Porcupine Tree R.I.P. - v. Epilogue

[KevShmev]

But give me a song like Routine or The Raven that Refused to Sing and I'm a happy dude.

Hell yeah! If I had to list my favorite 10 songs by SW, from any project, those would be the first two I'd pick from his solo albums.  PT would probably have the rest, although another solo or Blackfield tune might sneak in there.

[TioJorge]

I generally make it my mission to hate and despise anything that Jackie loves...

This made me chuckle.  After the day I just had, that's awesome.

Routine is the fucking shiznit. Also Transience.

[RoeDent]

Tbh, and as much as I enjoy PT, I'm glad he's called an end to it. The uncertainty and endless questions of "When will PT get back together?" are getting old now. People need to move on. SW's current work is the best he's ever done, and he's finally getting the recognition he deserves.

[The Curious Orange]

I went to see PT at Kentish Town Forum on the FOABP tour - fantastic show, great rock crowd. I saw them again on the second leg when the Nil Recurring EP was released. Something had happened in the interim, because the crowd was suddenly full of wankers. Totally spoilt the night. I saw them again at Hammersmith on the Incident tour, and again, even more wankers. It was as if Nuts or Loaded had suddenly declared PT the best band ever, and overnight their audience changed. Purely based on the crowd at that Hammersmith gig, I wouldn't have forked out money to see them again. And that's a shame, coz I loved that band.

Insurgentes and GBD both left me cold, but Hand.Cannot.Erase is a brilliant album.

[Super Dude]

In Absentia and Deadwing had their time. I don't love the solo work but I still think it was time.

[KevShmev]

Tbh, and as much as I enjoy PT, I'm glad he's called an end to it. The uncertainty and endless questions of "When will PT get back together?" are getting old now. People need to move on. SW's current work is the best he's ever done, and he's finally getting the recognition he deserves.

I stil think The Raven is one of his three best albums ever (along with Deadwing and Lightbulb Sun), and both Grace and Hand are both pretty awesome, as well, so I would agree that what he has been doing post-PT is among his best work to date.

Also Transience.

Transience is so overlooked, yet so great. 

[Ben_Jamin]

Transience has to be one of the best songs his done since leaving PT, besides Raven.

I enjoy Hand. Cannot. Erase. A lot and just have to be in a mood to listen to it but ita great. Also, that response does seem to stem from being constantly asked "umm...so...yeah..PT?" It sounds as if he means PT is non-existent at this point in time, so shut up about it.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Fans can be weird. One thing is to ask SW whether PT is coming back any time soon and other thing is to tell him that Germany awaits for PT. 

In all fairness, 90% of PT was Wilson. Harrison added a magnificent depth to the percussive layers of the music and I'll always love Barbieri's use of ambience, but it was all Wilson. He only switched band members and, like he has stated previously, it's important for him to have his music released under his name.
Fans could easily complain and beg for the return of PT if the quality of his 'solo' music wasn't great, but we all know that isn't the case. Fans seem really happy with the place SW is at right now and there's only a very little vocal minority that doesn't seem to move on from PT. Also, I think it's awesome to see his current band playing old PT stuff because it kinda brings everything to a full circle. It's all Steven Wilson music at the end of the day.

[devieira73]

I have the impression that until Raven... SW wanted to be perceived musically somewhat different from PT. With HCE I guess SW is more secure with his own solo career and he is more confortable to produce music that could be easily identifed with PT's style.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I have the impression that until Raven... SW wanted to be perceived musically somewhat different from PT. With HCE I guess SW is more secure with his own solo career and he is more confortable to produce music that could be easily identifed with PT's style.

Agreed, but it's to be noted that PT's style was SW's style back then.

[Metro]

Kinda sucks because PT deserves a better send-off than The Incident. Oh well.
I can understand why he might not feel the need to go back to PT. Will all due respect to Colin, Richard, Gavin, and Jon, the guys in his solo band are much more versatile. Anything he could do with PT he can do with his solo band.
Regardless, I have no doubt that there will be at least a one off reunion show in the future. If only just for one or two songs at a SW solo show. As far as we know, SW and the other guys are all on good terms.
I'd say a PT reunion is still more likely than a DT/MP reunion.

[jammindude]

 I have a feeling the ending Porky Pine tree had to be illegal move about everything else. Probably something about the way the contract was drawn up with the other band members that he felt like he had to get out of. Because we need to face at least one fact. Steven Wilson was Porcupine Tree before any of the other band members even came on board. I don't know why he felt like he lost control somewhere along the line, but obviously he felt like he had lost 100% creative control and he wanted that back.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Kinda sucks because PT deserves a better send-off than The Incident. Oh well.

Yeah, kinda. I like The Incident a lot but it's not quite the greatest album of all time (it has some genius moments, particularly from Octane Twisted onwards) but I've always gotten the impression SW isn't a big fan of The Incident. The triggering of his solo career was just after The Incident was released, and based on things he has said every now and then he didn't love the overall direction PT was taking. I mean, SW has always been about putting out albums with a unique personality, and although there is some amazing music the Deadwing - Fear of a Blank Planet - The Incident run feels kinda samey in tone.

I'd say a PT reunion is still more likely than a DT/MP reunion.

Yeah, I mean: as far as we know there aren't any hard feelings between them (as opposed to DT/MP), but I don't know how likely that would be given SW is playing plenty of PT material in his concerts. Why would he gather his old band to play the material he is happily playing with his new band? I think the other PT guys would accept the reunion thing in a heartbeat, but I don't know if it's in SW interests. It kinda makes no sense in his position.

[PixelDream]

I kinda see it this way. If SW or the rest of PT see any valid (musical) reason to make another record, that's great. The music will probably be amazing. If they'll never get back together, it's because there's apparently nothing left to say musically.

[Zantera]

Yeah, kinda. I like The Incident a lot but it's not quite the greatest album of all time (it has some genius moments, particularly from Octane Twisted onwards) but I've always gotten the impression SW isn't a big fan of The Incident. The triggering of his solo career was just after The Incident was released, and based on things he has said every now and then he didn't love the overall direction PT was taking. I mean, SW has always been about putting out albums with a unique personality, and although there is some amazing music the Deadwing - Fear of a Blank Planet - The Incident run feels kinda samey in tone.

SW said in an interview a while back after The Incident that he felt like every other PT album was great and every other PT album didn't turn out the way he wanted it to, and he cited The Incident, Deadwing and Lightbulb Sun as albums he wasn't 100% happy with, whereas his feelings on Stupid Dream, In Absentia and Fear of a Blank Planet were much warmer.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Interesting to see he's not big on Deadwing and Lightbulb Sun, given both of those albums have some incredible things going on.

[ReaperKK]

Sad news. Never a really big fan of his solo work. If he felt that he wasn't in creative control 100% of the time in PT then maybe that was a good thing because he solo stuff just doesn't click with me at all.

[Sacul]

SW said in an interview a while back after The Incident that he felt like every other PT album was great and every other PT album didn't turn out the way he wanted it to, and he cited The Incident, Deadwing and Lightbulb Sun as albums he wasn't 100% happy with, whereas his feelings on Stupid Dream, In Absentia and Fear of a Blank Planet were much warmer.

Although I think those kinda weak, kinda good albums, I can't imagine what he didn't like about Lightbulb Sun - such a perfect record imo.

[KevShmev]

Not that he is the melodramatic type, but I could see him not being as keen on Lightbulb Sun because most of the songs on it are about his breakup with his girlfriend at the time.

As for Deadwing, I remember he wasn't overly wild about Shallow, even referring to it as a "big dumb rock song" shortly after its release, so I could its presence making him not completely happy with the whole.

To my ears, those are two of the most perfect rock records ever recorded.

[XB0BX]

Not shocking news, I feel like we all secretly knew PT was done. I've always vastly preferred his solo stuff to PT. The only album that can compete with TRTRTS and HCE is The Sky Moves Sideways. His solo stuff just resonates with on an emotional level that his PT stuff doesn't.

[Nearmyth]

This hasn't been news since like, 2012. He was just slightly more stern about it this time.

[Skeever]

I have a feeling the ending Porky Pine tree had to be illegal move about everything else. Probably something about the way the contract was drawn up with the other band members that he felt like he had to get out of. Because we need to face at least one fact. Steven Wilson was Porcupine Tree before any of the other band members even came on board. I don't know why he felt like he lost control somewhere along the line, but obviously he felt like he had lost 100% creative control and he wanted that back.

I agree. We know for a fact that he wanted nothing to do with the live CD that came after The Incident. The move to Roadrunner seems to have soured him quite a bit.

[jammindude]

SW said in an interview a while back after The Incident that he felt like every other PT album was great and every other PT album didn't turn out the way he wanted it to, and he cited The Incident, Deadwing and Lightbulb Sun as albums he wasn't 100% happy with, whereas his feelings on Stupid Dream, In Absentia and Fear of a Blank Planet were much warmer.

Although I think those kinda weak, kinda good albums, I can't imagine what he didn't like about Lightbulb Sun - such a perfect record imo.

He mentions in the interview that he was kindof forced to write pop songs which he didn't like.   Then later he mentions not really caring for "happy" songs and then they mention that "Rest Will Flow" is the most positive song he ever wrote.    It's not a stretch to think that (being possibly the poppiest song in their catalog) may have been one of SW's sore spots.

I also notice that the re-release has the original version he recorded instead of the version that had appeared on the album which was pitch adjusted to make it more radio friendly. 

[KevShmev]

Well, SW's catalogue for close to the last 20 years is loaded with catchy, potentially radio-friendly "pop" songs, so I'd be surprised if he was really bothered too much by that.  Writing catchy choruses is one of his greatest strengths.

[jammindude]

I have a feeling the that ending Porky Pine tree Porcupine Tree had to be illegal a legal move about above everything else. Probably something about the way the contract was drawn up with the other band members that he felt like he had to get out of. Because we need to face at least one fact. Steven Wilson was Porcupine Tree before any of the other band members even came on board. I don't know why he felt like he lost control somewhere along the line, but obviously he felt like he had lost 100% creative control and he wanted that back.

I agree. We know for a fact that he wanted nothing to do with the live CD that came after The Incident. The move to Roadrunner seems to have soured him quite a bit.

UGH....didn't realize my talk to text had blown it that badly.       I have included corrections which were most likely obvious, but it still bothered me.

[Super Dude]

Well, SW's catalogue for close to the last 20 years is loaded with catchy, potentially radio-friendly "pop" songs, so I'd be surprised if he was really bothered too much by that.  Writing catchy choruses is one of his greatest strengths.

Yeah, I'll be honest, I probably wouldn't have even bothered with PT if not for catchy songs like Trains and Shallow.

[Zantera]

Interesting to see he's not big on Deadwing and Lightbulb Sun, given both of those albums have some incredible things going on.

With Deadwing I know he has been outspoken about Shallow and his feeling on it was that they were either asked by the label to write a hit single or they tried to do it by themselves and it just didn't come off the way he wanted. With Lightbulb Sun I don't remember 100%, but I think it was for similar reasons, with some songs like 4 Chords That Made a Million or Shesmovedon also being more towards that "let's write a single" territory.

[jammindude]

Well, SW's catalogue for close to the last 20 years is loaded with catchy, potentially radio-friendly "pop" songs, so I'd be surprised if he was really bothered too much by that.  Writing catchy choruses is one of his greatest strengths.

You're arguing with the man himself now.  He's the one who said that in the interview.

[KevShmev]

Right, but I guess what I mean is, the difference lies with intent. Writing catchy songs comes naturally to SW, but when he is doing because of pressure or anything, he tends to be put off by that, even if the results are still good, tainting his view of the end result.

[seasonsinthesky]

Right, but I guess what I mean is, the difference lies with intent. Writing catchy songs comes naturally to SW, but when he is doing because of pressure or anything, he tends to be put off by that, even if the results are still good, tainting his view of the end result.

I think that conclusion is well supported when he now does his own radio edits. He recognizes very well when his material is potentially radio-friendly – AFTER he makes it the way he wanted to make it.

[axeman90210]

Kind of assumed this was the case, but still a bummer to see it confirmed. I hope there's at least a tour a few years down the road. For me there's a chunk of time where SW was putting out some of my favorite music on the planet, basically PT from Lightbulb Sun through FOABP and I also include the first two Blackfield albums in there. Then I found The Incident to be pretty meh, and the less said about Blackfield after the second album the better. I grabbed Insurgentes when it came out, and every year or two I spin it and always feel like it's a chore to make it through the whole album. Just don't really care for his solo stuff, which is a shame because I wouldn't mind seeing his band in action.

[TL]

As someone who was definitely a bigger fan of the PT era, but has also enjoyed some of his solo stuff;

It's not particularly surprising (as has been said, I think we all knew this has basically been the case for a while), but it's still a bummer to hear it so explicitly stated.

On the one hand, it's his career, and if he felt like PT was done and it was time to move on, that's absolutely his call. I do wish he had been clearer about bringing the band to an end instead of being vague and stringing people along for years, but whatever.

On the other hand, I feel like his attitude toward the band (even if he was the main creative force in it), and especially towards his former bandmates, is a bit shitty. Maybe behind the scenes everything between them is all hunky dory, but any time it comes up publicly, he comes across as very dismissive. It's weird.

Oh well.

[hefdaddy42]

Oh well.

[KevShmev]

I grabbed Insurgentes when it came out, and every year or two I spin it and always feel like it's a chore to make it through the whole album. 

I agree. Don't get me wrong, I like Insurgentes a lot, but I think it's a rare SW album where the parts are better than the sum, in a manner of speaking.  I think six of the songs are really good/great, with the other four being solid or good, yet it is tough to listen to the album from start to finish. On the flip side, if most of the songs pop up on a shuffle playlist I make, they all sound better in that instance. Not sure why that is, but it's something I've noticed.

[The Letter M]

I remember reading about SW's feelings on the odd-numbered albums versus the even-numbered ones, and immediately thought about the Star Trek films, where in fans say the even ones are the better ones (Wrath of Khan, Voyage Home, Undiscovered Country, First Contact...though Nemesis wasn't that great IMO), and the odd-numbered ones were pretty meh.

I suppose for Porcupine Tree, it'd be the opposite, and I tend to agree. After the first two albums, the even ones are almost all of my favorites - The Sky Moves Sideways, Stupid Dream, In Absentia, and Fear Of A Blank Planet are easily my Top 4 PT albums, I think, or at least in the top half (maybe with Deadwing in there, too). Oddly enough, those four albums all have a significant amount of blue on their album covers (coincidence?). The evens, however, have more of a reds/browns/yellows hue to them, with the last two being more muted and in greys, which is odd, especially in contrast to the blue-ish albums between them.

-Marc.