Author Topic: Colin Kaepernick  (Read 7564 times)

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Offline kaos2900

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Colin Kaepernick
« on: August 31, 2016, 07:30:32 AM »
Surprised this hasn't been brought up yet and I'm curious if I'm the only one who is infuriated by yet another example of anti-American sentiment that seems to be plaguing our country. I get it's his right to not stand for the anthem, but I 100% disagree with it. First, this guy has none absolutely nothing other than sit down. If he is truly passionate about making a change he should look at someone like Carmello Anthony who is actively working to improve the situation. He needs to understand that it's his right but that expressing that right has consequences. I'm the sure the NFL will do nothing about it and he'll still be on a team though he has play shitty the last two seasons. Wonder how the NFL would react if a player sat to protest gay marriage? Second, the people coming out of the wood work trashing the national anthem and American flag are just clueless. Now the National Anthem is racist? Please. Does no one care about our country or being an American anymore? Sorry, but if you don't want to root for the home team then get the fuck out of the stadium.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2016, 07:56:10 AM »
No one would have cared if the media hadn't decided to have field day with it.

I'm more upset about the pipeline getting less coverage, and shows what's more important, and how the media truly is.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2016, 08:01:12 AM »
I have no problem with this guy doing this. I'm glad he is. I think it says a lot about our country that we get more infuriated over a guy not standing up for a flag rather than the reasons for why he's not standing in the first place. Not to mention, most of the people I've seen who are legitimately enraged by this are the same people who are wearing hats claiming that America is no longer great. I don't really see much of a difference in that regard. We have a society that gets so caught up pointless shit stories like this rather than real issues, and the people who get more fixated on stuff like this rather than things like out of control government spending are worse Americans than this guy.

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Now the National Anthem is racist?
  ::)

I care very much about this country and being an American. You know how I demonstrate that? I vote. I work a job I hate to pay a retarded amount in taxes to corrupt pieces of shit. I obey the law and don't make life miserable for my fellow Americans around me. I go out of my way to donate both money and time to causes in my home city. Simply standing up and taking off my hat while someone sings a song doesn't make you a good or a caring American.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2016, 08:03:54 AM »
Simply standing up and taking off my hat while someone sings a song doesn't make you a good or a caring American.
Correct.  But in the eyes of many, not doing so may make you an ungrateful one.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2016, 08:05:24 AM »
Simply standing up and taking off my hat while someone sings a song doesn't make you a good or a caring American.
Correct.  But in the eyes of many, not doing so may make you an ungrateful one.

Honestly, outside of a potential future employer, I couldn't care less.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2016, 08:14:08 AM »
So...you want a cookie or something?
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Offline Chino

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2016, 08:14:50 AM »
So...you want a cookie or something?

No. I'm on a diet. Thanks though.

Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2016, 08:15:43 AM »
Simply standing up and taking off my hat while someone sings a song doesn't make you a good or a caring American.
Correct.  But in the eyes of many, not doing so may make you an ungrateful one.

Honestly, outside of a potential future employer, I couldn't care less.

I bet those people also forget about the old way of pledging allegiance.

I also, don't care. For me it's another distraction story.

I'm interested in what does being American mean?
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2016, 08:39:11 AM »
Simply standing up and taking off my hat while someone sings a song doesn't make you a good or a caring American.
Correct.  But in the eyes of many, not doing so may make you an ungrateful one.

Honestly, outside of a potential future employer, I couldn't care less.

Exactly.  So since conventional wisdom suggests that standing during the national anthem = being respectful, then you should actually stand throughout your entire job interview.  You'll probably have an even better chance of getting hired.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2016, 08:44:28 AM »
There are much better ways to make a point, not respecting the national anthem shows a lack of character IMO.  He put himself before the country.  We are also talking about someone who has made millions of dollars playing a game.  It's kind of hard to relate to him and his point knowing that.  He isn't wrong in his point, just a poor decision in how he is making that point IMO.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2016, 08:57:58 AM »
He should be bullied into behaving in a socially acceptable manner. His kind of attitude should no longer be accepted in a civilized society.
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Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2016, 09:03:32 AM »
He should be bullied into behaving in a socially acceptable manner. His kind of attitude should no longer be accepted in a civilized society.

Right.  You want a country where you're forced into unwilling displays of nationalism?  Move to North Korea.

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2016, 09:03:53 AM »
I honestly think if he were still 'good' and playing well that he wouldn't be doing this. He knows he was a flash in the pan player.....that he no longer can compete and is essentially giving himself an excuse as to why he'll be cut or not playing....something other than his extremely poor performance to point to and 'blame' why he's no longer a starter or in the NFL.




Not to mention, most of the people I've seen who are legitimately enraged by this are the same people who are wearing hats claiming that America is no longer great.

Brian, like you a lot but I've seen this statement a hundred times on social media and it's extremely lazy and painting with such a broad stroke....it's clearly a shot at Trump supporters and trying to perpetuate this media driven sentiment that anyone who likes Trump and Trump himself is a racist.

There are reports that Kapernick has converted to Islam and that his girlfriend is a massive BLM player....should I go ahead and label him a terrorist now? I personally think that if he really gave a  :censored he'd use the platform he has to actually do something other than sit down for an anthem. But he won't....he'll just fade away into history and probably won't even be remembered in 5 years.
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Offline Chino

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2016, 09:08:06 AM »
He put himself before the country.

How is this country somehow now worse off as a result of him not standing during the national anthem? How is he better off? He could lose millions of dollars because of this stunt, and he's well aware of that. How is that putting himself first?


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not respecting the national anthem shows a lack of character IMO.

It shows a lot of bravery if you ask me. He put his sponsorships and possibly his career on the line because he felt this message and the weight it held was more important than himself. The anthem is a song with no feeling or consciousness. You can't disrespect it. You know what once had those things? All the black people left to rot in jail for crimes they didn't commit or the ones that got shot by trigger happy officers.


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We are also talking about someone who has made millions of dollars playing a game.  It's kind of hard to relate to him and his point knowing that.

Why are we supposed to relate to him? I don't think that's his objective or the purpose of this at all. Him playing a game for a living is the whole point behind this. Unlike ordinary people, this guy has a platform and a following that allows him to he heard and questioned. He has the power to get much need conversation started. You and I do not have that luxury. I applaud him for having the balls to put himself in a different spotlight.


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He isn't wrong in his point, just a poor decision in how he is making that point IMO.

His goal is to draw attention to some very serious issues in our judicial system before everyone forgets again. This has been one of the most talked about things in the last 4 or 5 days. What would have been a better/more efficient way to go about this. Twitter?

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2016, 09:13:39 AM »
Brian, like you a lot but I've seen this statement a hundred times on social media and it's extremely lazy and painting with such a broad stroke....it's clearly a shot at Trump supporters and trying to perpetuate this media driven sentiment that anyone who likes Trump and Trump himself is a racist.

I took it as a very bad sort of hypocrisy that Trump's "Make America Great Again" slogan makes the clear implication that America is currently not great, and people eat it up.  CK comes right out and says it and everyone's got pitchforks and torches at the ready.  Why is it okay for Trump to all but come out and say it, but not for CK to come out and say it?

Offline Chino

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2016, 09:16:35 AM »
Brian, like you a lot but I've seen this statement a hundred times on social media and it's extremely lazy and painting with such a broad stroke....it's clearly a shot at Trump supporters and trying to perpetuate this media driven sentiment that anyone who likes Trump and Trump himself is a racist.

I said absolutely nothing about Trump supporters being racist, and I don't think Trump is either. Nothing I said implies that in any way. I'm talking about the hypocrisy of a large group of people giving this guy shit because he's not kissing America's feet, while at the same time wearing hats that are saying the exact same thing this guy is.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2016, 09:21:41 AM »
He put himself before the country.

How is this country somehow now worse off as a result of him not standing during the national anthem? How is he better off? He could lose millions of dollars because of this stunt, and he's well aware of that. How is that putting himself first?

He did not respect the national anthem.  That doesn't change anything about the country IMO, but makes him the spotlight, not the cause and not the country.  Millions of dollars?  The guy is on his last string in the NFL.  His money was already made.

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not respecting the national anthem shows a lack of character IMO.

It shows a lot of bravery if you ask me. He put his sponsorships and possibly his career on the line because he felt this message and the weight it held was more important than himself. The anthem is a song with no feeling of consciousness. You can't disrespect it. You know what once had those things? All the black people left to rot in jail for crimes they didn't commit or the ones that got shot by trigger happy officers.

You can certainly disrespect the country which he did IMO.  I'm also not arguing the point he was making.

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We are also talking about someone who has made millions of dollars playing a game.  It's kind of hard to relate to him and his point knowing that.

Why are we supposed to relate to him? I don't think that's his objective or the purpose of this at all. Him playing a game for a living is the whole point behind this. Unlike ordinary people, this guy has a platform and a following that allows him to he heard and questioned. He has the power to get much need conversation started. You and I do not have that luxury. I applaud him for having the balls to put himself in a different spotlight.

If you are trying to make a point, the point is a lot easier made when you can relate to it.  This guy made more money in America in a few years than most people in a life time.  He does have a platform, but instead of using that platform in a better way, he chose to express his freedom in a controversial matter which belittles the point.  Everyone is talking about him.

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He isn't wrong in his point, just a poor decision in how he is making that point IMO.

His goal is to draw attention to some very serious issues in our judicial system before everyone forgets again. This has been one of the most talked about things in the last 4 or 5 days. What would have been a better/more efficient way to go about this. Twitter?

He could donate some of that NFL American made money to a cause.  He could get out on the streets (not hold up traffic mind you) and do a legal protest like most people have been doing who want to make a point.  Grab one of his sponsors and work with them on doing an ad campaign for these issues.  There's many ways to make a difference that don't make you look like someone who is disrespectful

Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2016, 09:29:45 AM »
giving this guy shit because he's not kissing America's feet, while at the same time wearing hats that are saying the exact same thing this guy is.

Why is it okay for Trump to all but come out and say it, but not for CK to come out and say it?

I've never looked at Trumps slogan as an indictment on the culture of America but more as to America's standing in the world now. We are a laughing stock due to the weak, inept leadership and horrid foreign policy choices we've had over the past 8 years. I've seen Trumps 'make America great again' as implying he'd sew back on the balls we used to have that this administration has willingly handed over.

As far as CK's "point".....you can take a stand for what you believe in, that's great. But to try an say black people are oppressed doesn't make much sense to me because there has never been more opportunity for black people to succeed in America than there is right now. The entire argument makes no sense to me....maybe I'm missing something...but if anyone....not just the black community....is not succeeding in America in this day and age it is no one's fault but theirs.

I cannot get on board with the whole BLM...cops are bad...our people are being oppressed nonsense when 'they' fail to hold themselves and their communities to the same judgement they are administering. The black on black crime and oppression outweighs any of whatever perceived crime and oppression they are stating is holding them back a thousand fold yet there is hardly a peep about that from these types of protests or stances.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2016, 09:31:44 AM »
:lol  Um...can we cease with a lot of the drama and handwringing?  People respectfully disagreeing with him, or even calling him a tool either for his beliefs or the manner in which he expressed them, are hardly "bullying" the little millionaire or having "pitchforks and torches at the ready" over this. 

Apparently, people in this thread have a REALLY hard time taking emotion out of the picture and having an open, honest discussion.  Pretty disappointing.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2016, 09:45:09 AM »
"If there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein. If there are any circumstances which permit an exception, they do not now occur to us." - US Supreme Court 1943
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2016, 09:47:17 AM »
I'm talking about the hypocrisy of a large group of people giving this guy shit because he's not kissing America's feet, while at the same time wearing hats that are saying the exact same thing this guy is.

If standing during the national anthem is equivalent to kissing America's feet, I guess paying taxes really is taking it from behind from America  :lol

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2016, 09:48:39 AM »
To be fair, I should say that I don't really care if he stands or doesn't, I'm just not a fan of the expectation that we should all bow down to our country or any symbol of it, be it the flag, or the national anthem, or the pledge of allegiance.  I was pointing out the way it appeared from my perspective.  People all over America are having obvious problems taking their emotion out of the picture over this, on both sides of the issue.

"bullying" the little millionaire

Sounds like something a Packers fan would say... 

Offline bosk1

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2016, 09:57:56 AM »
To be fair, I should say that I don't really care if he stands or doesn't, I'm just not a fan of the expectation that we should all bow down to our country or any symbol of it, be it the flag, or the national anthem, or the pledge of allegiance.  I was pointing out the way it appeared from my perspective.  People all over America are having obvious problems taking their emotion out of the picture over this, on both sides of the issue.

An expectation that one show respect is not the same as an expectation that we "bow down."  Rising to show respect to the symbol of the country is not the same as kissing the ring of the emperor.  Again, we don't need to make this into something it isn't just to try to make a point. 

And, yeah, people all over the country have a problem taking emotion out of the issue.  We ask for a better standard here.  If we were about just slinging mud, we could just copy/paste comments from ESPN.com, YouTube, or Blabbermouth.  But we don't do that, in part, because we recognize that the "norm" in terms of comments there

"bullying" the little millionaire

Sounds like something a Packers fan would say... 

Guilty as charged.  :lol  But also largely irrelevant, since I am first and foremost a 49ers fan when it comes to my NFL interests.
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Offline orcus116

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2016, 10:06:24 AM »
Considering some of the actual issues we have going on in this country it always blows my mind some of the topics the the public hive mind rages over on a given week. With all due respect to those who clearly have strong opinions on this, this is a complete "who gives a crap" non-story for a slow news period.

Offline Adami

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2016, 10:19:42 AM »
Totally cool with what he did.
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Offline eric42434224

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2016, 10:22:50 AM »
I find it sad that so many are up in arms about how their "country has been disrespected".  Sometimes it needs to be disrespected in order to effect needed change.  This is evident throughout our history. 

Showing respect to a song is not what this country is about....the freedom to do what he did, or did not do, is FAR more what America is truly about.


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Offline bosk1

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2016, 10:35:21 AM »
Showing respect to a song is not what this country is about....the freedom to do what he did, or did not do, is FAR more what America is truly about.

I think they are both what the country is "truly about."  As is the freedom to criticize him, for those who choose to do so.  They aren't mutually exclusive ideas, or ones where one needs to be "FAR" more important than the other.
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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2016, 10:40:16 AM »
Showing respect to a song is not what this country is about....the freedom to do what he did, or did not do, is FAR more what America is truly about.

I think they are both what the country is "truly about."  As is the freedom to criticize him, for those who choose to do so.  They aren't mutually exclusive ideas, or ones where one needs to be "FAR" more important than the other.

What he did, and disagreeing with what he did, are truly one and the same.  They are BOTH what this country is, in part, truly about.

However, showing (or not showing) respect for the National Anthem is NOT on the same level as Freedom of Speech.  One is WAY more important than the other.

Some have said that his disrespect is a symptom of what is wrong with America today.  I see it as the exact opposite.  His freedom to do so is exactly what is right about America.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2016, 10:45:23 AM by eric42434224 »
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2016, 10:43:06 AM »
I don't have a problem with him doing this.  I just have a problem with HIM doing this.

I understand his point, or rather the point of view that caused him to want to do something.  There really is a problem, and I don't understand people who think he (or others who say the same thing) are wrong about that. 

But the fact that he chose this particular thing to do because of that belief was not wise on his part.

His actual cause has been completely overshadowed by him and his circumstances.  I mean, sure, he had a good season, but lately he is practically nothing. He may not even start for his team.

I think this particular gesture would have much more meaning coming from an African-American athlete with more stature than this douche nozzle.  As it is, the dialogue about police/black relations has come to a standstill because we are all talking about an athlete who won't stand for the anthem, as if these problems are the flag's fault or the anthem's fault. 

His energies are completely misdirected, and the attention is going to what he is doing, instead of why he is doing it.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2016, 11:10:19 AM »
Well said, hef.

On the surface, him not standing for the National Anthem is not that big of a deal; I'd rather someone protest like that than acting like tools and blocking traffic.  However, like has been said, he is such a douche already and on his way down the toilet as a player that it comes across as a guy desperate to keep his name in the headlines.

Oh, and anyone who says the National Anthem is racist shouldn't be paid attention to.

Offline Chino

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #30 on: August 31, 2016, 11:17:49 AM »
I know nothing about football, or it's players, but I know who Tom Brady is. If Tom Brady did this, what would have been different about the way it was reported?

Offline Skeever

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #31 on: August 31, 2016, 11:21:19 AM »
I think what he did is an acceptable form of civil disobedience. He also picked one of the most appropriate reasons to sit out the anthem.

How he presents himself others, I don't know and I don't care. Not interested in partaking in a mass psycho-analysis of Kaep. Don't watch enough ESPN for it anyway.

Offline kingshmegland

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #32 on: August 31, 2016, 11:21:57 AM »
I've been of the mind that people in the public eye should do something with their popularity.  I also know it's a personality thing.  I may not agree with his methods but he has the right to so so.

Now, what he was originally doing was a silent protect until he seen on national TV.  Maybe I'm wrong but I didn't hear of this stance beofre the last game.  He said he's done it all pre season.  He should have declared it and then done it in my eyes.

I know nothing about football, or it's players, but I know who Tom Brady is. If Tom Brady did this, what would have been different about the way it was reported?

Tom has done some weird things like backing his health coach who was caught in some scam 15 years ago.  If Tom did this this there would be a huge uproar.  He is already polarizing.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2016, 11:43:24 AM »
Well said, hef.

On the surface, him not standing for the National Anthem is not that big of a deal;

Well said as well Hef and I totally am with you on the second part, Kev.  I may have made my opinion known in this thread, but the reality is I for the most part see this as a "non story". 

Don't watch enough ESPN for it anyway.

Yup, I can't watch espn anymore besides for live sports.

I know nothing about football, or it's players, but I know who Tom Brady is. If Tom Brady did this, what would have been different about the way it was reported?

Probably

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Colin Kaepernick
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2016, 12:26:07 PM »
I know nothing about football, or it's players, but I know who Tom Brady is. If Tom Brady did this, what would have been different about the way it was reported?
I'm not sure.  He is certainly polarizing, but he is also certainly seen as one of, if not the, best QBs in the league.  Someone of his stature would have more effect, I would imagine.

However, he's white.  So I don't know how that would play out.

Again, Kaepernick is kind of a twat waffle.  Him doing this is making the story about him doing this instead of the reason he's doing this, whereas IMO a non-twat waffle doing this may well bring public attention more onto the actual cause.  Just my two cents.

I also just don't think it's an effective protest.  Tommie Smith and John Carlos doing the Black  Power salute during the anthem at the 1968 Olympics was powerful because they drew attention to their cause while still (nominally, at least) participating in the anthem.  And they had just won the gold and bronze medals, respectively, in their event.  Kaepernick is just opting out.  He isn't doing anything.  He isn't helping anybody.  In other words, while he is being disrespectful in the eyes of people who view that action as being disrespectful, he isn't correspondingly adding anything positive, like Smith and Carlos did.
Hef is right on all things. Except for when I disagree with him. In which case he's probably still right.