Author Topic: Colin Kaepernick  (Read 7434 times)

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Offline bosk1

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #70 on: September 01, 2016, 01:36:05 PM »
...and furthermore, you're not being a fair moderator in this matter.   

???  How so?
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Offline Adami

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #71 on: September 01, 2016, 01:42:05 PM »
Maybe it's the psychologist in me, but I feel that both nationalism and religion is based around basic tribalism. So they will obviously look very similar at times and evoke very similar emotions in us.
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Offline jammindude

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #72 on: September 01, 2016, 01:42:50 PM »
...and furthermore, you're not being a fair moderator in this matter.   

???  How so?

Quote
You called something with a basis "baseless", and you asserted that this was about "JW doctrine" instead of sticking to the immediate subject (nationalism having religious connotations....which is directly related to the idea of whether or not someone should stand for the anthem...or should they be made to do so).
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #73 on: September 01, 2016, 01:45:38 PM »
Okay, well I said I would withdraw that if that isn't what you meant.  But I still have no idea what that has to do with being an "unfair mod." 

Maybe it's the psychologist in me, but I feel that both nationalism and religion is based around basic tribalism. So they will obviously look very similar at times and evoke very similar emotions in us.

Yeah, now that I don't necessarily disagree with.  But as relevant to the specific act that led to the discussion in this thread, I don't really see a simple act of respect as rising to that level even. 
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Offline pogoowner

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #74 on: September 01, 2016, 11:30:14 PM »
Kaepernick kneeled during the anthem tonight. This interview actually sheds quite a bit of light on the situation.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-preseason/0ap3000000694491/Boyer-on-Kaepernick-He-s-willing-to-meet-somewhere-in-the-middle

Offline jammindude

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #75 on: September 01, 2016, 11:54:04 PM »
I'm reading reports down that other players are joining him.    At least one other 49er and now a Seahawk as well.
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Offline Skeever

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #76 on: September 02, 2016, 05:18:42 AM »
I think the kneeling is fine. It says, "I've heard you, you think not standing is disrespectful and that's not my intent, so I'm going show respect in a different way to symbolize my reservations."

Offline Chino

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #77 on: September 02, 2016, 06:16:33 AM »
This is going to turn into a shitstorm real fast. People in the stands are going to start doing this and someone is going to get their face smashed in.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2016, 06:23:06 AM by Chino »

Offline Chino

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #78 on: September 02, 2016, 06:24:38 AM »
I think the kneeling is fine. It says, "I've heard you, you think not standing is disrespectful and that's not my intent, so I'm going show respect in a different way to symbolize my reservations."

I think that's a decent compromise. I'd rather see them stand and hold little flags upside down.

Offline kaos2900

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #79 on: September 02, 2016, 06:48:57 AM »
I'm okay with the kneeling by his teammates. Sitting by yourself just made him look like a selfish dick.

Offline Skeever

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #80 on: September 02, 2016, 07:13:39 AM »
One reservation is that if we start kneeling for the flag we really are looking even more religious than jammindude says.

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #81 on: September 02, 2016, 08:19:41 AM »
As I did earlier in this thread, I'll do it again and that's give credit where it's due even though I disagree with his way of protesting.

I think his response has been pretty good.  The kneeling (while yea, does actually look even more religious) does show that he wants to try to be respectful and yet still try to make his point.  He also is going to donate 1 million dollars if he earns it this year.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17444691/colin-kaepernick-san-francisco-49ers-sits-again-national-anthem

Quote
"We were talking to him about how can we get the message back on track and not take away from the military, not take away from pride in our country but keep the focus on what the issues really are," Kaepernick said. "As we talked about it, we came up with taking a knee because there are issues that still need to be addressed and there was also a way to show more respect for the men and women that fight for this country."
...
He then spoke to the media for more than 16 minutes, announcing that he plans to donate the first $1 million he makes this year to help communities in need as part of his plan to take a more active role in combating racial inequality.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #82 on: September 02, 2016, 08:28:46 AM »
That certainly seems to more closely resemble the respectful kid that came from Reno to the Bay Area a few years ago.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #83 on: September 02, 2016, 12:28:31 PM »
I like the kneeling a lot better than the sitting.  I also like the donation.  It shows he is actively doing something for the cause which he is so passionate about.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #84 on: September 02, 2016, 12:34:08 PM »
As I did earlier in this thread, I'll do it again and that's give credit where it's due even though I disagree with his way of protesting.

I think his response has been pretty good.  The kneeling (while yea, does actually look even more religious) does show that he wants to try to be respectful and yet still try to make his point. 


Nothing says respectful like wearing socks to practice that have pigs in cop uniforms, right?

Like Colin Cowherd said yesterday, that is something a child would do, not a grown man.

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #85 on: September 02, 2016, 12:39:48 PM »
I also think his PR group had to jump in and the kneeling and the donation was them protecting his brand.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #86 on: September 02, 2016, 12:57:56 PM »
As I did earlier in this thread, I'll do it again and that's give credit where it's due even though I disagree with his way of protesting.

I think his response has been pretty good.  The kneeling (while yea, does actually look even more religious) does show that he wants to try to be respectful and yet still try to make his point. 


Nothing says respectful like wearing socks to practice that have pigs in cop uniforms, right?

Like Colin Cowherd said yesterday, that is something a child would do, not a grown man.

I dont know, I kind of find that to be really less of a story than the story already is (if that makes any sense).  Sure it's poor judgment when in the spotlight, but I just find it to not mean much more than poor judgment and I also find it much less disrespectful than sitting during the anthem.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #87 on: September 02, 2016, 02:13:24 PM »
As I did earlier in this thread, I'll do it again and that's give credit where it's due even though I disagree with his way of protesting.

I think his response has been pretty good.  The kneeling (while yea, does actually look even more religious) does show that he wants to try to be respectful and yet still try to make his point. 


Nothing says respectful like wearing socks to practice that have pigs in cop uniforms, right?

Like Colin Cowherd said yesterday, that is something a child would do, not a grown man.
What's the mature adult way to show contempt for something? Personally, I like the subtle approach.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #88 on: September 03, 2016, 06:52:45 AM »
As I did earlier in this thread, I'll do it again and that's give credit where it's due even though I disagree with his way of protesting.

I think his response has been pretty good.  The kneeling (while yea, does actually look even more religious) does show that he wants to try to be respectful and yet still try to make his point. 


Nothing says respectful like wearing socks to practice that have pigs in cop uniforms, right?

Like Colin Cowherd said yesterday, that is something a child would do, not a grown man.

I dont know, I kind of find that to be really less of a story than the story already is (if that makes any sense).  Sure it's poor judgment when in the spotlight, but I just find it to not mean much more than poor judgment and I also find it much less disrespectful than sitting during the anthem.

In a vacuum, I agree, but when you put it in the mix with everything else, it really takes away from his overall stance.  He looks like a petulant child now, rather than a crusader with a mission.

And now the SF police are saying they do not want to work 49ers games because of this.  The 49ers came out in defense of Kaepernick, because of course you have to do publicly or else the nut jobs will label you as a racist otherwise, especially in SF that openly admits to be a sanctuary city, but now you have possibly alienated the police force in your own town. 

Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #89 on: September 03, 2016, 06:58:28 AM »
Genuine question, can the police really refuse to do their job based on ideological differences? Aren't they similar in some ways to doctors in that they have to put aside their personal emotions and feelings and carry out their duties regardless? Otherwise, what would stop police refusing to protect White Power marches or Westboro Baptist Church protests or anything else they happen to disagree with? 

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #90 on: September 03, 2016, 07:37:20 AM »
Genuine question, can the police really refuse to do their job based on ideological differences? Aren't they similar in some ways to doctors in that they have to put aside their personal emotions and feelings and carry out their duties regardless?

By and large, yes, but I can understand them not wanting to help an organization that publicly supported one of their employees who has vocally supported a movement that encourages people to hate cops (or worse). 

The 49ers organization would have been better served to issue a statement saying that they fully support the right of any player to take a stand, within the bounds of what is legal and good taste, while also expressing their support of LE.

Offline Skeever

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #91 on: September 03, 2016, 07:46:44 AM »
What's the mature adult way to show contempt for something? Personally, I like the subtle approach.

This is a really great question. The fact is, if people disagree with your point, you will get ridiculed no matter how aggressive or subtle your approach. There's no such thing as "being respectful" when drawing attention to things people don't want to hear about, as should be evidence by the fact that even Bono gets called a pompous ass all the time.

Case and point, I listened to sports radio the other day and there were still people calling in saying things like "If Kaepernick really cared he would give some of his money away!" When the host made them aware that Kaepernick has, in fact, said he was going to give a million dollars away this year, the caller would just move on to something else (usually a much ugly, personal attack type criticism).

From my vantage point, the ugliness I've heard on Sports Radio, on Facebook, on that dumb outlash video from the woman that writes for The Blaze now far, far exceeds any "disrespect" Kaepernick showed by not standing. I'm now actively rooting for the guy and hope he lights it up this year.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #92 on: September 03, 2016, 07:54:46 AM »
To amend the question slightly, I think a good question is, what is the best way to protest? 

I ask because some of the same people who have had a major problem with the way BLM protests (as have I) also had a problem with the way Kaepernick did it, which leads to the obvious question: when and how is the best time and place to protest?  I mean, let's face it, someone is offended by everything nowadays, so there is no way to protest to make everyone happy (and often times, the reaction to the protest is dictated by ideology, not by whatever the specific act of protesting is), but I am just wondering what some think the best ways are.

Offline orcus116

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #93 on: September 03, 2016, 10:39:23 AM »
Case and point, I listened to sports radio the other day and there were still people calling in saying things like "If Kaepernick really cared he would give some of his money away!" When the host made them aware that Kaepernick has, in fact, said he was going to give a million dollars away this year, the caller would just move on to something else (usually a much ugly, personal attack type criticism).

From my vantage point, the ugliness I've heard on Sports Radio, on Facebook, on that dumb outlash video from the woman that writes for The Blaze now far, far exceeds any "disrespect" Kaepernick showed by not standing. I'm now actively rooting for the guy and hope he lights it up this year.

I've heard similar from my local sports talk radio, which usually doesn't bring out the brightest people regardless of topic, and the amount of huffing and puffing and straight up character assassination from some callers is downright amusing. You'd think the guy sacrificed a child on the football field based on how angry and self righteous some people are on this topic.

Offline Dave_Manchester

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #94 on: September 03, 2016, 12:50:00 PM »
Genuine question, can the police really refuse to do their job based on ideological differences? Aren't they similar in some ways to doctors in that they have to put aside their personal emotions and feelings and carry out their duties regardless?

By and large, yes, but I can understand them not wanting to help an organization that publicly supported one of their employees who has vocally supported a movement that encourages people to hate cops (or worse). 

Fair enough but in my opinion their duty in this case is to protect the people who are going to watch a sports match. That is all, their beliefs and feelings shouldn't enter into it. They are not 'helping an organization', they are doing their jobs as police officers. It seems to me a dangerous road if the police can now pick and choose when they will do their job based on which organization is involved. I'm sure there were gay police officers who guarded the Westboro Church while they picketed Matthew Shepard's funeral, and there are clearly many black police officers who protect White Nationalists when they stage their marches. If a police officer is going to be this sensitive to someone having a different view of things than they do, and expressing that view in a perfectly legal way, then in my opinion they are in the wrong profession.   
« Last Edit: September 03, 2016, 12:59:04 PM by Dave_Manchester »

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #95 on: September 03, 2016, 01:02:58 PM »
I think for games they are contracted.  It's not part of a regular detail protecting the Populous.   So they can refuse.  I may be wrong but that's a guess on my part.
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Offline El Barto

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #96 on: September 03, 2016, 10:25:00 PM »
Genuine question, can the police really refuse to do their job based on ideological differences? Aren't they similar in some ways to doctors in that they have to put aside their personal emotions and feelings and carry out their duties regardless?

By and large, yes, but I can understand them not wanting to help an organization that publicly supported one of their employees who has vocally supported a movement that encourages people to hate cops (or worse). 

Fair enough but in my opinion their duty in this case is to protect the people who are going to watch a sports match. That is all, their beliefs and feelings shouldn't enter into it. They are not 'helping an organization', they are doing their jobs as police officers. It seems to me a dangerous road if the police can now pick and choose when they will do their job based on which organization is involved. I'm sure there were gay police officers who guarded the Westboro Church while they picketed Matthew Shepard's funeral, and there are clearly many black police officers who protect White Nationalists when they stage their marches. If a police officer is going to be this sensitive to someone having a different view of things than they do, and expressing that view in a perfectly legal way, then in my opinion they are in the wrong profession.
My take on it is that the cops are there to maintain order and uphold the law, and that includes everybody. If a rowdy mob descended on Kap, I have little doubt that 149 of the 150 cops at that game would stick up for him without a second thought, simply because it's the right thing to do. The relevant question is whether or not they can pass on that particular assignment. That's probably a function of the contract signed by the venue and the city for police services. My hunch would be that cops can request not to be at the game with that guy, but whether or not it would be honored is an administrative decision.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #97 on: September 05, 2016, 09:14:02 AM »
Genuine question, can the police really refuse to do their job based on ideological differences? Aren't they similar in some ways to doctors in that they have to put aside their personal emotions and feelings and carry out their duties regardless?

By and large, yes, but I can understand them not wanting to help an organization that publicly supported one of their employees who has vocally supported a movement that encourages people to hate cops (or worse). 

Fair enough but in my opinion their duty in this case is to protect the people who are going to watch a sports match. That is all, their beliefs and feelings shouldn't enter into it. They are not 'helping an organization', they are doing their jobs as police officers. It seems to me a dangerous road if the police can now pick and choose when they will do their job based on which organization is involved. I'm sure there were gay police officers who guarded the Westboro Church while they picketed Matthew Shepard's funeral, and there are clearly many black police officers who protect White Nationalists when they stage their marches. If a police officer is going to be this sensitive to someone having a different view of things than they do, and expressing that view in a perfectly legal way, then in my opinion they are in the wrong profession.
My take on it is that the cops are there to maintain order and uphold the law, and that includes everybody. If a rowdy mob descended on Kap, I have little doubt that 149 of the 150 cops at that game would stick up for him without a second thought, simply because it's the right thing to do. The relevant question is whether or not they can pass on that particular assignment. That's probably a function of the contract signed by the venue and the city for police services. My hunch would be that cops can request not to be at the game with that guy, but whether or not it would be honored is an administrative decision.

It may differ from city to city but I'm fairly certain in StL the Officers who cover the Cardinals, Blues (and used to be Rams) were there on a voluntary basis. They are getting paid....but it's a voluntary Overtime Situation. As in..."hey...who want's overtime? Sign up for the game if you do"

I don't think it's an assignment. Now, if they decided to boycott it then the department may be pressured into assigning officers to protect. But, my neighbor who was a city cop for 9 years has told me sports games are basically OT opportunities.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #98 on: September 06, 2016, 10:43:03 AM »
That's what I thought.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #99 on: September 06, 2016, 11:20:43 AM »
Ask Kim Davis how refusing to do your job based on ideological differences works out.  :lol

Offline pogoowner

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #100 on: September 06, 2016, 11:34:03 AM »
Megan Rapinoe has joined Kaepernick in kneeling during the national anthem.

Quote
"I am disgusted with the way he has been treated and the fans and hatred he has received in all of this," Rapinoe told espnW's Julie Foudy. "It is overtly racist. 'Stay in your place, black man.' Just didn't feel right to me. We need a more substantive conversation around race relations and the way people of color are treated."

Rapinoe added: "We are not saying we are not one of the greatest countries in world. Just need to accept that [it is] not perfect, things are broken.

"And quite honestly, being gay, I have stood with my hand over my heart during the national anthem and felt like I haven't had my liberties protected, so I can absolutely sympathize with that feeling."

Rapinoe said she would continue to kneel in every match going forward.

"The very least that I can do is continue the conversation with him by kneeling for the anthem," she said.

http://www.espn.com/espnw/sports/article/17467341/nwsl-seattle-reign-us-women-national-team-player-megan-rapinoe-national-anthem-kneel-nod-san-francisco-49ers-quarterback-colin-kaepernick

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #101 on: September 06, 2016, 12:48:07 PM »
Now, THIS is how his protest may do some good.  Other athletes joining in or talking about it.

We'll see what happens.
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Offline TAC

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #102 on: September 06, 2016, 02:51:35 PM »
So eventually every team has a guy doing this? Then two? Then ten?

would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #103 on: September 06, 2016, 03:03:16 PM »
So eventually every team has a guy doing this? Then two? Then ten?
I have no idea.  I doubt it will go that far, but we'll see.

But if that happens, especially if the players doing it are STAR players, people will have to take it more seriously.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #104 on: September 06, 2016, 03:57:37 PM »
As long as it brings dialog with police and African Americans then it's worth it.  But both sides need to put their issues aside to do so.
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