Portnoy invites the DT guys to play the 12 step with him

[bosk1]

I've never seen these many MP haters in one forum 

You have a strange definition of "hater."

[Darkstarshades]

/Hate Mike Portnoy

[KevShmev]

Turns out, DT said, "See ya, we're moving on," and A7X said, "Thanks for the tour, adios."  And he was left with neither.  That would make most people a little bitter and resentful, especially an insecure person who frequently needs validation.

This didn't just make him bitter and/or resentful.  It crushed him.  To be that insecure, to think that things were really going great, and then to be "rejected" by both bands really must have been horrible.  It's easy to say that he didn't handle it well; it's much more difficult to say why.  To most people, it was "His ego just couldn't handle it" and while that's true, it's more complicated than that.

Yep, and to make matters worse, the first "new" band he had after leaving DT, Adrenaline Mob, was an abject failure on just about every level imaginable.

[SebastianPratesi]

Here here Kev.

where?

Ha! 

[Madman Shepherd]

In response to a previous post, I don't think he got tired of DT after 6DOIT, I think it was after Score. 

If you notice, he had a master plan for everything and things dealing with patterns and keys and nuggets.  Once they finished 8V with the whole reoccurring theme deal going on, and they performed with an orchestra, and then when asked what the gimmick the followup would have (which ended up being SC) Mike kinda threw his hands in the air.  The only thing that was consistent was that he did his 12 Step Suite.  By the time BC&SL rolled around, the only things on his bucket list were touring with a huge band and performing at Madison Square Garden.  He said touring with Metallica, Rush, or Maiden would be a dream.  Maiden was the only feasible one and that happened...in MSG. 

A7X offering to have him tour was the perfect excuse to bail but like most people agree, he probably thought he would be asked on full time.

[TAC]

 
If you notice, he had a master plan for everything and things dealing with patterns and keys and nuggets.  Once they finished 8V with the whole reoccurring theme deal going on, and they performed with an orchestra, and then when asked what the gimmick the followup would have (which ended up being SC) Mike kinda threw his hands in the air.  The only thing that was consistent was that he did his 12 Step Suite.  By the time BC&SL rolled around, the only things on his bucket list were touring with a huge band and performing at Madison Square Garden.  He said touring with Metallica, Rush, or Maiden would be a dream.  Maiden was the only feasible one and that happened...in MSG. 

That's interesting.

[Darkstarshades]

He should have gone Luca Turilli and founded "Mike Portnoy's Dream Theater"

[Adami]

He should have gone Luca Turilli and founded "Mike Portnoy's Dream Theater"

Dream Theater of Fire!

[arkdtmp]

Honestly, you have to be pretty obtuse and deliberately looking for reasons to hate Portnoy to be put off by the "all four Dream Theater guys" comment.  There's nothing there to be offended about.

 

I've never seen these many MP haters in one forum 

You have a strange definition of "hater."

After all the comments that have ensued, I think it can be said that a lot of people don't really like MP. I suppose 'hate' is an extreme word for it; even my Dad has told me numerous times that I throw that word around too often. But really, I think everyone is just making a meal out of this.

[Orbert]

I don't think that discussing Mike's personality, including his very real issues with control and seeming lack of throttle between his brain and his mouth, and the consequences of them, makes us haters.  I still very much admire the guy as a musician and respect what he's done and continues to do as an artist, but I also think the guy has some problems which you'd have to be blind, deaf, and dumb not to acknowledge.  Nobody here is saying "He's such an asshole!"  That would imply that he enjoys causing chaos and harm, which clearly isn't the case.  I would even characterize the current discussion as leaning toward the apologist side.  He's not hurtful toward others out of malice, and he's not harmful to himself on purpose, either.  He's an impulsive guy who makes bad decisions sometimes, as do we all.  The difference is that he does his very publicly, and loudly.  Acknowledging that and discussing it doesn't make you a hater.

[Anguyen92]

I've never seen these many MP haters in one forum 

You have a strange definition of "hater."

I don't think the people of this forum really hate or despise Portnoy.  I do think the forum are really really deep in terms of analyzing him and his quirks and flaws, in addition to his positive qualities.

[MirrorMask]

In response to a previous post, I don't think he got tired of DT after 6DOIT, I think it was after Score. 

If you notice, he had a master plan for everything and things dealing with patterns and keys and nuggets.  Once they finished 8V with the whole reoccurring theme deal going on, and they performed with an orchestra, and then when asked what the gimmick the followup would have (which ended up being SC) Mike kinda threw his hands in the air.  The only thing that was consistent was that he did his 12 Step Suite.  By the time BC&SL rolled around, the only things on his bucket list were touring with a huge band and performing at Madison Square Garden.  He said touring with Metallica, Rush, or Maiden would be a dream.  Maiden was the only feasible one and that happened...in MSG. 

A7X offering to have him tour was the perfect excuse to bail but like most people agree, he probably thought he would be asked on full time.

I also agree with this, but that's life basically, it can happen to anyone that one day you wake up and you realize you're not enjoying what you're doing anymore, be it your work, your band or the relationship with your wife.

If at all, kudos to him for having such a fire going on for so many albums, there's only so much you can do before you run out of even the widest of imaginations, which he surely had when it comes to the extra stuff.

[King Postwhore]

Here here Kev.

where?

Hear hear John.   You feel better bro?

[KevShmev]

I don't think that discussing Mike's personality, including his very real issues with control and seeming lack of throttle between his brain and his mouth, and the consequences of them, makes us haters.  I still very much admire the guy as a musician and respect what he's done and continues to do as an artist, but I also think the guy has some problems which you'd have to be blind, deaf, and dumb not to acknowledge.  Nobody here is saying "He's such an asshole!"  That would imply that he enjoys causing chaos and harm, which clearly isn't the case.  I would even characterize the current discussion as leaning toward the apologist side.  He's not hurtful toward others out of malice, and he's not harmful to himself on purpose, either.  He's an impulsive guy who makes bad decisions sometimes, as do we all.  The difference is that he does his very publicly, and loudly.  Acknowledging that and discussing it doesn't make you a hater.

Hear, hear!!

 

[King Postwhore]

 

[Mosh]

I've never seen these many MP haters in one forum 

You have a strange definition of "hater."

I don't think the people of this forum really hate or despise Portnoy.  I do think the forum are really really deep in terms of analyzing him and his quirks and flaws, in addition to his positive qualities.

There are definitely some people on here who seem heavily biased against him and pick apart everything he says right down to the pronoun usage. That said, it's a minority and there are just as many who defend him blindly. This forum as a whole seems to be pretty objective on him for the most part, if a little over analytical.  But I get it.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I've never seen these many MP haters in one forum 

Nobody hates him. In fact, I think that what makes this conversation somewhat interesting is that even those (me included) who have been critical of him love  the man's work to some extent. He was a huge musical influence on me some years ago, and I'll always cherish that; but that doesn't mean I can't be critical of him when he speaks. He has seen some criticism in this forum because, according to some of our opinions, he has deserved it lol.

If you want a place where you want to talk mostly wonders about him and have lots of people to agree with you, you can always join MP.com.

[Iceyice]

I definitely am a fan of Portnoy. I wish i could meet him someday.

The poster that said Adrenaline Mob was a failure on every level is wrong. 'Omerta' was a great album.

I think this whole thing is just the first step to him getting back in the band. We know it's going to happen. Maybe later than we think, but think.....even Dokken is getting back together for some Japan shows. Who thought that would ever happen? Someday Geoff Tate will be back in Queensryche. The only one that i don't see happening, as VH is my fave band is Mike Anthony getting back in, unless Sammy returns....

[Kotowboy]

Adrenaline Mob was like a midlife crisis.

[Mosh]

I definitely am a fan of Portnoy. I wish i could meet him someday.

The poster that said Adrenaline Mob was a failure on every level is wrong. 'Omerta' was a great album.

I think this whole thing is just the first step to him getting back in the band. We know it's going to happen. Maybe later than we think, but think.....even Dokken is getting back together for some Japan shows. Who thought that would ever happen? Someday Geoff Tate will be back in Queensryche. The only one that i don't see happening, as VH is my fave band is Mike Anthony getting back in, unless Sammy returns....

That's pretty much how I see it. DT had a relatively clean breakup compared to bands like GNR or Van Halen. I don't think a DT reunion is that far out of the realms of possibility, I just think MP is asking for it too early. Give it time and maybe it'll happen.

[Kotowboy]

I think this whole thing is just the first step to him getting back in the band. We know it's going to happen.

I hate this kind of blinkered fanboi opinion.

Portnoy will NEVER be a full time member of Dream Theater ever again.

NEVER.

[Prog Snob]

Here here Kev.

where?

Hear hear John.   You feel better bro?

 

Oh, I didn't say that because you spelled it wrong. I was just being a ball-buster.

I've never seen these many MP haters in one forum 

You haven't seen hate until you've seen my reaction to the person who gets in the way of my meal times.

[Iceyice]

 That's pretty much how I see it. DT had a relatively clean breakup compared to bands like GNR or Van Halen. I don't think a DT reunion is that far out of the realms of possibility, I just think MP is asking for it too early. Give it time and maybe it'll happen.
[/quote]

Yup, the breakup was relatively clean. All Mike wanted to do was take a break. I don't blame him, because DT weren't making completely great albums. Maybe 3-4 great songs, some true clunker songs, and some that needed serious editing. There was the burnout issue.
My only problem is what to do with MM. You can't just kick him to the curb as he has been a more than capable replacement. I appreciate him a lot. Has the personality of a head of lettuce, but not everyone can't be colorful, lol.

[Iceyice]

I think this whole thing is just the first step to him getting back in the band. We know it's going to happen.

I hate this kind of blinkered fanboi opinion.

Portnoy will NEVER be a full time member of Dream Theater ever again.

NEVER.


Ha ha ha. Maybe you can pick some lottery numbers for me, since you know the future.

And of course i'm a fan.....

[Mosh]

I think this whole thing is just the first step to him getting back in the band. We know it's going to happen.

I hate this kind of blinkered fanboi opinion.

Portnoy will NEVER be a full time member of Dream Theater ever again.

NEVER.

This is just as arrogant as people who say it's guaranteed for Portnoy to come back.

[Kotowboy]

It's just when people say Portnoy will OBVIOUSLY return to Dream Theater full time...

When everyone in the band has repeatedly said that will not happen.

I see it happening for a one off show but not re-joining full time - even if mangini retires.

...

[Darkstarshades]

They should fire Mangini and get Lars. Better than both Migueles

[WheyWaffles]

It's just when people say Portnoy will OBVIOUSLY return to Dream Theater full time...

When everyone in the band has repeatedly said that will not happen.

I see it happening for a one off show but not re-joining full time - even if mangini retires.

...

I can see Myung's face when he gets the news that everyone else is ready for Mike to finally return to the band full-time...

It looks the same as it always does.

[Mosh]

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

Oh God, his eyes are so open.

[arkdtmp]

I've never seen these many MP haters in one forum 

Nobody hates him. In fact, I think that what makes this conversation somewhat interesting is that even those (me included) who have been critical of him love  the man's work to some extent. He was a huge musical influence on me some years ago, and I'll always cherish that; but that doesn't mean I can't be critical of him when he speaks. He has seen some criticism in this forum because, according to some of our opinions, he has deserved it lol.

If you want a place where you want to talk mostly wonders about him and have lots of people to agree with you, you can always join MP.com.

Thanks for the advice.

[KevShmev]

I've never seen these many MP haters in one forum 

Nobody hates him. In fact, I think that what makes this conversation somewhat interesting is that even those (me included) who have been critical of him love  the man's work to some extent. He was a huge musical influence on me some years ago, and I'll always cherish that; but that doesn't mean I can't be critical of him when he speaks. He has seen some criticism in this forum because, according to some of our opinions, he has deserved it lol.

If you want a place where you want to talk mostly wonders about him and have lots of people to agree with you, you can always join MP.com.

Thanks for the advice.

It's good advice.  If you're such a fan of the man that you can't handle reading a little constructive criticism, his site, where such talk is frowned upon, could be the perfect fit for you. We're just trying to help.

The poster that said Adrenaline Mob was a failure on every level is wrong. 'Omerta' was a great album.

 

Come on now.

I think this whole thing is just the first step to him getting back in the band. We know it's going to happen. 

We do? 

[arkdtmp]

I've never seen these many MP haters in one forum 

Nobody hates him. In fact, I think that what makes this conversation somewhat interesting is that even those (me included) who have been critical of him love  the man's work to some extent. He was a huge musical influence on me some years ago, and I'll always cherish that; but that doesn't mean I can't be critical of him when he speaks. He has seen some criticism in this forum because, according to some of our opinions, he has deserved it lol.

If you want a place where you want to talk mostly wonders about him and have lots of people to agree with you, you can always join MP.com.

Thanks for the advice.

It's good advice.  If you're such a fan of the man that you can't handle reading a little constructive criticism, his site, where such talk is frowned upon, could be the perfect fit for you. We're just trying to help.

I never said it was bad advice. I AM a fan of the man, and I'm also a fan of Dream Theater. My comments have in now way suggested that I 'can't handle reading a little constructive criticism'.

However, if the discussion here is geared towards purely criticizing MP's actions and comments; then it's not much of a discussion, is it? Just because I'm defending what he (MP) says, y'all seem to be pushing me towards MP's forum. If you're referring to my infamous 'hater' comment, I followed up by saying that it might have been too strong a word.

MP is a drama queen.

An egotistical, disturbed man.

[Octavarious]

I definitely am a fan of Portnoy. I wish i could meet him someday.

The poster that said Adrenaline Mob was a failure on every level is wrong. 'Omerta' was a great album.

I think this whole thing is just the first step to him getting back in the band. We know it's going to happen. Maybe later than we think, but think.....even Dokken is getting back together for some Japan shows. Who thought that would ever happen? Someday Geoff Tate will be back in Queensryche. The only one that i don't see happening, as VH is my fave band is Mike Anthony getting back in, unless Sammy returns....

That's pretty much how I see it. DT had a relatively clean breakup compared to bands like GNR or Van Halen. I don't think a DT reunion is that far out of the realms of possibility, I just think MP is asking for it too early. Give it time and maybe it'll happen.

Breakup? Reunion?
The band never split! They just replaced the drummer, after all. And didn't even take too long to come back with a new album. In the golden years, Yes changed drummer pretty frequently and no one ever talked about "Yes breakup". Ok Portnoy was a founder member, the one who gave the name to the band (his beloved father's advice), has been there for decades, but that doesn't qualify for "breakup".

[Darkstarshades]

Imagine you part ways with a friend, and that friend goes away to do his stuff, various differences between you two and maybe he moves to another city altogether.

And after that, you meet a new friend, and you start to trust each other. 5 years is damn enough time to put large amounts of your trust and friendship on someone, would you tell that new friend to go fuck himself just because your old friend decides to come back?

They basically share many things during the months a tour lasts, and the writing and the recording, so stop treating it as if it was merely a business relationship, which is not.
They clearly get along, and Portnoy, while still relevant and they possibly still care very much about him, is just not anymore in their daily lives, which MM is.

I'm pretty sure MP wants the Kevin Moore treatment, where the band repeatedly invites him to come back to remember old DT days, and remember, between KM leaving the band and the Roseland show (in which, as far as I know KM was invited to perform SDV) there are 5 years, which is around the time MP has out of the band.