Author Topic: The Ask twosuitsluke Thread  (Read 109960 times)

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Offline Orbert

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #630 on: October 11, 2016, 11:19:16 AM »
Wait, you work in North Chicago/Lake Bluff area? I teach in North Chicago just up the road from the Naval base. We should grab lunch sometime or something.

What is your favorite non-music thing to do?

Splent, I thought you were out in the Southwest suburbs or something.  I was just off 41 until a few years ago, then they moved us to Buffalo Grove.  We move again later this month, to Vernon Hills.  Still close enough for lunch, though.  You probably get, what 45 minutes or something?  I'd have to come to you.  My hours I'm sure are more flexible than yours.

When I'm not doing something music-related, I play a game called Diablo III.  Before that, I played Diablo II, and before that, you guessed it, Diablo.  I don't actually play a lot of computer games, but something about the Diablo series has always attracted and intrigued me.  Plus, I'm pretty good at it and it's a hell of a lot of fun.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #631 on: October 11, 2016, 11:24:57 AM »
I can fool most people, but I know I'm not doing it right.

Funny thing is, most people would be happy enough to be able to fool people into believing they nailed it.  Despite that, knowing yourself that you didn't is sooooooooo frustrating.  Been there many times.

Same thing with the band not playing something right or not being very "good".  Most of the audience doesn't really recognize how wrong things are, but as a musician, my ear is so tuned in to everything, that anything off stands out like a sore thumb.

Offline Orbert

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #632 on: October 11, 2016, 11:37:22 AM »
Yep.  Part of entertainment is the presentation, which means that the performance itself often only has to be "good enough".  Most gigs, actually every gig so far, people scream and tell us how great we are, but we know where we fucked up, and we still listen to the recordings and identify what went wrong, and work to fix it.  Only by constantly pushing for perfection can you continue to improve, and if you're not constantly trying to improve, you suck.  There's no place for complacency.  Complacency leads to laziness, laziness leads to apathy, apathy leads to the Dark Side.

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #633 on: October 11, 2016, 11:56:50 AM »
I love that distinction you guys are making between "sounds right" and "IS right".  It's one thing for an artist to interpret another's work, and to do so in a way that is different than what was first presented, and another thing entirely to "get close" to what the work is supposed to be.  I don't know about you guys, but I feel I can absolutely tell when an artist "simplified" a work in order to make a point or distill down to the essence, versus when an artist "simplified" a work because they couldn't get the full nuance of the original piece. 

Does that make sense?  I think that was what you were going for when you said "but I know". 

Offline axeman90210

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #634 on: October 11, 2016, 12:10:08 PM »
Yeah, I know how that goes, but for me it's with my brewing. I always say that nobody hates my beer more than me :lol

On that note, what's your poison Orbert?
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #635 on: October 11, 2016, 12:15:34 PM »
I love that distinction you guys are making between "sounds right" and "IS right".  It's one thing for an artist to interpret another's work, and to do so in a way that is different than what was first presented, and another thing entirely to "get close" to what the work is supposed to be.  I don't know about you guys, but I feel I can absolutely tell when an artist "simplified" a work in order to make a point or distill down to the essence, versus when an artist "simplified" a work because they couldn't get the full nuance of the original piece. 

Does that make sense?  I think that was what you were going for when you said "but I know". 

Totally makes sense.  That thing in the Chopin piece where the melody is actually a sixteenth after the beat is the perfect example.  When you listen to a professional recording, to my ears, it actually sounds a bit "wrong" when it's played correctly, because the melody is the equivalent of quarter notes, each one played "late".  As it goes on, your ears adjust to the timing and it flows, but you literally have to ignore the bass and mid for that to happen because none of it is in synch.

When I started working it up, my right hand kept wanting to place those notes on the beat, which relegated the first sixteenth in each group to grace note status.  It actually sounds fine because now the melody synchs up with the rest of what's going on.  It probably even sounds better to some ears, possibly most.  Only someone familiar with the piece on a technical level knows that that's not where those notes belong.  Chopin wrote the piece as a technical exercise, and never published it for reasons that are still not entirely clear (and perhaps never will be).  My guess is that he literally decided to write a piece where the melody is out of synch and see if he could make it work.

It does, mostly, but there's no question that it's a bizarre piece, and I kinda like my version better.  But that's somewhere between simplified while preserving the essence of the piece and simplified because I can't play it as written.  A third option which is both, and also has the added feature of sounding cleaner.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #636 on: October 11, 2016, 12:18:58 PM »
I love that distinction you guys are making between "sounds right" and "IS right".  It's one thing for an artist to interpret another's work, and to do so in a way that is different than what was first presented, and another thing entirely to "get close" to what the work is supposed to be.  I don't know about you guys, but I feel I can absolutely tell when an artist "simplified" a work in order to make a point or distill down to the essence, versus when an artist "simplified" a work because they couldn't get the full nuance of the original piece. 

Does that make sense?  I think that was what you were going for when you said "but I know". 

My rambling response, hopefully it makes some sense.  I seem to communicate better with a guitar than I do via text.  :lol

An example.  We did Bark at the Moon in my old band.  Very tough solo, especially the sixteenth notes at the end.  I could mostly fake my way through that section and nobody in the audience, save very astute musicians, would know that I didn't get it right.  I knew I didn't play it right and as such I couldn't go around letting people tell me I nailed it or anything, because I didn't and it grated on me.  So I sat down with that whole section, re-wrote the tab in several different positions, until I found a way to play it that was easiest for me to actually pull off.  Then I sat with a metronome and slowed it down to a speed where I knew I could play the entire section correctly.  Then over the next week or so, I would do this and bump the speed up a hair each time, and practice it until I could play it.  Eventually, I managed to get it up to speed and pull it off.  It's still hard, but it's "right", most of the time, now.

Another instance.  I have seen a NUMBER of bands just in my area, who have taken standards that my bands have always played, and played very basic, simplified versions of them, I feel like because it's the best they can offer on said song.  I've compared them to other bands that really take pride in being top notch and presenting everything about the song the best that it can be presented.  I see the considerable disparity between the two and I still see crowds come to see the "lesser" band, drink, dance, and have a good time.  While the whole time, my analytical ear (truly a curse sometimes) is saying "Oh my God, they're butchering this song".  I hear it.  I cringe.  And the crowd dances on.  They mostly don't notice or care.  Or as Orbert said, when we mess something up, I kick myself for it, when I've been told my friends and such that "Nobody notices".

So it IS odd that when we already kinda know that crowds just want to hear a vaguely coherent version of something they can dance to, we still kinda beat ourselves up about not doing the best we can.  We strive to make it the best that it can be, because the music is important to us, despite knowing that the average person in the crowd isn't going to recognize that one of us sang unison instead of harmony, or that the solo wasn't exactly the same as the album, or that somebody hit a wrong note somewhere, or any other laundry list of pitfalls that occur when playing live.  It's difficult to reconcile the need to make it the best version of a song that the crowd will ever hear with the fact that they will likely never recognize the difference.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #637 on: October 11, 2016, 12:28:47 PM »
Okay, so I just listened to the Chopin piece.  Holy shit.

Ask any musician you know to tap triplets with one hand and sixteenth notes with the other hand.  Even a drummer.  Have them do it as slowly as possible.  They'll have difficulty.  I have a tough time doing it at 60 bpm.  Damn.

Offline splent

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #638 on: October 11, 2016, 12:29:35 PM »
Wait, you work in North Chicago/Lake Bluff area? I teach in North Chicago just up the road from the Naval base. We should grab lunch sometime or something.

What is your favorite non-music thing to do?

Splent, I thought you were out in the Southwest suburbs or something.  I was just off 41 until a few years ago, then they moved us to Buffalo Grove.  We move again later this month, to Vernon Hills.  Still close enough for lunch, though.  You probably get, what 45 minutes or something?  I'd have to come to you.  My hours I'm sure are more flexible than yours.

When I'm not doing something music-related, I play a game called Diablo III.  Before that, I played Diablo II, and before that, you guessed it, Diablo.  I don't actually play a lot of computer games, but something about the Diablo series has always attracted and intrigued me.  Plus, I'm pretty good at it and it's a hell of a lot of fun.

I live near Schaumburg and teach in N Chicago. I've been teaching in Lake Cty for about 4 years now in various places. When you saw me in the band I did live and teach down there though.

We should plan something, but nothing too soon as I'm dealing with some family health issues.

I've played Diablo. Its fun. Don't have it anymore though, that was YEARS ago.
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Offline Orbert

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #639 on: October 11, 2016, 12:32:38 PM »
Yeah, I know how that goes, but for me it's with my brewing. I always say that nobody hates my beer more than me :lol

On that note, what's your poison Orbert?

I don't drink much, as I have the classic Asian intolerance for alcohol.  Two beers and I'm all red-faced and sweaty, feel dizzy, but unfortunately do not feel drunk or even buzzed in any way which I find pleasant.  When I was playing regularly, many places let the band drink free, or one per set or something like that, so I became accustomed to Whiskey & Coke.  Mostly sweat it out and rarely felt anything other than less thirsty.  Jack Daniel's is my preferred Whiskey, and one of the few I can drink without throwing up.  This is possibly because my mother cooked a lot with whiskey, so even though the alcohol evaporated, perhaps the other ingredients remained and I'm quite tolerant of them.  I don't know.  I don't know how that kind of thing works.  If I'm in a social situation and choose to partake, Jack & Coke.

But my preferred poison is combustible, by a wide margin.  I haven't touched alcohol in years.  I've smoked... more recently than that.

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #640 on: October 11, 2016, 12:40:04 PM »
Where were you born?
Where have you lived?
Where will you die?

Offline Orbert

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #641 on: October 11, 2016, 12:45:18 PM »
So it IS odd that when we already kinda know that crowds just want to hear a vaguely coherent version of something they can dance to, we still kinda beat ourselves up about not doing the best we can.  We strive to make it the best that it can be, because the music is important to us, despite knowing that the average person in the crowd isn't going to recognize that one of us sang unison instead of harmony, or that the solo wasn't exactly the same as the album, or that somebody hit a wrong note somewhere, or any other laundry list of pitfalls that occur when playing live.  It's difficult to reconcile the need to make it the best version of a song that the crowd will ever hear with the fact that they will likely never recognize the difference.

Exactly.  We came off the stage last weekend and people were going nuts.  The guys from Kashmir, the headliners, told us we were great and could open for them any time.  But our singer came in early several times.  Our one guitarist has never gotten certain background harmonies right.  I fucked up a major piano part, and (I thought) it was really obvious.  That kind of thing.  Our drummer was so frustrated that at the end of our set, he threw his sticks.  The crowd thought it was great.  Rock and Roll!  But I saw his face; he was pissed.  He was glad we were fucking done and was ready to get the hell out of there.  Ha ha, then we got an encore and he had to pull out more sticks.  But as soon as he had the chance later, he told John that goddammit, she has got to learn the fucking songs.  John was like yeah, yeah, I'll talk to her.  But the crowd had no idea.  They though we were great.

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Okay, so I just listened to the Chopin piece.  Holy shit.

Ask any musician you know to tap triplets with one hand and sixteenth notes with the other hand.  Even a drummer.  Have them do it as slowly as possible.  They'll have difficulty.  I have a tough time doing it at 60 bpm.  Damn.

Holy shit is right.  Just gotta learn both parts, then put the left hand on auto-pilot so the right hand to concentrate on the melody.  That's why the only way I can do it is if they're in synch.

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #642 on: October 11, 2016, 01:37:35 PM »
So it IS odd that when we already kinda know that crowds just want to hear a vaguely coherent version of something they can dance to, we still kinda beat ourselves up about not doing the best we can.  We strive to make it the best that it can be, because the music is important to us, despite knowing that the average person in the crowd isn't going to recognize that one of us sang unison instead of harmony, or that the solo wasn't exactly the same as the album, or that somebody hit a wrong note somewhere, or any other laundry list of pitfalls that occur when playing live.  It's difficult to reconcile the need to make it the best version of a song that the crowd will ever hear with the fact that they will likely never recognize the difference.

Exactly.  We came off the stage last weekend and people were going nuts.  The guys from Kashmir, the headliners, told us we were great and could open for them any time.  But our singer came in early several times.  Our one guitarist has never gotten certain background harmonies right.  I fucked up a major piano part, and (I thought) it was really obvious.  That kind of thing.  Our drummer was so frustrated that at the end of our set, he threw his sticks.  The crowd thought it was great.  Rock and Roll!  But I saw his face; he was pissed.  He was glad we were fucking done and was ready to get the hell out of there.  Ha ha, then we got an encore and he had to pull out more sticks.  But as soon as he had the chance later, he told John that goddammit, she has got to learn the fucking songs.  John was like yeah, yeah, I'll talk to her.  But the crowd had no idea.  They though we were great.

I'm talking about something just a shade different.    You're talking about a song that is one way (let's say "Way A") and you were shooting for "A" but got to "B" and the crowd didn't give a shit, but you do because you're shooting for "A".   That's just pride and discipline and drive.    I'm saying something slightly different.    The original was "Way A", the way Chopin intended.   Then there's "Way B(1)", which is you playing it - on purpose - in synch because, say, the melody is prettier or it is more melancholy , or whatever.  So you're TRYING for "B(1)" and nailing it.  Then there's "Way B(2)" which is you just playing it the easiest way you can to get the point across, get laid, or take a paycheck, whatever.

I'm saying that I feel like I can tell the difference between "B(1)" and "B(2)".   I feel like Page and Plant doing the "No Quarter" acoustic reimagining project was B(1), and 90% of bands that try to play Zeppelin (and, for example, fuck up the intro to "Rock and Roll") are doing B(2).   


Coz, can you sing and play guitar at the same time (I mean more than basic block chords)? 

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #643 on: October 11, 2016, 01:43:45 PM »
I offer these:

One, I went and listened to that Chopin piece.  One of the comments:  "i get it now why he's called chopin... He's choppin' those notes like onions, damn."

Two, 11 years old.  I don't post this to belittle you, Obert, but in admiration of this kid who tackled what I agree is an incredibly hard piece.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFC8VEFAeos  (One of the comments here: "This kid just shitted on my entire life.")

Back on topic.......   


Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #644 on: October 11, 2016, 01:51:48 PM »
Yeah, a lot of the bands I see around here are in B2 category.  I've been in B2 bands.  But I have always done my level best to push the members of my bands to be better than B2.  But that's the thing I was saying.  Despite a musician's desire to present A or even B1, most people won't recognize the difference in those and B2.  They might recognize a B1 type scenario where we take a song and specifically choose to do it a certain way, different from the original, like your No Quarter example.

Here's an example of a B1 moment that made people take notice:  Mary Jane's Last Dance and the Chili Peppers' Dani California are the same chord progression throughout the verses.  One night we started DC.  Got through the first verse and without telling anyone, I then started singing the first verse of MJLD.  Since the chorus vocal for DC starts just before the actual chorus (measure-wise), and MJLD starts on the ONE of the chorus, I went with DC, so the guys would know which chorus we were going to do just before they needed to know.  We dipped back and forth between the two songs, completely off the cuff, and surprisingly didn't f*ck it up.  It was spontaneous magic that we hadn't rehearsed and had never even discussed doing.  I started it and everybody locked in and made it work.  So cool.

So in answer to that question, yeah, I had to do lots and lots of singing and playing in previous bands.  Mostly classic rock stuff, but yeah.  I'll try to find some video.  Also, I guess we should take this to the musician's thread, so as not to get off the topic of Orbert answering questions.  :lol

Video found:  https://www.dreamtheaterforums.org/boards/index.php?topic=3241.msg2225370#msg2225370
« Last Edit: October 11, 2016, 02:12:55 PM by Sir GuitarCozmo »

Offline Orbert

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #645 on: October 11, 2016, 02:13:29 PM »
Heh heh.  Thanks.   ;)

Where were you born?
Where have you lived?
Where will you die?

Born in Detroit, Michigan.  Yeah, Baybay!!

I've lived in Michigan (many different towns), Maryland (two towns), and Illinois (three towns, including current)

Probably Illinois, unless it's while travelling, in which case I have no idea.

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #646 on: October 11, 2016, 07:59:49 PM »
Nice, thanks.  :tup   

Where has been your favorite place to live, excluding where you're living now?

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #647 on: October 11, 2016, 08:02:17 PM »
Can you teach me to be as cool as you?

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #648 on: October 11, 2016, 10:18:39 PM »
Wanna get together and do some four hand piano some time? Or just jam? :lol

Do you follow any sports teams (please don't say the bears)?

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Offline Orbert

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #649 on: October 11, 2016, 11:14:30 PM »
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Where has been your favorite place to live, excluding where you're living now?

That would be the city I grew up in, Lansing, Michigan.  We had no idea how good we had it, but looking back, it was an incredible place at an incredible time.  Late 60's into the 70's.  Our neighborhood was "new development", so the house itself was brand new.  We didn't get tons of junk mail addressed to people who used to live there, or phone calls for people who'd moved out long ago, because no one else had ever lived at that address.  Some areas had houses under construction for years after we moved in, so there was a never-ending source of places to play.  The neighborhood pool was enclosed, so it was open year-round, and it was right across the street.  And at least half the families on our street had kids, so we all grew up together.  Kickball games in the street, football in various backyards, everybody getting along and looking out for each other.  No one locked their doors except at night when they went to bed.  People left their garage doors open, because it was a hassle to open and close it all the time, and if anything ever got stolen, it was big news, and very rare.

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Can you teach me to be as cool as you?

No.  I'm sorry.

Despite the idyllic scenario I just painted above, I was never comfortable in my own skin.  There was one Asian family in our neighborhood, us.  There was one black family.  The entire population of my elementary school was otherwise white, and it was a big school (four or five classrooms of each grade), so everyone knew us, or knew about us.  I wasn't smart and popular like my older sister, or cute and popular like my little sister.  I was a nerd geek loser.  School chess champion.  Runner-up in the all-city spelling bee.  I got beaten up sometimes.

To this day, I don't consider myself cool, but rather someone who pretends he's cool, tries to do things other people think are cool, in hopes that people will be fooled into thinking I'm actually cool.  But it's all an act.  I'm only pretending to be cool; I'm actually still the nerd geek loser I've always been.  Computer programmer, former Algebra teacher.  It doesn't get much worse than that, though I haven't gotten beaten up in a while.

On weekends, though, I get to pretend I'm a rock star.  I live to play music.

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Wanna get together and do some four hand piano some time? Or just jam? :lol

Do you follow any sports teams (please don't say the bears)?

Absolutely.  We just have to figure out a time and a place.

I still follow the Detroit Tigers and Detroit Lions.  Never been a big basketball or hockey fan, but baseball and football are great.  And of course Michigan State, my alma mater.  I've lived here in Chicagoland longer now than I lived in Michigan, but I don't give a damn about the Bears, Cubs, or White Sox.  Detroit is my home team.

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #650 on: October 12, 2016, 12:49:21 AM »
Orbert I was actually about to PM you when I saw the thread title! :lol
What happened with the iPod surgery you were gonna attempt? did it work out?
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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #651 on: October 12, 2016, 05:08:28 AM »
Quote
Where has been your favorite place to live, excluding where you're living now?

That would be the city I grew up in, Lansing, Michigan.  We had no idea how good we had it, but looking back, it was an incredible place at an incredible time.  Late 60's into the 70's.  Our neighborhood was "new development", so the house itself was brand new.  We didn't get tons of junk mail addressed to people who used to live there, or phone calls for people who'd moved out long ago, because no one else had ever lived at that address.  Some areas had houses under construction for years after we moved in, so there was a never-ending source of places to play.  The neighborhood pool was enclosed, so it was open year-round, and it was right across the street.  And at least half the families on our street had kids, so we all grew up together.  Kickball games in the street, football in various backyards, everybody getting along and looking out for each other.  No one locked their doors except at night when they went to bed.  People left their garage doors open, because it was a hassle to open and close it all the time, and if anything ever got stolen, it was big news, and very rare.


Sounds like a nice place to live. Is it still that safe? Have you ever gone back just to check everything out?

Offline Orbert

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #652 on: October 12, 2016, 07:14:23 AM »
Quote
What happened with the iPod surgery you were gonna attempt? did it work out?

The surgery was a success!  I finally got up the balls do it, which was not trivial by any means.  Opening an iPod is a pain; they're meant to be permanently sealed at the factory.  Obviously with patience and the proper tools (or close enough), you can get one open.  I replaced the hard drive with a solid state 256GB card, but the operating system only recognizes 128GB.  Once again, close enough, as it was replacing a 160GB hard drive.  Also replaced the battery, and now since it doesn't quite all fit back together properly (the case got a little mangled), the skin which was originally cosmetic now holds it all together.

But it's functional again, and access times are much faster, as one would expect with an SSD vs HD.  And a nice side effect that I hadn't considered is that the battery life is ridiculous.  We drove my daughter to college at the end of August, and took the SUV, which has an RF adaptor for Aux input, and of course since I was driving, we took my iPod.  12 hour drive, and when we got to the hotel, I still had 1/4 battery left.  At first I thought, yeah sweet, the new battery, but I'd never gone more than six or eight hours on a full charge before; the SSD uses a lot less juice, too.  I hadn't thought of that, so as I said, it was a nice plus.  Plugged it in overnight there in the hotel, and it made it all the way back, again with about a 1/4 battery to spare.  By extrapolation, it should last around 16 hours now, over twice what it used to.

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Where has been your favorite place to live, excluding where you're living now?

That would be the city I grew up in, Lansing, Michigan.  We had no idea how good we had it, but looking back, it was an incredible place at an incredible time.  Late 60's into the 70's.  Our neighborhood was "new development", so the house itself was brand new.  We didn't get tons of junk mail addressed to people who used to live there, or phone calls for people who'd moved out long ago, because no one else had ever lived at that address.  Some areas had houses under construction for years after we moved in, so there was a never-ending source of places to play.  The neighborhood pool was enclosed, so it was open year-round, and it was right across the street.  And at least half the families on our street had kids, so we all grew up together.  Kickball games in the street, football in various backyards, everybody getting along and looking out for each other.  No one locked their doors except at night when they went to bed.  People left their garage doors open, because it was a hassle to open and close it all the time, and if anything ever got stolen, it was big news, and very rare.
Sounds like a nice place to live. Is it still that safe? Have you ever gone back just to check everything out?

Michigan has been slowly dying and decaying since the U.S. auto industry collapsed in the late 70's, early 80's.  Detroit was synonymous with American auto manufacturing, and it was hit the hardest, but much of the rest of the state was built by the industry.  Cars, parts, machinery, railroads to move it all, all took a huge hit.  I left Michigan in 1990, and was sad, but glad to be escaping to greener pastures.

We still visit friends back home once or twice a year, and sometimes I'll swing through the old neighborhood.  It still looks the same, the trees are bigger, some houses are a different color now, but it's otherwise trapped in time.  I like that.  A few families I knew then are still there, which is amazing 40 years later.  My understanding is that Michigan has made a bit of a comeback in the past 10 years or so, but it's slow going.  Everyone has heard about the tap water in Flint.  Parts of Detroit are like a ghost town, entire blocks with maybe one or two houses occupied, the rest empty or burned.  Grand Rapids... well fuck Grand Rapids.  I never liked that town.  They're actually moving backwards there.  Marriage equality, racial profiling, super super conservative assholes in charge.

Lansing is doing a little better, being the state capitol and one of the centers of commerce, but Lansing was built by Oldsmobile, which is one of the brands which GM eliminated when they downsized (the other was Pontiac).  I used to love driving past the Oldsmobile plants on the way out to the mall when I was a kid.  If we were lucky, I'd see trains moving into or out of the buildings, moving stuff.  I thought that was so cool.  Those areas are now huge, empty fields.  Some areas still visibly paved, but with weeds and plants growing up through the pavement.  The huge office building with OLDSMOBILE on it was still standing last I knew, but it was empty.  I've heard that the schools have all gone to shit.  There's no money.  It's my home town, and I love it, but I'm glad I got out when I did.

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #653 on: October 12, 2016, 07:22:33 AM »
Orbert, what's your favorite kind of cheese?
Easiest classical or rock song a beginner could try to learn on a keyboard (i.e. not Happy Birthday or London Bridge)?
What foreign countries have you visited?
How many different instruments can you play?

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #654 on: October 12, 2016, 07:29:02 AM »
I'm only pretending to be cool; I'm actually still the nerd geek loser I've always been.  Computer programmer, former Algebra teacher.  It doesn't get much worse than that, though I haven't gotten beaten up in a while.

On weekends, though, I get to pretend I'm a rock star.  I live to play music.

All of which, of course, makes you cooler than a leather carseat in winter.

Favorite restaurant in Chicago?
Pizza (style and toppings) of your choice?
If you had to describe yourself using only one CD's worth of music, what would it be?   

Offline Sir GuitarCozmo

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #655 on: October 12, 2016, 07:30:17 AM »
I'm only pretending to be cool

Baloney.  Everybody knows that Orbert stories are the best stories.

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #656 on: October 12, 2016, 09:17:25 AM »
I'm only pretending to be cool

Baloney.  Everybody knows that Orbert stories are the best stories.

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Offline Orbert

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #657 on: October 12, 2016, 12:04:43 PM »
Quote
Orbert, what's your favorite kind of cheese?

I used to be all about sharp cheddar, but lately I've been getting into some of the white cheeses (and yes, I know that "real" cheddar is white, not orange).  Swiss is always good on sandwiches, or provolone.  For shaking liberally over pasta, good old parmesan.  For baking, like a real mac 'n' cheese, cheddar still rules.  My tastes are pretty simple in that area.

Quote
Easiest classical or rock song a beginner could try to learn on a keyboard (i.e. not Happy Birthday or London Bridge)?

I literally started with "Chopsticks" and "Heart and Soul".  We got a piano when I was ten, and those were the two songs my mom knew how to play, so she taught them to me and my older sister.  They're also both commonly played as duets, but it didn't take me long to observe that one person could technically play both parts at once, since there were never more than three notes being played at the same time by either part.  So I sat and worked out solo arrangements of each, and amazed my mom by "performing" them for her one time.  I've never really thought about it before, but I guess that was the beginning of what I do now, which is work up solo piano arrangements of my own, covering as much melody, harmony, chords, and rhythm as possible.

Those two pieces are actually great starting points.  They're simple, they're in C, and they have the basics of some standard progressions.  "Chopsticks" is just V-I over and over, but the "chorus" makes things a bit more interesting.  "Heart and Soul" is I-vi-IV-V.  I remember hearing "D'yer Mak'er" by Led Zeppelin on the radio and laughing my ass off the first time because it was so obviously I-vi-IV-V that I couldn't believe a "real" band had recorded a song using it.  It's just "Heart and Soul" -- which any third grader can play -- with different lyrics.

As for classical, "To a Wild Rose" first came to mind because it's a simple piece, slow and peaceful, thus easy to play and, with a bit of effort, easy to inject a lot of emotion into.  But I looked it up and it's in A.  Three sharps, so not really beginner level.  I don't remember where I started with classical.  By time I started lessons, I'd been playing for a while, so my teacher started me with a Level III method book.  My sister took lessons first, and when no one was home, I would "sneak" time on the piano playing through her lessons.  She caught me one time and was pissed because I was playing them better than her.  How could I not?  I listened to her practice the damned things over and over.  Of course when I finally sat down with the music in front of me, it would be nothing.

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What foreign countries have you visited?

Just Canada, which almost doesn't even count.  My dad is from Toronto, so we used to visit every summer.

Quote
How many different instruments can you play?

I guess that depends on how you count them.  I started on piano, and consider myself a synthesist as well by virtue of actually knowing how analog keyboards work and generate sounds.  I don't count organ as one I can truly play, because I'd never mastered the pedals.  If you can't play both manuals and pedals, you're not a real organist, although I did learn enough to fake it once for a friend's wedding.  I memorized the manual parts so could concentrate on the pedals and watch my feet.  That's probably cheating, but hey, I did it.

I picked up flute in school, and a piccolo is just a tiny flute, so the fingerings are the same; you have to have a strong embouchure though.  From there I went to saxophone, which again is mostly the same; just a few weird notes here and there.  I started on alto, but have played tenor as well.  Soprano and/or baritone would be the same.  I have played clarinet in band and in a pit orchestra once, but could get away with it because again it's mostly the same.  (All woodwinds use the Boehm system, which (mostly) standardizes the fingerings for notes.)

I have working knowledge of both trombone and trumpet as well.  When you took band at my grade school, you had your choice of flute, clarinet, cornet, and trombone.  We all sat in the same room and learned to play our parts, so by simply hearing the instructions over and over, I was able to pick them all up.  Trombone is the easiest; each position is a half-step, and you control the range via embouchure.  Cornet (cousin of the trumpet) was similar.  It didn't take long to figure out that "open" was C or G (or E up top) depending on your embouchure, the middle valve dropped you a half-step, first valve a whole step, third valve a step and a half.  I call it "working knowledge" because my hands and fingers know what to do; I just have issues getting my embouchure to cooperate because I don't actually practice those instruments.

Then you have things like recorder, which is mostly Boehm system.  I also have a kalimba, which is completely different, but I worked out the tunings one time and can play simple stuff on it.

Strings have always eluded me.  I've tried to play guitar and violin, but the concept of "multiple scales at once" boggles me.  One day, I'll sit down and give them each a serious attempt.

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Favorite restaurant in Chicago?

I don't eat downtown very often, and right now I can't think of any restaurants I've actually been to.  Probably the Pheonix in Chinatown.  Out here in the 'burbs, Carson's Ribs.  They rock.

Quote
Pizza (style and toppings) of your choice?

Thick crust, deep dish.  More for your money, more to love.  Chicken, spinach, mushrooms, tomatoes.  Black olives if I'm feeling extra ambitious.

Quote
If you had to describe yourself using only one CD's worth of music, what would it be?   

Chicago's first album, The Chicago Transit Authority.  A blending of many established styles into something new and different.  Deceptively simple at first glance, but each piece ultimately revealing greater depth and complexity upon closer examination.  Respect for established structures, but not afraid to vary from them when necessary, or when the results might be worthwhile.  Improvisation of every type, from working within classic norms to collaborating with others also improvising to completely free form and without structure.

I'm only pretending to be cool

Baloney.  Everybody knows that Orbert stories are the best stories.

QFT

You guys are too much.  Every word is true, but I learned long ago how to present things for better effect.  In general, I'm too "wordy", using 10 words when five would do.  I like to think of it as providing more, for those who want to dig deeper.

Offline LudwigVan

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #658 on: October 12, 2016, 12:08:45 PM »
Some more questions for Orbert, the most interesting man on DTF:

1. What are your favorite 3 books?

2. What are your favorite 3 movies?

3. What are your favorite 3 NON-70's based Prog bands?  Marillion? Spocks Beard? Haken? etc?
"There is nothing more difficult than talking about music."
--Camille Saint-Saëns

“All the good music has already been written by people with wigs and stuff.”
--Frank Zappa

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #659 on: October 12, 2016, 12:13:17 PM »
Okay, since we're of an age. Did you ever have a sweet stripped shirt like mine? (Third from the left, front row)

"Religion poisons everything” — Christopher Hitchens

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #660 on: October 12, 2016, 12:22:07 PM »
Quote
What happened with the iPod surgery you were gonna attempt? did it work out?

The surgery was a success!  I finally got up the balls do it, which was not trivial by any means.  Opening an iPod is a pain; they're meant to be permanently sealed at the factory.  Obviously with patience and the proper tools (or close enough), you can get one open.  I replaced the hard drive with a solid state 256GB card, but the operating system only recognizes 128GB.  Once again, close enough, as it was replacing a 160GB hard drive.  Also replaced the battery, and now since it doesn't quite all fit back together properly (the case got a little mangled), the skin which was originally cosmetic now holds it all together.

But it's functional again, and access times are much faster, as one would expect with an SSD vs HD.  And a nice side effect that I hadn't considered is that the battery life is ridiculous.  We drove my daughter to college at the end of August, and took the SUV, which has an RF adaptor for Aux input, and of course since I was driving, we took my iPod.  12 hour drive, and when we got to the hotel, I still had 1/4 battery left.  At first I thought, yeah sweet, the new battery, but I'd never gone more than six or eight hours on a full charge before; the SSD uses a lot less juice, too.  I hadn't thought of that, so as I said, it was a nice plus.  Plugged it in overnight there in the hotel, and it made it all the way back, again with about a 1/4 battery to spare.  By extrapolation, it should last around 16 hours now, over twice what it used to.

Freakin sweet! So if I understand you correctly; since my iPod is 80gig, I'm probably safer going with an 80gig SSD since it might not recognize a high capacity. I'm going to attempt this soon, did you use a certain tutorial or improvise?
I wouldn't want somebody with 18 kids to mow my damn lawn, based on a longstanding bias I have against crazy fucks.

Offline Orbert

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #661 on: October 12, 2016, 01:12:35 PM »
The guy I ordered it from provided some instructions on how to do it, but English is not his first language and some of it was a bit confusing.  I found at least three different YouTube videos, however, each of which presented things differently, and between them I was able to get the job done.

I was scared at first, but one of the videos talked about disconnecting the hard drive from the motherboard, being careful not to damage the ribbon controller (or something similar) and suddenly I realized that it's not some alien technology; it's just a dedicated minicomputer, and I've replaced drives and power supplies before.

The original 2007 was thicker to accomodate the 160GB drive, then the later 2007 ones were a bit thinner because it had one less platter inside.  I thought that that was the only difference, but it turns out that the operating system was updated as well.  Putting a 256GB card into a later-model 2007 would've resulted in a 256GB iPod.  It's the older operating system that only recognizes 128GB.

Since you have an 80GB model, this might be moot.  I don't think they make 80GB cards (they're usually powers of 2), but a 128 would probably be fine, and you might even end up with a 128GB solid state iPod.  I say go for it!

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #662 on: October 12, 2016, 01:25:25 PM »
Michigan has been slowly dying and decaying since the U.S. auto industry collapsed in the late 70's, early 80's.  Detroit was synonymous with American auto manufacturing, and it was hit the hardest, but much of the rest of the state was built by the industry.  Cars, parts, machinery, railroads to move it all, all took a huge hit.  I left Michigan in 1990, and was sad, but glad to be escaping to greener pastures.

We still visit friends back home once or twice a year, and sometimes I'll swing through the old neighborhood.  It still looks the same, the trees are bigger, some houses are a different color now, but it's otherwise trapped in time.  I like that.  A few families I knew then are still there, which is amazing 40 years later.  My understanding is that Michigan has made a bit of a comeback in the past 10 years or so, but it's slow going.  Everyone has heard about the tap water in Flint.  Parts of Detroit are like a ghost town, entire blocks with maybe one or two houses occupied, the rest empty or burned.  Grand Rapids... well fuck Grand Rapids.  I never liked that town.  They're actually moving backwards there.  Marriage equality, racial profiling, super super conservative assholes in charge.

Lansing is doing a little better, being the state capitol and one of the centers of commerce, but Lansing was built by Oldsmobile, which is one of the brands which GM eliminated when they downsized (the other was Pontiac).  I used to love driving past the Oldsmobile plants on the way out to the mall when I was a kid.  If we were lucky, I'd see trains moving into or out of the buildings, moving stuff.  I thought that was so cool.  Those areas are now huge, empty fields.  Some areas still visibly paved, but with weeds and plants growing up through the pavement.  The huge office building with OLDSMOBILE on it was still standing last I knew, but it was empty.  I've heard that the schools have all gone to shit.  There's no money.  It's my home town, and I love it, but I'm glad I got out when I did.

I can't imagine ever leaving here and then coming back to see Staten Island going downhill. It would be heartbreaking. Being part of NYC I doubt it will ever happen, but still.

Offline Orbert

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #663 on: October 12, 2016, 01:49:36 PM »
Quote
What are your favorite 3 books?

The Godfather by Mario Puzo, Dune by Frank Herbert, and Foundation by Isaac Asimov.

Many people focus on the crime and violence in The Godfather, but at its core, it is the portrait of a man doing whatever he must to provide for his family.  An immigrant in early 20th Century NYC was a second-class citizen.  Their rights were not protected by the system, therefore another, internal system evolved.  This is the source of the omerta, the code of silence.  Don't call the cops, it will only make things worse.  We deal with things ourselves.  Don Vito Corleone was, within his world, an impeccably moral, dedicated, and passionate man.  He is literally one of my role models.  His strategy was brilliant.  He did favors for people whenever he could.  He shared the wealth.  Later, if/when these people went on to become successful and more powerful, they remembered him and the kindness he showed them.  This is how he ended up with Senators and CEOs in his pocket.  They remembered the favors he did for them back when they were starting out, and would do anything for him in return.

Dune of course is a Science Fiction classic.  A study of culture and religion and what it might become after thousands of years of evolution.  A commodity which is both the de facto currency in the big leagues and one which bestows superhuman abilties.  And also the story of a man and his rise to power.

Foundation is similar, and likely one of Herbert's influences.  Again, I'm drawn to the depiction of what humankind could become in the next several millenia, after there are so many data points that our own lives and tendencies become as predictable as those of bacteria in a petri dish.  Science Fiction draws me because of the infinite "what if...?" scenarios.

Quote
What are your favorite 3 movies?

The Godfather again.  An excellent adaption of a brilliant novel.  Alien and Aliens because of their depiction of the future, presented realistically.  Advanced technology, we've colonized countless worlds, but people are still people, and there are other things out there.  The Fifth Element for the same reasons, oddly enough.

Quote
What are your favorite 3 NON-70's based Prog bands?  Marillion? Spocks Beard? Haken? etc?

Ooh, good question.  Spock's Beard is definitely up there.  Does Transatlantic count?  What about Enchant?  Sometimes it seems like the same guys just get together in different combinations and form bands.  Illuvatar is cool.  I do like Marillion, but I tend to put them on and let them play as background music.  Great stuff, but I can't say I'm really familiar with them, which is a shame.

I'm mostly stuck in the 70's when it comes to Prog.

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Re: The Ask Orbert Thread
« Reply #664 on: October 12, 2016, 02:11:17 PM »
Thoughts on Chinese food in America?
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