Last 3 albums with Portnoy vs First 3 albums with Mangini

[Dream Team]

Mangini. 

8V was the first DT album I loved front to back.  SC is surprisingly one of my two favorite DT albums but BC&SL is just blah.  Music is great.  Lyrics are terrible. 

ADTOE is my absolute favorite DT album. DT was a bit of a let down but the highs on this one are REALLY high and overall a great album.  Astonishing I can't get into. 

So while the two eras are on par in many ways with two great albums and one let down, the Mangini era edges it out in many ways.  Also, while I prefer BC&SL to the Astonishing, I have a lot of respect for undertaking the Astonishing was.  Also, the lyrics were just lazy on a lot of BC&SL making it hard to listen to.

So wait, you don't think SC's lyrics were bad?

[SnakeEyes]

This is a complicated question.  I love Octavarium, but I hated SC and Black Clouds.  But, then I love ADTOE, but hate DT12 and Astonishing. 

With that being said, I chose the second option.  Here's why:  I hated the direction DT was going in more than I don't like the last two DT albums.  I think, although I don't like the two albums, it's not a STYLISTIC thing, it's just that I don't care for the songs.  With MP and the way they were going, they were doing the cookie monster thing, everything was fake heavy.... yeah, no thanks. 

[bosk1]

Mangini. 

8V was the first DT album I loved front to back.  SC is surprisingly one of my two favorite DT albums but BC&SL is just blah.  Music is great.  Lyrics are terrible. 

ADTOE is my absolute favorite DT album. DT was a bit of a let down but the highs on this one are REALLY high and overall a great album.  Astonishing I can't get into. 

So while the two eras are on par in many ways with two great albums and one let down, the Mangini era edges it out in many ways.  Also, while I prefer BC&SL to the Astonishing, I have a lot of respect for undertaking the Astonishing was.  Also, the lyrics were just lazy on a lot of BC&SL making it hard to listen to.

So wait, you don't think SC's lyrics were bad?

I'm not sure why anyone would.  For the most part, DT hasn't really had bad lyrics since Kevin Moore left the band.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Don't care for any of them, so I'm not voting.  Curious to see what the results end up looking like.  Then I'd be curious to see how a first 3 MP albums vs. first 3 MM albums went down.

[namgalsipsclar]

Mangini. 

8V was the first DT album I loved front to back.  SC is surprisingly one of my two favorite DT albums but BC&SL is just blah.  Music is great.  Lyrics are terrible. 

ADTOE is my absolute favorite DT album. DT was a bit of a let down but the highs on this one are REALLY high and overall a great album.  Astonishing I can't get into. 

So while the two eras are on par in many ways with two great albums and one let down, the Mangini era edges it out in many ways.  Also, while I prefer BC&SL to the Astonishing, I have a lot of respect for undertaking the Astonishing was.  Also, the lyrics were just lazy on a lot of BC&SL making it hard to listen to.

So wait, you don't think SC's lyrics were bad?

I'm not sure why anyone would.  For the most part, DT hasn't really had bad lyrics since Kevin Moore left the band.

Whuh...

[pdurbin22]

Had to go with the MM run of albums. I freaking love "The Astonishing," "A Dramatic Turn of Events" has three of my all-time DT faves in Bridges in the Sky, Breaking All Illusions and Beneath the Surface, and "DT12" is a good album marred by a bad snare sound. 

"Systematic Chaos" and "Black Clouds," on the other hand, I rarely listen to anymore. 

[Prog Snob]

Mangini. 

8V was the first DT album I loved front to back.  SC is surprisingly one of my two favorite DT albums but BC&SL is just blah.  Music is great.  Lyrics are terrible. 

ADTOE is my absolute favorite DT album. DT was a bit of a let down but the highs on this one are REALLY high and overall a great album.  Astonishing I can't get into. 

So while the two eras are on par in many ways with two great albums and one let down, the Mangini era edges it out in many ways.  Also, while I prefer BC&SL to the Astonishing, I have a lot of respect for undertaking the Astonishing was.  Also, the lyrics were just lazy on a lot of BC&SL making it hard to listen to.

So wait, you don't think SC's lyrics were bad?

I'm not sure why anyone would.  For the most part, DT hasn't really had bad lyrics since Kevin Moore left the band.

Whuh...

I agree with bosk. I'm not sure why people would think the lyrics on SC are bad. People get too hyped up in disliking something so they completely disregard everything to do with said thing. So, SC isn't one of DT's best album. A low grade DT release is still pretty damn good compared to most other things out there. Just because it's not their best effort doesn't mean that all of the lyrics are bad. Just because the overall consensus of the album is that it's not one of their best doesn't mean that JP's guitar solos didn't kick ass on it.

Don't care for any of them, so I'm not voting.  Curious to see what the results end up looking like.  Then I'd be curious to see how a first 3 MP albums vs. first 3 MM albums went down.

Considering that would include I &W and Awake, I can't see the MP batch losing. What do you think Coz?

[Train of Naught]

Well, I really like SC and BCSL, but I wouldn't say the lyrics were DT's finest hour either. You can disagree, but you can't just assume that everyone dislikes the lyrics on those albums just because these are some of the least favorite albums by general consensus.

[ReaperKK]

I am shocked that MM albums have such a lead. 8V and SC are the last really great DT albums IMO.

[Prog Snob]

I am shocked that MM albums have such a lead. 8V and SC are the last really great DT albums IMO.

Are you on the weed again? 

[dtvoices94]

As much as I love Octavarium, SC & BC&SL are DT's nadir so the first 3 with Mangini get my vote.

[hefdaddy42]

I am shocked that MM albums have such a lead. 8V and SC are the last really great DT albums IMO.

Are you on the weed again? 

No shit WTF

[BlobVanDam]

I am shocked that MM albums have such a lead. 8V and SC are the last really great DT albums IMO.

I agree.

[ReaperKK]

I am shocked that MM albums have such a lead. 8V and SC are the last really great DT albums IMO.

Are you on the weed again? 

No shit WTF

No I'm stone sober. If I wanted a collection of forgettable music, I'd go with mangini era

[Prog Snob]

I am shocked that MM albums have such a lead. 8V and SC are the last really great DT albums IMO.

Are you on the weed again? 

No shit WTF

No I'm stone sober. If I wanted a collection of forgettable music, I'd go with mangini era

I don't know how to process that.

[ReaperKK]

I just feel the past three albums are good but they lack energy. Granted I don't listen to much DT anymore these days but I'd much rather listen to the last Portnoy albums. It felt like there was more spark in the band.

I'm also not a big Portnoy fan boi and I was pretty excited when he left to see what DT could bring to the table with a new drummer but it seemed that he brought a some energy to the band that IMO has been lacking since Mangini joined.

I'll still listen to the their new material and I would go to a show if they were in my area (not Astonishing though, not interested in seeing that live) but I have yet to enjoy their recent output more than the final output of the MP years.

[Prog Snob]

Understandable.    I was just busting your balls. I love 8V as well, but Never Enough and Panic Attack bring it down a few notches for me. SC and BC&SL were not two of my most favorite releases but I've come to love them much more recently.  Now though, I love that sound they have with MM. I love the similarities between ADTOE and I&W. I love the versatility of TA.

[kirksnosehair]

This was easy for me: The Mangini albums


Octavarium is near the bottom of my album ranking and SC isn't much higher.  BC&SL was OK musically but the lyrics and cookie monster antics are just   

[cfmoran13]

Even including The Astonishing, the Mangini albums win out.  The shine was definitely coming off the DT machine with those last 3 MP albums.  Each album has a few songs I like.  But, for the most part, especially the final 2, I don't really revisit them at all.

[Madman Shepherd]

Mangini. 

8V was the first DT album I loved front to back.  SC is surprisingly one of my two favorite DT albums but BC&SL is just blah.  Music is great.  Lyrics are terrible. 

ADTOE is my absolute favorite DT album. DT was a bit of a let down but the highs on this one are REALLY high and overall a great album.  Astonishing I can't get into. 

So while the two eras are on par in many ways with two great albums and one let down, the Mangini era edges it out in many ways.  Also, while I prefer BC&SL to the Astonishing, I have a lot of respect for undertaking the Astonishing was.  Also, the lyrics were just lazy on a lot of BC&SL making it hard to listen to.

So wait, you don't think SC's lyrics were bad?

Not at all.  I thought they were great.  They were much more literary.  BC&SL had a lot of songs that were just blandly describing what happened...ya know, then I got into his car, he was smoking, we were driving down the road. 

You may not like the content of the lyrics of SC but I think they were very well written. 

[pantsofeternity]

Yeah my sense has always been that the lyrical complaints on SC were more content-based -- i.e., folks not digging the sort of sci-fi / mythology vibe -- but if you didn't mind that, I don't think they were poorly constructed.

Whereas I do think the lyrics on BCASL had the opposite problem -- the ideas for (most) of the songs were an interesting kernel, but the execution didn't quite live up to the potential (IMO).  I also feel it has the most cringeworthy lines of any album.

[Madman Shepherd]

Yeah my sense has always been that the lyrical complaints on SC were more content-based -- i.e., folks not digging the sort of sci-fi / mythology vibe -- but if you didn't mind that, I don't think they were poorly constructed.

Whereas I do think the lyrics on BCASL had the opposite problem -- the ideas for (most) of the songs were an interesting kernel, but the execution didn't quite live up to the potential (IMO).  I also feel it has the most cringeworthy lines of any album.

I agree.  The idea of a person finding himself as a pseudo prisoner in Tuscany sounds intriguing, or even a terrifying night where your whole family is on the verge of dying could be an interesting and emotional song, but..."Mother and father, holding each other?"  Ehhhhh.....

I did think A Rite of Passage had excellent lyrics and easily my favorite song on that album, which seems to be most peoples least favorite. 

[Kotowboy]

1. Octavarium
2. The Astonishing
3. A Dramatic Turn of Events
4. Systematic Chaos
5. Black Clouds & Silver Linings

[Outcrier]

1. Octavarium
2. A Dramatic Turn of Events
3. Systematic Chaos
4. Dream Theater
5. Black Clouds & Silver Linings
6. The Astonishing

[TheCountOfNYC]

For Octavarium alone, the last three albums with Portnoy take it for me. I love ADToE and TA, but I consider 8vm to be their last truly great album.

[erwinrafael]

As is usually the case in judging the like or dislike for the MM-era DT, the poll numbers show the voice of the silent majority that do not correspond with the impression you will get from the vocal posters on the forum. 

[Adami]

As is usually the case in judging the like or dislike for the MM-era DT, the poll numbers show the voice of the silent majority that do not correspond with the impression you will get from the vocal posters on the forum. 

But this isn't measuring like or dislike for MM-era DT. It's measuring like or dislike for MM-era DT against their last three albums. I have a strong feeling that if this was pre-MM and post-MM albums, the results would be different. But a lot of people (including me) don't really like SC or Black Clouds all too much, so this pole doesn't tell us much.

[jjrock88]

Mangini , even allowing for the fact that I am not particularly interested in The Astonishing.

[BlobVanDam]

As is usually the case in judging the like or dislike for the MM-era DT, the poll numbers show the voice of the silent majority that do not correspond with the impression you will get from the vocal posters on the forum. 

What? The poll results were predictable given the constant vocal hate towards the last few MP albums here on DTF. There's nothing silent about it.

[Madman Shepherd]

True, but I see a lot of criticism for the Mangini era, too....so the results did kind of surprise me. 

[Outcrier]

True, but I see a lot of criticism for the Mangini era, too....so the results did kind of surprise me.

It did help that SC and Black Clouds are the least liked DT albums after WDADU.

[Kotowboy]

For Octavarium alone, the last three albums with Portnoy take it for me. I love ADToE and TA, but I consider 8vm to be their last truly great album.

I think A Dramatic Turn Of Events is really good. It just suffers from a flat production.

[Sir GuitarCozmo]

Don't care for any of them, so I'm not voting.  Curious to see what the results end up looking like.  Then I'd be curious to see how a first 3 MP albums vs. first 3 MM albums went down.

Considering that would include I &W and Awake, I can't see the MP batch losing. What do you think Coz?

I obviously would think the MP batch would win there, but honestly, I don't even know what to expect around these parts anymore. 

[MirrorMask]

Well, just so you know, the current results are:

Portnoy albums: 25 (24.8%)
Mangini albums: 76 (75.2%)

Overwhelming victory so far for the Mangini albums!

[FsF]

BC&SL
8VM
ADTOE
DT13
SC
TA

Portnoy vote for me.