Author Topic: New DT Tour dates  (Read 23261 times)

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Offline SeRoX

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #525 on: November 27, 2016, 10:54:28 AM »


DT just needs to stop pretending they're the virile band of the 80s, and write melodies for their singer he can sing live.

I will forever disagree with this 100%.  The advantage of the studio over the live environment is you can do things you might not be able to do live, and that includes difficult vocal parts.  In 20 years, almost no one is gonna care if JLB couldn't hit a particular vocal part that one time they saw him sing it live, but they'll still be listening to him kill it in the studio.

This. I'm 28 and maybe in my lifetime I can go 2-3 DT concert. But even in my older age I can listen their albums and James still rocks.
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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #526 on: November 27, 2016, 01:51:35 PM »
I guess I'm the only one here who doesn't take solace in other singers' equally poor live performance.

That wasn't the point I was making by bringing up Plant.

This was:
In 20 years, almost no one is gonna care if JLB couldn't hit a particular vocal part that one time they saw him sing it live, but they'll still be listening to him kill it in the studio.



 
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline El Barto

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #527 on: November 28, 2016, 10:35:21 AM »
I will forever disagree with this 100%.  The advantage of the studio over the live environment is you can do things you might not be able to do live, and that includes difficult vocal parts.  In 20 years, almost no one is gonna care if JLB couldn't hit a particular vocal part that one time they saw him sing it live, but they'll still be listening to him kill it in the studio.
And I couldn't disagree with this more. First off, people will remember his performances. I recall him nailing everything live 11 years ago at the Score show, and plenty of us think he was the star of that show. And if instead of nailing it he sounded like our regular Thursday night cat strangling, people would remember that just as much. Secondly, there's an honesty to a live performance that the studio lacks. I don't judge performers based on the best of 25 different takes. I judge them based on what they can realistically do. Look no further than Tony Martin and Lars Ulrich for examples of that. Lastly, I'm always a bigger fan of a live performance than a recorded one. There's a uniqueness that makes it special.
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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #528 on: November 28, 2016, 10:43:50 AM »
But Lars sucks both live and in the studio  :lol (the current Lars)
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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #529 on: December 08, 2016, 12:50:45 PM »
I generally agree with Rumborak here. I think discounting both studio releases and live performances are important, and neither exists (in most cases) void of the other. Dream Theater should, and I'm sure does care about what their live show is like, and ANY band at their age is going to have questions about what their singer can and cannot handle. That's just natural for any aging vocalist.

You gotta think about that, at least to some degree in the studio. At any age, but especially as singers get older, if you push them to the limits of their abilities in the studio now you are dooming them on the road 5-10 years in the future.

A bit of a related story, Shadow Gallery had 0 intentions of ever playing live. When they finally did start preparing for a live show I was told basically that "if we knew we'd ever have to do these vocal melodies live I don't think we'd have ever done them like this". They would alternate practice between full show practice, and a practice of just running through the vocals together.

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #530 on: December 08, 2016, 01:08:00 PM »

You gotta think about that, at least to some degree in the studio. At any age, but especially as singers get older, if you push them to the limits of their abilities in the studio now you are dooming them on the road 5-10 years in the future.


Tell that to Billy Joel   :lol

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #531 on: December 10, 2016, 12:45:12 PM »
I will forever disagree with this 100%.  The advantage of the studio over the live environment is you can do things you might not be able to do live, and that includes difficult vocal parts.  In 20 years, almost no one is gonna care if JLB couldn't hit a particular vocal part that one time they saw him sing it live, but they'll still be listening to him kill it in the studio.
And I couldn't disagree with this more. First off, people will remember his performances. I recall him nailing everything live 11 years ago at the Score show, and plenty of us think he was the star of that show. And if instead of nailing it he sounded like our regular Thursday night cat strangling, people would remember that just as much. Secondly, there's an honesty to a live performance that the studio lacks. I don't judge performers based on the best of 25 different takes. I judge them based on what they can realistically do. Look no further than Tony Martin and Lars Ulrich for examples of that. Lastly, I'm always a bigger fan of a live performance than a recorded one. There's a uniqueness that makes it special.
Not to boast about myself but I've been singing for 25 years and anything I've ever done in a studio I can replicate 100% live. In fact, its better live that the dryness of a studio recording. I go for notes live  I may have played safe in the studio.
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Offline ReaperKK

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #532 on: December 10, 2016, 05:31:19 PM »
Tick do you put your voice through as many performances in those years?

Offline TAC

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #533 on: December 10, 2016, 06:39:26 PM »
I will forever disagree with this 100%.  The advantage of the studio over the live environment is you can do things you might not be able to do live, and that includes difficult vocal parts.  In 20 years, almost no one is gonna care if JLB couldn't hit a particular vocal part that one time they saw him sing it live, but they'll still be listening to him kill it in the studio.
And I couldn't disagree with this more. First off, people will remember his performances. I recall him nailing everything live 11 years ago at the Score show, and plenty of us think he was the star of that show. And if instead of nailing it he sounded like our regular Thursday night cat strangling, people would remember that just as much. Secondly, there's an honesty to a live performance that the studio lacks. I don't judge performers based on the best of 25 different takes. I judge them based on what they can realistically do. Look no further than Tony Martin and Lars Ulrich for examples of that. Lastly, I'm always a bigger fan of a live performance than a recorded one. There's a uniqueness that makes it special.

While I lean towards Kev on this, I do see both sides. Obviously if JP or JR fucked up, it'd be quite a story.

Oddly, when I go into "DT Mode" I hardly ever go through the studio albums. I almost exclusively go through live albums and the bootlegs. Still, I'm forgiving of James. There are some horrific performances, and they are quite unlistenable. But I'm happy if he survives the show in one piece, and can generally get past a rough vocal patch.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #534 on: December 10, 2016, 07:17:34 PM »
I will forever disagree with this 100%.  The advantage of the studio over the live environment is you can do things you might not be able to do live, and that includes difficult vocal parts.  In 20 years, almost no one is gonna care if JLB couldn't hit a particular vocal part that one time they saw him sing it live, but they'll still be listening to him kill it in the studio.
And I couldn't disagree with this more. First off, people will remember his performances. I recall him nailing everything live 11 years ago at the Score show, and plenty of us think he was the star of that show. And if instead of nailing it he sounded like our regular Thursday night cat strangling, people would remember that just as much. Secondly, there's an honesty to a live performance that the studio lacks. I don't judge performers based on the best of 25 different takes. I judge them based on what they can realistically do. Look no further than Tony Martin and Lars Ulrich for examples of that. Lastly, I'm always a bigger fan of a live performance than a recorded one. There's a uniqueness that makes it special.

While I lean towards Kev on this, I do see both sides. Obviously if JP or JR fucked up, it'd be quite a story.

Oddly, when I go into "DT Mode" I hardly ever go through the studio albums. I almost exclusively go through live albums and the bootlegs. Still, I'm forgiving of James. There are some horrific performances, and they are quite unlistenable. But I'm happy if he survives the show in one piece, and can generally get past a rough vocal patch.

I kinda agree and disagree with both points  :lol
First, yes, you should use the advantages of the studio to create something greater and experiment much more, kinda what The Aristocrats did with their 3rd album, where they decided to stop thinking if they would be able to perform all the arrangements live just as a trio, and experimented a lot more adding layers of other thins they just can't play live without a backing track or an extra pair of arms  :biggrin: (I didn't like the album that much, though).

However, the live performances will definitely be remembered and, as it has already been said, they should consider which vocal parts are just too hard to hit live and change them or do something else, so James doesn't die trying to get it right every night. If the vocals suck for parts of the show, people will remember that and will leave the concert with a bad opinion on James, and that's never good.
Also, band's make most of their income with touring and merchandising, so they'll undoubtly spend more time touring than recording in the studio, they should be aware of that when they record so they don't dig their grave for the future tours.
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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #535 on: December 17, 2016, 09:51:16 AM »
Tick do you put your voice through as many performances in those years?
No not even close.
But my point is some vocalists don't even replicate the music in the studio very well at the very start of a tour. I get that a singer doing 50 dates is going to struggle as the tour goes on.
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Offline LudwigVan

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #536 on: December 22, 2016, 08:40:32 PM »
I will forever disagree with this 100%.  The advantage of the studio over the live environment is you can do things you might not be able to do live, and that includes difficult vocal parts.  In 20 years, almost no one is gonna care if JLB couldn't hit a particular vocal part that one time they saw him sing it live, but they'll still be listening to him kill it in the studio.
And I couldn't disagree with this more. First off, people will remember his performances. I recall him nailing everything live 11 years ago at the Score show, and plenty of us think he was the star of that show. And if instead of nailing it he sounded like our regular Thursday night cat strangling, people would remember that just as much. Secondly, there's an honesty to a live performance that the studio lacks. I don't judge performers based on the best of 25 different takes. I judge them based on what they can realistically do. Look no further than Tony Martin and Lars Ulrich for examples of that. Lastly, I'm always a bigger fan of a live performance than a recorded one. There's a uniqueness that makes it special.

While I lean towards Kev on this, I do see both sides. Obviously if JP or JR fucked up, it'd be quite a story.

Oddly, when I go into "DT Mode" I hardly ever go through the studio albums. I almost exclusively go through live albums and the bootlegs. Still, I'm forgiving of James. There are some horrific performances, and they are quite unlistenable. But I'm happy if he survives the show in one piece, and can generally get past a rough vocal patch.

I kinda agree and disagree with both points  :lol
First, yes, you should use the advantages of the studio to create something greater and experiment much more, kinda what The Aristocrats did with their 3rd album, where they decided to stop thinking if they would be able to perform all the arrangements live just as a trio, and experimented a lot more adding layers of other thins they just can't play live without a backing track or an extra pair of arms  :biggrin: (I didn't like the album that much, though).

However, the live performances will definitely be remembered and, as it has already been said, they should consider which vocal parts are just too hard to hit live and change them or do something else, so James doesn't die trying to get it right every night. If the vocals suck for parts of the show, people will remember that and will leave the concert with a bad opinion on James, and that's never good.
Also, band's make most of their income with touring and merchandising, so they'll undoubtly spend more time touring than recording in the studio, they should be aware of that when they record so they don't dig their grave for the future tours.

I can see both sides. It's all about your personal perspective. If you never get a chance to see DT live and only listen to their albums , then you won't care too much if JLB misses a few notes in a live setting. And 25 years down the line, the missed notes and bad pitch won't even matter when all that's left to judge for posterity are the studio albums, unless you're a bootleg geek that hangs on every blemish that's touched up by an overdub.

The extremes in this argument are that if the Beatles cared about reproducing their music in a live concert,they probably never woiu!d have made Sgt Peppers, Revolver or Abbey Road (and it should be noted that they stopped touring at this point anyway). The other extreme is when you get music that is so over produced and over dubbed that you get Milli Vanilli. Then it becomes a question of honesty.
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Offline TAC

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #537 on: December 23, 2016, 08:07:54 AM »
Yeah, your honesty.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #538 on: December 24, 2016, 06:31:52 AM »
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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #539 on: December 26, 2016, 12:34:50 PM »
I just don't understand why they keep writing stuff for him he obviously won't be able to deliver live.
Another, more current, example:.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YShCks2GfFo&feature=youtu.be&t=1180

And it's not just a bad night there, it was exactly like that in Boston too when I saw them live.

I'm glad I'm not the only one around here who thinks this. It's exactly what I was saying in this thread http://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=48829.630
« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 01:46:34 PM by Stewie »
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Offline noxon

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #540 on: December 26, 2016, 12:52:50 PM »
Because it's a couple of seconds of a song, and the rest of the album was performed great? Who cares if it doesn't sound perfect or accurate to what the album sounds like. James has been put down by fans since early on. It's not new.
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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #541 on: December 26, 2016, 01:40:59 PM »
Because it's a couple of seconds of a song, and the rest of the album was performed great? Who cares if it doesn't sound perfect or accurate to what the album sounds like. James has been put down by fans since early on. It's not new.

I'm not putting him down - I love JLB's vocals. I love all his studio work with DT, solo albums, and most of his live performances. I'm just saying they should start taking his current vocal limitations into account more from now on, that's all. He strained the entire way thru all three shows I saw on The Astonishing tour, and I felt really bad for him. I know he's talented; he's one of my favorite vocalists. But, to address your point - a lot of people care. When newer fans go to a show, and it ends up not sounding like the album in that regard, it has the potential to diminish their appreciation of the album. It's disappointing. When he struggles and strains to hit the notes, to the point where you can't even make out the lyrics - it's painful. It makes you feel bad for the guy, because, it's not really his fault - he's just at the mercy of his vocal chords, and it's natural for his range to be affected by his aging. Having said that, it really can drag down the rest of the band. Whether or not you agree, that's fine.

I'd also like to point out that I really enjoy The Astonishing album; I think it's brilliant. I just think that moving forward, when they're in the studio writing new material and coming up with melodies for James to sing - they might want to take a step back and consider how feasible it'll be to pull off live, night after night, especially at his age. That's all I'm saying. I am in no way knocking James, or the rest of them. They're my favorite band, and have been for over 20 years. I will continue to go to their shows, and I will continue to buy their music.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 01:53:57 PM by Stewie »
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Offline Vakaren

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #542 on: December 27, 2016, 12:54:23 AM »
Sorry your experiences were so bad Stewie. Fortunately mine were the opposite, and I saw more than a few shows on this tour. People were very impressed with JL's performance and more than one commented on how they must have done just what you are suggesting they do - that they did write to his current strengths because of how amazing he sounded.

I think they could have recorded quite a few shows on the tour and been able to put out a great dvd.

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #543 on: December 27, 2016, 10:19:25 AM »
It's true there aren't as many videos from this tour on YouTube, but I haven't found a single one where he sings that section well. Remember, if this were 2014, he would kill it throughout the tour. It's a shame, I've seen Dream Theater enough times live to be able to say he kicked it out of the park plenty of times, there were many flawless, wonderful performances, but something happened to his voice recently and we don't know what it is.

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #544 on: December 27, 2016, 10:54:32 AM »
but something happened to his voice recently and we don't know what it is.

It's called age and lots of touring. I don't think James is the problem, but rather the heavy touring cycle they have, they don't give his voice enough time to properly rest while on tour.
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Offline Vakaren

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #545 on: December 27, 2016, 12:17:01 PM »
I don't think anything happened to his voice at all. I saw a lot of shows and the general consensus ranged from him being very good, to great, to being the mvp of the whole show. No one was scratching their heads wondering what happened to his voice. One comment that has really stayed with me was that the person hoped James was getting paid enough (sort of joking) for bringing JP and JR's vision to life  - they're the ones who wrote it and have the writing credits, but he's the one conveying that to the audience.

Now, maybe that particular section is just tricky for him to sing live for whatever reason, whether he has a hard time hearing what he needs to hear or it's just harder than he thought it would be. I thought some nights sounded fine and some could have been better, but when you're there at the show and he doesn't nail it, it still doesn't come off badly most of the time. For some reason it mostly works.  I find it sad that he did such an amazing job night after night for 2 hours and 10 minutes, had a lot more singing time than usual, just about every one who I spoke to or overheard loved it, and in this thread it seems that people think he did a horrible job on the whole tour, mostly because of one small section. He did an incredible job from what I saw (which was both legs of the US tour).

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #546 on: December 27, 2016, 04:19:35 PM »
It's true there aren't as many videos from this tour on YouTube, but I haven't found a single one where he sings that section well.

I honestly don't think this part has anything to do with his age or touring.  This part never felt like JLB singing, but supposed to be Nefarius and JLB struggled to do this part.  He probably just should have done something different from the beginning that he could perform consistently live, I agree with that train of thought, but I don't think this part is any indication of JLB struggling overall.

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #547 on: December 27, 2016, 08:59:44 PM »
but something happened to his voice recently and we don't know what it is.

It's called age and lots of touring. I don't think James is the problem, but rather the heavy touring cycle they have, they don't give his voice enough time to properly rest while on tour.

That, and the fact that most of the vocal melodies they wrote for him on The Astonishing are simply way too high for his current range. I think the bottom line is they simply didn't think it thru. I'm surprised JLB was even okay with it, unless he was being waaaay optimistic.
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Offline Vakaren

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #548 on: December 27, 2016, 09:08:30 PM »
but something happened to his voice recently and we don't know what it is.

It's called age and lots of touring. I don't think James is the problem, but rather the heavy touring cycle they have, they don't give his voice enough time to properly rest while on tour.

That, and the fact that most of the vocal melodies they wrote for him on The Astonishing are simply way too high for his current range. I think the bottom line is they simply didn't think it thru. I'm surprised JLB was even okay with it, unless he was being waaaay optimistic.

I don't think that's correct at all. He did an amazing job on the tour and I think part of that is exactly because the material does fit his range.

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #549 on: December 28, 2016, 09:30:06 AM »
but something happened to his voice recently and we don't know what it is.

It's called age and lots of touring. I don't think James is the problem, but rather the heavy touring cycle they have, they don't give his voice enough time to properly rest while on tour.

That, and the fact that most of the vocal melodies they wrote for him on The Astonishing are simply way too high for his current range. I think the bottom line is they simply didn't think it thru. I'm surprised JLB was even okay with it, unless he was being waaaay optimistic.

I don't think that's correct at all. He did an amazing job on the tour and I think part of that is exactly because the material does fit his range.

Wow, okay. If you truly believe this, I'm baffled as fuck. Look up any of the youtube videos from this tour. ANY of them. There aren't many to choose from, granted, but no matter - look up "The Gift of Music", for example. Doesn't even matter from which city. On ALL of them he struggles throughout. He is consistently flat, and straining to reach the notes to the point where you can't even understand the lyrics. If you think that sounds "amazing", then you're either if fanboy denial mode, or tone deaf. If he did indeed sound great at the show you attended, fine. But that doesn't mean he did "amazing" on this tour. The fact of the matter is that he did not. And I know for a fact I'm not the only person who thinks this.
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Offline Mladen

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #550 on: December 28, 2016, 10:36:58 AM »
It's called age and lots of touring. I don't think James is the problem, but rather the heavy touring cycle they have, they don't give his voice enough time to properly rest while on tour.
That's possible, but then again, they only spent two months on tour during 2015. Not to mention he was absolutely tremendous throughout pretty much the entire 2014, even near the end.

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #551 on: December 28, 2016, 11:25:16 AM »
but something happened to his voice recently and we don't know what it is.

It's called age and lots of touring. I don't think James is the problem, but rather the heavy touring cycle they have, they don't give his voice enough time to properly rest while on tour.

That, and the fact that most of the vocal melodies they wrote for him on The Astonishing are simply way too high for his current range. I think the bottom line is they simply didn't think it thru. I'm surprised JLB was even okay with it, unless he was being waaaay optimistic.

I don't think that's correct at all. He did an amazing job on the tour and I think part of that is exactly because the material does fit his range.

Wow, okay. If you truly believe this, I'm baffled as fuck. Look up any of the youtube videos from this tour. ANY of them. There aren't many to choose from, granted, but no matter - look up "The Gift of Music", for example. Doesn't even matter from which city. On ALL of them he struggles throughout. He is consistently flat, and straining to reach the notes to the point where you can't even understand the lyrics. If you think that sounds "amazing", then you're either if fanboy denial mode, or tone deaf. If he did indeed sound great at the show you attended, fine. But that doesn't mean he did "amazing" on this tour. The fact of the matter is that he did not. And I know for a fact I'm not the only person who thinks this.

I don't think that's really necessary. I guess all the others who have posted that he sounded great at their shows are tone deaf as well? 

I suppose I should be more specific - I didn't see them in Europe or South America. I saw both US legs quite a few times, but I believe only after he'd had at least 3, maybe more, shows under his belt. (I've often heard that he seems to need a few to really start sounding good.) And I'll further clarify that by saying he did an amazing job (at not one but many shows) I don't mean to imply perfection. There were a couple things he usually struggled with, and certainly not everything was sung just like the record, but overall, for the course of the show, he sounded very good. No one turned to someone praising him after the show and said, "dude, you must be deaf, he sounded awful." The worst I heard was "he sounded good, but I don't like his voice that much" and that was a rare comment.

So I suppose neither of us has done a scientific study to determine how most attendees felt about his performance. But while you may know for a fact that others felt as you do, I know that many others don't. It's not a "fact" that he was bad the whole tour. I feel like the consensus at the shows I saw was very positive, and online as well - even the MP forum has lots of praise and they're not all JL's biggest fans.

Either way, I think it's a big stretch to say that it's a fact that "most" of the vocal melodies on the album are outside his range. There are a lot of melodies that aren't that high at all.

Side note - we're just talking here. I don't know you and am not trying to cause any offense, and apologize if I have. If we don't end up agreeing, so be it.

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #552 on: December 28, 2016, 09:44:45 PM »
but something happened to his voice recently and we don't know what it is.

It's called age and lots of touring. I don't think James is the problem, but rather the heavy touring cycle they have, they don't give his voice enough time to properly rest while on tour.

That, and the fact that most of the vocal melodies they wrote for him on The Astonishing are simply way too high for his current range. I think the bottom line is they simply didn't think it thru. I'm surprised JLB was even okay with it, unless he was being waaaay optimistic.

I don't think that's correct at all. He did an amazing job on the tour and I think part of that is exactly because the material does fit his range.

Wow, okay. If you truly believe this, I'm baffled as fuck. Look up any of the youtube videos from this tour. ANY of them. There aren't many to choose from, granted, but no matter - look up "The Gift of Music", for example. Doesn't even matter from which city. On ALL of them he struggles throughout. He is consistently flat, and straining to reach the notes to the point where you can't even understand the lyrics. If you think that sounds "amazing", then you're either if fanboy denial mode, or tone deaf. If he did indeed sound great at the show you attended, fine. But that doesn't mean he did "amazing" on this tour. The fact of the matter is that he did not. And I know for a fact I'm not the only person who thinks this.

I don't think that's really necessary. I guess all the others who have posted that he sounded great at their shows are tone deaf as well? 

I suppose I should be more specific - I didn't see them in Europe or South America. I saw both US legs quite a few times, but I believe only after he'd had at least 3, maybe more, shows under his belt. (I've often heard that he seems to need a few to really start sounding good.) And I'll further clarify that by saying he did an amazing job (at not one but many shows) I don't mean to imply perfection. There were a couple things he usually struggled with, and certainly not everything was sung just like the record, but overall, for the course of the show, he sounded very good. No one turned to someone praising him after the show and said, "dude, you must be deaf, he sounded awful." The worst I heard was "he sounded good, but I don't like his voice that much" and that was a rare comment.

So I suppose neither of us has done a scientific study to determine how most attendees felt about his performance. But while you may know for a fact that others felt as you do, I know that many others don't. It's not a "fact" that he was bad the whole tour. I feel like the consensus at the shows I saw was very positive, and online as well - even the MP forum has lots of praise and they're not all JL's biggest fans.

Either way, I think it's a big stretch to say that it's a fact that "most" of the vocal melodies on the album are outside his range. There are a lot of melodies that aren't that high at all.

Side note - we're just talking here. I don't know you and am not trying to cause any offense, and apologize if I have. If we don't end up agreeing, so be it.

No worries, you didn't offend me. It wasn't my intention to offend you, either. I guess ultimately we both have very different standards/definitions of what doing an amazing job on tour means. From my perspective, it's easy for me to think he hasn't done well when he strained and struggled the whole way thru each show I attended, and when he struggles the same way on every single YouTube video I've watched. Simply because that's all I have to go on. There is no evidence, so to speak, to suggest the contrary. Like I said though, if he sounded fine at the shows you attended, that's great. I'd be curious, however, to watch a video from any of the shows you attended, and see if the singing is actually any better. If not, then our definitions of "good singing" are very different. Again, I'm not hating on JLB. He's one of my favorite vocalists, period. I just think moving forward, when the band is writing new material and coming up with melodies for him to sing, they may want to consider how feasible it'll be to accurately replicate live, night after night, especially at his age. Also, I respect your opinion. If you had a good time at the shows, that's all that really matters. I enjoyed the shows for the most part, but felt really bad for JLB.

It also sucked, because I had friends (and girlfriend) with me who were all brand new to DT, and, needless to say, they all walked out with the totally wrong impression of JLB. They all had the same complaints "off key, flat, straining, struggling, screeching, couldn't understand the lyrics, etc." So, it just sucked, because I essentially had to tell them "I promise, he's much better than that - he usually sounds amazing". All in all, it dragged the rest of the band down, and probably ruined my friends' appreciation of the album. I just feel that DT could easily avoid this kind of thing from happening with potential new fans in the future if they just made sure to write melodies that James can realistically sing at his age.

The same goes for altering original melodies from older material, in efforts to make it easier on his voice. As I've said before, I'd much rather hear older material with altered melodies that are at least in tune and sound great (great pronunciation, articulation, etc.) than hear him try to pull them off as they were originally written and recorded, and it end up being all out of tune and incoherent. There's no shame in altering the original melodies to better suit your current vocal range. People understand that with age, your vocal chords can't do what they once could. I think it's better to embrace your age, make the necessary changes and own it, than to try and deny the reality that you can't hit those notes anymore, and go for it anyway and fail miserably. In other words, if I went to a show, would I be more disappointed if the vocalist sounded awesome, even though he altered the melodies here and there - or would I be more disappointed if he tried to sing it as originally recorded, but sounded terrible throughout? That's all I'm getting at. Again, I guess we just have different perspectives on the matter, and that's okay.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2016, 10:08:37 PM by Stewie »
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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #553 on: December 29, 2016, 01:07:35 AM »
It's called age and lots of touring. I don't think James is the problem, but rather the heavy touring cycle they have, they don't give his voice enough time to properly rest while on tour.
That's possible, but then again, they only spent two months on tour during 2015. Not to mention he was absolutely tremendous throughout pretty much the entire 2014, even near the end.
Yeah, James sounded great in 2014, even on the pro-shot Loud Park footage though he was ill at that show. I wonder what the hell happened to his voice after that tour.

Offline CB

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #554 on: December 29, 2016, 02:41:11 PM »
It's called age and lots of touring. I don't think James is the problem, but rather the heavy touring cycle they have, they don't give his voice enough time to properly rest while on tour.
That's possible, but then again, they only spent two months on tour during 2015. Not to mention he was absolutely tremendous throughout pretty much the entire 2014, even near the end.
Yeah, James sounded great in 2014, even on the pro-shot Loud Park footage though he was ill at that show. I wonder what the hell happened to his voice after that tour.

I think the 2015 summer tour was unfortunate. JLB got really ill (JR called him a "walking pharmacy"), the tour schedule was murderous (a post from MM on his facebook page made me wonder if DT want to kill their drummer) and songs like Afterlife and Metropolis at the beginning of each show didn't help.
I was relieved to hear JLBs voice in perfect shape at the 2 Theater Equation shows I attended in september 2015.
With TA it's strange, some say something bad happened to his voice, some say it's better than ever. The comments from people I talked to at the 2 german shows I attended were very positive.
I don't know anything about vocal technique so I might be wrong, but to me it seems JLB sang TA a bit differently, perhaps because it's a rock opera/metal musical?
It'll be interesting to see what he does with I&W and how he adapts some parts.

Offline bosk1

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #555 on: December 29, 2016, 02:49:42 PM »
I just think moving forward, when the band is writing new material and coming up with melodies for him to sing, they may want to consider how feasible it'll be to accurately replicate live, night after night, especially at his age.

...

I just feel that DT could easily avoid this kind of thing from happening with potential new fans in the future if they just made sure to write melodies that James can realistically sing at his age.
Well, they wrote the vocal melodies in Another Day and Take the Time as well.  So writing vocal melodies that are impossible to replicate live is nothing new to this band.  And the fact that they are getting ready to embark on a tour that requires their singer to try to replicate both of these in the same show 25 years after the fact, I think, implies that the band do not share your perspective.  :lol



Also, unrelated, but long-standing pet peeve, so don't take this personal:  Their is no such thing as a "vocal chord."
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #556 on: December 29, 2016, 03:25:41 PM »
All I can say is that the vast majority of what I've heard throughout the tour is how great James did with this comparatively high amount of singing.

Also, I was at the last night of the show, and he fucking slayed it that night.

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #557 on: December 29, 2016, 09:32:53 PM »
I just think moving forward, when the band is writing new material and coming up with melodies for him to sing, they may want to consider how feasible it'll be to accurately replicate live, night after night, especially at his age.

...

I just feel that DT could easily avoid this kind of thing from happening with potential new fans in the future if they just made sure to write melodies that James can realistically sing at his age.
Well, they wrote the vocal melodies in Another Day and Take the Time as well.  So writing vocal melodies that are impossible to replicate live is nothing new to this band.  And the fact that they are getting ready to embark on a tour that requires their singer to try to replicate both of these in the same show 25 years after the fact, I think, implies that the band do not share your perspective.  :lol



Also, unrelated, but long-standing pet peeve, so don't take this personal:  Their is no such thing as a "vocal chord."

C'mon bosk, really? He was quite a bit younger for the recording of I&W...lol. You can't counter my argument by saying "well they wrote the vocal melodies for Another Day and Take The Time and he was able to sing it back then!" OBVIOUSLY. Those melodies weren't always impossible. But the guys aren't stupid, either. Surely back then they had to have realized that, eventually, the melodies would need to be altered to suit his vocal cord range (there you go, is that better?). But then again, here we are, almost 2017, and he is struggling probably worse than I've ever heard him before, so, yeah - I'd say the band clearly doesn't share my perspective. You don't have to try and convince me of that. Not to worry though - once he sounds bad enough, they'll come to their senses  ;)
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Offline RaiseTheKnife

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #558 on: December 31, 2016, 02:00:23 PM »



Also, unrelated, but long-standing pet peeve, so don't take this personal:  Their is no such thing as a "vocal chord."

On the topic of pet peeves . . .

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Re: New DT Tour dates
« Reply #559 on: December 31, 2016, 03:41:45 PM »



Also, unrelated, but long-standing pet peeve, so don't take this personal:  Their is no such thing as a "vocal chord."

On the topic of pet peeves . . .

 :lol

I agree.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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