Star Trek: Thread Space 9

[Progmetty]

Speaking of Nazi stuff; Patterns of Force from TOS..
Boy over the years I've seen my fair share of dumb stuff that had Nazi Germany forced onto it, usually cause the uniforms are way too cool but they make up some ridiculous reasoning for the premise, this one takes the cake, or at least top 5 on the "Silly Nazi Germany handling in media" list heh
To be honest there might be a dark political message underneath, or at least that's what I got. Which is that if you want a community to live in perfect harmony and order you gotta resort to fascism, that's basically professor John Gill's line of thinking in this episode. Kirk and Spock say that it's a bad idea but they don't offer an alternative. The alternative is probably something like the regime that governs the federation on Star Trek since it's supposed to be a depiction of advanced human beings that have risen above pity conflict and racism thus turning efforts to scientific advancements that make the world of Star Trek, but we don't really know how they made that work initially, hence the fiction.
Funny thing is that one the same day I saw that episode, I saw an Archer episode where he gets brought on to a movie set to protect a movie star and the movie is set in the 40's, he goes "Man, it really looks like the '40s. This is weird, right? Like the time Star Trek went to Chicago. Or Nazi Germany, for whatever idiot reason"

[BlobVanDam]

There were many TOS episodes like that where it didn't feel at all like a legitimate believable alien planet, they just used the concept to visit any random scenario, whether it was a planet that was fighting over the US constitution, the right to worship Jesus, or planets that are suspiciously identical to some part of Earth history like WW2 Germany and ancient Rome.
Basically, it was an excuse to raid the costume department and use existing sets to cheap out on making an episode. "Hey, they have these Nazi outfits, let's write an episode about a Nazi planet!"

That said, Spock dressed up as a Nazi amuses me greatly.

[Progmetty]

I loved the ancient Rome one tbh, I forget it's name, the premise worked and it had a good underlining theme.
But I might disagree with you Blob on the "legitimate believable alien planet" point, some of the examples you mentioned are indeed weak but it's because the episode itself had bad writing . They have established at one point, I'll look it up if you don't know what I'm talking about, that some brilliant aliens have distributed humanoids -who presumably all come from the same place- on various uninhabited planets a long time ago and I had concluded that this is how we get the planets with humans living in different parts of Earth history.. I'm sorta okay with that concept. That wasn't the case with Patterns of Force though, this one was more of a prime directive violation problem but it was poorly written.
I'm not sure if I made my point there but it's 3am and I'm pretty beat heh

[BlobVanDam]

Hm, I don't recall TOS mentioning a general explanation for humans being placed on these planets on a grand scale. TOS didn't generally care about that kind of continuity. The individual episodes probably had their own flimsy explanations, none of which I even recall.
 
TNG had an awful episode about some god-like aliens creating humanoid races with some garbage about a program encoded into their DNA that any random tricorder could run. But that came much later, and doesn't account for this case. Either that, or you're getting confused with Stargate?

There's nothing they could have done with the writing to make those premises more plausible. At their very foundation they were silly. But that's half of the appeal of the show!

[Orbert]

It was definitely Star Trek of one flavor or another that had the beings who "seeded" humanoids all over the galaxy.  That was the explanation for why everywhere we go, the dominant life form is nearly always humanoid.  At least bipedal chordates.  Put some prosthetics on the faces, there you go.

It was way late and several dollars short, but it was the explanation we got, and I thought it was amusing that they did it at all.  Not a bad idea, really, but to do it so late in the game, the script needed to be a bit stronger.  I seem to think it was TNG, but maybe it was Voyager.

[BlobVanDam]

As I said, I think the episode that's being referenced is the TNG one (The Chase, had to look it up). Bit of a garbage episode, and while it explains aliens looking humanoid, it doesn't explain all the TOS planets being based on Earth's history.

[El Barto]

Haha yeah. I like that the super Aryan planet was so much fun that people there ran everywhere, nobody walks, they just run because fun.

I can just imagine Hitler watching that episode and jerking off while pretending that Crusher was Jewish and then right before he finishes, they don't kill him and he gets angry and starts the holocaust as a result.

Yea, TNG caused the holocaust!

And in your professional opinion, what does that tell you about yourself? 

[El Barto]

While the underlying premise was weak, I thought The Chase was pretty enjoyable. I liked having all of the various factions involved, and of course the scene with Data and the unruly Klingon.

As for aliens seeding the galaxy, nothing jumps out at me from TNG, though The Chase would certainly retcon it.

[Progmetty]

Hm, I don't recall TOS mentioning a general explanation for humans being placed on these planets on a grand scale. TOS didn't generally care about that kind of continuity. The individual episodes probably had their own flimsy explanations, none of which I even recall.

I found it, it was Return To Tomorrow. You're probably right about them not caring about continuity but I personally found this episode to shed some light to the humanoid planets with random or alternate takes on Earth history.
From Return to Tomorrow:

SARGON: A body much as yours, my children, although our minds were infinitely greater.
KIRK: That's twice you've referred to us as my children.
SARGON: Because it is possible you are our descendants, Captain Kirk. Six thousand centuries ago, our vessels were colonising this galaxy, just as your own starships have now begun to explore that vastness. As you now leave your own seed on distant planets, so we left our seed behind us. Perhaps your own legends of an Adam and an Eve were two of our travellers.
MULHALL: Our beliefs and our studies indicate that life on our planet, Earth, evolved independently.
SPOCK: That would tend, however, to explain certain elements of Vulcan prehistory.
SARGON: In either case, I do not know. It was so long ago, and the records of our travels were lost in the cataclysm which we loosened upon ourselves.

That's what I was thinking.
I didn't see The Chase yet from TNG.
 

[BlobVanDam]

I don't take that convo as having any greater implications beyond that episode, just serving the purposes of the story.
And as I said earlier, it still does nothing to explain the problem with many of the planets they visited. Spreading humans half a million years ago doesn't begin to explain the planets I mentioned, it would only explain the suspiciously human appearance, which is mostly an accepted contrivance of this kind of scifi anyway.

[Kotowboy]

Code of Honour from TNG season 1 is absolute rubbish. Horrifically bad episode. It felt like a TOS leftover.

[El Barto]

I don't take that convo as having any greater implications beyond that episode, just serving the purposes of the story.
And as I said earlier, it still does nothing to explain the problem with many of the planets they visited. Spreading humans half a million years ago doesn't begin to explain the planets I mentioned, it would only explain the suspiciously human appearance, which is mostly an accepted contrivance of this kind of scifi anyway.

Why is Sargon's explanation a meaningless plot contrivance and The Chase not?

[BlobVanDam]

I don't take that convo as having any greater implications beyond that episode, just serving the purposes of the story.
And as I said earlier, it still does nothing to explain the problem with many of the planets they visited. Spreading humans half a million years ago doesn't begin to explain the planets I mentioned, it would only explain the suspiciously human appearance, which is mostly an accepted contrivance of this kind of scifi anyway.

Why is Sargon's explanation a meaningless plot contrivance and The Chase not?

I don't recall arguing that the one in The Chase wasn't. When I mentioned it earlier, I didn't mean to endorse it as a better explanation, although it was presented more definitively than the "maybe" scenario in the TOS episode.
One of the reasons I disliked The Chase is because of the major implications it would have, for the sake of a ridiculous episode.

[Dream Team]

Well Kirk certainly spread his seed on many planets.

[ReaperKK]

Code of Honour from TNG season 1 is absolute rubbish. Horrifically bad episode. It felt like a TOS leftover.

I always thought the first season of TNG was weak. To me it seemed like a show that was trying to find it's footing.

Who knows, I may change my mind when I get to TNG. I always hated TOS but I'm making my way through it now and I'm loving it.

[Progmetty]

I'm only half way through season one of TNG and I'd say TOS is much more enjoyable to watch and I think there's little chance I'll change my mind about that as I advance through the seasons cause the likability of the TNG cast and characters is no where near as good as their TOS counterparts.

[Adami]

I'm only half way through season one of TNG and I'd say TOS is much more enjoyable to watch and I think there's little chance I'll change my mind about that as I advance through the seasons cause the likability of the TNG cast and characters is no where near as good as their TOS counterparts.

You and El Barto are going to get along really well.

[BlobVanDam]

The first two seasons of TNG are weak as shit, but after that the show improves dramatically. TOS managed to find its feet by the middle of the first season.

[El Barto]

The first two seasons of TNG are weak as shit, but after that the show improves dramatically.

the likability of the TNG cast and characters is no where near as good as their TOS counterparts.

Both of these statements are absolutely correct. I agree with Metty about which is the better show, largely for the reason he gave, but the quality of TNG at least makes it a ballgame.

[PowerSlave]

I spent the last couple of months watching DS9, again. For any of you guys that are watching the series for the first time, definitely give this one a try. Definitely the best star trek series of all.

[soupytwist]

The first two seasons of TNG are weak as shit, but after that the show improves dramatically.

the likability of the TNG cast and characters is no where near as good as their TOS counterparts.

Both of these statements are absolutely correct. I agree with Metty about which is the better show, largely for the reason he gave, but the quality of TNG at least makes it a ballgame.

Rewatching both shows in this day and age TNG can feel more dated than TOS in terms of story telling and in particularly character attitudes.

The first two seasons of TNG are weak as shit, but after that the show improves dramatically. TOS managed to find its feet by the middle of the first season.

True.  Although it does drop the ball again in the final season which is full of really stupid or really boring episodes.

I spent the last couple of months watching DS9, again. For any of you guys that are watching the series for the first time, definitely give this one a try. Definitely the best star trek series of all.

Yeah it's a good show.  The big issue is Sisko - he's a hard sell as the lead character and Captain as he's no Kirk/Picard and Brookes acting doesn't help (random bouts of overacting, in an otherwise bland performance).

[King Postwhore]

I was fine with Sisko. That series is so damn strong.  I liked that he had a chip on his shoulder as a person in power.  To see them put the space station back together physically and emotionally and then the war was so damn strong.

[BlobVanDam]

Sisko was awesome.

[Kotowboy]

Code of Honour from TNG season 1 is absolute rubbish. Horrifically bad episode. It felt like a TOS leftover.

I always thought the first season of TNG was weak. To me it seemed like a show that was trying to find it's footing.

Who knows, I may change my mind when I get to TNG. I always hated TOS but I'm making my way through it now and I'm loving it.

You may have to put up with it for the first season. S2 isn't quite as bad. S3 onwards is gold though.

[ReaperKK]

Sisko was awesome.

I think Sisko is my favorite, Janeway held that title for a long time but I think that's because Voyager was the first series I fell in love with, especially because I watched the series as it was live on TV.

The first two seasons of TNG are weak as shit, but after that the show improves dramatically. TOS managed to find its feet by the middle of the first season.

The first season is so bad, Tasha Yar was so awful

[Kotowboy]

As with Tasha, When Kes left Voyager - that show improved drastically too. It was obvious why they chose Jeri Ryan...But she was a great actress as well I think.

There was something about Jennifer Lien's voice that made it sound like she ADR'd every single line she said.

Or that there was a really powerful condenser mic *just* out of shot.

[hefdaddy42]

It was obvious why they chose Jeri Ryan

Why?

[Kotowboy]

iCandy.

Just like T'Pol.

[King Postwhore]

Problem is she's a good actress.  So I got From Beyond today and it came with a Starfleet pin!

[Kotowboy]

Problem is she's a good actress.  So I got From Beyond today and it came with a Starfleet pin!

Why would this come with a Starfleet Pin ?

[King Postwhore]

Lol BEYOND!!  LOL  That is a cool movie.

[Kotowboy]

Watching " Trials And Tribble-ations ".

[BlobVanDam]

Good way to celebrate its 20th anniversary....... of the 30th anniversary.
That episode is such a great companion to The Trouble With Tribbles. They did an impressive job with the effects for the era.

[El Barto]

I thought it was more clever than impressive. VOY did the same thing, and because of crappy writing it fell far short. DS9 took a light-hearted approach to match the episode and hit it out of the park. VOY took the serious approach, which might have worked, and then book-ended it around a crappy Vulcan mind-meld story for poor results.

[BlobVanDam]

Voyager's anniversary episode was no comparison. It was mostly a contrived way to squeeze Takei in there since he wasn't in Trials and Tribble-ations / Trouble with Tribbles, and turned out very average. That was early S3, so they were just coming out of the worst era of the show. The only appeal was the nostalgia of old cast members, and as you said, they took a more serious approach, so it didn't have the fun factor of DS9's episode.
Trials and Tribble-ations was actually the first episode I ever saw of DS9. I figured it would be a good gateway episode to getting into the show, and it worked.