Author Topic: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?  (Read 56989 times)

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Offline contest_sanity

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #420 on: April 08, 2017, 01:09:42 PM »
Despite making it to the playoffs the two prior years, nobody took them seriously in 2014/2015

While in general you're pretty right on this point, one very notable exception was Zach Lowe, who wrote a column in January of 2014 (!!!) arguing for the Warriors as championship contenders. This was still in the Mark Jackson-era. So give Lowe some props at least for having an idea of what was possible way before most other analysts did.

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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #421 on: April 10, 2017, 08:27:39 AM »
As much as I dislike Westbrook's style of play, with him now officially having that amazing triple-double stat, I think it would be a travesty for him to not win MVP.  I haven't really injected myself into the MVP discussion for a lot of reasons, but I think it's now gotten to the point where Westbrook has to win it despite Harden's season and the fact that LeBron and Leanard are better all-around players. 

Somewhat-related:  The 3-6 playoff matchup in the west should be pretty epic.
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Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #422 on: April 10, 2017, 08:39:41 AM »
As much as I dislike Westbrook's style of play, with him now officially having that amazing triple-double stat, I think it would be a travesty for him to not win MVP.  I haven't really injected myself into the MVP discussion for a lot of reasons, but I think it's now gotten to the point where Westbrook has to win it despite Harden's season and the fact that LeBron and Leanard are better all-around players. 

Somewhat-related:  The 3-6 playoff matchup in the west should be pretty epic.

I don't know about epic... it is still a damn first round match up  :lol  That being said, it should be a very fun but intense series. I expect JH and RW would go off in alternate games, and in the end OKC winning the series.
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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #423 on: April 10, 2017, 10:01:11 AM »
I'd prefer to see OKC win that series but I just don't feel these two teams are in the same tier and can easily see the Rockets winning in 5 or 6.
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Offline Accelerando

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #424 on: April 10, 2017, 03:18:46 PM »
James Harden has come out saying that winning should be a top factor in the MVP race....so with that logic, Kawhi Leonard is locked in for the award lol

Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #425 on: April 10, 2017, 07:46:36 PM »
While I love witnessing the Cavs suffer, but is it just me? When your team is slumping this late in the season, why would you still rest your main guys, instead of giving all of them some chances to do "tune ups" in a real game?
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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #426 on: April 10, 2017, 07:58:37 PM »
Not sure it really matters.
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Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #427 on: April 10, 2017, 08:40:19 PM »
Not sure it really matters.

You maybe right. Plus, Cleveland probably thinks being #2 is an easier road and it's not a guarantee that the C's will get to the ECF, so they still could have Home court then.
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Offline Samsara

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #428 on: April 11, 2017, 08:42:24 AM »
I don't understand the logic of the MVP debate.

Most VALUABLE Player.

To me, like I think most of us, that means a combination of the player's individual performance meshed with just how key that player is to the team's success.

In my mind, teams like Cleveland and San Antonio should be able to, give then stars on their roster, win without James and Leonard, respectively. Cleveland has Irving (who could be MVP on a different team) and Love, and is deep, while San Antonio has Aldridge and Gasol (albeit a bit past his prime) and is also deep.

That leaves Harden with Houston, and Westrbook with OKC. I think both are vital to the success of each team. Without either of them, neither of those teams are going to the playoffs. Potentially Houston could scrap a bit, and get there, but I doubt it. So by that logic, Westbrook should have an edge, just because without him, OKC would be cellar dwelling. That team has no one on it. Oladipo is good, but not as good as I thought he'd be. Kanter and Adams are solid, but nothing spectacular. Without Westbrook putting up his gaudy numbers, that team doesn't sniff the playoffs.

Edge - Westbrook.

Stats-wise, they speak for themselves. Harden plays in a system that highlights the PG. D'Antoni used it to make Chris Duhon look like a salvageable starter in this league for a time. Harden was an All Star and great player before D'Antoni, so obviously, his talent has a big part to do with his numbers as well, but they are inflated a tad (not much, but a tad).

Westbrook, on the other hand, HAS to carry the load, and has exploded. Sure, he takes and misses a lot of shots, but so did Iverson in his MVP season. Like Iverson, Westbrook has to take those shots to make the team competitive.

So to me, this is a no-brainer, even if Westbrook didn't set the triple-double record, or even if he didn't average a triple-double. The fact he did solidifies it even more. Then if you think about how OKC lost Durant, but didn't replace him with anyone near his talent level, it made Westbrook's job harder. To me, this is a no-brainer. Westbrook is the league MVP, and it shouldn't even be a question.

And I am very much a pro-Sonics guy (the Wolves, Sonics, and Knicks were my teams, in that order), so giving anyone involved in the OKC franchise credit these days is tough. But Westbrook's year is just undeniable. Arguably the greatest individual season in NBA history
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Offline KevShmev

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #429 on: April 11, 2017, 04:56:44 PM »
I do not think it is as simple as saying, "Take James off Cleveland and they still win a lot of games," considering half of those guys wouldn't even be on the team if James wasn't there.  That is the argument I have made before: James merely being on the team is crazy high value since it makes role players want to go there and play. 

I also think it is not true that Westbrook has to shoot a ton to make them competitive.  In the 10 games this season with his fewest shot attempts, the Thunder are 7-3.  They are 39-31 in all of the others.  Translation: the Thunder are better when Westbrook shoots less and the rest of the team is more involved.  But wait, there is already a guy like that...James Harden.  Harden is basically a better Westbrook this season.  I think the media will fall for the "OMG, a triple-double" silliness and give it to Westbrook, but history has shown that NBA MVP voters are really clueless.  *cough* Steve Nash *cough*

Note: I think Westbrook, despite not being a very efficient player, has had a tremendous season. I just don't think he's the MVP.

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #430 on: April 11, 2017, 05:34:32 PM »
Good counterpoints. I guess we will see. When does voting close, and when is it announced? The latter is during the conf. finals, right?
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Offline TheOutlawXanadu

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #431 on: April 12, 2017, 08:19:25 AM »
Good counterpoints. I guess we will see. When does voting close, and when is it announced? The latter is during the conf. finals, right?

This year they are announcing the results during an awards show, which is only happening after the season. Yes, you read that right. :lol
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Offline Samsara

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #432 on: April 12, 2017, 08:59:13 AM »

This year they are announcing the results during an awards show, which is only happening after the season. Yes, you read that right. :lol

 :facepalm:

In other news, the damn Timberwolves lost again, to a Westbrook-less OKC...at home. So glad the season is coming to an end. The Wolves showed so much promise after the All Star break, and then Lavine and Belicia (yes, I know I spelled it wrong) went down, and so did the Wolves' season. They need a ton of help on the defensive side of the ball. Thibs better figure it out this offseason. On a positive note, I like the new Wolves logo. I hated the angry wolf with the trees. New look:



>>>Harkens back to the original logo, and captures the essence of the alternate logo in use now. The only thing that I'm not feeling on this is the green star. I don't think it needed to be green. But otherwise, I like it.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #433 on: April 12, 2017, 09:24:20 AM »
The green reminds me too much of the Seahawks.  :tempus:  But otherwise, I quite like it.
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Offline Nekov

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #434 on: April 12, 2017, 02:09:45 PM »
Yeah, nice logo.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #435 on: April 13, 2017, 12:34:53 PM »
I just want to say:  lolCavs
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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #436 on: April 13, 2017, 12:54:31 PM »
I love both 3/6 matchups in the first round. Honestly, I feel they could go either way. The Bucks have a legit shot if both Giannis and Middleton can get hot.
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Offline T-ski

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #437 on: April 13, 2017, 03:03:45 PM »
I love both 3/6 matchups in the first round. Honestly, I feel they could go either way. The Bucks have a legit shot if both Giannis and Middleton can get hot.

the Raptors have been a bad matchup for the Bucks the last few years.  Lowry and Derozan are too quick for the Bucks backcourt.  I'd love to see the upset happen, but I don't see it.
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Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #438 on: April 13, 2017, 09:32:57 PM »
the Raptors have been a bad matchup for the Bucks the last few years.  Lowry and Derozan are too quick for the Bucks backcourt.  I'd love to see the upset happen, but I don't see it.

The 3/6 match ups in both conferences are quite intriguing.

As for the Bucks/Raptors series, per what I saw over the past 2-3 playoffs from the Raptors... sorry, I just don't have much faith in them this year. They won't go far this year even if they get pass the Bucks. There is no way they can beat the Cavs, even though the Cavs sort of slumped through the final few weeks of the regular season...

Slightly off topic... I miss those days when first rounds were best of 5...
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Offline jingle.boy

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #439 on: April 14, 2017, 05:36:17 AM »
I just want to say:  lolCavs

Nothing like limping into the playoffs on a 4-game losing streak, and 10-14 since the beginning of March.  They look anything but the scariest team in the East.

Raptors have picked a good time to get hot, coming into the playoffs on a 12-2 run.  I don't know much about the Bucs, but the feeling here in the city is pretty good.  There's a good shot they can repeat their run to the conference finals.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #440 on: April 14, 2017, 07:26:27 AM »
Count me as officially pulling for them.
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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #441 on: April 14, 2017, 03:59:43 PM »
As for the Bucks/Raptors series, per what I saw over the past 2-3 playoffs from the Raptors... sorry, I just don't have much faith in them this year. They won't go far this year even if they get pass the Bucks. There is no way they can beat the Cavs, even though the Cavs sort of slumped through the final few weeks of the regular season...

I think the Cavs are in a legitimate slump.  There's no way they were okay with losing the #1 seed.  They just couldn't hold onto it.  But the problem for the other teams in the east is that the Cavs have an easy first round that will probably allow them to regroup and get their rhythm back.  So teams facing them in rounds 2 and 3 are going to see a rejuvenated "playoff version" of the Cavs, even though they aren't there yet. 
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Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #442 on: April 15, 2017, 05:26:13 PM »
Bleacher report is saying C's Isaiah Thomas' sister was killed in a car crash this morning... bad news... :(

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Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #443 on: April 15, 2017, 05:54:42 PM »
As said above, I do not have faith for the Raptors... and as expected they didn't show up in Game 1.  I don't know what the score would have been if they didn't go to the FT line so many times... :hat
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Offline Azyiu

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #444 on: April 16, 2017, 09:35:22 AM »
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #445 on: April 17, 2017, 12:06:43 AM »
Wow, I haven't seen a team jobbed by the refs as much as the Warriors were today since, well, last year's finals.  But still pulled off a win that was decisive in the end.  I don't see the Blazers keeping up with the Warriors.  Their back court played out of their minds today and still fell short.  I think this series goes no more than 5.
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Offline Destiny Of Chaos

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #446 on: April 17, 2017, 04:17:19 AM »

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #447 on: April 19, 2017, 07:59:57 AM »
Wow, Boston is in major trouble.  I mean, Indiana is as well.  But the difference is, I don't think many were really expecting them to do anything against the Cavs.  I don't think anyone was expecting Boston to be down 2 heading to Chicago.
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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #448 on: April 19, 2017, 08:13:09 AM »
Wow, Boston is in major trouble.  I mean, Indiana is as well.  But the difference is, I don't think many were really expecting them to do anything against the Cavs.  I don't think anyone was expecting Boston to be down 2 heading to Chicago.

The only reason the Boston losses are surprising is because I thought Chicago was dysfunctional. But their big three of Wade-Butler-Rondo are finally gelling at the right time. Any other year, had there not been so much drama in Chicago, I would have pegged them to be a higher seed and figured a deep playoff run. But I didn't this year because I thought they were completely out-of-whack. But they have rallied at the right time, and could cause problems moving forward.

Boston is in trouble. What happened with IT4's sister is terrible, but Thomas is playing like the all star he is. He needs help, and he has none. Ainge's long term plan may be successful, and holding onto those picks might prove fruitful in the years to come, but he really shortchanged this season. I wonder if he's going to trade IT4 as well. It seems everyone doubts the ability of a dude who is short to carry a team. They easily forget that while Iverson was listed as 6'0", he was only 5'9" himself...and he was an MVP and led a team to the finals. But I have a feeling Ainge is going to jettison Thomas. I hope not, because he's one of my favorite players, and I do believe he can lead the Celtics to a title (hopefully not at the expense of the Wolves in future years, but that's getting ahead of myself).

Indiana is done. They were done before the series started. Paul George has set himself up nicely for a huge pay day, however. We'll see if its the Lakers or he stays with the Pacers. I am betting on the Lakers.
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Offline King Postwhore

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #449 on: April 19, 2017, 08:20:44 AM »
Wow, Boston is in major trouble.  I mean, Indiana is as well.  But the difference is, I don't think many were really expecting them to do anything against the Cavs.  I don't think anyone was expecting Boston to be down 2 heading to Chicago.

This has been the standard the last 3 years for the C's.

They can't turn it up a notch in the playoffs while other teams can.  Not enough talent in their top 7 players. 
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #450 on: April 19, 2017, 08:36:30 AM »
I don't think I could majorly disagree with any of that if I tried.  But the thing is, I didn't expect anyone else in the east that they would meet in the first 2 rounds to be able to do anything to challenge them. 
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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #451 on: April 19, 2017, 09:19:07 AM »
As a fan of the team I had hopes but seeing the last 2 1st round playoff exits had me hesitating to hop on that bus.  I needed at least a series win in the the playoffs to feel better about them.
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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #452 on: April 19, 2017, 11:08:51 AM »
For the last 5-6 weeks, I've had this feeling that the Celtics were punching out of their weight class.  They are proving me right.  I think a lot of people had a feeling this series had a good chance of being an "upset".  The Bulls still have 2 more to go, but the C's ain't looking good.

Raptors had a good bounce-back game to even the series.  Strong effort from the Lowry/DeRozan, and balance from the rest of the floor.
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Offline bosk1

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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #453 on: April 19, 2017, 11:21:52 AM »
For the last 5-6 weeks, I've had this feeling that the Celtics were punching out of their weight class.  They are proving me right.  I think a lot of people had a feeling this series had a good chance of being an "upset".  The Bulls still have 2 more to go, but the C's ain't looking good.

Yeah, maybe.  Admittedly, I haven't watched any of their games outside the games against the Warriors, so maybe my assessment of them was completely off.  But just amassing enough wins to have taken the #1 seed, and a lot of that coming from momentum at the end of the season where they were pretty hot, I didn't see a #8 beating them. 
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Re: NBA thread 2016-17 v. The Age of The Land?
« Reply #454 on: April 19, 2017, 01:46:34 PM »
And bosk1 they play well against the Warriors but I've seen enough of the last 3 years to know they can't get to that next gear. 

I'm really disappointed in Al Horford.  All that money (which is the Celtics fault) and he does not produce like a top 2 player on a team.  He is no star making star money.
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