Author Topic: New to Jazz  (Read 1230 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ytsejam58

  • Posts: 81
New to Jazz
« on: August 31, 2016, 12:46:26 PM »
I was surfing through the radio the other day and came across a jazz station and it sounded like the kind of stuff Thank you Scientist could have been heavily inspired.
I really know nothing about jazz so if someone knows jazz like I know prog, what are some of the best artists? Are their "The best jazz albums" like there are with rock and prog? Like how would you introduce someone to jazz?

Offline Big Hath

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5781
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2016, 01:09:40 PM »
here's some of my posts in the "Jazz" thread:

I would put Bitches Brew into the early Fusion category as well.

It kind of depends on what you like as jazz is splintered into many different directions you can take.

Some of the more popular/accessible albums in the genre that I love would be:

Kind of Blue - Miles Davis
Blue Train - John Coltrane
Somethin' Else - Cannonball Adderley
The Blues and the Abstract Truth - Oliver Nelson (my favorite)
Giant Steps - John Coltrane
Maiden Voyage - Herbie Hancock
The Incredible Jazz Guitar of Wes Montgomery

If you like the fusiony stuff, try Return to Forever, Mahavishnu Orchestra, Al Di Meola, etc.

If you like the piano led stuff, try Bill Evans (Waltz for Debby, Sunday at the Village Vanguard - both are awesome), maybe even Dave Brubeck (Take Five).

For later fusion I would go with Chick Corea first and then most of the people that have been in his bands have their own solo discographies (Dave Weckl being my favorite).

For some music that gets a little wild, go for Charles Mingus or Thelonius Monk (Brilliant Corners) (not quite the same "wild", but different and interesting none the less)

Quote from: Big Hath
ok, try some of these:

Horace Silver - Song For My Father
Jimmy Smith - Back at the Chicken Shack
Sonny Rollins - Plus 4
Sonny Rollins - Saxaphone Colossus
Winger would be better!

. . . and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Offline Mosh

  • For I have dined on honeydew!
  • Posts: 3825
  • Gender: Male
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2016, 04:13:38 PM »
Start with Kind of Blue then go from there. If you liked that sound, there's a lot of music just like it. But it'll be easier to recommend stuff to you once you've heard that album and reacted to it.

The thing with Jazz is it's a very incestuous genre. When you listen to a Miles Davis album, it's not just a Miles Davis album. You've also got at least 3 or 4 other guys on it with a huge catalog of classic music and their own distinct eras. So you decide what you like, what instrument(s) you're drawn to, and discover more stuff that way.
New Animal Soup scifi space opera for fans of Porcupine Tree, Mastodon, Iron Maiden: Chariots of the Gods

https://animalsoup.bandcamp.com/album/chariots-of-the-gods

Offline Elite

  • The 'other' Rich
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 17547
  • Gender: Male
  • also, a tin teardrop
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2016, 04:55:45 PM »
Pretty much impossible to just tell anyone where to start. That's like someone asking to give some pointers for guitar-driven music; the differences between singer-songwriters & death metal are immense. Same thing goes for jazz, really.
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
Squ
scRa are the resultaten of sound nog bring propey

Offline Kilgore Trout

  • Posts: 142
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2016, 07:26:29 AM »
ytsejam58 is not going to get much help... but what the others said is basically true. Jazz is more than 100 years old, so it's necessarily really diverse. You've got to check what kind of jazz you like before exploring further. Knowing what you expect from music might help (strong melodies, long instrumental improvisations, complexity of composition, etc.?).

To answer the OP question, there are "the best jazz albums" lists, but they aren't much help. There are a few artists that everyone will consider as important or great (Ellington, Davis, Coltrane, Mingus, etc.), but not everyone will agree on the period or the albums that can be considered the more important!

A lot of people indeed say Kind of blue is a good place to start, and I guess it is, but don't consider you don't like jazz if you don't like it (I like tons of jazz records, and I find Kind of blue absolutely boring).

For the record, I consider Charles Mingus' The black saint and the sinner lady to be the best jazz album I've ever heard until now. It's furious, ambitious (a single 45 minutes composition), complex yet melodious, crazy and beautiful. It's basically a big stretch from blues to classical music, with jazz in between. It is everything a jazz record can be. But it's not even my favorite jazz record, nor my favorite Mingus record...

Offline jasc15

  • Posts: 5022
  • Gender: Male
  • TTAL: Yeti welcome
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2016, 07:33:17 AM »
Jaco.


I really am unqualified to speak with any authority about jazz, but his work on bass is probably the most innovative I know of on any instrument.

Offline Sacul

  • Spinettapilled
  • DTF.org Alumni
  • ****
  • Posts: 12115
  • Gender: Male
  • ¿De qué sirvió haber cruzado a nado la mar?
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2016, 09:44:46 AM »
I know very little jazz, but I like some modern albums you might enjoy:

BADBADNOTGOOD - BBNG2 (half of these are covers of contemporary songs, but these guys play an energic style with some electronics, very cool)

Bohren & der Club of Gore - Sunset Mission (take the cheese out of the twin peaks soundtrack, add some drones and make it darker. And slower. Amazing band)

Matana Roberts - Coin Coin Chapter I (pretty wild record about the history of slavery of black people in the US. It was all recorded live but you won't notice)

Jaga Jazzist - What We Must (kind of post-rock/electronic jazz?)

Offline SoundscapeMN

  • Posts: 6432
  • Gender: Male
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2016, 10:39:47 AM »

Offline ytsejam58

  • Posts: 81
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2017, 07:13:11 AM »
Thank you for the suggestions. I'm listening to Miles Davis now and it is definitely my cup of tea! So I will continue on from there.
Also, I guess Jazz is too broad of a term. Jazz can refer to the virtuosity of skilled musicians like in Whiplash but also the soothing music you hear in the background of a coffee shop.

Offline Mosh

  • For I have dined on honeydew!
  • Posts: 3825
  • Gender: Male
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2017, 11:10:08 AM »
Thank you for the suggestions. I'm listening to Miles Davis now and it is definitely my cup of tea! So I will continue on from there.
Also, I guess Jazz is too broad of a term. Jazz can refer to the virtuosity of skilled musicians like in Whiplash but also the soothing music you hear in the background of a coffee shop.
I highly recommend the Ken Burns Jazz documentary. It's a mini series (something like 6-8 episodes). Last I checked it was on youtube and it shows up on Netflix periodically. It covers the evolution of the music up to the late 60s and is useful for learning about the early greats. One thing you'll learn about Jazz is that for awhile it was a pendulum swing between technical music and more laid back stuff. Kind of Blue marked one of those big shifts. All you have to do is listen to a cut from Milestones (released a year earlier with mostly the same musicians) to hear the difference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHk9Cgqa3yI

If you like that sort of thing, definitely check out Bebop. That's the jazz equivalent of shredding. Charlie Parker, Dizzie Gilespie, and some of 50's Miles.

Whiplash (the song) was pretty modern sounding, no big surprise since it was composed for the film. You'll find a lot of similar stuff in bands like The Bad Plus and Snarky Puppy, but there's a similar level of extravagance in a lot of Mingus' work. Black Saint and Sinner Lady was already mentioned and that's a good example, but also don't miss out on Ah Um or Blues & Roots (my personal favorite, check that out if you want to hear traditional Blues music taken to an extreme).
New Animal Soup scifi space opera for fans of Porcupine Tree, Mastodon, Iron Maiden: Chariots of the Gods

https://animalsoup.bandcamp.com/album/chariots-of-the-gods

Offline Big Hath

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5781
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2017, 02:02:35 PM »
definitely watch that doc, but beware of a few things.  Here is my post from elsewhere on the board:


Ken Burns's Jazz According to Wynton Marsalis should've been the actual title.

Ha - that was one of my complaints!


My primary issue is that the entire premise of the series was that jazz is some kind of completed work that was finished in the 1960's and now belongs in a museum to be admired for what it was.  Not something that continued to evolve beyond that point.

The series spent 9 episodes from roughly 1920 to 1960, then one single episode covering 1960 to 2001 (the year of its airing).  Because of this, entire jazz sub-genres are hardly mentioned if at all.  Avant-garde?  Fusion?  Jazz-funk?  Apparently they didn't exist.

And Wynton Marsalis, oh boy.  If you are a fan of his you are going to love the series, because it is seemingly all Wynton, all the time.  And even more egregious, he is basically presented as a sort of "savior" of jazz since it apparently died in the 60's.  One jazz writer had this to say about it: "Wynton's coronation in the film is not merely biased. It is not just aesthetically grating. It is unethical, given his integral role in the making of the very film that is praising him to the heavens."


My advise is to watch the show with the thought that this is Ken Burns'/Wynton Marsails' send up of jazz and as a good introduction to the history of the genre.  Beyond that, you'll need to dig deeper to find the things they were unwilling to include or talk about.
Winger would be better!

. . . and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Offline Big Hath

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5781
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2017, 02:06:14 PM »
Whiplash (the song) was pretty modern sounding, no big surprise since it was composed for the film. You'll find a lot of similar stuff in bands like The Bad Plus and Snarky Puppy,

Gavin Harrison's Cheating the Polygraph album is in this style as well.  Jazz/big band arrangements of various Porcupine Tree songs for those that are unfamiliar.  I thought it was very well done.
Winger would be better!

. . . and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Offline Mosh

  • For I have dined on honeydew!
  • Posts: 3825
  • Gender: Male
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2017, 02:31:37 PM »
It's a fair criticism, I'm not a fan of Marsalis either but I don't mind his insights on the early history of Jazz. You just have to be aware that Jazz exists past 1970, but that should be obvious to anybody reading this thread.

Whiplash (the song) was pretty modern sounding, no big surprise since it was composed for the film. You'll find a lot of similar stuff in bands like The Bad Plus and Snarky Puppy,

Gavin Harrison's Cheating the Polygraph album is in this style as well.  Jazz/big band arrangements of various Porcupine Tree songs for those that are unfamiliar.  I thought it was very well done.
Never heard of that, sounds awesome though.
New Animal Soup scifi space opera for fans of Porcupine Tree, Mastodon, Iron Maiden: Chariots of the Gods

https://animalsoup.bandcamp.com/album/chariots-of-the-gods

Offline Big Hath

  • DT.net Veteran
  • ****
  • Posts: 5781
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2017, 05:02:58 PM »
yes, definitely check it out if you like that modern jazz band sound or are into later-PT at all.  If you like both, like me, it's awesome.
Winger would be better!

. . . and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.

Offline SoundscapeMN

  • Posts: 6432
  • Gender: Male
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #14 on: September 17, 2017, 08:29:33 AM »
just saw Snarky Puppy live last night.

Well worth checking out.

"We Like It Here" is considered their best live album, which probably would be a good place to start.

Offline romdrums

  • Posts: 4509
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #15 on: September 17, 2017, 03:47:40 PM »
I would add Art Blakey and the Jazz Messengers to the list.  Lots of great players were given their first break with him, like Horace Silver, Wayne Shorter, and Freddie Hubbard, and his bands played with a real intensity.  If you were a young jazzer who was ready to make a statement, Art Blakey gave you the platform to let your voice be heard.  Not only that, but dude was a beast on the kit, and his hi hat on the 2 and 4 is absolute certainty. 
Though we live in trying times, we're the ones who have to try. -Neil Peart, 1952-2020.

There is a fundamental difference between filtered facts and firehosed opinions. -Stadler.

Offline darkshade

  • Posts: 4251
  • Gender: Male
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #16 on: September 17, 2017, 06:04:17 PM »
I'm more into Jazz from 1940s/50s and onward. IMO there is great stuff throughout all decades, and it's unfortunate that a lot of 1970s-present Jazz isn't as studied. Jazz is taught in schools as this relic that doesn't go past 1968. Some of the best jazz happened after the late 60s, and I think it's just stubbornness from some in the Jazz scene to not accept change; even though the genre was in constant evolution from the 1920s-1970s. Some of the stuff I've heard released in the past 10 years has been amazing.

Miles Davis - Kind of Blue, In A Silent Way, Milestones, Bitches Brew, Jack Johnson, Dark Magus, E.S.P., Big Fun, Get Up With It, On The Corner, Cooking At The Plugged Nickel, 'Round About Midnight, Miles Smiles, Walkin', Relaxin', Cookin', Workin', Steamin'
John Coltrane - Giant Steps, A Love Supreme, Kulu Sé Mama, At Carnegie Hall w/ Thelonius Monk
Freddie Hubbard - Backlash, Straight Life, Red Clay, Sky Dive
Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um, The Black Saint and The Sinner Lady
John Scofield - A Go-Go, Loud Jazz, Überjam, Blue Matter, This Or That, Electric Outlet, Überjam Deux
Herbie Hancock - Thrust, Man-Child, Headhunters, Mr. Hands, Maiden Voyage, Inventions & Dimensions, Sextant, Crossings, Mwandishi
Art Blakey & The Jazz Messengers - A Night In Tunisia
The Quintet - Jazz At Massey Hall
Jaco Pastorius - self titled, Word of Mouth
Pat Metheny - Bright Size Life, Secret Story, Orchestrion
Pat Metheny Group - Still Life (Talking), The Road To You, The Way Up, Letter From Home, Offramp, Imaginary Day, We Live Here
Pat Metheny Unity Group - Kin<->, Unity Band
Sonny Rollins - The Bridge, Saxophone Colossus,
Hiromi - Time Control, Beyond Standard, Spiral, Move, Spark
Dave Holland - Extended Play: Live at Birdland, Not For Nothin, Prime Directive, Conference of the Birds
Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz To Come, Free Jazz
Steve Jenkins - Mad Science
Mahavishnu Orchestra - The Inner Mountain Flame, Birds of Fire
Brand X - Unorthodox Behavior, Livestock, Moroccan Roll
Chick Corea - Return to Forever, Tones For Jone's Bones
Return To Forever - Romantic Warrior, Where Have I Known You Before
Chick Corea Elektric Band - Paint The World, Inside Out
Stan Getz - Captain Marvel
Michael Brecker - Pilgrimage, Time Is Of The Essence
Medeski, Martin & Wood - Uninvisible, Shack Man, Radiolarians II, Electric Tonic
Snarky Puppy - We Like It Here
Frank Zappa - The Grand Wazoo, Hot Rats, Imaginary Diseases
Victor Wooten - A Show of Hands
Tribal Tech - Illicit, Face First, X, Nomad, Tribal Tech
Tony Williams - Lifetime
Weather Report - Sweetnighter, Mysterious Traveler, Black Market, Heavy Weather, Mr. Gone

Offline PixelDream

  • Posts: 2891
  • Gender: Male
  • Maestro
Re: New to Jazz
« Reply #17 on: September 18, 2017, 03:55:47 AM »
Just check out some Snarky Puppy videos on YouTube. It's got jazz in there, but also prog, rock, funk, world music. Great starting point to get into a jazz kind of vibe I think.

I also saw someone recommend Sunset Mission by Bohren & Der Club of Gore. Great stuff.
Not 'Down To F***', but 'Dream Theater Forums' .