Author Topic: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Cable's NES Nostalgia 15 & 2 (starts pg32)  (Read 83724 times)

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Offline Crow

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #980 on: June 30, 2017, 10:58:26 AM »
Rock Band 2 was probably the best of the rock band games but I dunno I always preferred the guitar hero games
Better engine, usually better setlist too (GH5 can screw off though, wasted maybe the best presentation in the entire series on a garbage setlist with like 10 songs worth playing)

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #981 on: June 30, 2017, 06:54:14 PM »
I played a ton of Rock band. The game was a blast in my college years.

Offline Mr. Beale

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #982 on: June 30, 2017, 07:14:54 PM »
I played a ton of Rock band. The game was a blast in my college years.

Yeah that was a prime college game for me too.

Offline Mr. Beale

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #983 on: July 03, 2017, 09:39:21 AM »
7. Valkyrie Profile



Valkyrie Profile is a classic rpg that like a fair number that didn’t have Mario or Final Fantasy in the title, did not have the highest profile when released, but word of its quality spread in the years afterward and is a highly sought title by physical collectors. VP has one of the more interesting premises you’ll find in an rpg. VP setting is a take on Norse mythology, and Ragnarok is about to begin. You play as Lenneth, a battle maiden Valkyrie that has been recently awoken. You have been tasked to search the human realm of Midgard for souls worthy of being selected as Einharjar, warriors privileged to join the fight on behalf of the Aesirians when the battle of the gods take place. The majority of the story is told in little vignettes about the circumstances that led to the death of these soldiers you recruit (yeah not the happiest game). The rest of your time is spent going through dungeons to strengthen your Einharjar by finding equipment for them and leveling them up. Not only are they gaining typical generally levels and unlocking new abilities, with experience you can boost individual personality traits like bravery or selflessness, and try to minimize bad personality traits like short-tempered or pettiness. There’s a lot of menus to sift through but there a satisfying crunchiness to it all. You are doing these things because the game is broken into segments, and by the end of each period will have wanted some Einharjar sent to Valhalla. Send quality recruits and you are rewarded, disregard these quotas and Odin will be displeased, to the point of ending the game if you are negligent enough. Because you are getting new recruits throughout the game, as well as shedding some, the game has a very unique cadence compared to most rpgs.



As the second tri-Ace game on this list, it kind of goes without saying that VP has a pretty unique battle system. In your four-character party everyone is assigned to one face button. Depending on the weapon equipped, characters will have up to three attacks per turn (you can assign which attacks and what order beforehand). While your side and the enemies do take turns attacking in shifts, when it your turn you can use your pool of attacks in any order. Because the attacks have different properties, your often experimenting with timing to find the best combos, because if you inflict a bunch of damage rapidly a meter will fill up. Get the gauge to 100 will allow you to do a special over the top attack for big damage. Also encouraging this is the fact that overkilling enemies will give you significant bonus items or extra xp. That last bit can make battles a bit repetitive depending on how much you go after those boneses, but the core idea of these real-time inputs inside of what is ostensibly a turn-based battle system never gets old.



Besides the cool battle system and stat crunching though, VP is just a really cool game for its presentation and atmosphere. There’s something about the anime take on Norse mythology that lends itself to a really cool aesthetic. This isn’t a game with silly anime hijinks though; because you play as a Valkyrie recruiting the souls of the dead it’s pretty somber and or even morose in tone. I love the 2D art, and the music really helps set the tone too. Beyond that, it’s just such a weird and interesting game. In a genre full of tired conventions VP has a ton of interesting ideas not many games have explored before or since. The worst about it is the fact that getting the best ending, while hinted at in some thematic ways, is beyond opaque and virtually impossible to trigger without a guide.

Thanks to a low-print run, copies of the original PlayStation release are hard to come by, but PSP port with new CGI cutscenes has made it somewhat easier to find. I do wish Square would put it up for digital release though, more people need to play this.

Any other entries worth playing?

Turns out setting a game about the end of the world is hard to make a sequel out of! VP has had two sequels (technically prequels) however. Valkyrie Profile 2: Silmeria is a prequel to the first game and features Silmeria, another Valkyrie and sister to Lenneth. It isn’t as compelling for a story standpoint but takes the battle system of the first game and fleshes it out into 3D: it’s pretty complex but pretty interesting. Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume is a tactical strategy-rpg on the Nintendo DS. It isn’t great (turns out wildly fluctuating difficulty doesn't lend itself to fun!) and the plot itself isn’t anything special but man to I love returning to that universe. It’s just a really cool setting, and Lenneth is just a cool character.

Offline Mr. Beale

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #984 on: July 03, 2017, 12:49:55 PM »
6. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time



Ocarina of Time was the first Zelda game I played and oh man did it spark a love affair with the series. I did not get many video games as gifts as a kid, but Ocarina was one of the few exceptions, probably due to a superlative-filled Time magazine review. :lol I hadn’t had a N64 that long and the only game device I owned before that was my Gameboy, so playing headliner single-player experiences right when they were current was new to me. And my god was it a showpiece. The graphics were so lush for its time, the soundtrack was amazing (including the brilliant way it’s woven into the gameplay), and the atmosphere is just so evocative it was mesmerizing. I won’t go into detail about how it plays (I’m sure most of you are familiar) but solving puzzles was super satisfying and its status as a masterpiece is well earned. Even though in hindsight I should have gotten a PlayStation instead of an N64 due to how my tastes were developing, there was no deny that Ocarina was a sight to behold.



I would like to highlight some particular things that stand out to me about Ocarina. The first is the worldbuilding. Much more than any previous Nintendo game I had play, Ocarina feels like it takes place in a world that has history, that existed before you start a new game file. Between the woodlands inhabited by the Kokiri, to the tribal Gorons, to the all-female desert dwelling Gerudos, the world just comes alive and feel much more than some obstacles in a video game. Instead these different peoples have inhabited these lands for many generations, and have their own cultures. It takes the world seriously. Which also plays into how grounded the game feels. Compared to your Mario and Kirby games, these weren’t cartoon characters. Link’s abilities were pretty tame, he didn’t have unrealistically large jumps, he’s just a guy with a sword and shield. Even down to the color palette the game has: while colorful, employs more muted browns and shades of green than the usual bright primary colors associated with Nintendo, giving it a more realistic and grounded feel, even if it is a fantasy setting.



It’s also fairly dark in tone. Not completely of course, this is a Nintendo game after all, but things like the zombie-like Redeads are genuinely kind of scary. You visit bloodstained rooms of what were once torture chambers. Bits of what looks like blood spark off enemies when you hit them, and Ganondorf pukes blood in the final showdown (red blood at that in the first versions thank you very much!). Seeing Hyrule in ruins is upsetting and genuinely bleak. It really felt like something a little different, with an aim at a somewhat older audience than the Marios I had played as a kid. As good as Mario could be, he just can’t be cool the way Final Fantasy VII was cool. Ocarina of Time however totally was to 12-year-old me.



All of that really supported how emotionally involved I got with the story. That does sound weird because Nintendo is not exactly well known for complex writing, and while it is true that Ocarina has a simple plot, I was still very emotionally invested in the journey. The way relationships with people in Link’s childhood has payoff in the future world is really clever, and man is that somewhat bittersweet ending just perfect. Add in a cool villain like Ganondorf and all of the smartly designed dungeons, it just very fulfilling adventure. It is unsurprisingly that the series has lived under its shadow for so long since.


Any other entries worth playing?

It was very hard to decide between Ocarina and Link’s Awakening. I ended up giving the nod to Ocarina for nostalgia and just the fact it’s hard to overstate how much that game rocked my world when I first played it. But Link’s Awakening is probably the Zelda title I’m more likely to replay nowadays, and it might be the best distillation of the series in my opinion. It’s got great sprite art, GREAT dungeon designs, and maybe the most poignant story in the entire series, which for a game that debuted on the fricken Gameboy that’s really impressive. I also love the Oracle duology, which is based on Link’s Awakening engine. Oracle of Seasons I especially dig thanks to its season-changing gimmick which really opens up overworld exploration, and because it just looks really colorful for a Gameboy Color title.

My interest in the series has declined over the years unfortunately, in part because I burned-out on the familiar item-driven puzzle solving formula, and in part because it became more and more clear over time that Nintendo really doesn’t care about story or continuity as much I originally did. That sounds obvious now but there is a reason the Zelda timeline has generated a lot more interest and speculation than the Mario timeline: it did matter, to certain games at least. But Nintendo has always been pretty hand-wavy about that stuff, especially as more and more entries have been produced. The series did finally turned the corner with Breath of the Wild, which is the reinvention that the series has long needed. I’m not enraptured by it, and it definitely has more flaws than the perfect scores would lead you to believe (especially in the story department), but the positives outweigh the negatives.

Offline Crow

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #985 on: July 03, 2017, 01:02:39 PM »
I've never played the Valkyrie Profile games but I did back a game using a very similar combat mechanism a while back - dunno if you've ever heard about it, it's called Indivisible: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/indivisible-rpg-from-the-creators-of-skullgirls#/

Offline Mr. Beale

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #986 on: July 03, 2017, 01:28:17 PM »
I've never played the Valkyrie Profile games but I did back a game using a very similar combat mechanism a while back - dunno if you've ever heard about it, it's called Indivisible: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/indivisible-rpg-from-the-creators-of-skullgirls#/
I have heard of it, and yes it's interesting how much they are taking from Valkyrie Profile.

Offline Mr. Beale

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #987 on: July 05, 2017, 12:37:56 PM »
5. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim



You might have noticed there haven’t been a lot of open world games on this list. I was never super interested in them when GTA III showed up. Yeah they were fun to screw around in for a short time, but that didn’t last all that long for me, and putting up with the mediocre individual elements seemed too big of a sacrifice for the scale. I’ve occasionally tried to get into others since then (including Oblivion) but with the exception of Assassin’s Creed II they never seemed to stick. I was intrigued by Skyrim's first phenomenal trailer though and hoped against hope that this could be the first really open sandbox game I could get into. And by god, Skyrim is one of the few games to have a massive amount of hype behind it, and still have my expectations blown away. There was a reason this game seemed to take over the internet for the better part of a year after it came out.

The best thing about Skyrim is the titular land itself. Unlike the fairly generic setting in Oblivion, Skyrim is all about invoking a Scandinavian feel. Maybe it’s because I have some Swedish heritage, but I’m totally into that, and that twists breathes fresh air into a fantasy setting. Never have I been as immersed in a video game environment the way I am in Skyrim. You’re never too far from an interesting landmark or quest point, but there’s enough room in-between them that it doesn’t feel overly videogame-y. There’s a good amount of space just for the effect of feeling like an actual place. And what an interesting land it is. The advantage of being part of a big series like the Elder Scrolls is that it’s content limit itself in types of environments--there’s no need to throw in a desert area and volcanic area like in a lot of video games. While there's still is plenty of variety within Skyrim, it is content to just be a cold climate setting. That doesn’t mean that all of it is covered in snow, but a good chunk of it is. I love that. Again, it makes the setting feel more real. And then there’s just the fact how pretty Skyrim looks. I would often stop just to take in the great weather effects or a view from mountain top while listening to Jeremy Soule’s wonderful score.



Another advantage of the scale is all of the history in the background, as well as all of the established lore taken from the previous games. Every place has a history and story to tell, from the old grimy city of Windhelm, to Solitude and its history of troubled rulers, to the corrupted Markarth, even the ugly sides of Skyrim make me love it in some way. It's all about personality.

And then there’s the gameplay itself. The hook of sandbox games of course is the freedom go anywhere you want and do whatever you want. There’s a lot of quests to do and places to explore, and while the writing isn’t outstanding, it tends to be good enough to want to keep doing them, learning about the inhabitants of Skyrim. And occasionally there’s a more involved one that really stands out (like the Daedric quests). While nobody is going to give any awards for Skyrim’s combat, it improved enough from Oblivion that it was no longer a hindrance. Some might gripe how overpowered you quickly become or how there’s little actually role-playing going on for a western rpg, but those are nonfactors to me. The most important character isn’t my avatar but the land of Skyrim itself, and I’ll always have affection for her.





Any other entries worth playing?

Morrowind is still the crown jewel for some Elder Scrolls fans, and Oblivion has its supporters. You'll probably will need a battery of mods to make them playable in 2017 though.

Offline Mr. Beale

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #988 on: July 05, 2017, 12:56:35 PM »
4. Final Fantasy VI



Final Fantasy VI is the kind of masterpiece that only appears when a highly skilled group of creative people are firing on all cylinders. It is neither the first or last classic rpg to the series’ credit. But even among giants Final Fantasy VI stands out for just how timeless and pitch perfect everything is. From the opening credits’ incredibly cinematic visuals, the game carries itself with such confidence: it knows what it’s doing, and it’s pretty sure you’re going to enjoy the ride. And it is a great ride. It actually starts with fairly standard plot points (evil empire, rebels, amnesiac protagonist) but tells its story with such plum that you don’t even notice how familiar some of it is. This is partly due to how strong the characters are. Final Fantasy VI is a bit unconventional in that instead of having a clear protagonist the story revolves around, it takes an ensemble approach giving many characters close of equal screen time. While Terra is technically the main protagonist as her story mostly closely ties with the overall plot, you get to know characters like Edgar, Sabin, Celes, and Locke just as much. And considering how big your party gets, the fact that most of them get significant character development is pretty impressive. If I made a top 10 Final Fantasy characters I’m sure it would be dominated by representatives of VI. Not to mention Kefka who leaves quite an impression. Nihilist villains aren’t anything new, especially in Japanese rpgs, but you’d be hard pressed to find a better embodiment than the clown. Kefka actually starts out as almost a likeable goofball, but gets, uh, pretty real as the game goes on.



Final Fantasy has always leaned on having strong presentation, and VI is certainly no exception. Released relatively late in the SNES lifecycle, few games look as handsome as FFVI, and of those you will not find one with a better soundtrack. How Uematsu-san was able to coax such grand and orchestral sounding melodies out that SNES sound chip is still a marvel.



The one knock against it might be the battle system, which is a little bland, even in a series that generally aren’t that involved. The character specific abilities are cool, but a lot of them aren’t particularly useful during the later stages of the game. Trying to maximize esper level up bonuses is more busywork than it’s worth too. It’s still solid, but it gets a little too repetitive at point.
Still, it all comes back to those characters, the story, and the wonderful presentation. In a series full of gems VI still reigns as the crown jewel.


Any other entries worth playing?

Final Fantasy and the next entry is the main reasons I went with a “one entry per series” rule. There would have been too many games to cover because FF was a huge series for me. But here a truncated rundown of the other great FFs imo:

Final Fantasy VII- the other BIG one. Yes, it was the first rpg I was exposed to (well, the first one I ever payed attention to anyway). Everything from the character design to the world to the flashy battles was just mesmerizing when it came out. In my little world games were just fun things to play with, but Final Fantasy VII said that they could be so much more: they could be emotional journeys with substantive themes, and have music on par with film scores. Yes it does get a lot of love simply because it was a lot of people’s introduction to the rpg world, and yes it hasn’t aged well in some respects, but still think there’s are few games with the fearlessness and moxie VII has.

Final Fantasy IX- A wonderfully warm-hearted culmination of the PS1 era for Square. Great art design, a great world to visit, some rather funny and charming characters, and the best collection of side quests and minigames in the series. If the plot was less derivative of previous games (it began as a tribute game to the series but was eventually converted to a main entry) and had more of the cast gotten more character development it would probably be my favorite.

Final Fantasy VIII- A divisive game in the series, and not without reason. The plot is pretty nonsensical at points, most of the characters are flat, the translation isn’t great, and the experimental approach to rpg conventions, while well intentioned, don’t work out great a lot of the time. Nonetheless, it’s still a lot of fun just for the spectacle, with a lot of fun scenarios, a neat techno-fantasy world, the summons were never cooler, and it has the best soundtrack in the series, and for a series that has a legacy of consistently great music that’s saying something.

Final Fantasy V- Often overlooked because it wasn’t initially released to western audiences during the SNES era, it still has probably the best battle system in the series due to how flexible its job system is. No it isn’t as serious or narrative driven as its SNES brothers, but it actually still a pretty epic romp for the era across multiple worlds. Underrated soundtrack too.

Basically anything released in the 90s is worth playing (yes I’m lumping IX in with them), and I even like the NES games too (especially III).

« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 03:50:52 PM by Mr. Beale »

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #989 on: July 05, 2017, 03:45:58 PM »
1. Ocarina- probably my favorite zelda, although Breath of the wild is pretty incredible and is giving it quite a run for its money.

2. Skyrim- played the shit out of it, but it definitely my least favorite of the modern day elder scrolls. My heart belongs to Morrowind. The beautiful music, the bizarre and eccentric landscapes, huge dialogue trees and options. The list goes on. Personally, I don't even enjoy skyrim all the much and I think it mostly comes down to the setting. I am not really down with the desolate tundra of the North. I like to see lush forests and flowers and giant mushrooms and stuff. The core mechanics are very streamlined, which is nice. but the over streamlining of the game itself leaves a lot to be desired from someone who obsessed over morrowind. Now all that being said, I am going to rebuy it for the switch, because the switch barely has any god damn games and I love the conveniance factor of being able to play skyrim where ever I want.

rant over

3. Final fantasy VI  :hefdaddy      This is so damn close to being my favorite FF, but VII just barely beats it out. I absolutely adore this game. It is just fantastic

VII is my favorite game ever made

VIII is a game I theroughly enjoyed and pretty much love. Goes way off the rails like disk 3 and onward, but what evs I guess.

IX- just too different than VII and VIII and I just couldn't get into it. I played it up until disk 3 but honestly didn't enjoy it and stopped.

XV- I had a blast playing it
« Last Edit: July 05, 2017, 05:02:59 PM by Phoenix87x »

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #990 on: July 06, 2017, 05:14:52 AM »
Skyrim was one of the two games that really got me back into gaming. My little brother called me up one day and told me I need to come over and check this game out so I it looked amazing. I ran home, ordered the game and ordered a video card so I could run it. What a journey that game was.

I've heard so many good things about FFVI. I haven't played any of the FF games but I did see that they have FFVI on iOS so I may have buy it.

Offline Mr. Beale

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #991 on: July 06, 2017, 12:25:14 PM »

I've heard so many good things about FFVI. I haven't played any of the FF games but I did see that they have FFVI on iOS so I may have buy it.




That... uh... verison is pretty notorious for badly redone sprite art. I'd recommend against supporting that nonsense. FF VI doesn't really have a clear definitive version but the original SNES version holds up pretty well.

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #992 on: July 06, 2017, 12:45:05 PM »
Re: Ocarina. This is on the short list of "Mind = Blown" experiences I have had with video games. I've played every Zelda game except Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, and BotW, and for a long time OoT was #1 on my Zelda list, based on that initial playthrough I found so memorable for all the reasons you described. I played in again through the Master Quest, and while I enjoyed that, the dropoff from first to second playthrough was significant. So much so it isn't even my favorite Zelda game anymore. Still, a top-notch release at the time
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline Mr. Beale

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #993 on: July 06, 2017, 01:55:06 PM »
Ocarina was my #1 with a bullet for a long time, but it's slipped a bit since my love for the series has faded. And it's just a game I may have played more times like I should have, like watching a favorite movie too many times.

Offline Mr. Beale

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #994 on: July 06, 2017, 02:35:52 PM »
We're getting down there! These top three are my god-tier games and all have jostled as being number one at times.



3. Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater



I wasn’t excited when I first heard early details about MGS3. A prequel? Set in the 60s? Why? Isn’t half of the appeal of Metal Gear the crazy future military tech stuff? I didn’t see the point. Turns out I was completely wrong because not only does dialing back the tech stuff end up benefitting the game, it ended up being my favorite Metal Gear game by a good margin.

Metal Gear is of course a popular series of stealth-action games that made Hideo Kojima a household name. Sneaking around and taking care of enemies unseen always appealed to me more than the more "common fight everyone you see" approach, and Metal Gear tends to give you a lot of different tools to mess around with, as well as a good variety of difficulty options to choose how punishing you want getting caught to be. The first two games appeared on the MSX2 computer system (a modified port of the first later came to the NES), but it was the cinematic restart on the PlayStation with Metal Gear Solid that really propelled the series into the spotlight.



MGS3 in particular takes place in Russia in the early 1960s and centers on the original Snake who would become Big Boss. While he was a straightforward villain in the previous games he appeared, in Snake Eater he is portrayed in a much more sympathetic light. It’s a pretty big retcon, but it’s worth it because not only does it paint the rest of the series in a different light, Big Boss himself turns out to be a more interesting character than the Solid Snake most of the rest of the series stars. How he could have become the villainous Big Boss people knew from the lore adds a good help of intrigue to the story, and the answer muddies previous assumptions about the larger lore. And while it still has that Metal Gear wackiness of bizarre comic book characters mixed in with serious military intrigue plots, Snake Eater has a much cleaner emotional through line and plot than most MGS games (2 in particular was kind of all over the place), which gives it more emotional punch at when it’s at its best.



One of the biggest change it brings to the series is an emphasis on larger wilderness areas. While previous games mostly kept to buildings and corridors, in Snake Eater there were many more large wilderness environments. There was also a stamina meter to manage which you had replenish by eating things, including, as the subtitle implies, the local wildlife. There was also camouflage to manage and switch depending on your surroundings. There was also first aid management to take care of wounds. It’s a lot more micro management stuff, and while not everyone enjoyed it I thought they were all good editions, even if being able to pause mid firefight to clean and bandage a bullet wound is kinda silly. But perhaps the biggest thing is the third-person camera that was added in the Subsistence update and every rerelease the game has had since. It makes the whole thing feel much different than the top down view you often had in the previous games. Frankly I can’t imagine playing Snake Eater without it.



If there’s one thing the game does well though it’s the boss fights. Metal Gear has a history of making memorable bosses, but MGS3 is the high water mark in terms of variety and cleverly designed fights. It has easily the best collection of boss fights in any game I've played, with The End and The Boss both would appear on my personal Best of All-Time short list. The battle against The End is a sniper shootout, in which you must outwit the enemy by using all sorts of means to track and sneak up on your opponent. As for the climatic fight against The Boss, let’s just say it feels like a culmination of all of the previous fights you’ve been through, and thematically it carries a lot of weight.



I haven’t mentioned the set pieces yet beyond the boss fight, but there’s a few really riveting sequences too. At times it feels like playing one of the best action movies ever. Add in the aforementioned great boss fights, a great soundtrack, and a really good story, and you have one of the greats.



Any other entries worth playing?

Like I said earlier, this and Final Fantasy are the main reasons for the one entry per series rule. Metal Gear games probably rank number 1 for me in terms of being consistently entertaining and satisfying. Even the weaker ones (like Portable Ops) are still pretty good, and the best (Snake Eater) are masterpieces or close to. Still, MGS 1-4 are the core of the series, although Peace Walker is also really good. I haven’t played MGS V yet because: a) the mix reception and negative cloud around its circumstances bummed me out, and b) 4 wrapped the MGS storyline well enough I don’t feel a need for more.

« Last Edit: July 07, 2017, 08:38:35 AM by Mr. Beale »

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #995 on: July 06, 2017, 04:21:35 PM »
Snake eater is really fantastic. The sniper fight with The End is probably my favorite boss experience in all of videogames. MGS part 1 will always be my favorite, but snake eater is pretty damn good in its own right.

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #996 on: July 06, 2017, 05:47:21 PM »

I've heard so many good things about FFVI. I haven't played any of the FF games but I did see that they have FFVI on iOS so I may have buy it.




That... uh... verison is pretty notorious for badly redone sprite art. I'd recommend against supporting that nonsense. FF VI doesn't really have a clear definitive version but the original SNES version holds up pretty well.

That sucks to hear, I'd love to play it during my breaks at work. I'll have to set up an emulator for it then.

I've only played metal gear 1 and 4 but I've heard such good things about 3 that I want to go back and play it

Offline OpenYourEyes311

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #997 on: July 07, 2017, 10:33:55 AM »
I love any FF talk, and you're right, FFVI is probably the best entry. Also, you say the '90s were the best, I'm really a fan of all the different eras of FFs. The NES era has two great entries along maybe the worst in the franchise (II), the SNES era may be the strongest (although I was not a HUGE fan of IV), and PS1 era is VERY strong, obviously. But you left out some of my favorite entries with the more recent games: X is very cool and has a different battle system that I enjoy (reminds me of Mega Man X Command Mission - not sure which came first); XII I haven't played a lot of, but I look forward to checking out the HD Remaster next week; XIII is very divisive, but easily my favorite entry in the series... the battles are so fast-paced, and the characters were so cool (except maybe Hope haha); XIV was a cool MMO (my first one) that I thought if it wasn't for the monthly payments, I'd have play so much longer than I did; and XV brought me what I wanted from XIV, the feel of an MMO, but with a single player campaign... it has climbed up the charts and is easily top 5 FF in my book.

and obviously I must rank them now (minus XI and XII)

XIII
VI
V
XV
VIII
XIV
IX
I
X
III
VII
IV
II

Loving the list! Zelda is another series I could go on about, but I won't for now haha.
I don't want MP playing with DT unless they were making a drummer change. If they let MM go and bring back MP, then fine, but no guest appearance please.
WELP.

Offline Mr. Beale

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #998 on: July 08, 2017, 10:24:04 AM »
^ My other FF takes

FF II- I actually like it. Yes the leveling mechanics are bad, although in the later remakes they are tweaked enough to be somewhat less annoying. I like it because it's weirdly dark and heavy for a FF game, and impressively atmospheric for a NES game

FF IV- I've given it many tries but it hasn't aged well in my opinion. The story is awfully cliche nowadays and it's overly linear in structure and character progression.

FF X- Can't stand most of the characters, dumb story and world building, most of the soundtrack was weak by FF standards, suffocatingly linear and most of the sidequests are terrible. It has its fans but I thought it was a massive drop from the PS1 games.

FF XII- Well intentioned correction from X but story is awfully dry and terribly paced. Kind of split on the gameplay being so automated. Decent game but feels like a missed opportunity.

XIII- Very flawed but I do like the battle system for the most part

XIV sounds pretty cool but I have a hard time imagining being will to commit to a subsciption mmo. Haven't had a desire to try XV. The action-rpg original pitch never interested me much and it just looks messy in a way I'm tired of seeing in the series.

Offline Mr. Beale

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #999 on: July 08, 2017, 11:07:23 AM »
Time for the feels: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk10HftxJm8


2. Persona 4 Golden



Persona is a series I was aware of for a while but never felt the urge to check out. Despite hearing lots of praise for Persona 3 and 4 (like “best jrpg of all time” praise), it never seemed particularly interesting. It’s like a dating sim or something? The high school setting sounds boring, and there’s like occult stuff or something? Didn’t seem my style. Obviously, I eventually gave them a shot—and I was bowled over, all of the things I was worried about turned out to be strengths, and I had never played anything like it. It was GREAT.



The setup of Persona 4 is that you play as a silent protagonist whose parents have gone overseas for a year. In their absence you have been sent to live with an uncle and his young daughter in the rural town of Inaba, Japan (and yes, the Persona games are very specifically about being set in modern Japan). Mostly the stranger in a new place premise is there to explain why your starting with a blank slate with everyone. About the same time as the game begins you begin to visit Igor in the dream world-like Velvet Room (one of the few things that tie all of the Persona games together), as well as a series of strange murders start to occur in the sleepy town. On top of that, there’s also rumor going around the school about a strange tv channel that appears on rainy nights. You soon find out not only is there some truth to the urban myth, but it seems connected to the murders somehow. It’s up to you and your growing circle of friends to figure how all of these things are connected and apprehend the culprit.



Doing so will involve awakening to your Persona powers. Personas are the funky looking companions characters summon from their inner psyche and are the main means of dealing with the fantastical enemies you face. Persona has always been rooted in Jungian psychological concepts, hence the name, but Persona 4 takes it one step further with it theme of facing oneself. Over the course of the game you’ll enter alternate realities in the TV world that reflect people’s subconscious, and come across a character’s Shadow, the often less nice sides of their personality they keep hidden, even from themselves. There’s a lot of themes of being honest with oneself and being true to oneself in the face of social pressure. If that sounds like an after-school special, well…yeah it sort is, but it’s very relatable and stirs up a lot of empathy for these characters. It’s very real and tangible in ways rpgs rarely are, because everyone has those sorts of inner conflicts, maybe especially during high school years. I also how sexual these sections have. Yes, there are episodes that touch on LGBT stuff explicitly, but even the ones that aren’t directly about sex still have sexual undercurrents. Which makes thematic sense considering what a Shadow is. The way the game conveys these characters that sexual beings but not yet comfortable about is really nuanced and respectful in ways you just don’t see in other video games, or even in other visual media much really.

Pretty much all the characters you meet are likeable, and even characters like Teddie, who could easily have been just obnoxious if handled incorrectly, I ended up being very charmed with by the end of the game. And even the less interesting party members still play off the group dynamics well. You really feel like a close circle of friends by the end, in part because the game is so long the evolution feels natural. The good writing is only enhanced by the strong localization, which is strong enough to merit a shout out for how sharp and on point it is. It’s also helped by the excellent voice acting the game has, which has to be one of the strong ensembles I’ve experienced in gaming. They really sell both the heavier stuff and the more humorous moments well.



Roughly half of the time in Persona 4 you’ll be spending in mostly randomly generated dungeons, fighting a lot of monsters and climbing your way to the top floor. Persona shares a similar battle system to the Shin Megami Tensei series in that if you hit an enemy weakness you can knock it down and you’ll get extra turn to do more damage. Knock all of the enemies down and the party can do a big All-Out attack, which will finish off weaker enemies. It’s a solid system, but is less remarkable than what your doing outside of dungeon areas. The second and more unique half part of the game is the social sim part. Basically you will go to school and do normal things after school, like hang out with a friend, practice with a sports club, or do a part time job, or whatever you want to focus on. That not might sound terribly interesting, but in way doing mundane life stuff like studying for a test is weirdly compelling just because you don’t do stuff like this in most games. Social Links are essentially your relationships with other characters you literally level up by spending time with, and are the hallmark of the modern persona games. Every social link has a story to tell and making certain dialogue choices will determine how quickly your social link progresses. They aren’t all hits but they add a lot of personality to a game that is already stuffed with personality.



The way it’s presented in little tidbits makes you want to keeping going a do a little bit more. The other reason it’s compelling is that this stuff actually has benefits to the rpg side, liking boosting a persona’s strength or extra follow-up attacks. The way it’s all enmeshed create a very satisfying gameplay loop, and whenever you’re feeling tired of the rpg or social stuff, you can go do the other. There is also a time management aspect to all of this, so you are often trying to figure out what’s the best course of action that will get you the max benefits. Study to level up your academic skills for an upcoming test? Work a job for some money and social stat benefits? Concentrate spending time with one friend, or spread out time with different social links? There are optimal runs in choosing what when, but you should worry about it too much in your first playthrough, since anything you do will benefit you anyway, it’s just a matter of what and who you want to prioritize.



Another asset Persona 4 has is just how stylish the presentation is. Though you can tell Atlus wasn’t working with the biggest budget (the character models are pretty low poly for a late PS2 game) the game makes up for it with strong art direction, be it the large character portraits which actually conveys characters emotions, the strong character designs themselves, how weird some of the enemy designs are, or just the strong use of yellow in the menus as a visual motif. It’s just full of confidence in its vision. And you can’t talk about Persona without mentioning how much presence the music lends. I know I say this about pretty much all the games higher on this list, but Shogi Meguro’s soundtrack is really exceptional here, and adds an immeasurable amount to the game’s contemporary feel. Instead of the sweeping orchestral stuff games like Final Fantasy strive for, Persona 4 has a mix of rock and pop soundscape with a unique emphasis on tracks with vocals. Most of the vocal tracks have English (re: Engrish) lyrics, and while they aren’t good objectively speaking, but I still love it unironically. It’s just part of the game’s charm. And don’t sleep on the more straight ahead rocking battle themes, some of which are pretty killer. The best thing might be how cohesive everything is. I love it when composers take a melody and rearrange and repurpose it to add new meaning, and Meguro might be as good at that as any composer I’ve listened to. Especially in Persona 4 where certain melodies might be used in as many as half dozen tracks, each appearance better than the last. By the time the game crescendos it’s blissful. That track I posted at the beginning? It’s nice track when you first hear it at the beginning of the game, but by the end it has a lot more meaningful connotations. It’s warm and wistful qualities are pitch perfect and brings up plenty of memories.



What Persona 4 comes down to though is all of the little details it has, be it the specifically Japanese things it touches on or just the more general slice of life. Golden Week? Time for Children’s Day presents! Weather getting cold? Time to bring out the kotatsu! Let’s all get motorcycle licenses so we can go to the beach on our mopeds before the end of summer break! But there’s also stuff like how you slow start to realize at the early hours of the game that your uncle has a pretty dysfunctional family situation. The plot is interesting enough, but it’s the little moments in between the story beats that really makes the world come alive. And as someone who’s spent most of my life in rural areas, I appreciate the small town setting. It’s a little idyllic, but it does feel small and it IS boring, but by the end of the game you appreciate it for that like most of the inhabitants do.



Not only is Persona 4 a thematically resonant game, but it’s a uniquely warm game, unabashedly so, to the point it’s sometimes portrayed as the light Scooby-Doo entry in the series. That is most certainly NOT true as it touches on some substantive and real stuff, but it is true that the game aims to warm the hearts of players, and for a game whose plot revolves around a murder mystery has a lot of cheery and feel-good vibes for significant stretches of the game. That just makes the game that much more unique and special. There’s more than one reason why the enhanced Vita version uses the word Golden. The Vita version is the best one to play by the way. I’m sure the vanilla version is still great, but Golden adds a couple more social links which really tie the whole plot together better, as well a as significant amount of new content, including some standout music tracks, to flesh out the game’s connective tissue in ways that really push the game into masterpiece territory in my opinion.



It’s a long game with a large script, and while it might not be for everyone, it is a game I’d recommend to almost anyone regardless of their gaming background, because it’s unique enough and twists and subverts genre conventions enough that there’s really nothing like Persona. I’ve heard enough anecdotes of people that don’t play turn-based rpgs (even you COD and Madden bros) that fall down the Persona hole, just because it’s that different and well written. At the end of a lot of narrative-heavy, emotionally-involving pieces of media it’s common to feel bittersweet about the thing being over. Not Persona 4, at least for me. My attachment to the characters were so explored, and the game was so generous with its length, especially with the perfect credit sequence and the true Golden ending, that I got everything I could have possibly asked for, that there was nothing more I could expect from one game. It’s was a little sad to see the end, but there’s nothing bittersweet about it: it’s just sweet. Thinking about Persona 4’s ending just makes me smile and think of the good times of the journey. Now that’s a testament to it’s quality.

Any other entries worth playing?



All those positives I wrote about Persona 4? They also apply to Persona 3. I played 3 first and it BLEW MY MIND. From the eclectic soundtrack (has more hip-hop lean) to it’s intriguingly dark setting but with a lot of laugh out loud character moments, I had never would have guessed THIS is what these Persona games were all about. Compared to it’s more cohesive sequels Persona 3 has a more peanut butter and jelly approach in that it straddles between the dark and heavy atmosphere of traditional Shin Megami Tensei games (which the series is spun off from and are technically still related to though for most practical purposes can be thought of as completely separate things) and lighter humorous stuff. First time listening to the normal battle theme with the horn section and a Japanese man rapping in English I wasn’t sure what the heck to make of it. After playing a little more you start to realize how well it fits the tone of the game. The setup was interesting, but by the time I had experience “Junpei’s Believe It or Don’t” and Operation Babe Hunt I knew I was playing something special. The fact that Atlus was able to top it with 4 is still kind of hard to believe. I like 4 a little bit more because 3’s soundtrack doesn’t have as many standouts, it’s themes don’t resonant quite as much as 4, and its mechanics and quality of life stuff aren’t as good as 4’s, but I might like 3’s cast better, and it has arguably a better plot (if not as well paced). It’s still an incredible game in its own right, and probably the one I would suggest starting with if you’re accustomed to rpg but haven’t played Persona yet.

As for the hot new Persona 5 that finally came out this year: it’s really good, has a lot of excellent presentation qualities, the mechanics are better than ever, and it is its own thing while still being very much a Persona game like you would hope from a sequel. I like a fair bit, but I don’t love it: I didn’t get nearly as attached to the characters as in the previous games, I found the plot lacked any hook or propulsion most the of game, and the game’s themes didn’t do much for me. That isn’t to say I didn’t enjoy, and is a good starting point for someone dipping their toes into the series for the first time, it just seems strange that a game that obviously has as much effort in so many other areas seems a little undercooked on the script level.

Persona 1 and 2 are different beasts from 3 on. Persona 1 isn’t a particularly good game (in fact the original version had an awful localization job), even the PSP remake isn’t particularly great (although it does have a good soundtrack more in line with the modern games. Persona 2 actually is comprised of two games (long story) and while it does have its old-school fans for having maybe the best story in the series, it’s pretty tough to get into. I wouldn’t recommend them to anyone unless they have a high tolerance for old crusty rpgs.


EDIT: Bah, hate accidently hitting post when I'm still editing. :mehlin

Whew! As excellent as Persona 4 is though there is still one more game I give an edge to. Stay tuned!
« Last Edit: July 08, 2017, 11:34:45 AM by Mr. Beale »

Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #1000 on: July 08, 2017, 11:11:29 AM »
Oh Hell Yeah Persona 4  :metal :metal :metal

I absolutely love that games and it blew my mind when I played through it. Its so damn unique and there's nothing quite like it. I would definitely say I like it better than 5 as well. Although 5 is decent and fun as well.

Offline Crow

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #1001 on: July 08, 2017, 11:24:06 AM »
having recently played p5 i can say it probably has the better gameplay of the two (i just like the non-random dungeons a lot mostly) but p4 is stronger storywise, i never played golden so i dunno what all the extra stuff is (except i know there's an ending where you can side with the killer for some reason LOL) but. yeah, i'm sure it's even better than the original, which was already great  :corn

Offline Mr. Beale

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #1002 on: July 09, 2017, 08:09:01 PM »
Updated with all 50 games:

By Decade

80s- 1
90s- 16
00s- 19
10s- 14

Platforms (Going by original release)

NES- 1

SNES- 5
Sega CD- 1
PC Engine- 1
4th Gen Multiplatform (SNES/Genesis/Game Gear/Arcade)- 2

PlayStation- 5
N64- 2
5th Gen Multiplatform (N64/PlayStation/Other)- 1

PlayStation 2- 4
Gameboy Advance- 1
6th Gen Multiplatform (PS2/Gamecube/XBOX/Arcade)- 4

PlayStation 3- 7
PSP- 2
DS- 1
7th Gen Multiplat (PS3/XBOX360/Arcade/PC)- 9

PS Vita-1
8th Gen Multiplatform (PS4/XBOX ONE/Arcade/PC)-2

PC- 1

Genres

RPGs- 15
Fighting- 7
Platformer- 6
Strategy or Strategy/Tactical-RPGs- 4
Action-Adventure (including Stealth)- 4
Action (including SW: Rogue Squadron)- 4
Adventure- 3
Sports- 3
Racing- 2
Beat em up- 1
Music-rhythm- 1

« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 09:39:22 PM by Mr. Beale »

Offline Mr. Beale

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #1003 on: July 10, 2017, 08:10:44 AM »
Before I post my finally entry, here's a few more honorable mention and shout outs

Ice Hockey (NES)




Dragon's Crown




Orisheka: Tainted Bloodlines




Rayman Origins




Incredible Crisis




NASCAR Rumble



Offline OpenYourEyes311

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #1004 on: July 10, 2017, 10:10:33 AM »
^ My other FF takes

FF II- I actually like it. Yes the leveling mechanics are bad, although in the later remakes they are tweaked enough to be somewhat less annoying. I like it because it's weirdly dark and heavy for a FF game, and impressively atmospheric for a NES game

FF IV- I've given it many tries but it hasn't aged well in my opinion. The story is awfully cliche nowadays and it's overly linear in structure and character progression.

FF X- Can't stand most of the characters, dumb story and world building, most of the soundtrack was weak by FF standards, suffocatingly linear and most of the sidequests are terrible. It has its fans but I thought it was a massive drop from the PS1 games.

FF XII- Well intentioned correction from X but story is awfully dry and terribly paced. Kind of split on the gameplay being so automated. Decent game but feels like a missed opportunity.

XIII- Very flawed but I do like the battle system for the most part

XIV sounds pretty cool but I have a hard time imagining being will to commit to a subsciption mmo. Haven't had a desire to try XV. The action-rpg original pitch never interested me much and it just looks messy in a way I'm tired of seeing in the series.

I get and agree with most of what you're saying. What I will say about II, is that it IS a very charming game. The music is great (may be the best of the NES era), and the story and characters are really cool, too. What drags it down for me, obviously, is the leveling mechanics.

Also, if you've played all the other non-MMO games, you should give XV a chance. I really loved it, took me about 82 hours to platinum it and I've come back to it a few times to play more of it. It got a fun fighting mechanic (fast, like XIII, but much more action based, and not as convoluted)... and the camaraderie between the 4 main characters is worth the ride.

Also... love the Ice Hockey shout-out in your last post.
I don't want MP playing with DT unless they were making a drummer change. If they let MM go and bring back MP, then fine, but no guest appearance please.
WELP.

Offline Crow

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #1005 on: July 10, 2017, 10:18:24 AM »
Rayman Origins & Legends are friggin excellent

Offline Mr. Beale

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #1006 on: July 10, 2017, 09:38:04 PM »
1. Virtua Fighter 4: Evolution



I usually think of myself as someone who likes a compelling narrative, stuff with context and world building and characters to get emotionally attached to in my games. Which makes it ironic that favorite game is one that mostly dispenses with story outside of some character bios. If you want story in Virtua Fighter you’ll have to go read the manual. Virtua Fighter doesn’t make any pretentions about what it is: a deep, no nonsense fighting game with meticulous attention to detail, wrapped in a great package.



The first you’ll notice about Virtua Fighter is how grounded it is compared to other fighting games. Street Fighter gave us fireballs of course, and plenty of other games have tried to grab your attention by trying to be more over the top in some way compared to the competition. Virtua Fighter goes the other way: partly because of its legacy as the first 3D fighting game series, VF strives to be a realistic portrayal of actual martial art schools. Now it’s still within the Street Fighter framework, meaning there’s still health bars and stuff like launching opponents into a juggle and stuff, as well as treating things like pro wrestling as if it’s completely on par with actual martial arts, but those concessions aside feels quite authentic. Even if you don’t know your Judo from your Vale Tudo or Aikido, VF is actually a decent introduction to what the various martial arts schools are about. Of all the fighting games out there Virtua Fighter is the only that has made me take a real life interest in them.



VF can sell this because of how well-crafted the animation is. The way everything flows from one move to another is so buttery smooth, and more so than almost any other fighting game, every character has a distinct tempo and feel. The attention to detail, especially how they interact, is fantastic, pound for pound the best animation in the genre in my opinion, and the fact that things like every throw also has a unique escape animation is awesome. Being able to pull off a move that has your characters somersaulting off a wall, or a multipart throw is more satisfying than any fireball. Who needs hit sparks when the animation is so graceful? It also helps that Virtua Fighter games have always been graphical powerhouses upon their arcade release, featuring cutting edge detail of things like cloth textures and weight. It might not have the loudest presentation, but the no-nonsense focus on the martial arts gives the series a grounded aesthetic I really dig.



Like most fighting games, VF is built on a paper-rock-scissors base of block beat attack, throws beat blocks, attacks beat throws. And despite its considerable depth, Virtua Fighter (with the exception of VF3) only needs three buttons for inputs: punch, kick, and guard. That’s it. The thing is that almost every possible combination with your stick has a specific function. The single button commands are self-explanatory, while P+K are generally stronger and special types of punches (or things like reversals), K+G are stronger kicking attacks, and P+G are throws. P+K+G are generally unique attacks or functions, such as changing stances for characters that use more than one.

The biggest difference compared to most other fighters is how in depth the throwing system is. In most games they're just a check to keep opponents from turtling too much, or maybe get more positional advantage. In Virtua Fighter throws are a whole category of offense, in fact for a couple characters it’s their main way to getting big damage. Even characters that don’t rely on throws general have several different kinds of throws, while grapplers like Goh and Jeffrey will have over a half dozen, not counting their side and back throws which have different states too. Having a bigger pool of throws to choose from matters because of how throw escapes work. While most fighting games let you escape throws with any input or just a corresponding throw input, and can be done on reaction with practice. In VF you have to match the corresponding direction the command ends in. If your opponent’s throw command ends in forward + throw, you must also input forward + throw to escape it. This means you have to be cognizant of what the opponent might use in a throw situation and buffer accordingly. Is he going to go for the big damaging throw, or is he going to go with a less damaging, and therefore less expected and therefore “safer” throw? That’s the mind games VF thrives on.



Those mind games are the heart of what makes Virtua Fighter so appealing. Because of how rock solid the foundational mechanics are, there is always an answer to counter what your opponent is doing. You need to have a basic understanding of the checks and balances the system has (ie why these tools have the properties they do) but once you do you start to appreciate just how thought out and intertwined everything is. Because of how the mechanics are laid out it is very apparent what you or your opponent did to successfully land an attack, or what the mistake was when something fails. In a lot of fighting games you often have to be at a pretty advance level to instantly diagnose these things, but in VF the information is very open. You and the opponent can both tell RIGHT AWAY what happened, and because of this you are adjusting your approach constantly, because there is always an answer to what you or the opponent is doing. Instead being about who can pull off the biggest combos (thought that does help), VF is more about who can read and counteract the opponent better. There is a reason the term Yomi (a Japanese term meaning the ability to read the mind of the opponent) is synonymous with Virtua Fighter. Again, this psychological appeal also applies to most quality fighting games, but in VF even low-level but roughly equally skilled players can have these fascinating conversations. A lot of fighting games boil down to trying to dominate your will over your opponents, but in VF you have to listen to what your opponent is doing in a back-and-forth, almost turn-based manner. Because of this, defensive techniques like a well-timed throw escape or reversal can be as gratifying as any clinching attack.



I’ve extolled about the series as a whole so far, but what makes VF4 in particular so great? VF4 took the series back to its roots after VF3 experimented with uneven terrain and a fourth reversal button. And for the first time in the series the home release had significant single player in the Kumite mode, in which you faced an endless series of AI opponents of various skill and gradually gain rank. You could also customize the look of you fighters by gaining in game currency and winning special matches, a great feature for a game that thanks to its legacy has some fairly bland character designs. It was an eye-catching game between the great visuals (which were still less than arcade perfect), great animation, and fascinating systems. But it was its updated version Evolution that truly blew me away. VF4’s Kumite mode was fun, and a cool idea for single player content in a fighting game. VF4:Evo’s Quest mode however is still the best single-player content that’s ever been in a fighting game. In Quest mode it simulates the arcade scene in Japan by having certain pools of AI in simulated arcade scenes. As you leveled up and gained rank, more arcades with higher caliber players open up. While the AI had a tendency to rubber band too obviously, they did a great job of exhibiting actual tendencies like real players. They even had AI modeled after real top players in Japan. Sure, they were nothing compared to the real thing, but seeing names like Chibita (a player even I knew from VF forums) appear was awesome. It might not help you too much depending on your skill level, but for a low-level player like me it was a fantastic substitute for real life competition. There were also a ton more items to collect for every character, and you could make some really cool or ridiculous getups. Having a chest come up onscreen (meaning you’d get prize, sometimes a guaranteed item) added a lot of tension and added weight to winning and losing brilliantly. There was also long-term missions that helped you hone your skills (e.g. throw your opponent from a guarantee throw situation 10 times), as some of the later ones got pretty advance.

Not only that, but VF4 Evo still has for my money the best in-game tutorial in a fighting game. Like it’s astounding how far above it was compared to everything else. I used to say it was “like it was from the future!” Nothing came close to how in-depth Evo's tutorial was in explaining both the theory and the application of the games mechanics. Not only could you learn a lot, it did so in way that wasn’t overwhelming. You’d start with the basics, which led to more advance wrinkles and how these nuances overlapped. Even many years afterward it still seemed “from the future” because nobody was even trying to match it, even VF5 didn’t. Which is bizarre considering how severe the genre inherently is, and how most fighting games are tuned with high level input in mind. Nowadays Arc System Works has closed the gap considerably in some of their titles, although I still think Evo’s tutorial has a gentler learning curve and explained theory in more detail. Of course, maybe I just like the elegance of VF’s systems better.



On top of that, there was a 10th Anniversary Mode which reimagined the original Virtua Fighter having the entire Evo cast in their blocky, moon-jumping glory of the original game. It’s a funky version because even though the original cast have their VF1 appearance, their movesets is based on their modern incarnation. Not something you’re probably going to spend a lot of time on but it’s pretty elaborate for what is essential an easter egg for fans.

Evolution weighs in with 15 fighters, which may not sound like a lot, but every character plays very differently and have different strengths to be explored. Whether is be how Aoi can reverse every single move in the game, Lei-Fei's graceful Shaolin-Kung Fu or Goh's extensive Judo grapples on grounded opponents, every character is super interesting to play, although some (like Akira) have higher execution barriers than others. Outside of Rock Band there isn’t a game I’ve put more time into, and I didn’t even explore a good half of the cast to any depth. It is massive in terms of content and is easily my deserted island game. Conquering the quest mode with any character is a huge task, and if you’ve done that there’s 14 more characters which require relearning on a very basic level. As impressive as the cast diversity is, the balance the roster has may be even more so. The cast of the series has grown very slowly, adding no more than two characters at a time because AM2 is meticulous about getting everything as balanced as possible. It’s isn’t perfect of course, no game is, but VF4 Evo is pretty darn close. Yes, there are tiers lists, but unlike other fighting game they really only apply to the highest levels of competition. Some matchups are harder than others but any character should be able to beat anyone else if you have the chops. That’s awesome, though having such clear distillation can be a double-edged sword.



You see Virtua Fighter has a reputation of being this incomprehensibly deep fighting game series that only the most hardcore should even bother trying to play. That is not true, in fact I’d argue if you’re a fight game noob you’d probably have a better time grasping VF compared to playing Street Fighter or Marvel well. Yes, there are a lot of complexities, and yes it’s depth can feel oceanic the more you study it. But you don’t need to be good at all to enjoy it, as long as you’re playing someone of similar skill level. Of course if you are playing someone significantly better than you, you will lose 99%. Other games like Tekken or Soul Calibur are more mashable or more chaotic to muddy the waters some, but VF is precise and exacting in the right hands. Its concise nature is brilliant, but it does turn away casual players to some degree, although again I think it’s reputation is wildly exaggerated. Once you get past the entry stage it’s actually quite interesting even if you aren’t good at putting together fancy combos.

Virtua Fighter 4 was hardly the first fighting game I enjoyed, but it is the first video game to really make me appreciate how detailed and thought out a game’s design could be. It made me appreciate the craft of game design to a degree I had never considered before. Virtua Fighter is the fighting game series I’ve really wanted to research and practice to get better more than anything before or since. My modest VF skills have rusted away due to not practicing anymore, but the time I invested into Evo was some of the most rewarding I’ve had with a video game.


Any other entries worth playing?

Virtua Fighter 5, while never coming into as good a package as Evo did, is a fantastic game in its own right adding two more fighters in Luchador El Blaze and the monkey-kung fu practitioner of Eileen. The original PS3 version like Evo had a quest mode, though the AI wasn’t as good. Unfortunately, it did not have an online mode, a big problem in a console generation that was all about online infrastructure. While the developers insistence maintaining the frame perfect purity of the VF experience was admirable in some ways, the headwind as too strong for that to not be seen as a mark against it. Ironically, the game was later ported to the Xbox 360, which not only had better Quest mode AI, had online netcode that was actually pretty damn good, especially at the time. Unfortunately the game was old news by then and did not sell well. VF5 then had a major revision in VF5 R which included newcomer karate man Jean Kujo and the return of Sumo wrestler Taka-Arashi, who had gone missing since his sole inclusion in VF3. Unfortunately It did not appear outside Japanese arcades, but the final major update VF5 Final Showdown did get localized as a download only. Thanks to outdated XBLA standards they were working with a hard memory cap, and could not include all of the Quest mode stuff of the previous games. It still is the best version of VF5 though, with excellent character balance and a great netcode. The biggest thing is it simplified the throw system, making everything a one in three shot of calling a throw escape. It was a nod to making their complicated throw game more accessible, and while I don’t completely love it, it was a decent compromise without completely losing one of the series’ trademarks.



Even though pretty much everyone that is seriously into fighting games acknowledges VF as being gems in terms of design, the series has never caught on big in the west. Whether it’s because been tied to later Sega platforms that never had big install bases in the series beginning, the fact that the grammar of the game is very different Capcom fighters (even stuff like when to block and when to attack), the fact that it isn’t as easy to button mash as some other fighters (especially in the early versions), it’s hardcore reputation kept casual players away, or just the fact that they just aren’t as flamboyant next to Tekken or Dead or Alive, Virtua Fighter has never been able to gain a strong fanbase. Virtua Fighter has had a stronger following in Japan, with VF 2 and 4 being big hits. VF5 did not make as big a splash as Sega had hoped though, and even they, who has a pretty big stake in the arcade business in Japan, started scaling back that branch of the company, even in the wake of the Street Fighter IV boom (Sega: masters of timing :-\). It’s not impossible that Virtua Fighter 6 will be commissioned one day, but I wouldn’t count on it. It not clear if they even still have a staff capable of making a new VF. That said, if VF5 Final Showdown is the last VF it’s a fine version to go out on. The various version of VF4 and 5 will still stand as some of the best examples the genre has produced. Oh and VF2 is still pretty darn cool for its time too.


« Last Edit: July 12, 2017, 06:07:07 PM by Mr. Beale »

Offline Mr. Beale

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #1007 on: July 10, 2017, 09:44:05 PM »
Updated with all 50 games:

By Decade

80s- 1
90s- 16
00s- 19
10s- 14

Platforms (Going by original release)

NES- 1

SNES- 5
Sega CD- 1
PC Engine- 1
4th Gen Multiplatform (SNES/Genesis/Game Gear/Arcade)- 2

PlayStation- 5
N64- 2
5th Gen Multiplatform (N64/PlayStation/Other)- 1

PlayStation 2- 4
Gameboy Advance- 1
6th Gen Multiplatform (PS2/Gamecube/XBOX/Arcade)- 4

PlayStation 3- 7
PSP- 2
DS- 1
7th Gen Multiplat (PS3/XBOX360/Arcade/PC)- 9

PS Vita-1
8th Gen Multiplatform (PS4/XBOX ONE/Arcade/PC)-2

PC- 1

Genres

RPGs- 15
Fighting- 7
Platformer- 6
Strategy or Strategy/Tactical-RPGs- 4
Action-Adventure (including Stealth)- 4
Action (including SW: Rogue Squadron)- 4
Adventure- 3
Sports- 3
Racing- 2
Beat em up- 1
Music-rhythm- 1



I've updated these lists with the final count.

Took a little longer than I intended, but it was fun to explain some of my favorite, especially the lesser known ones. Hope someone learned a thing or two. :lol Hope someone steps up to keep the thread going because they are fun to read.  :tup

Offline Cool Chris

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #1008 on: July 10, 2017, 09:44:54 PM »
I think I had played 2 games on this list. But enjoyed following nonetheless. Thanks Mr Beale. Who's up?
"Nostalgia is just the ability to forget the things that sucked" - Nelson DeMille, 'Up Country'

Offline ReaperKK

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #1009 on: July 11, 2017, 05:10:05 AM »
Great list and absolutely fantastic write-ups!

Offline cramx3

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #1010 on: July 11, 2017, 09:38:03 AM »
I think I had played 2 games on this list. But enjoyed following nonetheless. Thanks Mr Beale. Who's up?

Yea, the list didn't resonate with me personally since I didn't know most of the games, but still a cool write up and always interesting to see new games.  Thanks for doing that.

Offline Kwyjibo

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #1011 on: July 12, 2017, 12:20:49 AM »
Yep, me too, I haven't commented on anything because I think I knew only one or two games, but it was still an interesting read. So, thanks for that.
Must've been Kwyji sending all the wrong songs.   ;D

Offline Sacul

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #1012 on: July 18, 2017, 09:17:28 PM »
Forgot to comment but really awesome list! Don't know a good bunch and there are a few I really wanna play (like Persona 4). Since you like RPGs, have you played Earthbound or Mother 3? They're awesome.

Offline Mr. Beale

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #1013 on: July 21, 2017, 12:15:12 PM »
Forgot to comment but really awesome list! Don't know a good bunch and there are a few I really wanna play (like Persona 4). Since you like RPGs, have you played Earthbound or Mother 3? They're awesome.

I've played like the first half hour of Earthbound. Didn't grab me, but I know I need to return to it someday to give it more of a fair shake.

Offline Cable

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Re: Top 25 Video Games Lists v2.0: Double Size from Mr Beale (starts pg25)
« Reply #1014 on: August 09, 2017, 11:52:18 AM »
Is this thing completely dead?
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