Author Topic: The X-Men Thread v. (****LOGAN DISCUSSION/SPOILERS****)  (Read 5747 times)

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Offline Kotowboy

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #70 on: May 18, 2016, 05:06:24 PM »
I think adding the X-Men to the MCU would make it just way too crowded, so I'm fine with another company playing in that sandbox.


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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #71 on: May 20, 2016, 07:21:11 AM »
What I meant with the article is that Xmen by its nature is a large collection of mutants. So comparing it to something like Batman V Superman and not a lot of characters is a bit narrow sighted.
Yeah, but they are both big spectacle films about comic book characters.  It's not narrow-sighted at all to compare how good a job was done in portraying that kind of stuff.
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Offline The Trooper

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #72 on: May 21, 2016, 09:41:27 AM »
Re-watched Apocalypse this morning. I really like it more on the second viewing. Not as good as Futures past and my third best comic movie of the year. But solid movie.

Offline Cable

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #73 on: May 21, 2016, 06:58:39 PM »
Rotten tomatoes is not too hot at the moment, especially when comparing Singer's other X Films. Kind of a bummer, I was really excited for this one due to them finally doing Apocalypse. Deadpool's success will allow for other characters though.
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Offline Phoenix87x

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #74 on: May 28, 2016, 12:03:08 PM »
Just watched apocalypse. I am speechless. That was incredible  :hefdaddy

People are heavily divided on this one, but I couldn't be happier. I absolutely loved it.
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Offline Cable

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #75 on: May 28, 2016, 06:38:15 PM »
I enjoyed it's

Without going into specific spoilers, I really was not a fan of how Apocalypse had basically every power. It makes sense how they wrote him, but just not him.
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Offline Cable

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #76 on: May 29, 2016, 04:17:13 PM »
The more I think about it, the more I am disappointed with how they did Apocalypse. I understand fully that these films are not true to their source, no can they really ever be. That did not hurt Days of Future Past what so ever. More often, it's just the events that they alter. With Apocalypse, they messed with his powers, how he gets them, and the fact that he ages. Just not a good choice to me, when Singer pushed out pure gold in the past. I have no problem with Isaac's portrayal. However, something as simple has him becoming larger really had a big effect relative to the perceived might of him really could have aided in the film. Here he can just eliminate things at will. He was also generally always the biggest character, where here he is pretty much the same height as everyone in the film.
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Offline Zantera

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #77 on: May 29, 2016, 04:27:27 PM »
Didn't Apocalypse absorb powers in the comics too? I don't remember much but I remember him being all powerful. I liked the included idea that he had to transfer bodies because it added stakes. It gave him a reason to have the four horsemen, to protect him during the transfer.

Offline Zook

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #78 on: May 29, 2016, 05:42:46 PM »
X-Men: Apocalypse was pretty awesome.

Offline Accelerando

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #79 on: June 01, 2016, 12:29:53 AM »
I'm not sure what the critics saw. While it is no where near as great as X-Men United or Days of Future Past, it is a good movie. Very engaging and ambitious. The only issue I had were that at times it felt labored with the amount of character motivations it had to address. Otherwise, it is a good movie, and has some great X-Men moments. It does not deserve the atrocious 40% on rotten tomatoes.

Also the big X-Men fan in me lost it at the post-credits scene because WE'RE ABOUT TO GET MISTER SINISTER IN THE NEXT MOVIE!!!!!!!

Offline Zantera

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #80 on: June 01, 2016, 03:29:48 AM »
I really liked Apocalypse too. The critic I agreed with the most was Chris Stuckmann who gave the movie A-. He had some problems with it, but overall enjoyed it really much, as did I. A lot of the "problems" that I've seen critics have are not problems I share. Apocalypse was pretty much spot on to the Apocalypse I knew from the animated show. He is a bit over the top and he doesn't have any motivation other than wanting to see the strongest survive and the weak fall, so that was enough for me. I liked the new X-Men in their roles, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Nightcrawler, Storm, and I want more from them.

I remember Mr Sinister well from the animated show but I have to admit that I kinda confuse him with Apocalypse. They have different motives from what I recall, Apocalypse wanting to see a world in ashes with only the strong left, Sinister being obsessed with the Summers-family (from what I recall) but other than that, don't they have similar powers? Like a collection of many powers.

Offline Cyclopssss

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #81 on: June 01, 2016, 04:49:08 AM »
Loved the scene where the one character is saving all of the students from the blast in the school, even taking time out for a swig of cola.... very nicely done.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #82 on: June 01, 2016, 06:43:29 AM »
I've read some pretty bad reviews.  I can't speak much about them (agreeing or disagreeing) because I haven't seen the film, but I haven't really liked the way that Singer has handled any of the X-Men films all that much, so my opinion would probably be biased anyway.

I will say that the X-Men films that he wasn't involved with at all were much, much worse than the ones that he was.
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Offline Adami

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #83 on: June 01, 2016, 06:50:14 AM »
I've read mostly negative reviews, where the positive reviews were people who just wanted a popcorn fun flick. I'll see the movie once I get back to America, but I can say that even as far back as the first trailer, this is the first X-Men movie that really didn't excite me in the slightest. I've seen all of the trailers and even a few TV spots and it really just feels like mindless action without much else going on. And I'm a big fan of the X-Men films, minus X-3 and 2/3 of First Class.
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Offline Accelerando

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #84 on: June 01, 2016, 04:09:15 PM »
Guys, this is where you just need to see the movie to form your own opinion. I went in with low expectations, even though a few friends of mine told me it was a good film, and I came out enjoying the film. Like I said, it's not as good as X2 or DOFP, but it's a hell of a lot better than Origins and The Last Stand. There's a lot of emotional heft in this flick that pushes a few prominent characters story arc throughout this series.

Also, you won't help but smile to see what the X-Men are wearing at the very end of the film :-)


Offline Cable

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #85 on: June 01, 2016, 04:57:22 PM »
I really liked Apocalypse too. The critic I agreed with the most was Chris Stuckmann who gave the movie A-. He had some problems with it, but overall enjoyed it really much, as did I. A lot of the "problems" that I've seen critics have are not problems I share. Apocalypse was pretty much spot on to the Apocalypse I knew from the animated show. He is a bit over the top and he doesn't have any motivation other than wanting to see the strongest survive and the weak fall, so that was enough for me. I liked the new X-Men in their roles, Cyclops, Jean Grey, Nightcrawler, Storm, and I want more from them.

I remember Mr Sinister well from the animated show but I have to admit that I kinda confuse him with Apocalypse. They have different motives from what I recall, Apocalypse wanting to see a world in ashes with only the strong left, Sinister being obsessed with the Summers-family (from what I recall) but other than that, don't they have similar powers? Like a collection of many powers.





There will be spoilers in my post.






The problem is that the movie establishes NO motivation for Apocalypse. Why does he want to conquer everyone, because he is a deity? That doesn't explain why does he feel he needs to conquer everyone. I don't recall that being explored. All of us that watched the TV shows, and/or read some of the comics, know what his motivation is. But it goes deeper as we learned more about him. They retconned it yes in the comics, but considering Days Of Future Past where they show him at the end when he was younger, it would be reasoned they would maybe flashback to that. They could have spent 5 minutes to show he was rejected. I don't even think they established his backstory until after the original Fox TV series. But at least he made more sense. The average movie goer does not know this. So in this film, we get deity like bad guy with no way to relate to him. Further, his powers are already a cluster-bleep in the comics, and this movie continued that by adding more to it nearly.

Regarding Mr. Sinister and Apocalypse, my understanding is that Apocalypse created Mr. Sinister's powers. Mr. Sinister however hates Apocalypse as he realized his intentions, and also his rigid personality. As much as I don't know about Sinister, he seems to not be so black & white as Apocalypse. Sinister has primarily used the Summers family as pawns to take down Apocalypse, and that has created massive continuity issues/paradoxes. Therefore, we have my avatar and namesake, along with a Jean Grey clone.


Quote


Then if we look at the main characters. Magneto once again goes from "good" to "bad." Quicksilver could have stopped that whole Magneto mass destruction by speaking basically, but decided not to. Mystique is all of a sudden a main character, leader of the Xmen, and has managed two world threatening villains/events. All while having a usual power, but in no way comparable to many other mainline mutants that are put in frontline battle roles. Wolverine's appearance is a 10 minute or whatever murder-fest. Havoc is killed off as an afterthought, and his brother Cyclops, I think, didn't even acknowledge it? Xavier "unlocks" Grey for another go-round at the Dark Phoenix Saga. Because that worked out so well jamming it into an ensemble movie last time. Or that the storyline has caused a schism in the Marvel universe, both creators and fans.

Singer or whoever messed up the timeline with regard to aging. Simply put, 1st class was 60's, DOFP 70's, Apocalypse 80's. Mystique and Beast have basically aged because Jenny Lawrence and Holt are tired of the blue paint. So by them not being in their natural state, they aged I guess? Quicksilver still lives in his mom's basement, and they explain that away as a joke. Havoc didn't really age, but they killed him off, so that answered that question.

On the note of Lawrence, this has turned into Halle Berry part 2. An actress is in the first movie, wins an Oscar for a different role, and wants a bigger role and bigger pay for a character that may not justify it. In the case of Lawrence, she should have never had this important of a role with her character for now two films. Yet she dictated being not being blue, and basically running the last two films with her scenes. Berry tried the same garbage from what I read around X2, but was not as effective as Lawrence.

http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Main-Reason-Jennifer-Lawrence-May-Quit-Playing-Mystique-72649.html
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/x-men/bryan-singer-thinks-jennifer-lawrences-mystique-should-get-a-solo-spin-off-a142203

Guys, this is where you just need to see the movie to form your own opinion. I went in with low expectations, even though a few friends of mine told me it was a good film, and I came out enjoying the film. Like I said, it's not as good as X2 or DOFP, but it's a hell of a lot better than Origins and The Last Stand. There's a lot of emotional heft in this flick that pushes a few prominent characters story arc throughout this series.

Also, you won't help but smile to see what the X-Men are wearing at the very end of the film :-)




Emotions in this movie? Magneto? That's about it from what I recall. And that was a rehashing to re-motivate Magneto to do bad again.

Sure, this film is better Wolverine: Origins. At this point, this movie equals X3 in mediocrity, and failure overall on many fronts;

An actress that wants a bigger role/out of the series
=check.
A Dark Phoenix
=half check. 
New characters that aren't really explained
=check.
Dead mutants, and moving on immediately
=check.
A director/producer that is gone (again)
=check.
Mass destruction, and return to mostly a status quo
=check.
Misrepresented powers/importance of characters
=check.

This movie is way far far away from X2 and DOFP. 1st Class and Xmen1 are also much better.

http://www.slashfilm.com/x-men-apocalypse-spoiler-review/3/


All in all, sure, the film is fun. I enjoyed it while watching it, and I would see it again. It had a great amount of humor, and what was even better was the Star Wars joke. What is bad though is this film lives up to that joke. This film goes no where, and does more harm than good for the characters. It barely maintains continuity by weak afterthought measures. I believe the Lawrence influence, Singer leaving afterwards, and probably some studio meddling led to this. It just feels exactly like X3 all over again. Maybe that is too harsh. So maybe it is just a transitionary film. Somehow though, the gold standard MCU transition films have not got this level of heat critically.  :|

Overall, it's a comic book movie, in no way can they live up to canon, and I'm clearly biased.  :lol ;) I still take it too seriously. *sigh*  :chill
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 05:21:18 PM by CableX »
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Offline Zantera

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #86 on: June 01, 2016, 05:08:15 PM »
BEWARE SPOILERS

Personally I don't think we needed anything more from Apocalypse to make him work better. You have a character like the Joker in The Dark Knight who is basically loved by everyone, and they don't go into his background other than "he wants to watch the world burn", which could essentially be said for Apocalypse too, except he is willing to let the strong survive while "cleansing" the weak. Just for me personally, I didn't need anything more than they set up.

With the timeline/age situation, it's definitely messed up and there's no way you think Beast is 20 years older than he was in First Class or Quicksilver being 10 years older since DoFP, but they went that route with 1 movie per decade and I don't mind it. It requires some suspension of disbelief, but out of all the so-called problems, I think this definitely falls on the minor list.

Mystique/Jennifer Lawrence was definitely the weakest part for me and they should just retire her. They could have ended with her walking away and some nonsense about "She needs to go her own path", or even better, have Apocalypse kill her in the final fight, and that could have finished her arc that they set up in the film. She is seen by others as a hero after what happened in DoFP, but she doesn't relate to that herself. What about her sacrificing herself, or rather killed by Apocalypse trying to be the hero, and her death inspiring the others to fight against him, eventually destroying him. That would finish her arc, would give her a purpose in the film and we wouldn't risk the chance of having another phoned in performance in the next one.


Offline Cable

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #87 on: June 01, 2016, 05:32:49 PM »
I agree with both of your second and third paragraphs.  ;D

The thing about Joker, and this comes from a non-DC comic follower. Heath Ledger joker felt mentally unstable, and that came across in his dialogue/portrayal to me. Same for Nicholson Joker, in a different manner. I could fully understand why those characters did what they did. Ledger was maybe traumatized, maybe not. He certainly was unbalanced so to speak. Jack's Joker was out for revenge, a long time criminal, and had a disfiguring event happen. The Joker is also much more well known publicly and pop media wise than Apocalypse. More than Magneto too. But even still, Jack's Joker had enough backstory in there to provide insight into his motivations. This was important, as the common opinion from what I gathered back then was the Joker was a trickster and comedian based on the TV show with Romero.

Yet with Magneto, we have learned about his motivations now at least three times over the nine film continuity- I am throwing all Xmen universe films into it. And I'm accepting of that more, even though for example it grows tiring of learning about Spiderman's backstory again, and Batman's multiple times. I accept it because Magneto in the grand scope of all US based comics is a second their character. And unlike Batman and Spiderman, Magneto is not part of U.S. pop lexicon. Apocalypse however is then a third tier character IMO, so for an introduction for him, I felt it could have been so much better.

The inherent problem is Apocalypse is a newer character, and by comparison written subpar with all sorts of time travel issues. My fear is as they are taking on Cable now with Deadpool, and Sinister separately or not, they are opening themselves up to all sorts of challenges. They are already treading on murky water with Sinister, as they are implying he is already established. Yet Apocalypse was asleep...
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 05:45:13 PM by CableX »
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Offline Accelerando

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #88 on: June 01, 2016, 07:03:49 PM »
""

There was a CLEAR motivation for Apocalypse, and a set up. We spend 20 minutes of the film getting to know who he is and what he wants. He saw the Super Powers that were formed from the different countries of the human race, and wanted to end the law and civilization that was constructed all the centuries that he was inactive so that everyone would be ruled by him.

And I don't think anything that happened had to re-motivate Magneto from being a bad guy again. He always had the view that humans will never accept mutants. Just because he's laying low in the beginning of the film doesn't mean that view diminished. I think everything that happened in this film with Magneto was a great arc for his character in the franchise.

And Bryan Singer and Simon Kindberg did return as director and producer, respectively.

And this film is better than the first X-Men movie. That film has not aged well at all.

Offline Jaffa

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #89 on: June 09, 2016, 12:14:47 AM »
I kind of take issue with the argument that Mystique shouldn't be a major character.  Granted, her role was never this significant in the comics, but I really don't have any problem with that.  Actually, I think it's kind of refreshing for a new character to get so much of the spotlight in such a longstanding franchise. 

I feel like the criticism has more to do the actor Jennifer Lawrence than the character Mystique.  And that's fair.  They stumbled onto a megastar in the acting world, and they want to capitalize on it by making her character a star.  And are they trying to capitalize on Katniss Everdeen by putting up a poster with Jennifer Lawrence's (costumed) face on it and treating her as an underdog hero?  Sure, yeah, probably.  But, personally, none of that has really affected my enjoyment of the character or the movies.
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Offline jakepriest

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #90 on: June 09, 2016, 06:40:58 AM »
And this film is better than the first X-Men movie. That film has not aged well at all.

Oh definitely this. I watched the first X-Men movie recently and thought it was actually pretty bad by today's standards.
X-Men 2 remains awesome though.
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Offline Adami

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #91 on: June 09, 2016, 09:27:36 AM »
I kind of take issue with the argument that Mystique shouldn't be a major character.  Granted, her role was never this significant in the comics, but I really don't have any problem with that.  Actually, I think it's kind of refreshing for a new character to get so much of the spotlight in such a longstanding franchise. 

I feel like the criticism has more to do the actor Jennifer Lawrence than the character Mystique.  And that's fair.  They stumbled onto a megastar in the acting world, and they want to capitalize on it by making her character a star.  And are they trying to capitalize on Katniss Everdeen by putting up a poster with Jennifer Lawrence's (costumed) face on it and treating her as an underdog hero?  Sure, yeah, probably.  But, personally, none of that has really affected my enjoyment of the character or the movies.

I think one of the issues with her (from my perspective at least) is that they're not making her a main character due to loving her actual character, it's 100% a business decision to capitalize on Lawrence being in the cast. I think when stories are being written from a business perspective, it's not what I want in a movie like this.
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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #92 on: June 09, 2016, 09:34:45 AM »
I agree. It also bothers me that in the last 2 movies, she has been opposed the whole idea of X-Men, and at the end she still doesn't share Xavier's views on mutants and their place in the world, yet she is somehow the leader of their strike force.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #93 on: June 09, 2016, 10:06:30 AM »
I kind of take issue with the argument that Mystique shouldn't be a major character.  Granted, her role was never this significant in the comics, but I really don't have any problem with that.  Actually, I think it's kind of refreshing for a new character to get so much of the spotlight in such a longstanding franchise. 

I feel like the criticism has more to do the actor Jennifer Lawrence than the character Mystique.  And that's fair.  They stumbled onto a megastar in the acting world, and they want to capitalize on it by making her character a star.  And are they trying to capitalize on Katniss Everdeen by putting up a poster with Jennifer Lawrence's (costumed) face on it and treating her as an underdog hero?  Sure, yeah, probably.  But, personally, none of that has really affected my enjoyment of the character or the movies.

I think one of the issues with her (from my perspective at least) is that they're not making her a main character due to loving her actual character, it's 100% a business decision to capitalize on Lawrence being in the cast. I think when stories are being written from a business perspective, it's not what I want in a movie like this.
That, and Mystique shouldn't be a major character.
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Offline Accelerando

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #94 on: March 01, 2017, 02:15:46 PM »
Got my tickets for Logan this Friday night! I absolutely can not wait for this flick, and the phenomenal reviews that are coming out for it is getting me more excited. I'm not trying to get too hyped, but ever since that first trailer with the Johnny Cash song...it was one of my most anticipated movies of the year

Offline Adami

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #95 on: March 01, 2017, 02:16:47 PM »
Yea, I'm seeing it tomorrow. Really excited!
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Offline kingshmegland

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #96 on: March 01, 2017, 04:07:40 PM »
Dinner date and Logan tomorrow with the wifey.
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Offline aurorablind

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #97 on: March 02, 2017, 01:34:26 AM »
Watched Logan last night..... oh my god... Hugh Jackman and Patrick Stewart gave their best performance in this francise, without a doubt. This movie is FANTASTIC! 

9,5/10

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #98 on: March 02, 2017, 07:02:00 AM »
Taking the nephew on Saturday. Can't wait!

Offline aurorablind

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #99 on: March 02, 2017, 07:06:25 AM »
Warning: It's BRUTAL.

Offline kaos2900

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #100 on: March 02, 2017, 07:54:36 AM »
He's 16 and I took to him to Deadpool so he's good.  ;D

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #101 on: March 02, 2017, 08:45:10 AM »
I hope I get a chance to see it this weekend.  We'll see.
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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #102 on: March 02, 2017, 09:59:24 AM »
Glad I've got a ticket for tomorrow night at the dine in theater :hat
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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #103 on: March 02, 2017, 04:42:37 PM »
Logan was incredible. The kind of superhero movie I've always wanted to see, and it is essentially the best Last of Us movie that wasn't called The Last of Us. I think there's an argument to be made that this is on par, or better than The Dark Knight and Avengers.

Offline TioJorge

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Re: The X-Men Thread
« Reply #104 on: March 02, 2017, 07:51:25 PM »
Haven't seen Logan yet but I'm excited to. Just now got around to seeing Apocalypse and thought it was bad even when comparing it to X3. Which means I thought it was utter trash. Really boring, completely predictable and very bland.

However, once again, Quicksilver's scene was just absolutely fantastic and awe inspiring, especially this version. It's like all of their ingenuity and creativity went into this one scene. Totally awesome. Everything else sucked, I thought.  :lol Seriously though, if I saw just that scene I'd give the movie a 10/10.

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