Mangini's 5th Anniversary

[Peace and Love]

Hey guys, I found this awesome clip on Youtube today where MM explains how he constructed his DT kit. It's almost half an hour long!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPSqdFAcyEU

I'm sorry if posting this is against the rules or something, mods please delete it if so, and I apologise for posting it.

[Kotowboy]

Watching now

[CDrice]

''I don't know what it is, but WHEEE!''-Mike Mangini 

[Kotowboy]

" That's why I *need* 4 bass drums "

Fast forward 2 years and now he only has 2.

Guess you didn't *need* them after all.






* ( unless he's only slimmed down to 2 kicks just for The Astonishing tour - but I hope not because the kit looks much better with just two )

[bosk1]

Whether he feels he needs them now is irrelevant to whether he felt he needed them for the sound he was going for at the time.

[Kotowboy]

I hope he keeps it as 2 kicks because 4 bass drums ( for me ) just looks really excessive.

[hefdaddy42]

Well, this is prog metal.  "Excessive" kind of loses some of its meaning.

A 42-minute song is also excessive.  Meaningless.

[Kotowboy]

At least his kit now doesn't look as stupid as Mike Portnoy's Siamese kit...

[hefdaddy42]

I didn't think that looked stupid either.  I mean, it definitely looked big as hell, but it was literally two separate drumkits fused together.  The bass drums and snares were different on each side of the kit(s), so he got different sounds from different sides, and played different sides on different songs.

There was a purpose to it, it wasn't just a thousand drums stacked on top of each other, like Terry Bozzio's (although that supposedly has a purpose also).

You should really love this one.

[Kotowboy]

 

[hefdaddy42]

Yeah, I mean, that one gets a big WTF

[Kotowboy]

I used to go to my friend's house to jam and they only had a 4 piece with hi hats and maybe two cymbals.

I find that smaller kits force you to be more creative instead of just hitting everything for every drum fill.

[hefdaddy42]

I get that point of view, but I would rather have a few more choices.  I can make do with a 5-piece and 3 cymbals and a hi-hat, but I wouldn't want to go smaller than that.  I wouldn't feel creative, I would feel handcuffed.

But of course, I am not a fantastically talented drummer.  I am just an OK drummer.

[bosk1]

I find that smaller kits force you to be more creative instead of just hitting everything for every drum fill.

I disagree.  You can be just as creative on a larger kit as a smaller kit.  A smaller kit just lends itself to a different kind of creativity.

[Kotowboy]

I feel completely lost on a huge kit.

When I went to jam night in Guildford - the house kit had 4 rack toms and 2 floors.

That was too much for me. I just felt like 3 of those toms were in the way.

[devieira73]

" That's why I *need* 4 bass drums "

Fast forward 2 years and now he only has 2.

Guess you didn't *need* them after all.








* ( unless he's only slimmed down to 2 kicks just for The Astonishing tour - but I hope not because the kit looks much better with just two )

If I'm not mistaken I read in a recent MM interview that the sounds of these other two kicks are now triggered in his third pedals of each side of the kit.

[Kotowboy]

That makes more sense to me.

[DarkLord_Lalinc]

I find that smaller kits force you to be more creative instead of just hitting everything for every drum fill.

I disagree.  You can be just as creative on a larger kit as a smaller kit.  A smaller kit just lends itself to a different kind of creativity.

Agreed. It's like saying you can't be as creative with an 88-note keyboard as with a 49-note keyboard because it makes you hit more 'wisely' each key. Size is completely unrelated to the possible creative output of the instrument, I think.

[Adami]

I feel completely lost on a huge kit.

When I went to jam night in Guildford - the house kit had 4 rack toms and 2 floors.

That was too much for me. I just felt like 3 of those toms were in the way.

But not every drummer is you. Yes, sometimes having a small kit makes you think differently. Sometimes having a big kit makes you think differently. The people who hit everything on a big kit for every fill, are no different than the people who do uncreative fills on small kids.

[Bertielee]

I feel completely lost on a huge kit.

When I went to jam night in Guildford - the house kit had 4 rack toms and 2 floors.

That was too much for me. I just felt like 3 of those toms were in the way.

But not every drummer is you. Yes, sometimes having a small kit makes you think differently. Sometimes having a big kit makes you think differently. The people who hit everything on a big kit for every fill, are no different than the people who do uncreative fills on small kids.

I just don't wanna know what "uncreative fills on small kids" means. Too much for me!   

B.Lee

[King Postwhore]

 

Adami pulled a me.  I do agree with him with his evaluation on kit sizes and how good a drummers is.

[ReaPsTA]

On one hand, the idea of being more creative with limited choices makes sense. You have to try harder to make things work, which helps you come up with more original ideas.

On the other, no successful creative person ever truly believes this. What successful guitarist doesn't own a ton of guitars. What successful film composer purposefully limits the instruments in his orchestra? What successful writer purposefully limits their vocabulary? And on and on and on.

(The only exception, generally, to the above is some sort of stylistic choice)

[Kotowboy]

^ But you could argue that the best drummer in the world *needs* a gigantic kit.

Which is not the case.

Mangini *does* have a gigantic kit but he has a very unique reason for doing so.

[ReaPsTA]

^ But you could argue that the best drummer in the world *needs* a gigantic kit.

Which is not the case.

Mangini *does* have a gigantic kit but he has a very unique reason for doing so.

Arguing that any artist should do anything is kinda pointless. I'm not saying that, at least to me, every artist makes the best choices all the time, but it doesn't really matter for the most part. The only justification an artist usually needs is, "I wanted to do that."

Except for that guy with the 800 piece drum kit. That's more masturbation than art. There is a line somewhere.

[Kotowboy]

At least Mangini can talk at length as to why his kit is the way it is...

I'd love to hear Terry Bozzio explain why he has 12 bass drums

[Adami]

Adami pulled a me.  I do agree with him with his evaluation on kit sizes and how good a drummers is.

No, I meant kids. Not going to explain it though.   

[King Postwhore]

 

[SebastianPratesi]

^ But you could argue that the best drummer in the world *needs* a gigantic kit.

Which is not the case.

You are correct. He doesn't need one, and he doesn't use one:

[erwinrafael]

On one hand, the idea of being more creative with limited choices makes sense. You have to try harder to make things work, which helps you come up with more original ideas.

No. A smaller kit does not work if your drumming composition style and philosophy is orchestration, seeing drums not just as rhythmic but also as melodic instruments. In Mangini's drumming philosophy, high and low keys in a drum set are relevant. Needing more toms and cymbals is relevant also when your drumming philosophy is that the drums tie in to what everybody else in the band is doing.

If anything, I find MM's drumming philosophy more original because I can not find any other drummer who goes up and down scales and shifts from low-pitched to high-pitched rides and hi-hats and kick drums as a matter of orchestration like MM does. If you disagree, name me one other drummer who follows the same drumming orchestration style (other than Terry Bozzio).

[Mosh]

On one hand, the idea of being more creative with limited choices makes sense. You have to try harder to make things work, which helps you come up with more original ideas.

No. A smaller kit does not work if your drumming composition style and philosophy is orchestration, seeing drums not just as rhythmic but also as melodic instruments. In Mangini's drumming philosophy, high and low keys in a drum set are relevant. Needing more toms and cymbals is relevant also when your drumming philosophy is that the drums tie in to what everybody else in the band is doing.

If he can't do both then I don't see how he's any better than somebody who is only able to play on a small kit.

[erwinrafael]

On one hand, the idea of being more creative with limited choices makes sense. You have to try harder to make things work, which helps you come up with more original ideas.

No. A smaller kit does not work if your drumming composition style and philosophy is orchestration, seeing drums not just as rhythmic but also as melodic instruments. In Mangini's drumming philosophy, high and low keys in a drum set are relevant. Needing more toms and cymbals is relevant also when your drumming philosophy is that the drums tie in to what everybody else in the band is doing.

If he can't do both then I don't see how he's any better than somebody who is only able to play on a small kit.

He can do both but he needs a large kit when he goes up and down scales mirroring the melodic runs and if you highlight three different instruments at the same time with different limbs. How do you do a melodic run up a scale if you only have one piece of tom?

It's not like Mangini does not know how to drum with a small kit. He does. Look at his Annihilator, Extreme or Tribe of Judah stuff. He also used a small kit in his recent UK gig.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7nGtoYckP4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7Il5LG-r40

With smaller kits, he transfers most of his orchestration on the cymbals.

With Dream Theater, he just applies a different drumming philosophy. It's the same drumming philosophy he used when he was with Vai, because those are the types of music where he can exercise his vision on how to orchestrate music. It sometimes just gets lost in the translation because the studio recording does not capture the differences in frequencies of the cymbals. For example, this performance with Nuno shows Mangini's orchestration style:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWhqGPKfqvA

[hefdaddy42]

Yep.  Different tools for different jobs.

Jazz drummers normally have much smaller kits than someone like Mangini.  But what they are doing is not the same thing that Mangini is doing.  Which is not an indictment on the talent level or creativity level of either one.

[Kotowboy]

This is not about mangini or Jazz drummers but a thing i've started seeing drummers do now is angle the cymbals *away* from them.

I can't see how that would be beneficial in any way and would potentially be damaging to stick and cymbal

[erwinrafael]

This is how groovy Illumination Theory's drums are if you actually have a good snare and could hear the cymbals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58KFlF1SRoI

 

The chorus!

[mikeyd23]

Great video, that really shows all the detail that was lost in the final mix... Honestly listening to that, it makes me wish DT12 had a drum sound similar to SDOIT or something like that. It's a shame a lot of that great cymbal work isn't easily heard on the album.