Author Topic: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.  (Read 71152 times)

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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #140 on: August 19, 2016, 05:59:05 AM »
Michael Moore was on The Kelly File a while back, and he and Megyn Kelly had a very nice interview and conversation.  Both come off very well. :tup :tup

There are so many ways to respond to that.

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #141 on: August 19, 2016, 08:42:04 AM »
Trump's campaign has gone completely off the rails.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-37134440

US election: Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort quits


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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #142 on: August 19, 2016, 02:19:54 PM »
In the news here as well.

The revolving door in Trump's campaign team.
Hey dude slow the fuck down so we can finish together at the same time.  :biggrin:
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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #143 on: August 19, 2016, 02:29:07 PM »
You can say all the bad things you want about his campaign, it's true, the revolving doors don't make things look good.  But for him, I think the last 24 hours have been some of his best actually.

http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/trump-takes-role-president-hard-hit-louisiana/

Pretty favorable article towards Trump, but this is one of those areas where I always thought Trump was weak.  Like would he be able to give a heartfelt speech after a school shooting?  Would he be able to make a grieving wife of a soldier feel comfort after her husband died protecting the country?  I always thought he might not be able to do those things.  He proved me wrong today.

Offline El Barto

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #144 on: August 19, 2016, 02:55:03 PM »
You can say all the bad things you want about his campaign, it's true, the revolving doors don't make things look good.  But for him, I think the last 24 hours have been some of his best actually.

http://www.lifezette.com/polizette/trump-takes-role-president-hard-hit-louisiana/

Pretty favorable biased article towards Trump, but this is one of those areas where I always thought Trump was weak.  Like would he be able to give a heartfelt speech after a school shooting?  Would he be able to make a grieving wife of a soldier feel comfort after her husband died protecting the country?  I always thought he might not be able to do those things.  He proved me wrong today.
The very first picture tells you all you need to know about the credibility of the article.

In any case, this thing is pretty rotten when you get right down to it for the double-standards going on. When Sean Penn was down there actually rescuing people the republicans ridiculed him for being an opportunist and media hog. When Trump goes down there to glad-hand and sign autographs he's a wonderful human being. I fully appreciate the benefit of moral support, and I have no doubt that he's lifting the spirits of some people who've been dumped on far too often. I just don't think this is worthy of heaping praise on him. As for Obama, he's right to stay away. If it takes 50 local LEO to assist with protection duty, that's fifty guys who aren't out helping others. It's a tragic waste of resources.

By way of comparison, when Obama was in Dallas after all those cops got shot, three neighboring communities sent volunteer officers over to handle that aspect as the DPD wasn't really able or inclined to dick with it. Had they not done that, I suspect Obama would have been asked to stay way then, just as he was in LA.

As for Hillary, verdicts still out on that. This might be a real slight on her part. It really depends on how much of a distraction political photo-ops are. If she didn't require added local security, then yeah, she should have made an appearance. Like I said, moral support matters.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #145 on: August 20, 2016, 07:04:33 AM »
Sean Penn is an opportunist and a media hog.  Just wanted to put that out there.  :)

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #146 on: August 20, 2016, 07:46:06 AM »
Sean Penn is an opportunist and a media hog.  Just wanted to put that out there.  :)

Well, yeah.  I roll my eyes big time at any actor who gets too mouthy with politics and whatnot. It's like, make your movies and shut up.  Penn is at the top of the list with Clooney and Affleck (who has turned into a raging d-bag over the years) as far as actors who take themselves way too seriously in regards to this kind of thing.

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #147 on: August 20, 2016, 12:23:41 PM »
Sean Penn is an opportunist and a media hog.  Just wanted to put that out there.  :)

A perfectly brilliant actor ruining it by opening his whiny liberal mouth.

Offline Progmetty

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #148 on: August 20, 2016, 02:30:27 PM »
I've noticed that repeatedly all over the internet, celebrities suck if they voice their opinions, unless they happen to be the right opinions then they're all right. DiCaprio, Affleck and Damon should shut up and make their movies but Ted Nugent, he's got the right idea, you tell 'em Nug! it's okay for him to voice his opinions.
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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #149 on: August 20, 2016, 02:35:57 PM »
I can't recall ever seeing anyone say something positive about Ted Nugent.
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #150 on: August 20, 2016, 03:01:56 PM »
Not here, I'm just mentioning something I've noticed all over social media. For a small example that's easy to look through, check out the replies on any Blabbermouth or Loud wire article on Nugent's political quotes and check out replies on any comments by a liberal musician.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #151 on: August 20, 2016, 03:05:00 PM »
Ugh, reading replies to a Blabbermouth articles has to be as bad as reading comments on YT videos. :facepalm: :lol


Offline Progmetty

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #152 on: August 20, 2016, 04:11:01 PM »
Agreed of course, I could have brought that up as an example as well but as bad as they are; they do exist and they are many so they are significant, IMO.
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #153 on: August 20, 2016, 06:44:08 PM »
I've noticed that repeatedly all over the internet, celebrities suck if they voice their opinions, unless they happen to be the right opinions then they're all right. DiCaprio, Affleck and Damon should shut up and make their movies but Ted Nugent, he's got the right idea, you tell 'em Nug! it's okay for him to voice his opinions.

Ted Nugent is entertaining. Ironically, Ben Affleck is supposed to be an actor but I don't find him entertaining at all. The difference is that Ted rebuts people who attack him and come at him for what he belives, and he has his own radio show. Those other three will start proselytizing on an Academy Award stage during an acceptance speech.

Offline Progmetty

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #154 on: August 20, 2016, 07:53:28 PM »
That is their stage, if he could run his mouth at the Academy Award stage do you think he'll hold back? But that's not what this is about, it's about the loser perspective of denying people opinions just cause there careers are not "serious" enough or because they are not politicians so they don't know enough to form an opinion or for whatever reason they tell themselves and others, it's not any of this, it's butt hurt people that celebrities who project their opinion don't have as much exposure as those who project opposing opinions. They're saying "just do your thing and don't talk about this" but that is bull shit, the very statement is bull shit and you know if the shoe was on the other foot they would have totally hailed these celebrities.
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #155 on: August 20, 2016, 08:12:49 PM »
That is their stage, if he could run his mouth at the Academy Award stage do you think he'll hold back? But that's not what this is about, it's about the loser perspective of denying people opinions just cause there careers are not "serious" enough or because they are not politicians so they don't know enough to form an opinion or for whatever reason they tell themselves and others, it's not any of this, it's butt hurt people that celebrities who project their opinion don't have as much exposure as those who project opposing opinions. They're saying "just do your thing and don't talk about this" but that is bull shit, the very statement is bull shit and you know if the shoe was on the other foot they would have totally hailed these celebrities.

It's hypocritical. People who are more right wing in Hollywood are definitely more ostracized, with very few exceptions. There is such political bias in Hollywood, it's ridiculous, so I don't think people should be complaining about someone like Ted Nugent being vociferous with his opinions. The problem is that these Hollywood libtards are so self-righteous that they think their shit don't stink. I could care less if Matt Damon thinks guns are bad (oh the irony there) or Leonardo DiCaprio wants to go on political rants on the awards stage, but don't get all pissy when someone wants to have an opposing opinion. They're hypocrites.

Offline Progmetty

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #156 on: August 20, 2016, 08:20:45 PM »
but don't get all pissy when someone wants to have an opposing opinion. They're hypocrites.

Thus we agree, if I understand your post correctly.
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #157 on: August 20, 2016, 08:39:17 PM »
Well, I think we both agree that discounting someone's opinion because it opposes your own is hypocritical. However, I don't think we agree in that the liberals in Hollywood are far more hypocritical when it comes to accepting opposing opinions.

Offline El Barto

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #158 on: August 20, 2016, 11:19:11 PM »
I've noticed that repeatedly all over the internet, celebrities suck if they voice their opinions, unless they happen to be the right opinions then they're all right. DiCaprio, Affleck and Damon should shut up and make their movies but Ted Nugent, he's got the right idea, you tell 'em Nug! it's okay for him to voice his opinions.

Ted Nugent is entertaining. Ironically, Ben Affleck is supposed to be an actor but I don't find him entertaining at all. The difference is that Ted rebuts people who attack him and come at him for what he belives, and he has his own radio show. Those other three will start proselytizing on an Academy Award stage during an acceptance speech.
I suppose if Ted's artistic talent ever earns him a national audience at an awards show we'll see how he uses his time. He's probably got an NRA lifetime achievement award coming up pretty soon. The truth is that the Afflecks and Penns of the world are talented actors who use their free time to preach to lefties. Nugent is a conservative talk show host who co-wrote some great songs back when I was 8. They both try to use their recognition as a means to tell people what they think. I honestly got no problem with either of them.

How that relates to Penn going to disaster areas and trying to help out is beyond me. People are real quick to dismiss his actions because of what they think of his politics. I'm not out to canonize the guy or anything, but ridiculing him while praising Trump for a couple of hours of glad-handing is damned petty.
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #159 on: August 20, 2016, 11:45:32 PM »
Well, I think we both agree that discounting someone's opinion because it opposes your own is hypocritical.

Yeah, that's what I was talking about originally in my post.

However, I don't think we agree in that the liberals in Hollywood are far more hypocritical when it comes to accepting opposing opinions.

That's a different topic IMO, I'm on the fence on whether or not that's true. I think most liberal celebrities fight back against opposing opinions through irony and sarcasm and the more tolerant ones fight back by trying to implement logic and discussion that's based on facts and then some are just douchebags who'd belittle the opposing opinion and verge on intellectual bulling of some sort, these are awful I agree. But the first two types are the majority, I feel. And they're often met with frustration from most conservatives instead of countering their methods with similar ones, "Oh why can't you just accept that I have my opinion", well this has nothing to do with acceptance, we're in the same boat and your opinion clashes with mine so I wanna hash it out, why would it be case closed that we disagree? Well okay case closed from your end then but I'm still gonna say shit!
I've noticed that also on normal people level here in the U.S., I was excited about discussing politics and history with people and when I finally got an office job -I used to travel a lot in my job- I got to get closer to a bunch of people on daily basis. I've noticed liberals and leftists could be dismissive of your opinions but would still get into it with you while Republicans and conservatives are more dismissive of the discussion itself. I was more anxious to talk to Republicans here in the U.S. cause the American T.V. I've watched from back home had painted them in a light that I felt was unrealistic for people who live in a first world country, I remember one of the first discussions I've had with a Republican at my work here ,was bout gun control I think, and it ended with him saying "Well opinions are like assholes, everybody's got one! haha", I wanted to say but you really haven't countered the case I was making even though I countered yours but I felt he wanted to end at that note with the joke he made so laughed with him and that was that. Nice guy in all aspects though, he's an ex-vet that carries a gun under his truck seat because he's "got it on good authority that ISIL is already here and going for ex-vets first" yet he'd be the one warning me if the refried beans were made with pork fat when we went for group lunches at work.
I think conservatives like you and Stadler are uncommon and things would be nicer if you weren't, you have more buffer space for a give and take process and that's always refreshing even if there's no immediate resolutions to the discussions, at least people get to understand each other better and have empathy, but I digress.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #160 on: August 21, 2016, 08:35:14 AM »
praising Trump for a couple of hours of glad-handing is damned petty.

That's the second time you've said he was just there 'glad handing'. I guess the 18 wheeler of supplies that he arranged to head down there doesn't count for anything, or the $$ he donated to the relief cause? Besides....WHEN obama decides to end his vacation of golfing and surfing and shows up for a 15 minuted press conference....all he'll be doing is a photo op? Speaking of Hillary...that was a really sweet tweet she sent out....I'm sure that'll warm the hearts of everyone. I'm not naive enough to think that Trump didn't use this occasion for a bit of publicity as well, but he certainly looked more Presidential in this crisis than either the vacationer in chief and the sociopath he's running against.

 Friggin' Bush was lambasted for Katria despite warning the region DAYS in advance that the storm was of historic levels.....yet, obama is getting to use a bit of hillary's free pass on his 'response'...err....non-existent response to this disaster. I get he's a lame duck and doesn't give a holy heck about anything right now unless a black kid gets shot by a white cop....then he'll do what he did when mike brown got shot and cut his vacation short and skip a round of golf to lecture America.....but this is just another example of just how horrid a "leader" he is. The whole defense of him 'wasting' local manpower and resources is a croc-o-crap defense as well. He absolutely could have shown up had he given a   :censored ....but he doesn't and I know that by way of simple observation. True leaders show up in instances like this...obama has never been a true leader, he's always been a counterfeit.



And as far as the celebrities go....they are in a whole different world than "normal" people. Speaking of elite and social classes....they operate on an entirely different level. It's comical to me to get lectured to about guns from guys like Penn and Damon and Affleck who have made shit tons of money off of exploiting them, or getting corrected and tutored on the environment by guys like DeCaprio who's Carbon Footprint would take me six lifetimes to match. STFU and make your movies....sing your songs....and live in your "special" reality where everyone else is beneath you.
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Offline Progmetty

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #161 on: August 21, 2016, 09:16:21 AM »
Well there you go  :)
So I'm not clear on whether or not Gary Johnson will be allowed to debate, is it still possible?
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Offline El Barto

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #163 on: August 21, 2016, 11:36:09 AM »
praising Trump for a couple of hours of glad-handing is damned petty.

That's the second time you've said he was just there 'glad handing'. I guess the 18 wheeler of supplies that he arranged to head down there doesn't count for anything, or the $$ he donated to the relief cause? Besides....WHEN obama decides to end his vacation of golfing and surfing and shows up for a 15 minuted press conference....all he'll be doing is a photo op? Speaking of Hillary...that was a really sweet tweet she sent out....I'm sure that'll warm the hearts of everyone. I'm not naive enough to think that Trump didn't use this occasion for a bit of publicity as well, but he certainly looked more Presidential in this crisis than either the vacationer in chief and the sociopath he's running against.

 Friggin' Bush was lambasted for Katria despite warning the region DAYS in advance that the storm was of historic levels.....yet, obama is getting to use a bit of hillary's free pass on his 'response'...err....non-existent response to this disaster. I get he's a lame duck and doesn't give a holy heck about anything right now unless a black kid gets shot by a white cop....then he'll do what he did when mike brown got shot and cut his vacation short and skip a round of golf to lecture America.....but this is just another example of just how horrid a "leader" he is. The whole defense of him 'wasting' local manpower and resources is a croc-o-crap defense as well. He absolutely could have shown up had he given a   :censored ....but he doesn't and I know that by way of simple observation. True leaders show up in instances like this...obama has never been a true leader, he's always been a counterfeit.



And as far as the celebrities go....they are in a whole different world than "normal" people. Speaking of elite and social classes....they operate on an entirely different level. It's comical to me to get lectured to about guns from guys like Penn and Damon and Affleck who have made shit tons of money off of exploiting them, or getting corrected and tutored on the environment by guys like DeCaprio who's Carbon Footprint would take me six lifetimes to match. STFU and make your movies....sing your songs....and live in your "special" reality where everyone else is beneath you.
I've asked for examples of Trump doing something helpful, and you've finally given one. I don't honestly give him many points for the cash, as writing a check is a freebee for him, but a truck full of supplies would certainly be helpful. But my problem really isn't with him glad-handing, but the double-standard people are making between him and Penn. They both contribute in their own way, yet one's a publicity whore and the other "looks presidential." And quite frankly, if it had been Hillary signing autographs and writing checks, and not Trump, you'd be blasting her for the self-promotion.

As for Obama and Bush, they were both right to stay away. Bush was also on vacation, if you recall, but their arrivals would have been a tragic diversion of resources. The reason Bush got blasted all to hell, and nowhere near enough, in my opinion, was for failing to act when everybody knew it was coming days in advance. I had a discussion 4 days before landfall about how NO was absolutely fucking doomed. Appropriate federal aid didn't get put into motion until after it was too late. Hell, the freaking Cubans offered up help that would have beaten US disaster relief by several days.

I never called Bush a racist for letting black folk die in Katrina. I don't fault him for flying over on the way home from Crawford. I do consider Katrina a textbook example of typical Bush incompetence.
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #164 on: August 21, 2016, 12:16:13 PM »
It's exceedingly hypocritical to criticize Trump for the way he does things but ignore people on the opposing side for doing the same thing, and sometimes even worse. It's as if only right wing politicians and supporters are capable of doing bad or have alterior motives for their altruistic inclinations. I laugh every time I see someone say Trump did this but he can write it off, so it means nothing, yet everyone gives Oprah a fingerbang for all of her good deeds that she gets to write off as well. It shows just how brainwashed some people are and how biased political discussions reveal themselves to be. For every wrong thing Trump has done, which aren't many since he has spent limited time in the political crosshairs, much like our current President before he was nominated, I'll show you worse from the other side. When I see people spend the same time attacking the questionable motives of the left wing politicians, and don't even try and tell me Trump is worse than them, then I can unequivocally say that the discussion is bipartisan. Trump has said a lot of ridiculous things, but how about speaking of the actual actions of your left wing nominee, along with the others. I've seen every excuse in the book for her and it's risible. My favorite is that because the government didn't find sufficient evidence she is probably innocent. Right, because the government would never lie to us. All I have seen are one-sided arguments from people who claim to call it how they see it or claim they don't fully like either candidate. However, it's as believable as an honest politician with a blank check.

Offline El Barto

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #165 on: August 21, 2016, 01:03:20 PM »
It's exceedingly hypocritical to criticize Trump for the way he does things but ignore people on the opposing side for doing the same thing, and sometimes even worse. It's as if only right wing politicians and supporters are capable of doing bad or have alterior motives for their altruistic inclinations. I laugh every time I see someone say Trump did this but he can write it off, so it means nothing, yet everyone gives Oprah a fingerbang for all of her good deeds that she gets to write off as well. It shows just how brainwashed some people are and how biased political discussions reveal themselves to be. For every wrong thing Trump has done, which aren't many since he has spent limited time in the political crosshairs, much like our current President before he was nominated, I'll show you worse from the other side. When I see people spend the same time attacking the questionable motives of the left wing politicians, and don't even try and tell me Trump is worse than them, then I can unequivocally say that the discussion is bipartisan. Trump has said a lot of ridiculous things, but how about speaking of the actual actions of your left wing nominee, along with the others. I've seen every excuse in the book for her and it's risible. My favorite is that because the government didn't find sufficient evidence she is probably innocent. Right, because the government would never lie to us. All I have seen are one-sided arguments from people who claim to call it how they see it or claim they don't fully like either candidate. However, it's as believable as an honest politician with a blank check.
I agree. But then I haven't been criticizing Trump. As I said earlier, even if all he did was glad-hand and sign autographs, I'm a firm believer in the benefit of moral support. As long as he didn't create a diversion of personnel I commend him for going down there. I don't think it's Trump and his fans who are the victims of hypocrisy, though. I do suspect they're the ones that ridiculed Penn for his efforts, though, while holding up St. Donald as an icon of presidential demeanor.

You tell me, were Penn's actions any less commendable than Trump's?
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #166 on: August 21, 2016, 01:08:36 PM »
I do consider Katrina a textbook example of typical Bush incompetence.

Wasn't it more a failure of FEMA and our Federal Governments inability to be prepared for that massive of a natural disaster? Bush was the Pres. and the glaring incompetency's of our ability to respond Federally were exposed on his shift so by default he has to take some of the hit.....but I think that the issues we saw with the response to Katrina Federally had been there all along but given we'd never faced that magnitude of disaster and the circumstances surrounding it, those issues remained unknown until it was too late.

And quite frankly, if it had been Hillary signing autographs and writing checks, and not Trump, you'd be blasting her for the self-promotion. 


It's tough to say for me. If the same info. were presented for Hillary and she had arranged a semi truck of supplies, met it down there and handed them out and cut a check out of her own $$....I hope I'd at least give her credit for that. I tell you what, it'd have done nothing but help her image and maybe shifted some opinions of her.

 But alas she didn't....and my opinion as to why is because she's doing what she's done all along thus far and that is answering as little questions as possible, doing as little interviews and public meetings as possible.....all aided by the clearly biased media in an effort to keep as little as possible about anything she says or does off of the airwaves in the hopes that Trump will hang himself with the rope he's being given. Up to this point it's worked...it's smart. We shall see if Trump catches on to that, and can fight his impulse to hang himself.
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Offline gmillerdrake

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #167 on: August 21, 2016, 01:12:51 PM »
You tell me, were Penn's actions any less commendable than Trump's?

I don't think so. It be great if what he did ended with his kind actions...but they don't. Those actions are near always followed by a pious lecture from a quaint interview.....

 My personal problem with Penn are his countless political statements about America and how horrible we are.....all the while he's built quite a nice life for himself thanks to this 'horrible' country. He and the rest of Hollywood live in a completely different world than the rest of humanity and think that when they decide to champion a cause or come down from their palace and walk with the commoners that what they have to say should be treated as a great gift to mankind.
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #168 on: August 21, 2016, 01:16:05 PM »
It's exceedingly hypocritical to criticize Trump for the way he does things but ignore people on the opposing side for doing the same thing, and sometimes even worse. It's as if only right wing politicians and supporters are capable of doing bad or have alterior motives for their altruistic inclinations. I laugh every time I see someone say Trump did this but he can write it off, so it means nothing, yet everyone gives Oprah a fingerbang for all of her good deeds that she gets to write off as well. It shows just how brainwashed some people are and how biased political discussions reveal themselves to be. For every wrong thing Trump has done, which aren't many since he has spent limited time in the political crosshairs, much like our current President before he was nominated, I'll show you worse from the other side. When I see people spend the same time attacking the questionable motives of the left wing politicians, and don't even try and tell me Trump is worse than them, then I can unequivocally say that the discussion is bipartisan. Trump has said a lot of ridiculous things, but how about speaking of the actual actions of your left wing nominee, along with the others. I've seen every excuse in the book for her and it's risible. My favorite is that because the government didn't find sufficient evidence she is probably innocent. Right, because the government would never lie to us. All I have seen are one-sided arguments from people who claim to call it how they see it or claim they don't fully like either candidate. However, it's as believable as an honest politician with a blank check.
I agree. But then I haven't been criticizing Trump. As I said earlier, even if all he did was glad-hand and sign autographs, I'm a firm believer in the benefit of moral support. As long as he didn't create a diversion of personnel I commend him for going down there. I don't think it's Trump and his fans who are the victims of hypocrisy, though. I do suspect they're the ones that ridiculed Penn for his efforts, though, while holding up St. Donald as an icon of presidential demeanor.

You tell me, were Penn's actions any less commendable than Trump's?

Not at all. Personally, I think Trump has more to gain by going down there with his hand extended, but that doesn't mean it was completely selfish either.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #169 on: August 21, 2016, 01:20:07 PM »


 My personal problem with Penn are his countless political statements about America and how horrible we are.....all the while he's built quite a nice life for himself thanks to this 'horrible' country. He and the rest of Hollywood live in a completely different world than the rest of humanity and think that when they decide to champion a cause or come down from their palace and walk with the commoners that what they have to say should be treated as a great gift to mankind.

That's a problem I have with a lot of liberals these days. They act like we still live in a society that is largely racist, homophobic, etc., yet there they were at the DNC talking like America is so great and perfect the way it is.  I get that it was a counterpoint to Trump's over the top "make America great again" mantra, but it comes off as more political BS.

Offline El Barto

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #170 on: August 21, 2016, 02:30:31 PM »
I do consider Katrina a textbook example of typical Bush incompetence.

Wasn't it more a failure of FEMA and our Federal Governments inability to be prepared for that massive of a natural disaster? Bush was the Pres. and the glaring incompetency's of our ability to respond Federally were exposed on his shift so by default he has to take some of the hit.....but I think that the issues we saw with the response to Katrina Federally had been there all along but given we'd never faced that magnitude of disaster and the circumstances surrounding it, those issues remained unknown until it was too late.
The impending disaster was clear enough and severe enough that it required guidance from the highest level very early on. This isn't something that you blame on the night-shift assistant supervisor in the Des Moines field office of the FEMA. Katrina was tantamount to China declaring war on the state of Louisiana. If the governor says he can handle it you don't believe him, and you don't just count on the LNG to fight them off. The time to mobilize is when you get the ultimatum. Not once they've landed on the beachhead.




 My personal problem with Penn are his countless political statements about America and how horrible we are.....all the while he's built quite a nice life for himself thanks to this 'horrible' country. He and the rest of Hollywood live in a completely different world than the rest of humanity and think that when they decide to champion a cause or come down from their palace and walk with the commoners that what they have to say should be treated as a great gift to mankind.

That's a problem I have with a lot of liberals these days. They act like we still live in a society that is largely racist, homophobic, etc., yet there they were at the DNC talking like America is so great and perfect the way it is.  I get that it was a counterpoint to Trump's over the top "make America great again" mantra, but it comes off as more political BS.
As long as we're generalizing, my problem with conservatives is a complete inability or unwillingness to differentiate between criticism and contempt. If you and I were to discuss over a beer the quality of education and healthcare in this country, we'd both agree that they're pretty fucking awful. Yet if liberal says as much publicly it's because he hates America; the lousy ingrate.
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #171 on: August 21, 2016, 07:15:10 PM »


 My personal problem with Penn are his countless political statements about America and how horrible we are.....all the while he's built quite a nice life for himself thanks to this 'horrible' country. He and the rest of Hollywood live in a completely different world than the rest of humanity and think that when they decide to champion a cause or come down from their palace and walk with the commoners that what they have to say should be treated as a great gift to mankind.

That's a problem I have with a lot of liberals these days. They act like we still live in a society that is largely racist, homophobic, etc., yet there they were at the DNC talking like America is so great and perfect the way it is.  I get that it was a counterpoint to Trump's over the top "make America great again" mantra, but it comes off as more political BS.
As long as we're generalizing, my problem with conservatives is a complete inability or unwillingness to differentiate between criticism and contempt. If you and I were to discuss over a beer the quality of education and healthcare in this country, we'd both agree that they're pretty fucking awful. Yet if liberal says as much publicly it's because he hates America; the lousy ingrate.

Agreed.  Liberals seem to dislike a lot of what America is and want to change it, and conservatives seem to love what America used to be (and still is on some levels) and are fighting like hell to not let it slip away, generally speaking.  And both go overboard in their own direction trying to get their way. 

Offline Progmetty

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #172 on: August 21, 2016, 07:15:23 PM »
As long as we're generalizing, my problem with conservatives is a complete inability or unwillingness to differentiate between criticism and contempt.

That's what my above posts would have said if I was better at English writing instead of all the rambling  :lol, I agree.
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Offline Stadler

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #173 on: August 22, 2016, 08:30:55 AM »
Not here, I'm just mentioning something I've noticed all over social media. For a small example that's easy to look through, check out the replies on any Blabbermouth or Loud wire article on Nugent's political quotes and check out replies on any comments by a liberal musician.

Are you joking?  Do you ever read Rolling Confirmation Bias Magazine?  (You might know it as "Rolling Stone").   DiCaprio, Affleck, et al. are considered rational, common-sense truth tellers, and Nugent is openly mocked as a fucking lunatic.   RS actually bankrolled Penn's recent reckless, borderline illegal trip to Mexico to "interview" El Chapo.  Springsteen - who openly campaigns for liberal candidates - is considered, now, the "voice of America" by many.   John Mellencamp is considered a legend and an icon, and he's as far left as you can go and still call yourself "Democrat".   Stipe.  Petty.  Young (Neil).  And I'm not even including the Europeans (Martin, Bono, Sting, Gabriel...)  All revered at least in part due to their political bent. 

To voice legitimate Conservative opinions as a major artist (music or theater) is to make yourself a pariah.   
« Last Edit: August 22, 2016, 08:43:22 AM by Stadler »

Offline Stadler

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Re: 2016 Presidential Race v2.0: Post convention discussion.
« Reply #174 on: August 22, 2016, 08:43:02 AM »
Well, I think we both agree that discounting someone's opinion because it opposes your own is hypocritical. However, I don't think we agree in that the liberals in Hollywood are far more hypocritical when it comes to accepting opposing opinions.

I'm usually the first to discount cries of "hypocrisy"; I think that label is over-used and it's importance overblown, but I think it is appropriately applied to Hollywood.  These people are, by and large, ridiculous in their politics and their policies.   Perhaps "hypocrisy" isn't the exact right word, but there is an element of self-indulgence in their politics that really makes me scratch my head.   The pandering of sex and violence on screen while decrying it's presence in real life.   The neo-socialist economic viewpoint (it's not really "socialist"; but it's a good word to create perspective) while their entire existence is based on the most cruel version of free market capitalism.    The judgmental viewpoint that somehow the bubble they live in is indicative of the world at large (the underlying ideology that spawned the "Limousine Liberal" moniker).    The almost Olympian-level ability to turn a blind eye to levels of abuse and recklessness with regards to the children of Hollywood (it's no coincidence that the epicenter of the multibillion dollar porn industry is right outside Hollywood, and while I'm all about libertarian values, you cannot tell me that those glassy-eyed, overly-made up young girls are ALL their as a matter of choice and free will)...   

It's easy (and FUN!) to make fun of the zealous conservative - listen to Ted go!  He's a NUT! - but your liberal next door neighbor and Richard Gere or Meryl Streep are WORLDS apart, just like I'm WORLDS apart from Ted.