Author Topic: Your biggest complaint about the tour  (Read 16802 times)

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Offline cramx3

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #35 on: April 26, 2016, 08:13:54 AM »
I'm not defending DT using a click, but as someone who has used a click a lot in the past, it's very possible to play a show to a click and still have lots of energy and put on a great show.

Yeah this. Click track does not equal low energy.

I thought the last tour for the DT album had plenty of energy and that show was to a click track.  I think the "boringness" of this tour has EVERYTHING to do with the theatrical presentation.  I very much enjoyed the concert, but it felt more like a theatrical show than a concert.  The ushers played too big of a role, people sitting for most of the show, the album is great but has a lot of soft songs so the pacing of the show isn't the best, no real crowd engagement from the band... I hope this is it after this string of shows announced already.  I look forward to being able to see some of TA songs in a proper rock concert setting.  The show at RCMH didn't get that rock concert feel until the very end when people stood up and starting singing along to the Hymn.

Pretending that the concert is over after Our New World, then walking off stage for 10 seconds only to return and play the rest of the album was really, really silly.

Not IMO, it worked for me given the context of the show.  I think it would have best to do a legit encore, maybe one old song because the place was salivating for one more awesome DT song.  But knowing they weren't going to, what they did do was the best option because otherwise ending the show without an encore would leave people wondering wtf

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #36 on: April 26, 2016, 08:22:42 AM »
I don't really have any complaints. I don't mind that they did the whole album. It was a necessity for the purpose of the story to do this for at least one tour. They probably won't ever play it in full again, unless they do a one-off kind of thing.

Oh, I guess if I were to really find something to complain about it would be the sound from my perspective. JP and James were really low in the mix from where I was sitting. I'm surprised because I sat in almost the same place as the last Radio City show and the sound was perfect then. I think this time around the keyboards drowned everything out.

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2016, 08:41:03 AM »
My only complaint is not getting extra material. I would have been happy with a couple extra songs after the album. I know what they were doing but its about the fans too. They bought into going to the prog Broadway style show. A couple extra tracks wouldn't have killed them. Besides that I had no problem with any other aspect of the performance. I found it amazing.
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Offline Logain Ablar

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2016, 08:47:39 AM »
Pretending that the concert is over after Our New World, then walking off stage for 10 seconds only to return and play the rest of the album was really, really silly.

Not IMO, it worked for me given the context of the show.  I think it would have best to do a legit encore, maybe one old song because the place was salivating for one more awesome DT song.  But knowing they weren't going to, what they did do was the best option because otherwise ending the show without an encore would leave people wondering wtf

This is exactly what happened at the London Palladium on the first night. I knew there wouldn't be an encore, so I knew what to expect, but at the end of the show when they walked off, there were chants for an encore and a couple of half-hearted boos when it didn't happen. Then a few puzzled faces, and people turning to each other saying "Is that it?". A lot of folks just didn't realise that was the way it was planned.

I think they started doing this improvised "encore" right after that first show.

Offline Rickharris1011

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2016, 12:26:15 PM »
First - I had an awesome time at the show and so many fantastic things. Absolutely recommend it to anyone. Onto the thread

Biggest complaint? - the ushers at the Orpheum in Boston.  Definitely. 
Second biggest (but not that big) - I think they should tour with a live violinist.  There were 2 or 3 times in the show where it was borderline cheesy having such a prominent instrument canned. 
Particularly in Hymn of 10,000 voices.

As for the energy comments - the bands energy was really strong in Boston. Man does MM hit the drums hard.
Crowd energy was what I expected - they played only new material.  No old standards to bring out to really rev up the crowd. 

Offline Chino

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2016, 12:32:47 PM »

Second biggest (but not that big) - I think they should tour with a live violinist.  There were 2 or 3 times in the show where it was borderline cheesy having such a prominent instrument canned. 
Particularly in Hymn of 10,000 voices.


They wouldn't even need to tour with one. They could just get a guest violinist from every city they're touring in. When you see the Trans Siberian Orchestra, only the band goes on tour. The orchestra is from the area. If you see them in CT, the Hartford Symphony Orchestra is on stage with the band.   

Offline pantsofeternity

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2016, 02:32:30 PM »

Second biggest (but not that big) - I think they should tour with a live violinist.  There were 2 or 3 times in the show where it was borderline cheesy having such a prominent instrument canned. 
Particularly in Hymn of 10,000 voices.


They wouldn't even need to tour with one. They could just get a guest violinist from every city they're touring in. When you see the Trans Siberian Orchestra, only the band goes on tour. The orchestra is from the area. If you see them in CT, the Hartford Symphony Orchestra is on stage with the band.   
Yeah I was a little bummed they didn't try to do this, at least with the violinist, even in NYC.
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Offline Dream Team

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2016, 06:32:44 PM »
Not really a complaint per se, but I really hope next album and tour is raw with all real instruments and vocals, no backing tracks.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #43 on: April 28, 2016, 07:09:54 AM »
Not really a complaint per se, but I really hope next album and tour is raw with all real instruments and vocals, no backing tracks.

I think a lot of people would like to see that, but somehow I get the impression they are here to stay.
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Offline JustJen

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #44 on: April 28, 2016, 07:14:56 AM »
Not really a complaint per se, but I really hope next album and tour is raw with all real instruments and vocals, no backing tracks.

I think a lot of people would like to see that, but somehow I get the impression they are here to stay.

just gut instinct making you say that, or something more?
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #45 on: April 28, 2016, 07:49:51 AM »
Personally, I think it's a combination of two factors:
1) MM has no issues at all playing all songs with click, and having a click kinda invites having backing tracks
2) (maybe more controversially) backing tracks are a good way of smoothing out rough performances. During the Boston show James was mightily struggling with the high notes, but the vocal backing track smoothed out a lot of that. I think a lot of people who proclaim "James was perfect tonight!" don't realize that 50% of the "on-ness" was due to the backing track.
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Offline JustJen

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #46 on: April 28, 2016, 08:07:16 AM »
Honest question - what's the difference between a backing tack and what Milli Vanilli did (I don't mean the fact that MV faked everything, I mean the fact they played the song exactly as released in the background)? If you listen to a backing track, what does it sound like? Is it only part of the sound, or is it just.. playing the album?
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Offline Adami

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #47 on: April 28, 2016, 08:19:20 AM »
Honest question - what's the difference between a backing tack and what Milli Vanilli did (I don't mean the fact that MV faked everything, I mean the fact they played the song exactly as released in the background)? If you listen to a backing track, what does it sound like? Is it only part of the sound, or is it just.. playing the album?

In the case of DT, it's part of the album being played in the background. It's strings or sounds that otherwise can't be played live currently. It's also lots of vocal parts. Usually co-leads or harmonies.
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #48 on: April 28, 2016, 08:19:49 AM »
Honest question - what's the difference between a backing tack and what Milli Vanilli did (I don't mean the fact that MV faked everything, I mean the fact they played the song exactly as released in the background)? If you listen to a backing track, what does it sound like? Is it only part of the sound, or is it just.. playing the album?

It depends on what the artist is playing on a backing track. MV for example was faking everything. DT is just filling in orchestra or choir sounds from the album and occasional harmony vocals, that's it. Rumborak is greatly exaggerating to say that 50% of JLB's "on-ness" was due to tracks.

Offline Logain Ablar

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2016, 08:30:23 AM »
I imagine if you listened to the backing track on its own, you'd have large periods of silence, with the various bits and pieces coming in as they do on the album tracks.

I think I'm ok with this approach as long as it doesn't go too far. Some say that playing exactly in time to the album tempo can lose part of the live vibe, where there's more ebb and flow to the tempo of the songs, as you're not playing to a strict beat.

The thing I noticed from the BTFW Blu-Ray was that the SAFM songs seemed slower to me on first listen. It realised it was just because they were playing along with the backing track to cue in the various extra elements. It was exactly the same tempo as the album, but because you are used to hearing other live versions of those songs, it sounded a bit weird at first.

The other thing is that if they are playing the songs at the same tempo every night, and recording all the shows, then it makes it easier if they ever release a "live" album to put together performances from all those recorded shows. So, taking the best takes, and getting rid of mistakes etc.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 09:39:11 AM by Logain Ablar »

Offline Stadler

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #50 on: April 28, 2016, 08:53:53 AM »
I was listening to Slash on Howard Stern yesterday, and Howard played a couple of the classic G'n'R songs to get Slash's reaction, and he played "Paradise City", and Slash's comment was "Fuck! That is so SLOW!"   Howard asked him, and Slash said "well, we play that a lot, and because of the adrenaline, we play it a lot faster live".  Howard then asked him if he thought the studio version was thus too slow, and Slash said "No, it was just right for record, but live is a different animal".   

For what it's worth.

I get the idea of a click, but there's something to be said for the dynamic of a live recording, and the "breathing" of a song live.  That was - in my humble, not-as-informed-as-I-should-be-on-this opinion - a big part of the magic of Led Zeppelin.  Would Stairway be the song it is now if Bonham was in perfect meter from start to finish on the song? 

Offline JustJen

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #51 on: April 28, 2016, 09:23:34 AM »
thanks everyone, that helps me understand it more. I saw John Wesley playing live alone and he had all kinds of sounds triggered by his foot pedals because he couldn't DO his songs alone. It didn't bug me. I'd have to hear DT on this tour to know if this would bug me but I missed my chance already. Hoping for a second leg. DIdn't realize until after I opted out of this leg that I've never missed a DT tour since I became a fan, until now.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #52 on: April 28, 2016, 10:12:26 AM »
None of the backing tracks bugged me this tour, but I certainly am a fan of sort of what Stadler and Slash were saying, let the live music flow naturally.  I think it's great when a band can sort of play off the crowd and if the crowd is going nuts then the tempo gets a little faster.

Offline Mebert78

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #53 on: April 28, 2016, 10:41:27 AM »
I caught the Upper Darby show last weekend and I found myself enjoying parts of it, but it left me wanting a little more overall.  First, the separated screens is not so much my thing.  I find myself trying to piece together the graphics through the gaps between the screens, especially when they're showing character's faces.  Other parts, like when they displayed trees or a moon on the screens, I felt like it worked better.  But, to me, one giant screen like the last tour would've been the way to go.  Since this was a musical, I also felt like physical props would've been a nice touch.  Like, they could've physically transformed the stage into Heaven's Cove or other settings and JLB could've walked around and atop the props as he delivered his lines in theatrical fashion -- like an actual musical.   

Also, I found the story hard to follow live.  It's been a couple months since I'd listened to The Astonishing because I've been hooked on the new Redemption album, so I didn't really recall the intricacies of the storyline.  That left me relying on JLB's lyrics and the animations to refresh my memory, but unfortunately I found JLB hard to understand in many cases and the animations did not further the story as much as I had hoped.  If I were someone who had never heard the album, I probably would've been totally lost.

Lastly, the band was spot on but JLB did not really deliver his vocals with a passion like was needed for this type of performance, in my opinion.  I felt like he was strolling around the stage and acting very casual, but since this is a musical I was hoping for a little more acting and fire in his movements and delivery.  Instead, he performed like it was a regular concert with a t-shirt and ripped jeans. 

I know this sounds critical, but it's only because I expect the best from DT.  I'm still proud of their effort and ambition.  Long live, DT. :)
« Last Edit: April 28, 2016, 02:43:34 PM by Mebert78 »
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Offline rumborak

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #54 on: April 28, 2016, 11:03:06 AM »
Also, I found the story hard to follow live.

This part I found particularly striking. TA was, I guess, supposed to be a theater experience. But, as you say, the screens and animation did not help understanding, and there were no programs either that would have explained the story like they do in actual operas. So, the performance was kinda a regular rock concert, with a few theatric elements thrown in.
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #55 on: April 28, 2016, 11:16:07 AM »
Eh, Isn't all that solved by just reading the story on the website? I did that once right when the album came out, and I can follow it fine...

I do agree that printing the story from the site and including it in the tour programs would be a good idea though.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #56 on: April 28, 2016, 12:57:51 PM »
Also, I found the story hard to follow live.

This part I found particularly striking. TA was, I guess, supposed to be a theater experience. But, as you say, the screens and animation did not help understanding, and there were no programs either that would have explained the story like they do in actual operas. So, the performance was kinda a regular rock concert, with a few theatric elements thrown in.

I don't have many big complaints - I understood and accepted what it was intended to be going in - but if I was to put anything into words, it would be closest to this:   It's sort of a hybrid between a rock show and a theater show, but it sort of has the WORST (not the BEST) of both.    I would have preferred a little more of the "best" of both; put out a libretto (it could be printed paper like at a play); connect the names to the faces; connect the names/faces to the places on the map; provide a little more structure to allow the story to be pieced together in real time. 

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #57 on: April 28, 2016, 01:18:48 PM »
I think that would have been great. I was surprised that they didn't give out something like that, especially considering they wanted the shows played at theater type venues.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #58 on: April 28, 2016, 03:05:12 PM »
Eh, Isn't all that solved by just reading the story on the website? I did that once right when the album came out, and I can follow it fine...

I do agree that printing the story from the site and including it in the tour programs would be a good idea though.

My brother went to see them in Germany, and there people got a program. No idea why they stopped handing them out.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #59 on: April 28, 2016, 03:12:06 PM »
Check the Pic thread or the camera thread for my post, I am holding the program and saved mine (although it got a bit beat up that evening). 

The program had all the track lists and characters, but referenced the website for the story.  So the program alone still would not help understand the story but maybe help a little. (and given the camera rule, there is no way you'd be able to pull out your phone to try and follow the story during the show)

I actually had thought when they announced it all that they video to go along with the performance would be much more like a cartoon to show what's going on in the story, but the reality is that it only did that on a few occasions. Those spots were probably my favorite of the stage show.

So basically, if you had not read the lyrics or the website before the show, but only followed the performance and video on the screen.... you'd likely have no idea what's going on.  I think that is a legit complaint and as much as I enjoyed the show, I do think Stadler had a point in that they really ended up getting the worst of both the concert and theater worlds with this show. 

Offline ResultsMayVary

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #60 on: April 28, 2016, 03:35:50 PM »
Eh, Isn't all that solved by just reading the story on the website? I did that once right when the album came out, and I can follow it fine...

I do agree that printing the story from the site and including it in the tour programs would be a good idea though.

My brother went to see them in Germany, and there people got a program. No idea why they stopped handing them out.
DT was selling tour programs for $20 last night in Cincinnati. I didn't buy one, but I wonder if it's the same program.
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Offline cramx3

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #61 on: April 28, 2016, 03:37:14 PM »
Eh, Isn't all that solved by just reading the story on the website? I did that once right when the album came out, and I can follow it fine...

I do agree that printing the story from the site and including it in the tour programs would be a good idea though.

My brother went to see them in Germany, and there people got a program. No idea why they stopped handing them out.
DT was selling tour programs for $20 last night in Cincinnati. I didn't buy one, but I wonder if it's the same program.

For 20 bucks he must have gotten something different as my program was free, handed out when you entered the venue.

Offline SwedishGoose

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #62 on: April 28, 2016, 03:48:48 PM »
In Stockholm there were free pamphlet type programs that gave a bit of a background and the offical programs sold in the merch stand that were high quality with one side ravenskill and one side empire. You have to turn it around to get the other view.
Some really nice photos in there too...


Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #63 on: April 28, 2016, 03:51:28 PM »
Eh, Isn't all that solved by just reading the story on the website? I did that once right when the album came out, and I can follow it fine...

I do agree that printing the story from the site and including it in the tour programs would be a good idea though.

My brother went to see them in Germany, and there people got a program. No idea why they stopped handing them out.
DT was selling tour programs for $20 last night in Cincinnati. I didn't buy one, but I wonder if it's the same program.

For 20 bucks he must have gotten something different as my program was free, handed out when you entered the venue.

Oh, that's right. We did get something. I forgot about that. Now, where did I put it...

Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #64 on: April 29, 2016, 08:16:28 AM »
Yea, like others have said, there was a free program but it wouldn't have given you too much if you had no clue about the story. I don't know if they were selling a more detailed program at the merch stand or not but the free one I got just had track listings and brief character descriptions.

What I meant was that it would have been cool to print up the whole track by track narrative from the website and have that printed in the program they handed out for free. I realize the production cost to make that would have been more but it would have been cool.

Offline cramx3

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #65 on: April 29, 2016, 08:22:18 AM »
Yea, like others have said, there was a free program but it wouldn't have given you too much if you had no clue about the story. I don't know if they were selling a more detailed program at the merch stand or not but the free one I got just had track listings and brief character descriptions.

What I meant was that it would have been cool to print up the whole track by track narrative from the website and have that printed in the program they handed out for free. I realize the production cost to make that would have been more but it would have been cool.

The write up on the website is like a short novel, would be too much and honestly it's a lot to read at the concert so I'm not sure there is a good way to do this practically other than have the video's be a bit more story driven than a mix of that with random animations.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #66 on: April 29, 2016, 08:24:11 AM »
I don't recall one of those at the Wallingford, CT show....


Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #67 on: April 29, 2016, 08:48:31 AM »
Yea, like others have said, there was a free program but it wouldn't have given you too much if you had no clue about the story. I don't know if they were selling a more detailed program at the merch stand or not but the free one I got just had track listings and brief character descriptions.

What I meant was that it would have been cool to print up the whole track by track narrative from the website and have that printed in the program they handed out for free. I realize the production cost to make that would have been more but it would have been cool.

The write up on the website is like a short novel, would be too much and honestly it's a lot to read at the concert so I'm not sure there is a good way to do this practically other than have the video's be a bit more story driven than a mix of that with random animations.

Oh I agree that the ideal way to better communicate the storyline is through the visuals on stage, I'm just not sure DTs production budget could handle that. That seems to me to be a bigger undertaking than the current visuals.

Offline rumborak

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #68 on: April 29, 2016, 09:32:53 AM »
I don't recall one of those at the Wallingford, CT show....

Definitely no such thing in Boston.

Oh I agree that the ideal way to better communicate the storyline is through the visuals on stage, I'm just not sure DTs production budget could handle that. That seems to me to be a bigger undertaking than the current visuals.

I don't get why a much smaller artist like Steven Wilson can then pull off a humongous screen on his concerts, with stunning, meaningful videos running on them.

I have to say it, but this is due to DT not caring more, not because they have no budget.
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Offline mikeyd23

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Re: Your biggest complaint about the tour
« Reply #69 on: April 29, 2016, 09:43:30 AM »
I don't recall one of those at the Wallingford, CT show....

Definitely no such thing in Boston.

Oh I agree that the ideal way to better communicate the storyline is through the visuals on stage, I'm just not sure DTs production budget could handle that. That seems to me to be a bigger undertaking than the current visuals.

I don't get why a much smaller artist like Steven Wilson can then pull off a humongous screen on his concerts, with stunning, meaningful videos running on them.

I have to say it, but this is due to DT not caring more, not because they have no budget.

I've never seen Steven's live show, what exactly is so great about his visuals? I've seen the animated music video things he has, is it more like that?