Star Trek: Thread Space 9

[BlobVanDam]

Oh no, it was massively dumb.
Besides, it's more excusable for a short lived 1960s scifi TV show to do something silly, than for a big budget modern Hollywood movie. The JJ universe in general is plagued with this kind of stuff.

[soupytwist]

Oh no, it was massively dumb.
Besides, it's more excusable for a short lived 1960s scifi TV show to do something silly, than for a big budget modern Hollywood movie. The JJ universe in general is plagued with this kind of stuff.

Star Trek in general is full of that kind off stuff (that's part of its charm!).  The much loved Voyage Home has one of the ridiculous plots ever.....well until the next film where they photon torpedoed God in the face   

[BlobVanDam]

Big dumb Hollywood action movie plots are not part of the charm of Star Trek for me, sorry. This is why the series have always been infinitely superior to the films, even the older ones.

[soupytwist]

Big dumb Hollywood action movie plots are not part of the charm of Star Trek for me, sorry. This is why the series have always been infinitely superior to the films, even the older ones.

That's fair enough, we differ there.  I'd put Wrath of Khan and First Contact on a par with the very best episodes of their respective shows.

[BlobVanDam]

Oh don't get me wrong, I love TWOK and FC as scifi movies (probably my favourite Trek movies too), but the movies just don't really scratch that Trek itch, or fulfill Roddenberry's vision for the most part. It's hard to make a movie that lines up with Trek values while also making money for a general movie-going audience (and when Roddenberry tried, we ended up with TMP ). Probably the only Trek movies that I'd say try and manage it somewhat successfully are TVH and TUC. But classic Trek isn't really compatible with the big bad guy thing, and it's not what I expect or want from a Trek series. The shows should be smarter than that.

Speaking of which, I'll hopefully be seeing the anniversary screening of TWOK in a week. Never seen it at the cinema of course, since I wasn't born when it came out!

[King Postwhore]

Speaking of which, I'll hopefully be seeing the anniversary screening of TWOK in a week. Never seen it at the cinema of course, since I wasn't born when it came out!

Phasers on Kill

[BlobVanDam]

Speaking of which, I'll hopefully be seeing the anniversary screening of TWOK in a week. Never seen it at the cinema of course, since I wasn't born when it came out!

Phasers on Kill

Why you wanna do that? Because I'm seeing TWOK, or because I'm that much younger than you?

[DougMasters]

Big dumb Hollywood action movie plots are not part of the charm of Star Trek for me, sorry. This is why the series have always been infinitely superior to the films, even the older ones.

That's fair enough, we differ there.  I'd put Wrath of Khan and First Contact on a par with the very best episodes of their respective shows.

I'd include Undiscovered Country in that as well, for me personally.

[King Postwhore]

Speaking of which, I'll hopefully be seeing the anniversary screening of TWOK in a week. Never seen it at the cinema of course, since I wasn't born when it came out!

Phasers on Kill

For making me feel old you taHqeq!

Why you wanna do that? Because I'm seeing TWOK, or because I'm that much younger than you?

[Grappler]

* The worst part in ST09 for me is the coincidence of Kirk just happening across prime Spock!

I loved that.  Kirk and Spock were butting heads so severely up until that point, so it was nice to see the older Spock give him some advice and tell him that they become very good friends and that he needs Spock in his life and vice versa.  It was a good way to communicate that element (since it wasn't going to develop naturally based on how each character was relating to the other) and give Leonard Nimoy a cameo and remain very important to the Kirk/Spock relationship.

I also agree with the idea that having to subscribe to CBS All Access to watch the new show is extortion.  I receive my CBS affiliate through my streaming package, so I'm not going to pay extra for one show.  I only watch one other CBS show (MacGyver) so it's not worth it to me.

[BlobVanDam]

* The worst part in ST09 for me is the coincidence of Kirk just happening across prime Spock!

I loved that.  Kirk and Spock were butting heads so severely up until that point, so it was nice to see the older Spock give him some advice and tell him that they become very good friends and that he needs Spock in his life and vice versa.  It was a good way to communicate that element (since it wasn't going to develop naturally based on how each character was relating to the other) and give Leonard Nimoy a cameo and remain very important to the Kirk/Spock relationship.

It was also super duper contrived that he happened to get jettisoned in that exact same area of space, land on the same planet (or moon or whatever it was), and happened to be within walking distance and stumble across him. But that's typical JJ story telling for you.

[DougMasters]

William and I did our first episode of our Discovery podcast, we'll be doing this weekly along with everything else.

If anyone is interested take a listen

Itunes
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/geek-u.s.a.-nerd-tastic-podcast/id1179864086?mt=2

Soundcloud
https://soundcloud.com/geek-usa/episodexxstar-trek-discovery-pt1

[BlobVanDam]

Episode 3 of STD is just making me angry from start to finish. Every single character is a total bitch, the main character is an unlikeable asshole who acts nothing like she was raised Vulcan, nothing about this resembles Star Trek, and this garbage would be completely unrecognizable to Gene Roddenberry and his vision. My brain can't even shut off and pretend this is connected to the prime timeline or TOS in any way. Even as a prequel to the JJ films it's pointless so far. The episode was full of hacky dialogue, empty "Lost" style story-telling, surface level literary references in an attempt to appear intelligent, gah, it's so bad.

Shuttles shouldn't be able to go to warp.
Why is there a random tribble? Does it serve any purpose beyond blind fan service to the people who accept the rest of this rubbish? Why has it not multiplied and taken over the ship? Maybe they're going to use its magical blood to heal everyone from death.
Why are they making a series about a bullshit propulsion system we know doesn't exist in future?

I really tried to give this a fair chance, but it's literal AIDS.

[El Barto]

Don't mince words, Blob, what do you really think?

[Polarbear]

Wow, that bad?

Read some other reviews out of curiosity, and they are generally positive again. For the record i still haven't seen the pilot, so i'm not in the position to judge.

The ratings have been pretty good also, so i think we should brace for STD season 2.

[Adami]

Still can't watch it, but here's what I've heard from the critics I generally trust.

People who know nothing but the JJ movies seem to think it's good popcorn entertainment.

People who really like ST are pretty insulted by the whole thing.

Of course there are obvious exceptions. I'm sure there's a few ST fans in this thread alone who absolutely adore STD.

[BlobVanDam]

Still can't watch it, but here's what I've heard from the critics I generally trust.

People who know nothing but the JJ movies seem to think it's good popcorn entertainment.

People who really like ST are pretty insulted by the whole thing.

Of course there are obvious exceptions. I'm sure there's a few ST fans in this thread alone who absolutely adore STD.

I think as far as generalizations go, that's about right, and of course there are exceptions on both sides. I've seen life time fans who are enjoying STD so far (dare I say some of the older crowd aren't quite as picky with their entertainment), and maybe there are JJ fans who don't think it has enough explosions or something.
If this was just a new generic scifi drama series, it's passable enough as a poor man's BSG I suppose, and if they just admitted it was JJ universe, maybe I could tolerate the setting, but as prime universe Star Trek, it's impossibly jarring to try and reconcile this with anything we've seen from the first 40 years of the franchise which this claims to connect to.

Don't mince words, Blob, what do you really think?

I only wish you were suffering through this too, for support.

[soupytwist]

Ah damn.  I go to Den of Geek and they've given the latest episode a 4.5/5 (and they were mixed on the pilot).  And now I come here and it's getting shit on!   

I'll watch tonight and see.

[DougMasters]

Still can't watch it, but here's what I've heard from the critics I generally trust.

People who know nothing but the JJ movies seem to think it's good popcorn entertainment.

People who really like ST are pretty insulted by the whole thing.

Of course there are obvious exceptions. I'm sure there's a few ST fans in this thread alone who absolutely adore STD.

I think as far as generalizations go, that's about right, and of course there are exceptions on both sides. I've seen life time fans who are enjoying STD so far (dare I say some of the older crowd aren't quite as picky with their entertainment), and maybe there are JJ fans who don't think it has enough explosions or something.
If this was just a new generic scifi drama series, it's passable enough as a poor man's BSG I suppose, and if they just admitted it was JJ universe, maybe I could tolerate the setting, but as prime universe Star Trek, it's impossibly jarring to try and reconcile this with anything we've seen from the first 40 years of the franchise which this claims to connect to.

Don't mince words, Blob, what do you really think?

I only wish you were suffering through this too, for support.

I was not a fan of JJ trek and I thought this was reallllllllly good.

[soupytwist]

I kind off liked it too.  As for the tech issues in the time period, I'm just going for Time Travel explanation.  Time Travel happens all the time in the Star Trek universe - via Wormholes, Transporter Malfunction, Time Warps, Temporal Rifts, Slingshoting around the Sun, Subspace Corridors, Guardians of Forever portals!   And they all exist in a universe where the Q reside - a race who can change reality with the click of a finger.  If you take all that as Cannon then it's fairly easy to see how fucked up the time line/universe can become

[noxon]

I've liked the three episodes of Discovery I've seen so far. I've chosen to ignore the canon difficulties and to watch the show on its own premises. To be fair - I'd probably be more annoyed if they restricted the technology to stuff shown in TOS, as the technologial development in our own time over these 50 years have far surpassed the imagination of the original creators so it makes sense to have it updated. Just doesnt make sense that screen technology would revert to CRT screens when we know stuff like OLED exists...

As for the plot - I did enjoy the fact that the first officer decided that her logical conclusion - attack first - would override the established protocol. Looks like this season will be a redemption story, which is fine. Its also very ballsy of them to do a complete pilot episode without even featuring the ship and crew of the series itself. I thought it worked pretty well. Didnt hate the look of the klingon, but i felt they spoke a bit awkwardly. Didnt feel fluid enough.

Looking forward to seeing more.

(for the record - I own all of star trek on blu-ray and DVD)

[abydos]

How sad is it that the best episode so far is the least Trekky episode out of the three? Nothing felt like Star Trek, from the characters and their behaviour, to the whole setting and the gore. And at that, it was still quite flat and quite cliche.
As for the whole spores thing, we know it's not gonna work, don't we? Unless they are willing to ignore decades and hundreds of episodes of Star Trek. Michael is a few episodes away from becoming a perfect Mary Sue, ala Star Wars.

I wish her new roommate was the main character.

[BlobVanDam]

As for the whole spores thing, we know it's not gonna work, don't we? Unless they are willing to ignore decades and hundreds of episodes of Star Trek.

Why not? That's exactly what they've done so far.

[El Barto]

For the folks watching this, keep in mind that they froze production after 3 episodes to retool the thing. You guys see if you notice a difference come ep4.

[BlobVanDam]

I thought they just changed writing staff after 3/4 episodes, but I do recall there some change at that point. It will be interesting to see how much of a noticeable difference there is, although it's a moot point for me, as the show is basically irredeemable at this point.

[jammindude]

I thought they just changed writing staff after 3/4 episodes, but I do recall there some change at that point. It will be interesting to see how much of a noticeable difference there is, although it's a moot point for me, as the show is basically irredeemable at this point.

I heard a rumor that this entire first part is taking place in "the mirror universe".   IF that were true, they could almost completely sweep these first few episodes under the rug.....and as long as it was important to developing the introduction of the characters, they wouldn't lose anything. 

I'm a bit hopeful....but trust me, I'm as skeptical as you are Blob.    OTOH, I also feel like nearly anything is possible with enough talent.   IF they really hated these first few ideas, fired everyone, then said, how can we get this back on track without scraping everything we've already shot....   Someone with enough talent could come up with something.

(I realize I've exaggerated some points of this hypothetical situation....but my point is the same)

[BlobVanDam]

This is the first I've heard of rumours of this taking place in the mirror universe, and it wouldn't be consistent with the prime universe timeline in any case, since they've already mentioned the Federation, not the Terran Empire. That sounds baseless to me.
And there's still nothing that would validate the negligent deviation of every established technology and style and attitude, besides them finally admitting this is JJ timeline, or retconning this into yet another new timeline. As I said, irredeemable to me.

[soupytwist]

Michael is a few episodes away from becoming a perfect Mary Sue, ala Star Wars.

Disagree.  Wesley was the perfect Mary Sue in the Star Trek universe the self-righteous, Starship saving, Mozart of Quantum mechanics.   The ST Franchise is littered with Mary Sues to be honest, Michael will have plenty of company in that department.

[BlobVanDam]

Eh, I think the Mary Sue title is way overused these days, and I don't see Michael becoming one at all (or anyone else in Trek, although Wheaton certainly was an annoying little shithead). It wouldn't fit with their dark brooding drama where everyone has to constantly berate each other.

[El Barto]

I thought they just changed writing staff after 3/4 episodes, but I do recall there some change at that point. It will be interesting to see how much of a noticeable difference there is, although it's a moot point for me, as the show is basically irredeemable at this point.

I had actually heard the term "second pilot" bandied about. As I understand it, the first couple of episodes served as a sort of prelude, which would certainly support the idea of a serious retool. I also heard that some of the casting was changed afterward, but that would have been fixed by reshooting certain scenes. It's also possible that the first thee episodes filmed were condensed into one or two that actually aired.

[abydos]

Just watched RedLetterMedia's review of STD so far - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RVf01en-YA Lots of good points.

[BlobVanDam]

I thought they just changed writing staff after 3/4 episodes, but I do recall there some change at that point. It will be interesting to see how much of a noticeable difference there is, although it's a moot point for me, as the show is basically irredeemable at this point.

I had actually heard the term "second pilot" bandied about. As I understand it, the first couple of episodes served as a sort of prelude, which would certainly support the idea of a serious retool. I also heard that some of the casting was changed afterward, but that would have been fixed by reshooting certain scenes. It's also possible that the first thee episodes filmed were condensed into one or two that actually aired.

I don't know, but given the multiple delays and general ineptness of the production, it wouldn't surprise me.

[soupytwist]

Hmm If episode 4 is another 'pilot' episode, this will start to get odd.....The first two episodes were the official pilot (being the first episodes and all....) yet they felt more like a prologue, the 3rd episode felt more like a proper pilot (meeting the crew and ship) - now we will have another pilot for episode 4.  A tonal shift after 3 episodes isn't great, but as long as they don't recon it into something that looks and feels like the Big Bang Theory doing Star Trek cosplay (we already have The Orville for that  ) I'm OK with it.

Episode 4 of the Next Gen was the amazingly bad taste 'Code of Honor' with all it's racist glory.  There is noway they can create anything worse.........surely.

[BlobVanDam]

The most recent episode of STD was already worse than Code of Honor (and I'm not arguing that Code of Honor was anything more than terrible ). Ep 4 of The Orville however, is significantly better than anything TNG or STD managed in the first 4 episodes (I'm just safely assuming ep 4 of STD ain't magically becoming passable).

[El Barto]

Hmm If episode 4 is another 'pilot' episode, this will start to get odd.....The first two episodes were the official pilot (being the first episodes and all....) yet they felt more like a prologue, the 3rd episode felt more like a proper pilot (meeting the crew and ship) - now we will have another pilot for episode 4.  A tonal shift after 3 episodes isn't great, but as long as they don't recon it into something that looks and feels like the Big Bang Theory doing Star Trek cosplay (we already have The Orville for that  ) I'm OK with it.

Episode 4 of the Next Gen was the amazingly bad taste 'Code of Honor' with all it's racist glory.  There is noway they can create anything worse.........surely.

If that's the way it's gone then I suspect that second pilot was episode 3 and you should be seeing some continuity now. That jibes with the "retooling after 3 episodes" thing. Presumably the prologue was their original idea (Fuller, perhaps?), and when Moonves decided it was crap they moved along to the new story.

Out of curiosity, was the Chinese captain part of the prologue and now we're onto Isaacs? That guy's been kind of a dick with his upfront attitude that trekkies can go fuck themselves. This is the guy that gleefully posted that they were going to dump all over the legacy of Kirk and Picard.