Author Topic: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him  (Read 49605 times)

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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2016, 02:19:48 PM »
I think that the best move for DT is not to play with Portnoy on this cruise, if only out of respect to Mangini. By avoiding musical contact with Portnoy, they make it clear to the fans and Mangini that he's here to stay.
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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2016, 02:27:36 PM »

Anyway, I wonder if the guys he must have already chosen to play the suite know they have a "firing clause" if one of the original members indeed does show up  :biggrin:
That's funny.

I'm very interested in who'll be performing with him. Depending on the vocalist, this could be really cool.
would have thought the same thing but seeing the OP was TAC i immediately thought Maiden or DT related
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Offline ronnibran

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2016, 05:26:54 PM »
If MP did in fact ask in the best possible way the other four members who helped create the 5 part suite, and it fell through.  He would have been best off not even mentioning that they were invited and declined.  They have no obligations to him, so no reason for him to try and shed bad light on them.  Even if that wasn't his intention, he should have just not commented on it.  But hey, we all know that wouldn't happen.

That said, that's just MP being MP and I like the guy a lot and have no hard feelings either way.

Offline ChuckSteak

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2016, 06:06:44 PM »
By avoiding musical contact with Portnoy, they make it clear to the fans and Mangini that he's here to stay.
I thought that was pretty clear already. It has been 6 years and he recorded 3 albums with the band, I don't think anyone still sees Mangini as a substitute drummer. If 6 years isn't enough to be a full, permanent member of the band, then I don't know what is.

Offline Madman Shepherd

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2016, 06:26:16 PM »
I'm not sure what the logistics look like with 7 months notice, but I'm turned off by the implication that if DT doesn't show up it validates his position. Disregarding for a moment whether DT has any interest in this, there's a huge difference (financial and logistic) between flying to a venue for a one-off performance and dedicating an entire week on a cruise. While I wouldn't go so far as to say it was intentional on MP's part, I can't help but think that he gave them an offer that he knew they would decline.

"Life is too short to hold grudges."

It is a pretty passive aggressive way to imply that if they don't take him up on his offer then they are "holding a grudge."

I think you're right that its kind of setting the band up to validate Mikes way of seeing things

Offline bosk1

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2016, 07:58:50 PM »
I'm not sure what the logistics look like with 7 months notice, but I'm turned off by the implication that if DT doesn't show up it validates his position. Disregarding for a moment whether DT has any interest in this, there's a huge difference (financial and logistic) between flying to a venue for a one-off performance and dedicating an entire week on a cruise. While I wouldn't go so far as to say it was intentional on MP's part, I can't help but think that he gave them an offer that he knew they would decline.
Absolutely.

I mean, when it comes  to whether to invite them, he's kind of in a bind.  He risks negativity from the fanbase and from his former bandmates if he doesn't invite them, but he also kind of sets himself up for the same thing if he does invite them, because it is almost certain they don't come--not necessarily because of any negativity towards him, but mainly because of the logistics of the thing.  All in all, I think he probably comes out better by inviting them.  The problem is, he loses any potential saving grace and makes himself again look very low-class by making the follow-up comments he made. 
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Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2016, 10:03:47 PM »
I disagree with your first point. No one would have thought for two seconds he was doing anything wrong, inappropriate, or insulting by not inviting them.
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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2016, 10:50:46 PM »
If I were DT I'd set up at Jordan or MM's home studio live stream a performance of the 12 Step Suite on Youtube or something the the same week of the cruise.
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Offline IdoSC

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2016, 03:53:18 AM »
I'm not sure what the logistics look like with 7 months notice, but I'm turned off by the implication that if DT doesn't show up it validates his position. Disregarding for a moment whether DT has any interest in this, there's a huge difference (financial and logistic) between flying to a venue for a one-off performance and dedicating an entire week on a cruise. While I wouldn't go so far as to say it was intentional on MP's part, I can't help but think that he gave them an offer that he knew they would decline.
Absolutely.

I mean, when it comes  to whether to invite them, he's kind of in a bind.  He risks negativity from the fanbase and from his former bandmates if he doesn't invite them, but he also kind of sets himself up for the same thing if he does invite them, because it is almost certain they don't come--not necessarily because of any negativity towards him, but mainly because of the logistics of the thing.  All in all, I think he probably comes out better by inviting them.  The problem is, he loses any potential saving grace and makes himself again look very low-class by making the follow-up comments he made.
I think he could come out of this whole deal very well if he invited them and just didn't comment much about it or chose his words more carefully. I disagree with your earlier comment about looking for reasons to hate Portnoy, he chooses time after time to walk that fine line between taking the high road and putting the blame on them.

He could refer to "Dream Theater" as a band of 5 members that doesn't include him right now, or rather refer to his 4 former bandmates in a clearer way that doesn't sound like he's ignoring the presence of MM in the band ("My 4 bandmates from the band", "The members I'm more familiar with", etc.).

He could not address random comments on Facebook all the time talking implicitly about how he thinks the band is holding a grudge or something, or about what he thinks is the actual reason for them to refuse, or to keep harping on how much he's hurt from their refusal.

He could not retweet, like and share various comments throughout the years about how so and so album of DT recorded without him is terrible, sounds too much like Images and Words, how they're not what they used to be without him, and many many more of these.

He could stop bringing up the term "reuniting at any point" as if we're still talking about an end goal that may and will eventually happen, but rather talk about it like it is: A likely permanent separation. There can be collaborations, there can be reunion *shows*, but he chooses to say it as if he's expecting them to actually reunite with him in the long term.

MP is a big boy and he's making it very hard to relate to him in this whole ordeal. He's absolutely responsible for the negative image he has publicly among some DT fans and I don't think you can blame it on them. He's always choosing to tread along this line of bitterness and passive aggressive comments about the band when the "breakup" was supposedly smooth and mutually agreed on, he's always putting out the dirty laundry, he's always encouraging campy behavior in the fanbase. He chose to have a solo career and that's fine, but this band really doesn't need periodic tackles and drama with ex-bandmates in my opinion, this is not Guns n' Roses or Queensryche; but he keeps steering the wheel in that direction IMO.

Offline Kotowboy

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #44 on: July 11, 2016, 04:08:13 AM »
My favourite thing is whenever MP says anything about DT and is all like " *I* wanted to do this *FOR THE FANS* but *THEY* and *THEIR* lawyers thought differently..."


As if MP is this angel who wants to make everyone happy when really he wants to make himself happy and Dream Theater are the evil band who shoot down anything he wants to do

*for the fans* ( i.e. Mike Portnoy )

Offline RoeDent

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #45 on: July 11, 2016, 04:37:05 AM »
And if this does happen, we have an issue with how the band should be credited. It certainly shouldn't be credited as "Dream Theater", because DT without Mangini now isn't DT. For the same reason, it shouldn't be "MP feat. DT". And "MP feat. JLB, JP, JMX and JR" is a mouthful.

This has just put everyone into an awkward situation. MP should have just kept his mouth shut.

Offline Darkstarshades

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #46 on: July 11, 2016, 04:44:55 AM »
It's almost as if he was suffering a terminal disease (hopefully not).
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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #47 on: July 11, 2016, 06:24:53 AM »
By avoiding musical contact with Portnoy, they make it clear to the fans and Mangini that he's here to stay.
I thought that was pretty clear already. It has been 6 years and he recorded 3 albums with the band, I don't think anyone still sees Mangini as a substitute drummer. If 6 years isn't enough to be a full, permanent member of the band, then I don't know what is.
In my mind, it's just one of those things that's better avoided. Now, if Portnoy wants to come play one song with the guys during a DT show that Mangini's at, that's a different story. But the guys basically leaving Mangini behind while they go party with the dude he replaced seems a little... I dunno, uncool. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but it doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #48 on: July 11, 2016, 06:26:18 AM »
By avoiding musical contact with Portnoy, they make it clear to the fans and Mangini that he's here to stay.
I thought that was pretty clear already. It has been 6 years and he recorded 3 albums with the band, I don't think anyone still sees Mangini as a substitute drummer. If 6 years isn't enough to be a full, permanent member of the band, then I don't know what is.
In my mind, it's just one of those things that's better avoided. Now, if Portnoy wants to come play one song with the guys during a DT show that Mangini's at, that's a different story. But the guys basically leaving Mangini behind while they go party with the dude he replaced seems a little... I dunno, uncool. Maybe I'm overthinking it, but it doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

The entire theme of this thread is overthinking it.
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Offline Mladen

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #49 on: July 11, 2016, 06:56:23 AM »
The guys are Dream Theater are being clever about not even addressing this whole thing. They know it would create an even bigger controversy. And it would be even more chaotic if it happens, which isn't something they would want to invite into their career.

Offline nikatapi

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2016, 07:43:56 AM »
Jordan will not be going, we talked a few days ago, you can read the whole interview here
https://noisefull.com/interviews/jordan-rudess

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2016, 07:45:24 AM »
We don't know how that invitation was made. Was it a facebook post like "hey guys, come over and play with me", or was there a serious attempt to reach out personally and discuss the matter. And then we don't know if and why they refused. This could be anything from a grudge to conflicting schedules to one of them being seasick on boats. So there's a lot of room for speculation and  a lot of room for putting the blame on one party or the other. And the truth is probably something completely different.

It would have been better not to mention anything of it, but now that the damage is done, we can at least analyse and theorize and discuss the whole matter ad nauseam. After all we're DTF and we at least are a little bit less one sided than the Portnoy forum.
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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2016, 07:58:41 AM »
Jordan will not be going, we talked a few days ago, you can read the whole interview here
https://noisefull.com/interviews/jordan-rudess

Nice interview, thanks for posting! I guess that clears up any question about JR's involvement.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2016, 09:05:03 AM »
I'm not sure what the logistics look like with 7 months notice, but I'm turned off by the implication that if DT doesn't show up it validates his position. Disregarding for a moment whether DT has any interest in this, there's a huge difference (financial and logistic) between flying to a venue for a one-off performance and dedicating an entire week on a cruise. While I wouldn't go so far as to say it was intentional on MP's part, I can't help but think that he gave them an offer that he knew they would decline.
Absolutely.

I mean, when it comes  to whether to invite them, he's kind of in a bind.  He risks negativity from the fanbase and from his former bandmates if he doesn't invite them, but he also kind of sets himself up for the same thing if he does invite them, because it is almost certain they don't come--not necessarily because of any negativity towards him, but mainly because of the logistics of the thing.  All in all, I think he probably comes out better by inviting them.  The problem is, he loses any potential saving grace and makes himself again look very low-class by making the follow-up comments he made.
I think he could come out of this whole deal very well if he invited them and just didn't comment much about it or chose his words more carefully. I disagree with your earlier comment about looking for reasons to hate Portnoy, he chooses time after time to walk that fine line between taking the high road and putting the blame on them.

He could refer to "Dream Theater" as a band of 5 members that doesn't include him right now, or rather refer to his 4 former bandmates in a clearer way that doesn't sound like he's ignoring the presence of MM in the band ("My 4 bandmates from the band", "The members I'm more familiar with", etc.).

He could not address random comments on Facebook all the time talking implicitly about how he thinks the band is holding a grudge or something, or about what he thinks is the actual reason for them to refuse, or to keep harping on how much he's hurt from their refusal.

He could not retweet, like and share various comments throughout the years about how so and so album of DT recorded without him is terrible, sounds too much like Images and Words, how they're not what they used to be without him, and many many more of these.

He could stop bringing up the term "reuniting at any point" as if we're still talking about an end goal that may and will eventually happen, but rather talk about it like it is: A likely permanent separation. There can be collaborations, there can be reunion *shows*, but he chooses to say it as if he's expecting them to actually reunite with him in the long term.

MP is a big boy and he's making it very hard to relate to him in this whole ordeal. He's absolutely responsible for the negative image he has publicly among some DT fans and I don't think you can blame it on them. He's always choosing to tread along this line of bitterness and passive aggressive comments about the band when the "breakup" was supposedly smooth and mutually agreed on, he's always putting out the dirty laundry, he's always encouraging campy behavior in the fanbase. He chose to have a solo career and that's fine, but this band really doesn't need periodic tackles and drama with ex-bandmates in my opinion, this is not Guns n' Roses or Queensryche; but he keeps steering the wheel in that direction IMO.

I agree with all of that except the "He could refer to "Dream Theater" as a band of 5 members that doesn't include him right now, or rather refer to his 4 former bandmates in a clearer way that doesn't sound like he's ignoring the presence of MM in the band ("My 4 bandmates from the band", "The members I'm more familiar with", etc.)" part.  He deserves whatever he gets for all that other stuff because it is completely his fault for stirring up drama and saying things that are in poor taste.  He obviously can't stop acting childish or take the high road no matter how much time passes, and that's sad.  But the "4 members" comment is a big nothing.  It isn't even remotely a slight at Mangini, and you really have to be reaching for something that isn't there to see one.
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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2016, 09:15:03 AM »
Jordan will not be going, we talked a few days ago, you can read the whole interview here
https://noisefull.com/interviews/jordan-rudess
Hey, congratulations on your interview! Just finished reading it.

Too bad they haven't been to Greece lately. I got to know Athens (and one other island) in January 2014. My grandma was born there, so I was really keen. Such a nice place - and weather! (it was Winter, but we wore t-shirts most of the time). I love the food - I would visit again just for a little more soublakia and salads :)

Offline rumborak

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2016, 09:39:03 AM »
I think it's definitely smart by DT to ignore this whole thing. The ambers have finally settled down from outright burning to a tiny amount of smoke, no need to throw a liter of gasoline onto it.

I somehow also can totally see them not being super-excited about playing the 12-step suite in its entirety. Even among fans it's a mixed bag.
And honestly, I think MP playing this in a completely different rendition is way more interesting than DT playing it.
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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #56 on: July 11, 2016, 11:27:44 AM »
I think MP playing this in a completely different rendition is way more interesting than DT playing it.

I can't see how anyone but JP and JR play TGP correctly and make it sound good. The other songs in the suite can be covered to the point of a passing grade....but I personally am dying to see whoever butcher TGP.
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Offline Mosh

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #57 on: July 11, 2016, 11:47:09 AM »
And honestly, I think MP playing this in a completely different rendition is way more interesting than DT playing it.
Yes. I really look forward to seeing how it is rearranged to be played as a single unit. There are lots of things (especially in the later songs) that work really well in context of the song/album but would make the whole thing seem disjointed when played as a suite. MP is a smart arranger and probably recognizes this and will adjust accordingly. I imagine DT in their current form would rather just replicate the albums.
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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #58 on: July 11, 2016, 01:03:19 PM »
I think MP playing this in a completely different rendition is way more interesting than DT playing it.

I can't see how anyone but JP and JR play TGP correctly and make it sound good. The other songs in the suite can be covered to the point of a passing grade....but I personally am dying to see whoever butcher TGP.

Unless they slow down the tempo.

Offline FracturedMirror

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #59 on: July 11, 2016, 02:03:16 PM »
I think MP playing this in a completely different rendition is way more interesting than DT playing it.

I can't see how anyone but JP and JR play TGP correctly and make it sound good. The other songs in the suite can be covered to the point of a passing grade....but I personally am dying to see whoever butcher TGP.
 
His other one-off bands have often had Paul Gilbert on guitar.  I think he could handle it.

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #60 on: July 11, 2016, 02:39:33 PM »
I think MP playing this in a completely different rendition is way more interesting than DT playing it.

I can't see how anyone but JP and JR play TGP correctly and make it sound good. The other songs in the suite can be covered to the point of a passing grade....but I personally am dying to see whoever butcher TGP.
 
His other one-off bands have often had Paul Gilbert on guitar.  I think he could handle it.

true. He is capable....but I have a hard time believing he'd play it note for note, plus he and the keyboardist would need to be spot on as well. I'm sure it'd sound good though....I just think it's a song that's so intricate it'd be tough to cover.
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Offline gm5k

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #61 on: July 11, 2016, 02:45:46 PM »
I think MP playing this in a completely different rendition is way more interesting than DT playing it.

I can't see how anyone but JP and JR play TGP correctly and make it sound good. The other songs in the suite can be covered to the point of a passing grade....but I personally am dying to see whoever butcher TGP.
 

His other one-off bands have often had Paul Gilbert on guitar.  I think he could handle it.

true. He is capable....but I have a hard time believing he'd play it note for note, plus he and the keyboardist would need to be spot on as well. I'm sure it'd sound good though....I just think it's a song that's so intricate it'd be tough to cover.

I've always thought Marco Sfogli should team up with MP for different projects.  He can absolutely handle anything thrown at him and completely own it, plus there's a ton of Petrucci in his playing  :metal  I don't imagine Marco would want to do something like this though, so it's just a dream ;D You wouldn't be able to find a better guitarist to cover Dream Theater. 

At any rate, I do really hope that Portnoy's performance of the 12 step suite ends up sounding great and gives him a lot of satisfaction  :tup
« Last Edit: July 11, 2016, 03:16:04 PM by gm5k »

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #62 on: July 11, 2016, 06:32:48 PM »
I think MP playing this in a completely different rendition is way more interesting than DT playing it.

I can't see how anyone but JP and JR play TGP correctly and make it sound good. The other songs in the suite can be covered to the point of a passing grade....but I personally am dying to see whoever butcher TGP.
 
His other one-off bands have often had Paul Gilbert on guitar.  I think he could handle it.

true. He is capable....but I have a hard time believing he'd play it note for note, plus he and the keyboardist would need to be spot on as well. I'm sure it'd sound good though....I just think it's a song that's so intricate it'd be tough to cover.

I think you're grossly overestimating how impossible DT parts are. Sure, they are very difficult for most musicians, but it's mostly the fact that DT was creative enough to write parts that are both complex and musical at the same time. There's plenty of bands/musicians who play things the guys in DT probably couldn't, but they're boring as all hell to listen to. However, those musicians could probably replicate DT parts without an issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSJ8Kfddadc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XVvUoayiX0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nuNh6Yz9PXo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6f28NpPjPE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnf2usvBUQo

That's just The Glass Prison opening stuff (although I think 2 are the full song) after a very quick youtube search.

Portnoy can easily find people to do this.

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Offline KevShmev

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #63 on: July 11, 2016, 06:55:31 PM »
Jordan will not be going, we talked a few days ago, you can read the whole interview here
https://noisefull.com/interviews/jordan-rudess

Props to JR for taking the high road. Gave a simple answer, short and sweet, and said nothing else. That's the way to do it. :tup :tup

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #64 on: July 11, 2016, 06:56:52 PM »
Jordan will not be going, we talked a few days ago, you can read the whole interview here
https://noisefull.com/interviews/jordan-rudess

Props to JR for taking the high road. Gave a simple answer, short and sweet, and said nothing else. That's the way to do it. :tup :tup

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #65 on: July 11, 2016, 07:52:49 PM »
Jordan will not be going, we talked a few days ago, you can read the whole interview here
https://noisefull.com/interviews/jordan-rudess

Props to JR for taking the high road. Gave a simple answer, short and sweet, and said nothing else. That's the way to do it. :tup :tup

Yup. No need for ME and THEM and THEY.

How dare comments refer to people! The nerve. Capitalizing words doesn't make them a thing.
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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #66 on: July 11, 2016, 08:44:05 PM »
Jordan will not be going, we talked a few days ago, you can read the whole interview here
https://noisefull.com/interviews/jordan-rudess

Props to JR for taking the high road. Gave a simple answer, short and sweet, and said nothing else. That's the way to do it. :tup :tup


Idk, that ellipsis at the end had me triggered.

Offline SystematicThought

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #67 on: July 11, 2016, 08:48:15 PM »
Idk, that ellipsis at the end had me triggered.
Yeah, what did he really mean when he wrote dot dot dot
God have mercy on a man
Who doubts what he's sure of.
-Bruce Springsteen

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #68 on: July 11, 2016, 08:50:13 PM »
Perhaps he was dictating it.

Offline PetFish

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Re: Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him
« Reply #69 on: July 11, 2016, 10:13:38 PM »
Here is a quote from the MP forum:

"Mike can be the nicest dude on earth, but even that guy gets tired of always being the nice one reaching out only to be rebuffed."

 :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:  :facepalm:

I can't believe how blind some people can be.  I know that if I had a best friend who keeps taking shots at me after we "amicably" seperate I wouldn't want anything to do with them.

The DT guys have been nothing but classy this entire time, barely saying a negative word (if any) about MP or the situation, and the hardcore MP fans seem to think that MP can do nothing wrong and has done nothing wrong and make him out to be some sort of victim here.

Most of us here know the history of the split and that MP kept fanning the flames with actions and words and then people like the one I quoted seem to think MP is so nice and DT are so not nice.  It's really mind-boggling.