ended with characters talking about the morale of the episode (I'm looking at you He-Man!).   There is much more anarchy in TV land now, you wouldn't get a Breaking Bad in the 80's!

Oh I was comparing to real life, not comparing to other TV shows. Although both shows pale in comparison to what you can get away with now. It was edgy to show Kirk sitting at the edge of a bed putting his boots back on. Different times!

I hope the new series can take the opportunity to push boundaries a bit, and not just for pandering to be PC.

[Kotowboy]

and not just for pandering to be PC.

All i care about. A gay character ! A lesbian ! A trans character !

Just for the sake of it.

[BlobVanDam]

and not just for pandering to be PC.

All i care about. A gay character ! A lesbian ! A trans character !

Just for the sake of it.

In principle, I'm glad they're including a gay character, and I think it's overdue to be directly addressed. But I just hope it's not just a token thing, and I hope they actually explore it through some alien cultures. There's unexplored ground there if they actually have some balls.

[Kotowboy]

I've always remarked that they've never had an out Gay character. I think they've implied it but never addressed it head on.

Like that dude in They Most Toys who was super campy.

[BlobVanDam]

You mean the main guy? I don't think he was supposed to be gay, implied or otherwise.

[Kotowboy]

No but that's as close as they got... campy as hell.

[BlobVanDam]

In that case, I have my doubts about Trelane.

[hefdaddy42]

Started what will be an extremely occasional watch-through of Deep Space Nine yesterday with "Emissary".  Not bad, especially for a pilot episode.

[BlobVanDam]

I think it's really solid for a pilot episode, despite the usual teething problems.

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to it.  I didn't watch that show from the beginning, only in later years, so I am looking forward to learning more about all of it.

However, it will definitely be occasional, when I have spare time and in-between other shows I am watching.

[El Barto]

In many ways TNG seems more dated than TOS.

I certainly agree, based on the attitudes you and Blob refer to. Self-interest and conflict are still very real things. The TOS had these but were able to keep them from being problematic because they were exceptional people. By TNG they had just been bred out of them. I suppose if you live in Norway then it might look more familiar and modern, but here in the US we're all TOS era people.

[Kotowboy]

I think it's really solid for a pilot episode, despite the usual teething problems.

But My God - Avery Brooks acting is so bad.

[Polarbear]

I think it's really solid for a pilot episode, despite the usual teething problems.

But My God - Avery Brooks acting is so bad.

I have no issues with Brooks acting, And i'd say Emissary is the best pilot in the Trek Franchise.

The pilot episodes for the other series, are decent to awful. Caretaker for Voyager, is actually my second favorite pilot episode in the franchise

[BlobVanDam]

I think it's really solid for a pilot episode, despite the usual teething problems.

But My God - Avery Brooks acting is so bad.

I have no issues with Brooks acting, And i'd say Emissary is the best pilot in the Trek Franchise.

The pilot episodes for the other series, are decent to awful. Caretaker for Voyager, is actually my second favorite pilot episode in the franchise

Ditto. Decent standalone episode. Encounter at Farpoint is a trainwreck. The other two are incredibly average at best.

[Progmetty]

I'm behind again, let me pen down some feedback before I completely forget:
The Tholian Web - Decent episode, I remember being aggravated at how much McCoy disrespected Spock as captain, pretty much everyone disrespected Spock as a captain and this isn't the first time this happens but it's the shittiest. McCoy's sure got a lot of opinions that opposes Spock rudely even though McCoy is not even next in line of succession for the con.
Plato's Stepchildren - c'mon now, laughed a lot, silly and enjoyable.
Wink of an Eye - Shit shit shit this was a good episode, such a cool premise! I could poke a couple of gigantic holes in the execution of the premise but it's a cool one nonetheless. The main hole being how much faster Scalosian's accelerated existence was than the Enterprise crew, it was so much faster they should have easily finished what they were set out to do even with Kirk's shenanigans. Think of this, they were moving so fast they couldn't be seen!
"I found it an accelerating experience "Spock

[BlobVanDam]

Most episodes of shows dealing with time dilation effects have issues with the differences of speed. Wink of an Eye was the worst offender of any I've seen though. A cool idea, but not particularly well executed or memorable.

[Adami]

I haven't seen the episode (or maybe I have, I dunno) but that sounds a lot like that one Voyager episode.

[BlobVanDam]

I haven't seen the episode (or maybe I have, I dunno) but that sounds a lot like that one Voyager episode.

That would be Blink of an Eye (which was incidentally originally going to be titled Wink of an Eye, but renamed to avoid sharing the same name).
Same basic concept, although very different stories. I think the Voyager episode is much better, and I liked that they showed it over such a long period of the culture's history.

[Progmetty]

Looking forward to that Voyager episode you guys are talking about.
Contuining to catch up on notes, TNG:
When the Bough Breaks - Children.. unbefuckinlievable. I knew from the pilot their were entire families on the Enterprise and Wesley is a constant reminder that in my head that "there's children here, the Enterprise is never really in danger, Star Fleet wouldn't let children on a ship they know might encounter fatal problems! I try to ignore that though cause otherwise there'd be no excitement or sense of danger whatsoever. But this episode was like, well there's the children, lotsa children heh
I really didn't like this episode for the children and for the weak draggy plot. But it brought to mind an episode from TOS that I don't think I discussed here, And the Children Shall Lead, which I liked.
Coming of Age - D'oh on Wesley's B story. The main story though with the investigation of Picard seemed cool until it really came to nothing at all. Meh episode.
Heart of Glory - All right finally some Worf exposition! I've been waiting for an episode like that.
I like it, so Worf is constantly suppressing his Klingon nature, which is to always be in battle whether there's a cause or not heh. And it's a real struggle for him, especially around other Klingons. We also learn that there is no other Klingons serving in Star Fleet and that his situation was brought on by special circumstances, pretty cool.
I loved his interactions with the other Klingons, the "death scream" was kinda chilling.
I look forward to more Worf, he's the coolest character on TNG so far. Data a close second.
I can't yet decide if it's the characters or the actors but Troi and Crusher are just awful and to a lesser extent Riker. Yar is bad too but she's had like 3 scenes in the whole season where she actually spoke a full sentence.
The Arsenal of Freedom - Eh.. another cool premise with the planet that deals in weapons destroying itself but that's about it, nothing else about this episode is memorable.
Symbiosis - A commentary on the pharmaceutical industry? Not sure but I liked the plot and the resolve, it had my attention all the way through, aside from the shitty acting from the guest stars.
The Mission Log podcast I listen to never reveals spoilers but they pointed out that Yar waived to the camera goodbye in one scene of Symbiosis, so now I know she dies the next episode.
4 episodes to the end of season 1 of TNG, that went by relatively fast, I thought.
And 12 episodes to the end of TOS season 3  , at least I got the movies to look forward to.
And I'll probably go back in a year or less and rewatch the whole thing in production order this time.

[El Barto]

McCoy was a real asshole in Tholian Web, and my problem with it was that he was consistently very wrong. Even when Spock follows his advice if it doesn't work out McCoy chews him out about it. Nevertheless I always found it a great episode.

As opposed to Plato's Stepchildren which I always despised. Ditto with When the Bough Breaks.

Heart of Glory was good, but Worf's got a long way to go. Unfortunately the death scream seems to get forgotten. Doesn't come up much anymore. Interestingly, Worf and Michael Dorn are responsible for really fleshing out the Klingons. Over TNG and DS9 the Klingon mythos becomes a major, integral thing. Yet Worf comes out looking like a real candy-ass sometimes. I guess it's important for his half-human character, but you see him with his brother and think "why couldn't we have gotten that guy instead?"

Always dug the Arsenal of Freedom. Though the B story with LaForge and that stupidly assholish engineer was pretty bad. Too much melodrama, poorly done.

Symbiosis was one of my least favorites out of the whole thing. Rather than the pharmaceutical industry I see it as an overly preachy "don't do drugs, kids" after-school special.

[Kotowboy]

If I was ever lucky enough to be in a Trek episode or movie - i'd LOVE to play a Vulcan.

[soupytwist]

Symbiosis was one of my least favorites out of the whole thing. Rather than the pharmaceutical industry I see it as an overly preachy "don't do drugs, kids" after-school special.

Is that the episode (recalling vague memories here) where some other kids try to get Wesley to take drugs and he keeps asking dumb questions like 'why do you take drugs?'.   The was a horrible yet funny scene that's always stuck with me (and why TNG has dated worse than TOS!)

[Kotowboy]

Also in other news - A Judge has denied AXANAR the fair use defence.

Fuck them. Star Trek Continues was going fine til they came along and robbed everyone.

[El Barto]

Legally it's most likely the right decision. Doesn't change the fact that Paramount is behaving like a butthead because somebody put out a better product.

[Orbert]

Heart of Glory was good, but Worf's got a long way to go. Unfortunately the death scream seems to get forgotten. Doesn't come up much anymore. Interestingly, Worf and Michael Dorn are responsible for really fleshing out the Klingons. Over TNG and DS9 the Klingon mythos becomes a major, integral thing. Yet Worf comes out looking like a real candy-ass sometimes. I guess it's important for his half-human character, but you see him with his brother and think "why couldn't we have gotten that guy instead?"

Worf wasn't half-human.  He and his brother Kurn are both full-blooded Klingons, but Worf was raised by humans.  I believe his foster parents were vaguely aware of some Klingon culture and tried to preserve it for him, but Worf was basically raised with human values and sensibilities.  So yeah, a total candy-ass to any other Klingon.

They used Worf to explore Klingon culture the same way they used Spock in TOS to explore Vulcans.  Spock was half human and always tried to be "as Vulcan as he could".  It wasn't until the movies when he found actual peace and accepted both sides of his divided nature.  The problem (if you think about it, which most people don't) is that the premise doesn't actually make a lot of sense.  We learn that Vulcans aren't devoid of emotion; they have emotion, but have learned to suppress it.  Since Spock was raised Vulcan, he should have the same background and thus act just as Vulcan as any full-blooded Vulcan, unless Vulcans have an innately superior ability to suppress emotion.  I suppose that's possible, an inherent trait just like their superior mental capabilities.

Worf was raised human, but always tried to embrace his Klingon side, digging into the culture and history at every opportunity.  The problem Worf faced was that Klingon culture is largely incompatible with human (and Federation) culture.  For example, Klingons have a code of honor that allows for killing someone over certain insults and other infractions; the Federation tends to frown upon atomizing someone with a phaser for insulting your mother.

[BlobVanDam]

Legally it's most likely the right decision. Doesn't change the fact that Paramount is behaving like a butthead because somebody put out a better product.

No, they're suing their asses because they very blatantly abused the Star Trek IP for their own profit, and pissed in the pool for everyone else who played by Paramount/CBS's incredibly generous and lenient rules on fan films. Unfortunately Axanar have now ruined it for everyone. They had to make examples of them.

It was shown in the court documents that the $1m+ dollars they raised was going towards the creator paying himself and his girl a salary, paying his own rent and car etc, paying for his own other projects, and also selling merch that violated Star Trek's copyright. The dude has a history of shady dealings and has filed bankruptcy several times to avoid debts, although that won't work in this case. The dude's going to get his ass reamed very hard on this one. His defense has been a joke too. I can't believe any lawyer was silly enough to attach their name to this. They even tried to plead parody at one point, after first trying to claim Axanar had nothing to do with Trek at all.

[Kotowboy]

How can Star Trek Axanar have nothing to do with Star Trek when you've got the guy from Enterprise reprising his role?


Also RE : putting out a better product. Copyright is still copyright.

[BlobVanDam]

How can Star Trek Axanar have nothing to do with Star Trek when you've got the guy from Enterprise reprising his role?

Nothing about their defense had any merit to it. They tried to claim it was a mockumentary style parody despite being very clearly serious.

They've also been force refunding people on Kickstarter who made comments they considered remotely negative (ie. the truth) so those people could no longer comment on them.