Author Topic: Transgender people and bathrooms  (Read 7504 times)

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Offline Stadler

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #105 on: May 06, 2016, 10:52:47 AM »
It was my understanding that it was a Charlotte City ordnance that sought to codify - make official - that which was already being done, and the blowback was that on a State level, some conservatives responded with a heavy hand. 

I've long said that sometimes it's better to lose the battle and win the war, but it seems like the LGBT (more than any other special interest besides the NRA) seems to view each battle as "must have". 

I am, nominally, a conservative, but I believe that each person should own their body.  I don't oppose gay marriage, I am pro-choice, etc., but it seems that even when we (liberal and conservative) agree, we don't.  To me, it's gone past the notion of "do what thou will, just don't violate my personal space"; more and more it seems like "the individual right" extends to "having me agree and accept it as well", and I think that's going too far.   We have to TOLERATE.  We don't have to ACCEPT and AGREE. 

Offline bosk1

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #106 on: May 06, 2016, 10:55:30 AM »
...more and more it seems like "the individual right" extends to "having me agree and accept it as well", and I think that's going too far.   We have to TOLERATE.  We don't have to ACCEPT and AGREE. 

Agreed.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #107 on: May 06, 2016, 11:16:30 AM »
I would say that "I don't understand that" is not sufficient reason to legislate against anything.
Seems to be a lot of that going around nowadays. Aren't you a cigar smoker?  :lol
Yes, and I am NOT happy that premium cigars were included in the new proposed regulations.

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Offline El Barto

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #108 on: May 06, 2016, 11:32:37 AM »
but it seems that even when we (liberal and conservative) agree, we don't.
Well that's just a damn fine way to put it. I know exactly how you feel. Nothing's worse than a knuckleheaded ally.

I would say that "I don't understand that" is not sufficient reason to legislate against anything.
Seems to be a lot of that going around nowadays. Aren't you a cigar smoker?  :lol
Yes, and I am NOT happy that premium cigars were included in the new proposed regulations.
No doubt. I don't even vape (at least insofar as the scope of this decision) and I'm pretty pissed off about it. Just the stupidity of it offends me personally.
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Offline Ben_Jamin

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #110 on: May 08, 2016, 03:14:10 PM »
Here's a situation. If you really had to take a deuce and the only option is to use the ladies restroom, would you use it in there or crap your pants? 
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Offline Chino

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #111 on: May 09, 2016, 06:27:22 AM »
Here's a situation. If you really had to take a deuce and the only option is to use the ladies restroom, would you use it in there or crap your pants?

I've done that on at least two occasions (used the ladies' room, not crapped my pants). One time was accidental, the other time I just didn't give a damn.

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #112 on: May 09, 2016, 08:49:49 AM »
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/a-scalia-decision-sets-the-precedent-for-why-hb2-is-illegal/481569/
Yep.  Eventually, this is what will cause our ridiculous law to be overturned. 

I wish our idiot Governor and Legislature would do it voluntarily and stop the bleeding, without having to get sued over it and potentially losing hundreds of millions of dollars in Federal education funds.

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Offline Stadler

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #113 on: May 09, 2016, 09:01:37 AM »
Here's a situation. If you really had to take a deuce and the only option is to use the ladies restroom, would you use it in there or crap your pants?

I've done that on at least two occasions (used the ladies' room, not crapped my pants). One time was accidental, the other time I just didn't give a damn.

More times than I can count (used the ladies room, not crapped my pants). 

Offline Chino

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #114 on: May 09, 2016, 09:03:18 AM »
Here's a situation. If you really had to take a deuce and the only option is to use the ladies restroom, would you use it in there or crap your pants?

I've done that on at least two occasions (used the ladies' room, not crapped my pants). One time was accidental, the other time I just didn't give a damn.

More times than I can count (used the ladies room, not crapped my pants).

We should be in jail.

Offline El Barto

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #115 on: May 09, 2016, 09:04:10 AM »
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/a-scalia-decision-sets-the-precedent-for-why-hb2-is-illegal/481569/
Yep.  Eventually, this is what will cause our ridiculous law to be overturned. 

I wish our idiot Governor and Legislature would do it voluntarily and stop the bleeding, without having to get sued over it and potentially losing hundreds of millions of dollars in Federal education funds.

I only skimmed the article, but I don't think it actually qualifies as discrimination. They're offered the same services as everybody else and not being denied anything.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #116 on: May 09, 2016, 10:40:10 AM »
We'll see.

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Offline vtgrad

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #117 on: May 09, 2016, 11:27:52 AM »
Here's a situation. If you really had to take a deuce and the only option is to use the ladies restroom, would you use it in there or crap your pants?

I've done that on at least two occasions (used the ladies' room, not crapped my pants). One time was accidental, the other time I just didn't give a damn.

More times than I can count (used the ladies room, not crapped my pants).

We should be in jail.

Many, many times (again, using the ladies' facilities; though I'm sure I crapped the pants plenty as a very young child, probably while waiting for Mom to get me into the ladies' room).  I even once apologized to a lady that was already in the restroom; she said and I quote "that's OK, you gotta do what you gotta do, just try and get out of here before anybody sees you".
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #118 on: May 09, 2016, 11:30:36 AM »
Here's a situation. If you really had to take a deuce and the only option is to use the ladies restroom, would you use it in there or crap your pants?

I've done that on at least two occasions (used the ladies' room, not crapped my pants). One time was accidental, the other time I just didn't give a damn.

More times than I can count (used the ladies room, not crapped my pants).

We should be in jail.

Many, many times (again, using the ladies' facilities; though I'm sure I crapped the pants plenty as a very young child, probably while waiting for Mom to get me into the ladies' room).  I even once apologized to a lady that was already in the restroom; she said and I quote "that's OK, you gotta do what you gotta do, just try and get out of here before anybody sees you".

As a general matter, that's usually the response I would get when I did that.

Offline KevShmev

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #119 on: May 15, 2016, 08:07:18 AM »
Here's a situation. If you really had to take a deuce and the only option is to use the ladies restroom, would you use it in there or crap your pants?

I've done that on at least two occasions (used the ladies' room, not crapped my pants). One time was accidental, the other time I just didn't give a damn.

More times than I can count (used the ladies room, not crapped my pants).

We should be in jail.

Given the climate nowadays, you can just claim that you identify yourself as a woman and they'll be too scared to even question it, for fear of the backlash from progressives, many of whom are so myopic that they fail to grasp reality or foresee the unintended consequences.

Offline jammindude

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #120 on: May 15, 2016, 02:15:21 PM »
There's only one issue that I can see being a real problem here.  (I've spoken of this before, but I can't remember if it was on this forum or not)

I don't know about other states, but in the state of Washington, the Department of Labor and Industries requires a certain amount of Sani-Cans on jobsites.   If there are women on the job site, the construction company is *required* to provide them with their own separate Sani-Can with a padlock so that only women can access that Sani-Can.      Personally, I'm jealous because male construction workers are among the most disgusting humans on the planet at using the bathroom, and most male oriented Sani-Cans are actually worse (you heard me....WORSE) than truck stop bathrooms.     I get why the women want their own padlocked Sani-Cans...but are they going to be able to keep that law in place with everything going "uni-sex"?
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Offline Stadler

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #121 on: May 16, 2016, 12:40:00 PM »
There's only one issue that I can see being a real problem here.  (I've spoken of this before, but I can't remember if it was on this forum or not)

I don't know about other states, but in the state of Washington, the Department of Labor and Industries requires a certain amount of Sani-Cans on jobsites.   If there are women on the job site, the construction company is *required* to provide them with their own separate Sani-Can with a padlock so that only women can access that Sani-Can.      Personally, I'm jealous because male construction workers are among the most disgusting humans on the planet at using the bathroom, and most male oriented Sani-Cans are actually worse (you heard me....WORSE) than truck stop bathrooms.     I get why the women want their own padlocked Sani-Cans...but are they going to be able to keep that law in place with everything going "uni-sex"?

I won't use Sani-cans on a job site.  I've seen too many times where someone goes in and five guys come running over and knock it sideways.  Or drive a work truck up to the front door essentially sticking the person insight until the truck has to move. 


Offline jammindude

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #122 on: May 16, 2016, 02:25:20 PM »
When you work on the job site, there are literally no other options.

 And trust me, I've had to use some really disgusting Sani cans. The problem is that even if the letter of the law is not sufficient for that particular job site, it can take forever to get an inspector out to look at the problem because technically they are within the letter of the law. They provide the minimum necessary by law
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Offline Chino

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #123 on: May 17, 2016, 08:08:34 AM »

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #124 on: May 17, 2016, 08:14:25 AM »
I hate people sometimes.  What would make someone say something like that and think it's ok?  Regardless of your beliefs, it's just flat out wrong to treat people like that.

Offline Chino

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #125 on: May 17, 2016, 08:18:40 AM »
I hate people sometimes.  What would make someone say something like that and think it's ok? Regardless of your beliefs, it's just flat out wrong to treat people like that.

You're a miserable human being who feels as though they are better than everyone else, and that the first amendment and/or your religious text of choice grants you the right to be a piece of shit to others not like you.

Offline bosk1

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #126 on: May 17, 2016, 08:26:23 AM »
I hate people sometimes.  What would make someone say something like that and think it's ok?  Regardless of your beliefs, it's just flat out wrong to treat people like that.

I completely agree with you on the bolded part.  But I'm also not ready to completely bash the woman who said it either, not having been there and not knowing the circumstances.  Yes, what she said was wrong and incredibly insensitive and offensive.  But it would seem slightly less offensive if, for instance, she is not normally a mean person and is more understanding, but, let's say, just came from the doctor where she got news that she has cancer, had two young kids fighting and crying in the back seat all the way to Walmart, and heard some news report about some perv being arrested for ogling kids in a public bathroom.  Still wrong, but I'm just saying, we don't know her circumstances, and I am more willing to cut someone some slack if they are having a bad day and just snapped vs. say, a card carrying member of the Westborough Baptists.
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Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #127 on: May 17, 2016, 10:35:54 AM »
Yes, the WB crowd is extended no slack.  Ever.

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Offline Stadler

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #128 on: May 17, 2016, 11:07:08 AM »
I don't know.  This isn't going to make me look too good, but so be it...

I'm just tired of all this.  I'm tired of the laws, I'm tired of people thinking they can drive behavior in this fashion, I'm tired of people thinking they can shame someone into thinking like they do, I'm tired of the pseudo-angry video blog rants, I'm tired of the knee-jerk PC responses to said videos, I'm tired of the knee-jerk blame towards "all Republicans"...

Tend your own garden.  Take your crap, shit, piss, spit whatever, wash your hands and go back to shopping, for fuck's sake. 


By the way, pleased to see (not that this is enough to dispel the myths, either on the subject or on Fox News itself):
http://www.vox.com/2016/5/16/11678218/megyn-kelly-dan-patrick-transgender-bathrooms


Offline bosk1

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #129 on: May 17, 2016, 11:17:42 AM »
I don't know.  This isn't going to make me look too good, but so be it...

I'm just tired of all this.  I'm tired of the laws, I'm tired of people thinking they can drive behavior in this fashion, I'm tired of people thinking they can shame someone into thinking like they do, I'm tired of the pseudo-angry video blog rants, I'm tired of the knee-jerk PC responses to said videos, I'm tired of the knee-jerk blame towards "all Republicans"...

Tend your own garden.  Take your crap, shit, piss, spit whatever, wash your hands and go back to shopping, for fuck's sake. 

BUT CIVIL RIGHTS!  DOWN WITH SEPARATE BUT EQUAL!  ...and stuff
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Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #130 on: May 17, 2016, 12:49:31 PM »
I don't know.  This isn't going to make me look too good, but so be it...

I'm just tired of all this.  I'm tired of the laws, I'm tired of people thinking they can drive behavior in this fashion, I'm tired of people thinking they can shame someone into thinking like they do, I'm tired of the pseudo-angry video blog rants, I'm tired of the knee-jerk PC responses to said videos, I'm tired of the knee-jerk blame towards "all Republicans"...

Tend your own garden.  Take your crap, shit, piss, spit whatever, wash your hands and go back to shopping, for fuck's sake. 


I concur, but that's all I'll say. After thinking this through, my opinion is very harsh and I don't care.

Offline Stadler

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #131 on: May 17, 2016, 12:51:57 PM »
I kind of feel like the biggest issue is really the "washing hands" part.  I can image how often THAT gets missed, not whether the person next to you has a penis or vaginer. 

Offline hefdaddy42

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #132 on: May 17, 2016, 01:03:46 PM »
Tend your own garden. 
Kind of hard to tend your own garden when the Republican legislature won't let you in the fucking garden to begin with.

And you can be against any anti-Republican sentiment you want, but this wasn't even that big an issue until Republican legislatures started passing laws against it.  Another non-problem that they felt the need to solve, kind of like with voter ID laws.  They seem to feel the need to make the world safe for conservative white Christians.  And rage against that too, if you want, but that is the bulk of the makeup of these legislatures, as well as the makeup of the gerrymandered districts that vote them in.

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Offline cramx3

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #133 on: May 17, 2016, 01:16:39 PM »
So was this law in NC voted in by the people or was it just passed through legislation?

Offline Chino

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #134 on: May 17, 2016, 01:18:54 PM »
Tend your own garden. 
Kind of hard to tend your own garden when the Republican legislature won't let you in the fucking garden to begin with.

And you can be against any anti-Republican sentiment you want, but this wasn't even that big an issue until Republican legislatures started passing laws against it.  Another non-problem that they felt the need to solve, kind of like with voter ID laws.  They seem to feel the need to make the world safe for conservative white Christians.  And rage against that too, if you want, but that is the bulk of the makeup of these legislatures, as well as the makeup of the gerrymandered districts that vote them in.

It's almost like the gay marriage war is finally coming to an end (lost), and they need a new cause that they can all rally behind.

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #135 on: May 17, 2016, 01:23:26 PM »
I kind of feel like the biggest issue is really the "washing hands" part.  I can image how often THAT gets missed, not whether the person next to you has a penis or vaginer.

I'm kind of concerned that my daughter could be in the bathroom with someone that has a dick. Sorry, that's just not right.

Offline Chino

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #136 on: May 17, 2016, 01:28:53 PM »
I kind of feel like the biggest issue is really the "washing hands" part.  I can image how often THAT gets missed, not whether the person next to you has a penis or vaginer.

I'm kind of concerned that my daughter could be in the bathroom with someone that has a dick. Sorry, that's just not right.

If she's in one stall, and I'm in a different one, what's the harm? I'm not trying to be a dick, but I'm failing to see an issue. What's 'not right' about it? It's two human beings using their organs to rid themselves of waste. We all do it and it's something that's unavoidable and not sexual in any way. I mean, if she was sitting on the toilet and then I decided to try and piss in the same one while she's sitting, yeah, that'd be pretty fucked up. But if we're in completely separate stalls, I just don't see what the big deal is. I don't see it as being any different than unisex changing rooms in a department store. 

Offline Prog Snob

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #137 on: May 17, 2016, 01:39:53 PM »
I kind of feel like the biggest issue is really the "washing hands" part.  I can image how often THAT gets missed, not whether the person next to you has a penis or vaginer.

I'm kind of concerned that my daughter could be in the bathroom with someone that has a dick. Sorry, that's just not right.

If she's in one stall, and I'm in a different one, what's the harm? I'm not trying to be a dick, but I'm failing to see an issue. What's 'not right' about it? It's two human beings using their organs to rid themselves of waste. We all do it and it's something that's unavoidable and not sexual in any way. I mean, if she was sitting on the toilet and then I decided to try and piss in the same one while she's sitting, yeah, that'd be pretty fucked up. But if we're in completely separate stalls, I just don't see what the big deal is. I don't see it as being any different than unisex changing rooms in a department store.

I was trying to be civil about this and not come off as a dick. Truthfully, I think the whole thing is unnatural to begin with. The idea of wanting to change sexes unsettles me. That doesn't mean I would ever be rude to someone who did it, but to me, it's unnatural. They account for a percentage of a percentage of a small percentage so why are we changing the rules for them? Men's room for the men. Ladies room for the ladies. That's it. You're not going to convince me to be alright with my daughter using a toilet in one stall and a guy in the stall next to her. I don't even know how to respond to that without being harsh about it. Let's not blur these lines in society. There shouldn't be any gray area when it comes to gender yet these people have created some and I think it's unnatural.

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #138 on: May 17, 2016, 02:08:57 PM »
So was this law in NC voted in by the people or was it just passed through legislation?

From what I've read, the city council in a big city decided on the opposite - saying that transgender people could freely use the bathroom of their choice - and the state legislature didn't like that, so they convened in emergency session and drafted and passed a bill within a day that included the bathroom provision, made it illegal for any city to pass laws that would protect transgender people from discrimination (such as making it illegal for employers to fire people for being transgender) and that also prohibited any city from raising the minimum wage higher than the state average (because apparently those things have something to do with each other?).
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Offline bosk1

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Re: Transgender people and bathrooms
« Reply #139 on: May 17, 2016, 02:35:40 PM »
...bathroom provision...and that also prohibited any city from raising the minimum wage higher than the state average (because apparently those things have something to do with each other?).

Welcome to legislation.  :lol  This happens literally ALL.  THE.  TIME.  At both the state and federal level.  You should try reading ACA sometime.  There are pages upon pages of things in that law that have nothing whatsoever to do with healthcare. 
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