Author Topic: Star Trek: Thread Space 9  (Read 16135 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Adami

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24883
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1225 on: September 10, 2017, 01:09:48 AM »
As I said, I don't really know how the whole thing works when it's only streaming. Maybe I'm just being too optimistic that they'll let it die. :lol
I don't even know what Iron Fist is, but I assume it was bad.

It was a Marvel show. Was universally panned. Got a 2nd season. Reviews don't seem to matter anymore. It made money, so therefore it's considered a success.
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline Polarbear

  • Posts: 643
  • Gender: Male
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1226 on: September 10, 2017, 03:26:20 AM »
Am i reading to much into this, or does it seem like they are basically sacrificing STD for the new show that Nicholas Meyer is working on?

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 37835
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
    • BlobVanDam's 3D Portfolio
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1227 on: September 10, 2017, 03:47:39 AM »
The whole production has been a wreck from the start, so I don't believe they're intentionally failing at it. Is the Meyer thing actually likely? I just assume it's one of those things you hear about that never eventuates, but I'd be interested in that.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18700
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1228 on: September 10, 2017, 09:43:16 AM »
The show will probably do fine. Fans of the new stuff will love it. Old fans will watch it just to spite it.

Ratings will mix from worst thing ever to amazing and brilliant. They'll make plenty of money and keep things going.

I doubt it'll get the ax.
Apparently there are test screenings that suggest otherwise. They found that JJ, Prime, and non-fans all hated it equally. I think they found only about a third of the people who saw it would actually watch it.

The turmoil described really paints the picture of a train wreck. They were firing/hiring new writers the whole time. They were shuffling actors around to different roles even after episodes had been filmed. I think I recall that after 2 or 3 episodes the thing takes a pretty hard right turn, reflecting a new direction in the writing staff. Pretty much all of the players involved were scared shitless by the way the thing was playing out.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 37835
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
    • BlobVanDam's 3D Portfolio
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1229 on: September 10, 2017, 09:55:42 AM »
I didn't hear about those test screenings. :lol
They also fired the entire VFX crew months into production and outsourced it to somewhere in Asia I think.

It's just sad that with the number of ideas that have come up over the years, and all of the people willing to get involved, that this is what we end up with.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18700
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1230 on: September 10, 2017, 01:06:53 PM »
Went back and checked and it was 20% who said they would watch it, and this was based on a seven minute real demonstrating the visuals. I suppose the story could improve that 20%, but from what we're seeing I wouldn't bet on it. After months of filming they froze production to retool, beginning with ep 4. If the first 3 episodes suck, that doesn't bode well for it.

Something else in those videos is JJ's dislike for the original. He tried twice to get CBS to bury the prime universe in favor of his own. His second offer was to produce a TV series as well as the movies, and slew of side projects if they'd just put the prime stuff in a box and lose it. They quite sensibly told him to fuck off, which played a part in his bailing to do Star Wars.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline ReaperKK

  • Sweeter After Difficulty
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 9904
  • Gender: Male
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1231 on: September 10, 2017, 02:53:03 PM »
Why does JJ hate the prime universe so much?

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18700
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1232 on: September 10, 2017, 03:55:37 PM »
I don't think he hates it "so much." He was a Star Wars guy and didn't find the more cerebral ST entertaining, so he set out to make an exciting version more to his liking. Wanting old ST buried was strictly a business decision. There were already two licensing deals, and he wanted his deal to be the focus going forward. CBS, understandably, wanted to continue raking in the bucks from their rights and told him to fuck off. In retrospect they were right, since the JJ-verse wasn't all that successful in the grand scheme of things.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Adami

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24883
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1233 on: September 10, 2017, 03:59:59 PM »
Can I quickly complain, just a little, how the newest ST trend for the past 10 or so years is to worship strictly the Kirk era stuff? It's great stuff, but I think ST really found its voice between TNG, DS9 and stuff. But it's no longer okay to like that stuff. It's only cool to like the classics. It would be like only liking Adam West era Batman and ignoring Keaton onward. I dunno, I just find it a bit annoying that there's SO much focus on the Kirk era stuff, and the rest of ST is essentially ignored at this point. Outside of some facepalm memes, that is.
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline ReaperKK

  • Sweeter After Difficulty
  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 9904
  • Gender: Male
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1234 on: September 10, 2017, 04:28:59 PM »
I just finished watching TOS all the way through a month or so ago and it was fun to watch but I agree with you Adami, I think ST really hit it's stride TNG, DS9, and VOY.

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18700
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1235 on: September 10, 2017, 04:43:00 PM »
Can I quickly complain, just a little, how the newest ST trend for the past 10 or so years is to worship strictly the Kirk era stuff? It's great stuff, but I think ST really found its voice between TNG, DS9 and stuff. But it's no longer okay to like that stuff. It's only cool to like the classics. It would be like only liking Adam West era Batman and ignoring Keaton onward. I dunno, I just find it a bit annoying that there's SO much focus on the Kirk era stuff, and the rest of ST is essentially ignored at this point. Outside of some facepalm memes, that is.
I have no idea where that's coming from. I haven't seen it and I'm not saying as such. I guess you're speaking of other Star Trek circles. While I wouldn't say that ST caught its stride with TNG, that's mostly because it was a different race altogether after 20 years. Still, I regard the subsequent series just as highly, and in some cases more-so, as TOS. My loyalty is to the prime universe as apposed to JJ's Transformers in Space series. If they were making any series within that universe, regardless of when it's set, I'd be quite excited about it. Hell, I'm excited about Orville, which has far more to do with ST and that universe than STD.

Interestingly, Brannon Braga is one of the producers and writers, and Frakes and Robert Duncan McNeil are both slated to direct, along with several other frequent ST directors. They've also ripped off some of the writers. The closest thing STD had to ST connections were Kurtzman and Fuller who were both fired.  :lol
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 4846
  • Gender: Male
  • Rest in Peace
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1236 on: September 10, 2017, 04:47:54 PM »
I had no idea all this crap was going on. I am not even positive I know what the "Prime" Universe is! But this is more entertaining that following the thread about Yes and trying to understand all the changes and turmoil they've put themselves through and coming to grips with there being two bands with Yes members out there.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Adami

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24883
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1237 on: September 10, 2017, 04:48:40 PM »
I wasn't necessarily talking about you, as much as the current state of Trek. The new movies are only about the Kirk era, and the new show is "10 years before Kirk", linking it more to that era than anything else. There seems to be a fear of moving past that era.
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline Orbert

  • Recovering Musician
  • EZBoard Elder
  • *****
  • Posts: 14812
  • Gender: Male
  • In and around the lake
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1238 on: September 10, 2017, 07:18:30 PM »
I agree that Star Trek really hit their "next level" with TNG, DS9, etc.  The later stuff.  They got a chance to explore what you could do with sci-fi in a weekly television series, which worked for what they were mostly doing.  Cool stuff, headier stuff in general.  But something about TOS still pulls me back, and I still like the TOS movies better, and I think part of that is because there was such a "wild west" feel to TOS.  You really felt like they were exploring uncharted territory, with tech that just barely got them there and kept them alive.  TOS has been called "Wagon Train to the Stars" but that reference only works if you're familiar with the TV show "Wagon Train" which was about the exploration of the old west.

With TNG onward, they almost seemed too comfortable, like yeah there's a lot of dangerous shit, but we'll handle it.  It didn't feel as high-stakes, and thus didn't grip you and give you something bigger-feeling, worthy of devoting a feature-length film to.  Exploring the wilderness in SUVs with all the latest tech just isn't the same as exploring it in covered wagons with rifles.

Offline Adami

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24883
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1239 on: September 10, 2017, 10:18:52 PM »
Just saw Wrath of Khan in theaters.

Sooooooo god damn good.

Say what you will about Bill's abilities, but the man gave a great performance.
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 4846
  • Gender: Male
  • Rest in Peace
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1240 on: September 10, 2017, 10:59:25 PM »
Say what you will about Bill's abilities, but the man gave a great performance.

Meyer challenged him more than he was accustomed to. He talks about it on the DVD commentary.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 37835
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
    • BlobVanDam's 3D Portfolio
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1241 on: September 10, 2017, 11:03:40 PM »
I'm jealous. As far as I could tell, they aren't screening TWOK here (at least anywhere local), otherwise I would have gone for the chance to see it on the big screen for the first time.

For me TNG/DS9/VOY is the era of Star Trek. I love TOS and the movies too, but I feel like that stuff was still just establishing the universe, and then TNG onwards expanded it into a more fully formed and cohesive universe. But it's all good.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline Adami

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24883
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1242 on: September 10, 2017, 11:56:26 PM »
The movie started with an interview between Scot Mantz and Shatner about the movie. Good stuff, even if a bit well known. At one point they talked about how Meyer went through all of the TOS episodes to find a good story. Shatner was like oh man, that's a lot of bad episodes to go through.
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 4846
  • Gender: Male
  • Rest in Peace
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1243 on: September 10, 2017, 11:58:43 PM »
I don't think that is accurate. Everything I've read is that Harve Bennett watched all the episodes and came up with the idea for a follow up to Space Seed. He didn't feel it had a satisfying resolution, and of course it had the most formidable and compelling antagonist.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Adami

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24883
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1244 on: September 11, 2017, 12:06:40 AM »
I don't think that is accurate. Everything I've read is that Harve Bennett watched all the episodes and came up with the idea for a follow up to Space Seed. He didn't feel it had a satisfying resolution, and of course it had the most formidable and compelling antagonist.

Yes. He watched all of the episodes to find a good story for the movie. I'm not sure where I was incorrect. My focus was just on the Shatner reply.
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline Cool Chris

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 4846
  • Gender: Male
  • Rest in Peace
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1245 on: September 11, 2017, 12:22:52 AM »
You said Meyer went through the shows when it was Bennett. But Meyer had to watch the show as well since he only knew it as the show with the pointy ear guy.
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Adami

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 24883
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1246 on: September 11, 2017, 12:35:52 AM »
You said Meyer went through the shows when it was Bennett. But Meyer had to watch the show as well since he only knew it as the show with the pointy ear guy.

Oh yea. Bennet.

White people. I get them all confused.
fanticide.bandcamp.com

Offline soupytwist

  • Posts: 502
  • Gender: Male
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1247 on: September 21, 2017, 07:56:49 AM »
So the early views on people who went to the premier (first 2 episodes) of Discovery are pretty damn good.  OK it's not safe to trust these early 'tweet' reviews, but it's nice to see a bit of positively for a project that has generally been looking like a dud!
I'd love this to be great, or just plain decent (Hell i'd settle for watchable)....and appariently there is a big twist early on.

Offline abydos

  • DT.net
  • Posts: 3384
  • Gender: Male
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1248 on: September 21, 2017, 08:36:34 AM »
What kind of people are those that got in on this, though? Regular ST fans or journos?

Offline soupytwist

  • Posts: 502
  • Gender: Male
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1249 on: September 21, 2017, 09:11:39 AM »
What kind of people are those that got in on this, though? Regular ST fans or journos?

I guess a mix. Adam Nimoy and Nichelle Nichols were there and gave it the thumbs up (take that as you will...)  The Shat was there too appariently.  There is an embargo on any proper reviews, which is always a worry, but it may (trying to stay positive) be more on the fact they don't want the twist revealed before it airs, rather than they are worried it's shite and they don't want the negative reviews out before it premiers.

Please be good!

Offline gmillerdrake

  • Proud Father.....Blessed Husband
  • DTF.org Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10226
  • Gender: Male
  • 1 Timothy 2:5
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1250 on: September 21, 2017, 09:36:14 AM »
Is this strictly a CBS.com view? Or is there another service streaming it?
Without Faith.....Without Hope.....There can be No Peace of Mind

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 37835
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
    • BlobVanDam's 3D Portfolio
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1251 on: September 21, 2017, 09:39:28 AM »
I could not be less interested in STD at this stage. Unless the twist is that the entire show is actually Spock's nightmare, I don't think there's anything that can salvage it, even based on what I've seen so far.
The main character alone already takes it to almost breaking point, shoe-horning in some random made up connection to Spock/Sarek (because that worked so well for TFF), creating a seemingly incredibly dull and unrelatable character for an actor coming off a role a lot of people already disliked, but at least they're patting themselves on the back for diversity (which is great and all, but it doesn't automatically make for a good show).
The designs are wrong out of necessity or just because some first time designer wants to follow the latest Hollywood trend, which if they had any respect for the franchise would have been reason enough to rethink the entire idea. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too setting it near TOS, but ended up with the worst of both worlds.
Half of the people involved have either bailed or been fired at various points in production, and many accounts have backed up how much of a mess the whole production has been.

If this show is even mediocre, it will be a miracle.

Is this strictly a CBS.com view? Or is there another service streaming it?

I believe it's on CBS' streaming service in the US, and Netflix everywhere else, with the first episode to air on regular TV.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline soupytwist

  • Posts: 502
  • Gender: Male
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1252 on: September 22, 2017, 03:01:37 AM »
I could not be less interested in STD at this stage. Unless the twist is that the entire show is actually Spock's nightmare, I don't think there's anything that can salvage it, even based on what I've seen so far.
The main character alone already takes it to almost breaking point, shoe-horning in some random made up connection to Spock/Sarek (because that worked so well for TFF), creating a seemingly incredibly dull and unrelatable character for an actor coming off a role a lot of people already disliked, but at least they're patting themselves on the back for diversity (which is great and all, but it doesn't automatically make for a good show).
The designs are wrong out of necessity or just because some first time designer wants to follow the latest Hollywood trend, which if they had any respect for the franchise would have been reason enough to rethink the entire idea. They wanted to have their cake and eat it too setting it near TOS, but ended up with the worst of both worlds.
Half of the people involved have either bailed or been fired at various points in production, and many accounts have backed up how much of a mess the whole production has been.

If this show is even mediocre, it will be a miracle.


My biggest issue is the time setting, how much can they do when we already know what the immediate (and distant) future holds.   Set it post anything we've seen in the Star Trek universe, then you can do interesting things like destroy Star Fleet for example.

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 37835
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
    • BlobVanDam's 3D Portfolio
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1253 on: September 22, 2017, 03:23:52 AM »
Yep, that's what I've wanted from the start. They've boxed themselves in worse than Enterprise here, and pulling it off was never going to be easy. Set it post-Nemesis/Voyager, and you can basically do whatever in regards to plot and designs.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline soupytwist

  • Posts: 502
  • Gender: Male
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1254 on: September 22, 2017, 03:58:22 AM »
Yep, that's what I've wanted from the start. They've boxed themselves in worse than Enterprise here, and pulling it off was never going to be easy. Set it post-Nemesis/Voyager, and you can basically do whatever in regards to plot and designs.

Also the obvious advancements in effects and visuals aren't so jarring if the show is set further in the future.  TOS is limited to what we thought the future would look like from a 1960's view point.   Whereas TNG is looking though a 1980's view point - the advancement in visuals, knowledge and technology kind off makes sense as TNG is set after TOS.   Discovery should be using all our new knowledge to represent what we think the future looks like from a 2017 perspective - instead it's going to have to limit itself to fitting in with the 1960's future.   

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 37835
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
    • BlobVanDam's 3D Portfolio
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1255 on: September 22, 2017, 04:41:32 AM »
Obviously Discovery has completely ignored the visual look of 1960s TOS (except for the hand props, which look excellent) and is just making it look like the new Trek movies. It would have been a hard balance to look both modern and yet consistent with TOS. Definitely possible, but more trouble than they would have put into it. This is why it's never made much sense to go backwards.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18700
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1256 on: September 22, 2017, 08:33:08 AM »
My biggest issue is the time setting, how much can they do when we already know what the immediate (and distant) future holds.   Set it post anything we've seen in the Star Trek universe, then you can do interesting things like destroy Star Fleet for example.

Also the obvious advancements in effects and visuals aren't so jarring if the show is set further in the future.  TOS is limited to what we thought the future would look like from a 1960's view point.   Whereas TNG is looking though a 1980's view point - the advancement in visuals, knowledge and technology kind off makes sense as TNG is set after TOS.   Discovery should be using all our new knowledge to represent what we think the future looks like from a 2017 perspective - instead it's going to have to limit itself to fitting in with the 1960's future.   
These would be valid points were it not for the fact that we already know they don't care about any existing canon or style. They're not boxed in because walls don't exist to them. TPTB have already said that we're looking at a different reality based on some goings on with Sarek. When this one crawls across the finish line they'll announce that it was just the first in an anthology, and the next season will be some completely different story in some completely different ST themed reality because. . . Sarek. The next installment could be centered around Ensign Luke Skywalker serving aboard the Starship Galactica for all they care.
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline Polarbear

  • Posts: 643
  • Gender: Male
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1257 on: September 22, 2017, 11:51:45 AM »
Obviously Discovery has completely ignored the visual look of 1960s TOS (except for the hand props, which look excellent) and is just making it look like the new Trek movies. It would have been a hard balance to look both modern and yet consistent with TOS. Definitely possible, but more trouble than they would have put into it. This is why it's never made much sense to go backwards.

Lucasfilm has done a great job in recreating the upgraded 70's look in the new Star Wars movies, i can't see why someone couldn't do the same for Star trek!

It's going to be hard to take STD seriously, since the new lead is supposed to be Spock's half sister or something..

That is just a tip of the iceberg!

Offline El Barto

  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 18700
  • Bad Craziness
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1258 on: September 22, 2017, 12:02:55 PM »
Apparently a while back one of the producers, trying to reassure people, announced to the press that they'd hired a staff of Trekies to make sure that the new show didn't step on canon or do something completely contradictory. Only hours later the word got out that the gal was Spock's half sister.  :lol
Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows.
E.F. Benson

Offline BlobVanDam

  • Future Boy
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 37835
  • Gender: Male
  • Transform and rock out!
    • BlobVanDam's 3D Portfolio
Re: Star Trek: Thread Space 9
« Reply #1259 on: September 22, 2017, 12:07:08 PM »
Apparently a while back one of the producers, trying to reassure people, announced to the press that they'd hired a staff of Trekies to make sure that the new show didn't step on canon or do something completely contradictory. Only hours later the word got out that the gal was Spock's half sister.  :lol

It's the same kind of semantic bullshit that made everyone complain about ENT. Just because something isn't *technically* violating canon, doesn't mean people should or will accept it.
Only King could mis-spell a LETTER.
Yep. I think the only party in the MP/DT situation that hasn't moved on is DTF.